UK PM May heads to Berlin to face tough German line on Brexit

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UK PM May heads to Berlin to face tough German line on Brexit

By Andrew MacAskill and Thomas Escritt

 

Britain's Prime Minister, Theresa May, speaks outside Stormont House, in Belfast, Northern Ireland February 12, 2018. REUTERS/Clodagh Kilcoyne

 

LONDON/BERLIN (Reuters) - British Prime Minister Theresa May travels to Berlin on Friday to meet German leader Angela Merkel, hoping to overcome near-deadlock in her attempts to negotiate a Brexit deal with the European Union.

 

German officials say they are frustrated with Britain's lack of clarity about what it wants after the split, including what new customs regime it wants and how closely it will stay aligned to the EU's rules for goods and services.

 

Earlier this week, Germany called on Britain to offer more "concrete" plans.

 

While Britain's politicians are consumed by Brexit, Germany is more preoccupied by the struggle to form the new government. Merkel is struggling to coax the Social Democrats to join her conservatives in a renewed "grand coalition".

 

German officials have said there is no reason to expect Berlin to change its stance on Brexit when a new coalition government is finally formed.

 

The future of the euro zone and the governance reforms proposed by French President Emmanuel Macron are seen as more pressing items for Germany than Brexit. May will be the third European prime minister Merkel receives on Friday.

 

German officials believe that a failure to reach a deal with London before Britain's formal departure from the EU in March 2019 will have far more serious consequences for Britain than for the rest of the bloc.

 

Meanwhile, May's Conservative government remains split over what sort of relationship Britain should have with the EU.

 

Eurosceptics in her party, such as her foreign minister Boris Johnson, are putting pressure on May to move Britain away from EU rules. Others, including finance minister Philip Hammond, favour as little disruption as possible.

 

May is under growing pressure to agree a transition deal with the EU by the end of next month to reassure businesses worried that Britain could leave the bloc without a deal next year.

 

After Berlin, May will travel to a security conference in Munich on Saturday where she will give a speech on future security cooperation between Britain and the EU.

 

The British government, which has the largest defence budget among EU countries, hopes that offering to keep some of its security arrangements with the bloc will help it win concessions on future trading relations.

 

A Downing Street source said May would discuss security issues with Merkel on Friday.

 

(Additional reporting by Andreas Rinke; editing by Andrew Roche)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2018-02-16

[terryw]

Why should we waste money defending our so-called friends when all of them, with the exception of a couple of East European countries, fail to meet the NATO target of 2% of GDP spent on defence.

 

May is in dreamland if she expects the Germans to give us a reasonable deal.

Edited February 16, 2018 by terryw

[mfd101]

23 minutes ago, terryw said:

Why should we waste money defending our so-called friends

Um, because their defence is our first line of defence ... perhaps?

[sawadee1947]

1 hour ago, terryw said:

Why should we waste money defending our so-called friends when all of them, with the exception of a couple of East European countries, fail to meet the NATO target of 2% of GDP spent on defence.

 

May is in dreamland if she expects the Germans to give us a reasonable deal.

May is in dreamland if she expects the Germans to give us a reasonable deal.

Edited 58 minutes ago by terryw

 

Quote

Sorry but here is a mistake! It's not Germany to decide but ALL EU members with One vote. 

[nontabury]

1 hour ago, mfd101 said:

Um, because their defence is our first line of defence ... perhaps?

Well I don’t think that Russia is threatening the U.K.

Yet I do know that the E.U bureaucrats in Brussels are.

Perhaps  now is the time for the U.K to leave NATO. Let the E.U defend themselves, and in so doing, save the U.K lots of money. Then that money could go towards the 40 billion that the U.K is expected to pay the E.U. after Brexit is finalized.

Edited February 16, 2018 by nontabury

[nontabury]

18 minutes ago, sawadee1947 said:

May is in dreamland if she expects the Germans to give us a reasonable deal.

Edited 58 minutes ago by terryw

 

Quote

Sorry but here is a mistake! It's not Germany to decide but ALL EU members with One vote. 

I think your in dreamland if you think that all E.U.countries have the same clout.

 

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, terryw said:

Why should we waste money defending our so-called friends when all of them, with the exception of a couple of East European countries, fail to meet the NATO target of 2% of GDP spent on defence.

 

May is in dreamland if she expects the Germans to give us a reasonable deal.

Why 2% of GDP? What are we defending against? The Russians? You really want Berlin to start buying 100B Euro of Leopard tanks a year? Let's think about this. It is our decision to have a blue water fleet and a nuclear deterrent. How much do we actually contribute to European defence in reality?

[dunroaming]

2 hours ago, terryw said:

Why should we waste money defending our so-called friends when all of them, with the exception of a couple of East European countries, fail to meet the NATO target of 2% of GDP spent on defence.

 

May is in dreamland if she expects the Germans to give us a reasonable deal.

I think the Brexiteers are in dreamland with a lot of their ideas of how Brexit is going to end up.  Any reasonable deal will depend on how closely aligned we remain with the EU and the 27 countries of the EU will vote on that basis.

[i claudius]

Germany has just been informed by Brussels that when we leave they have to stump up 3 billion a year extra. The voters will love that

Sent from my [device_name] using http://Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[dunroaming]

28 minutes ago, i claudius said:

Germany has just been informed by Brussels that when we leave they have to stump up 3 billion a year extra. The voters will love that

Sent from my [device_name] using http://Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Even more reason for them to make it hard on the UK then.  Easy to see why they will fight tooth and nail to make us regret our decision to leave.  Still, no doubt the Brexiteers will see this as some weird kind of justification for going.

[Air Smiles]

May is out of her depth going up against Merkel + no leverage + bringing nothing to the table.

[dunroaming]

11 minutes ago, Air Smiles said:

May is out of her depth going up against Merkel + no leverage + bringing nothing to the table.

 

11 minutes ago, Air Smiles said:

May is out of her depth going up against Merkel + no leverage + bringing nothing to the table.

I fear May is out of her depth anyway.  Everyone is frustrated by her lack of direction with anything to do with Brexit.  Fellow MP's are screaming for some clue as to what she is trying to achieve and businesses are pulling their hair out over her inability to show any direction whatsoever.  Add to that the EU still waiting for her proposals and it is clear to all that she is incapable of pushing brexit forward at all.

 

All we hear is what she is "hoping for".  Well we are all hoping for something!

[Air Smiles]

Every time Merkel asks her what kind of Brexit deal she wants, May says 'make me an offer'.  Plainly she has no solid plan ergo no direction.

 

'Make me an offer' is the kind of thing you say when approached to sell when you don't really want to sell, ...not when actively leaving the EU under your own steam.

 

The question is who will replace her from the Tory cabinet? ..the options are 'worse', 'much worse' and 'circus clown'.

[dunroaming]

13 minutes ago, Air Smiles said:

Every time Merkel asks her what kind of Brexit deal she wants, May says 'make me an offer'.  Plainly she has no solid plan ergo no direction.

 

'Make me an offer' is the kind of thing you say when approached to sell when you don't really want to sell, ...not when actively leaving the EU under your own steam.

 

The question is who will replace her from the Tory cabinet? ..the options are 'worse', 'much worse' and 'circus clown'.

Totally agree.  May has always been between a rock and a hard place.  A perfect example of a poisoned chalice that nobody else wanted to take on.

[Grouse]

3 hours ago, i claudius said:

Germany has just been informed by Brussels that when we leave they have to stump up 3 billion a year extra. The voters will love that

Sent from my [device_name] using http://Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Pfeffernusser

Edited February 16, 2018 by Grouse

[evadgib]

Nato-related links released today:

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-steps-up-commitment-to-a-modernised-nato

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/mod-submits-final-typhoon-proposal-to-belgium

 

& for good measure I'll throw these in too:

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/update-air-strikes-against-daesh

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/firing-of-50000th-simulated-round-from-turret-trainer-signals-savings-of-125m

 

Punching above our weight; as always 

 

 

[ResandePohm]

17 hours ago, terryw said:

Why should we waste money defending our so-called friends when all of them, with the exception of a couple of East European countries, fail to meet the NATO target of 2% of GDP spent on defence.

 

May is in dreamland if she expects the Germans to give us a reasonable deal.

Your post is very misleading. I know of no country that is breaking the 2% rule as this does not come into effect for several years and btw Britain is also currently not investing 2% GDP on defense. Secondly what has NATO got to do with anything. NATO is not there to defend "our so-called freinds" but to defend ourselves with the assistance of other member countries.

You need to get real.

[sawadee1947]

19 hours ago, nontabury said:

I think your in dreamland if you think that all E.U.countries have the same clout.

 

Wait and see what will happen to your empire next. A forlorn lost unimportant little island, hahaha

[roobaa01]

britain should kick merkel right away in the face and bump as germany is to fear losing its second largest export market with 9 %.

 

wbr

roobaa01

[dick dasterdly]

56 minutes ago, roobaa01 said:

britain should kick merkel right away in the face and bump as germany is to fear losing its second largest export market with 9 %.

 

wbr

roobaa01

Sadly, I'm inclined to agree.

 

No payment to the EU as it's obvious that 'special' terms are unlikely to be forthcoming unless the brit.govt. becomes far more bad tempered in it's 'approach' to negotiations, in the same vein as the EU.

[Air Smiles]

1 hour ago, roobaa01 said:

britain should kick merkel right away in the face and bump as germany is to fear losing its second largest export market with 9 %.

 

wbr

roobaa01

 

I don't see how Germany will lose anything, even a hard 'no deal' Brexit will just mean the UK either paying more for German cars or grey imports.

 

As I said before, the UK has zero leverage in the Brexit negotiations, hence the complete lack of progress on a trade deal as the cliff edge nears.

Edited February 17, 2018 by Air Smiles

[dick dasterdly]

"Zero leverage"?  The UK should obviously leave immediately.

 

It's not that hard to see that both the EU and the UK have an interest in ensuring future trade.

[Air Smiles]

7 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

It's not that hard to see that both the EU and the UK have an interest in ensuring future trade.

 

I think you are being short sighted and suffering delusions of grandeur regarding the UK's position in the world.

 

The EU have a bigger interest in ensuring the future of the EU

 

I could be wrong, so lets start by you bullet pointing the progress in the trade talks so far?

[dick dasterdly]

16 minutes ago, Air Smiles said:

 

I think you are being short sighted and suffering delusions of grandeur regarding the UK's position in the world.

 

The EU have a bigger interest in ensuring the future of the EU

 

I could be wrong, so lets start by you bullet pointing the progress in the trade talks so far?

Fair enough, so the UK should just leave immediately as there's obviously no benefit in prolonging the agony?

 

edit - obviously, with no payment to the eu.

Edited February 17, 2018 by dick dasterdly

[dick dasterdly]

It will obviously come as a shock for you to learn that the eu will also suffer by the loss of the uk....

[nontabury]

8 hours ago, sawadee1947 said:

Wait and see what will happen to your empire next. A forlorn lost unimportant little island, hahaha

Nice to see,your keeping up with your bigoted Irish nationalistic views.

[sawadee1947]

16 hours ago, nontabury said:

Nice to see,your keeping up with your bigoted Irish nationalistic views.

Wrong, I'm only a convinced European 

[citybiker]

 
I don't see how Germany will lose anything, even a hard 'no deal' Brexit will just mean the UK either paying more for German cars or grey imports.
 
As I said before, the UK has zero leverage in the Brexit negotiations, hence the complete lack of progress on a trade deal as the cliff edge nears.

Zero leverage? That’s questionable to put it mildly, the EU are livid the U.K. is leaving as most europhiles thought it would be business as usual, oh dear....looks like MS fees are about to increase and certain projects reduced or removed completely*

*All available through open source

Lack of progress? Are you privy to the negotiations to know what your talking about reference progress?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Air Smiles]

2 hours ago, citybiker said:

Lack of progress? Are you privy to the negotiations to know what your talking about reference progress?

 

 

Seeing as you are "privy to the negotiations".

Did you miss this post with my question at the end?

 

On 17/02/2018 at 8:13 AM, Air Smiles said:

 

I think you are being short sighted and suffering delusions of grandeur regarding the UK's position in the world.

 

The EU have a bigger interest in ensuring the future of the EU

 

I could be wrong, so lets start by you bullet pointing the progress in the trade talks so far?

 

[Air Smiles]

On 17/02/2018 at 8:41 AM, dick dasterdly said:

It will obviously come as a shock for you to learn that the eu will also suffer by the loss of the uk....

 

It will be a shock to me as the EU don't seem particularly bothered that the UK are leaving. The shock to the EU will be relatively minimal as illustrated after the Brexit result was announced, the pound plummeted to its lowest level in more than 30 years, while no such reaction from the Euro  

Edited February 18, 2018 by Air Smiles