British dad jailed in Thailand for 'abducting' son who 'asked to be taken away'

[robblok]

Just now, MaeJoMTB said:

In 1970 UK, if she shagged another guy, she walked out of court with nothing.

UK never had alimony.

Never knew about that, in Holland we had it. I do know that even in my time in Holland already it did not matter anymore if woman shagged other guys or not (would have worked in my advantage as she certainly shagged other guys). 

 

But I know one thing, that if my father and mother divorce i find it only fair if she gets part of their joint possessions and alimony. Maybe my dad would not find it fair as mom did not work but that is the way they chose to live their lives by one taking care of the kids the house and the other of the income. 

[cyberfarang]

5 minutes ago, robblok said:

Facts.. how you state it means ALL and that can never apply.. but that is an extremist point of view.. Had not expected any different. 

Institutionalised bias against male spouses and fathers:

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/relationships/fatherhood/11647915/Are-divorced-dads-really-treated-fairly-by-the-family-courts.html

 

 

[MaeJoMTB]

12 minutes ago, cyberfarang said:

Institutionalised bias against male spouses and fathers:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/relationships/fatherhood/11647915/Are-divorced-dads-really-treated-fairly-by-the-family-courts.html

I would have got a better deal from the UK courts if I had beaten her to death with my fists then confessed.

I would have kept my house, savings and pension, my children would still love me, and I would probably have been out of jail by now.

 

The sad truth is,

Murder is less of a crime than a father taking his own children!

Edited February 25, 2018 by MaeJoMTB

[4MyEgo]

Having been a single dad in my early years, it sucks, but you have to abide by the law, simple really:

 

Here we go again: Lidia is appealing for help with her son’s £5,000 legal costs at justgiving.com/crowdfunding/joe-smith-5

 

Good luck on the one

[KIWIBATCH]

2 hours ago, Sonhia said:

I feel for this guy. I have both a son and daughter, unfortunately born in Thailand, and know full well from bitter experiences, the feeling of being held back as a father, the anxiety, frustration, the not knowing, dealing with the carefree attitude of the Thai mother, who normally pushes the children onto the grandparents, in most cases, and using the father as a friend with benefits to  simply extort money from, so they can wear gold, or have the latest smart phone with the fake accessories, trying to be high so. You cannot make a silk purse from a pigs ear, but they try!

 

I've been there. .!

 

I personally would never take either my son or daughter from their respective mother, not unless the welfare of the child was/is at risk.

 

However, more assistance should be made available to foreigne fathers. As in my case, the British Embassy did very little to assist me and in fact, my Sons British passport was registered in my family name, but the Embassy allowed his British name, as stated on my sons Thai birth certificate, to be changed to his Thai name, even after I refused to allow his name to be changed! The British Embassy should pull its tongue out and focus more on its own citizens!

 

Those many fathers, out there, will know what I'm taking about.

 

As for taking the matter to a Thai court, I've been there too. A waste of time, money, frustration etc. I'm a farang. Lowest of the low!

 

I fully appreciate the fathers actions, but feel that placing him in jail, is yet another slap in the face for foreigners. Ok, it is  abduction, but it's his own flesh and blood, and he probably was doing it for a very good reason?! Let's face it, Education in Thailand is sub standard, future outlook is bleak etc and although the U.K, is not a perfect place,  it is, however, a much better place compared to here. FACT!

 

Some may ask, "Why do you stay?" Because of my children, and for no other reasons at all. I could run, but I man up, unlike the locals, and try to be a part of my children's life, although much restricted! 

 

I wish the father, in this report, plus all all those other caring fathers the best, but it is a struggle. 

 

 

Post of the week...!!! well said.

[Baerboxer]

1 hour ago, sanemax said:

Contrary to popular beliefs , being a single Mother on benefits in the U.K, isnt as luxurious as they make it out to be .

    The free housing, could well be a hostel or a run down hotel with other people on benefits

 

Yes it could. But it could also be a council flat or small house. 

 

I knew three sisters a while back. 2 were unmarried mothers, on full benefits, late teens/early 20's. The third, oldest, had left her husband and took their son to live with her new bf, a man about 30 years older. This guy was a fraud investigator for the social security department and apparently tipped her sisters off when they were being investigated for working without declaring it and claiming benefits. The deserted and then divorced husband, btw was a decent chap who simply married a bad'un from a bad family. 

 

But the UK social service benefits are very much abused which is why they have an army of investigators trying to police it.

 

The Thai spouses I met in the UK, at various temples, social events, parties etc were pretty aware of that social environment. Several had left their British husbands, usually taking the kids, and making full use of benefits and usually, quickly getting other bf's. So for someone to come back to a country where she won't get access to such benefits, and loose out on CSA applied payments from her ex suggests there might be some other reasons. Her background, pregnant at 21, trying to marry the father whilst already married, splitting up and living with a new bf suggests their might be some behavior pattern here. Wonder how/where Mr. Smith first met her?

 

 

 

 

Edited February 25, 2018 by Baerboxer

[PEE TEE]

Its complicated, i would have thought she broke the law and should be   questioned as she also abducted the boy. i hope it can get sorted out for the boys sake . She admits she was already married to another british man ?? the mind boggles  she sounds like a class act Not!! 

Have no idea about the laws on this in The UK or Thailand are they the same ?? 

[Tony125]

3 hours ago, MaeJoMTB said:

They never signed.

They did sign !   Even though Thailand is a signatory to the Hague Convention on the Civil Aspects of International Child Abduction (“Hague Abduction Convention”), there were no clear domestic mechanisms or legal framework in place to deal with abduction by custodial parents prior to 2013.

 

http://www.tilleke.com/resources/thailand-child-abduction-act-legal-recourse-parents

[amykat]

17 minutes ago, robblok said:

Now your whole first paragraph is something i can totally agree with. But people here stating things so definite to include all ect. If people would choose their words a bit more careful instead of taring them all with the same brush I would not have a problem with it at all. Words as many or often would much better describe it.

 

I only denigrate extremists / racists who tar ALL woman or all Thai woman without accepting there are quite a few good woman around and not accepting that guys can be at fault too. I will not stop this as I get bored of people constantly denigrating all Thais or all Thai woman. Do the same for all Dutch or all Brits or all Yanks and you get banned here on this forum. But it seems to be ok to do for all Thais.

 

Well it is an emotional topic so you have to take that into consideration.  People get quite upset ...this is more than getting overcharged for noodles.

 

Personally I think the father might be screwed in Thailand, because if she was married at the time she gave birth, then I am pretty sure that her husband at that time, will be considered the legal father of that child.  That is why he might have considered doing what he did, and not even going to court?  He would have had to do something to gain legal rights after she got divorced and he married her here I think, show paternity  ...legalize his relationship in some way and since he lived in the UK he probably never did that.

 

However we have seen many examples, that court can take years and that kid's life would be flushed down the toilet in the meantime, so??  I think it just should have been executed better.

[Baerboxer]

12 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

Having been a single dad in my early years, it sucks, but you have to abide by the law, simple really:

 

Here we go again: Lidia is appealing for help with her son’s £5,000 legal costs at justgiving.com/crowdfunding/joe-smith-5

 

Good luck on the one

 

Agree. I stuck rigidly to abiding by the law when in the same situation. Once you don't, your own credibility goes as far as "the system" and those who make decisions are concerned.

 

My ex was always spouting about must stick to the law until she didn't like the decisions! But as she found out, being rude to the people involved, slagging off the law because you don't like the decisions, and trying to browbeat a different decision doesn't work!

 

 

[Tilacme]

 The boy is now nine and old enough to express an opinion with properly trained child workers or school teachers.  I hope the Thai authorities have the wisdom to put the interests of the child first.  The father has tried to short cut the system by doing just what the mother did but unfortunately he got caught.  There are no criminals here and, the best interest of the child should be paramount.

[Jingjock]

18 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

Thai mother doesn't win everytime

A lot of Thai women do not want to win, they are happy to let their kids go, and enjoy themselves at parties bar work etc. And not have the responsability of children.

[4MyEgo]

5 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Agree. I stuck rigidly to abiding by the law when in the same situation. Once you don't, your own credibility goes as far as "the system" and those who make decisions are concerned.

 

My ex was always spouting about must stick to the law until she didn't like the decisions! But as she found out, being rude to the people involved, slagging off the law because you don't like the decisions, and trying to browbeat a different decision doesn't work!

 

 

Absolutely agree, even though I did stick within the confines of the law, every time she broke them, often, I had to keep reminding those above that a mother or a father cannot be seen above the law, and that her constant mocking of system should be stopped for once and for all, as I was willing to take the child on a full time basis if they sent her to prison, which of course they didn't but did advise her that it was her last warning, and of course from that moment, I did try and egg her on a few times, which peeesed her off, but she knew, her time was up...lol

[richard_smith237]

1 hour ago, amykat said:

I don't know why certain people tend to want to call people negative terms like this, bitter and hateful, when they are simply describing things that go on here in a realistic way.  Calling a pile of shit a field of daisies, is not necessarily a good trait to have, but some people believe you must take a positive outlook or something is wrong with you?  Do you get angry and call people bitter and twisted when they describe WW2 atrocities or you don't have any skin in that game so it doesn't bother you?

But some people are calling the whole field of daisies a pile of shit because they stepped in some...  which does come across as being bitter.

 

I think that’s the point Rob was making.

[tukkytuktuk]

Quote

His MP, Scottish Liberal Democrat Christine Jardine, also pledged to ensure her constituent gets assistance from the British consulate.

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/our-hearts-breaking-scottish-dads-12083308

 

[Tilacme]

46 minutes ago, robblok said:

Never knew about that, in Holland we had it. I do know that even in my time in Holland already it did not matter anymore if woman shagged other guys or not (would have worked in my advantage as she certainly shagged other guys). 

 

But I know one thing, that if my father and mother divorce i find it only fair if she gets part of their joint possessions and alimony. Maybe my dad would not find it fair as mom did not work but that is the way they chose to live their lives by one taking care of the kids the house and the other of the income. 

 

19 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Agree. I stuck rigidly to abiding by the law when in the same situation. Once you don't, your own credibility goes as far as "the system" and those who make decisions are concerned.

 

My ex was always spouting about must stick to the law until she didn't like the decisions! But as she found out, being rude to the people involved, slagging off the law because you don't like the decisions, and trying to browbeat a different decision doesn't work!

 

 

The law in england will ultimately go against the father. Especially if he is the worst possible thing in the courts eyes, white, middle aged and single.

Edited February 25, 2018 by Tilacme

[amykat]

Just now, Jingjock said:

A lot of Thai women do not want to win, they are happy to let their kids go, and enjoy themselves at parties bar work etc. And not have the responsability of children.

 

Yes, that is why they leave them in the village where someone, anyone kind of takes care of them for almost no cost.  And they want that paycheck from a Father if they can get it.  They also want that kid to take care of them later in life, that is their retirement plan and if there is no loyalty built up within the family, they won't have that.  Yai will help teach the kid that, to love Mom no matter what, Thai school will help teach the kid that, Thai culture will help teach the kid that.

 

I believe they don't see a lot of benefits in giving up a child, because often they have almost no burdens and these type of women don't tend to see the advantages of a good education.  I mean, who cares if their kid is a doctor in the UK if they have no loyalty and won't be sending home money anyway, right??  Or maybe they can't even imagine such things for their children? I don't know.  (Don't get mad at me everyone I don't mean all Thai women, I am speaking specifically now of the kind of person who does this, kidnaps their kid to village and dumps them in spite of having loving fathers.)

 

But I have known some women here who are working at serious jobs too, are smart, and have children living in the village, not FAR from here, 2 hours and they NEVER go there, they rarely call, they spend tons of money on themselves but seem to think they are being good mothers.  And they will pick the job back up when the kid is a teenager or older?  Basically when it can work in the city.  Almost like they are growing some livestock and when the time is right, they will cash in.  Keep it down on the farm until then??

[evadgib]

3 hours ago, MaeJoMTB said:

It's a worthless organization, you need to pay to even view the website.

They're much better than nothing at all and whatever they're charging these days (was GBP 20 when I needed them) shouldn't enter the heads of fathers needing their support, inc those in the same (International) position as the bloke in the OP.

Edited February 25, 2018 by evadgib

[WHYWHY]

The article says the Mother too the child to Thailand away from the father 

[Baerboxer]

1 minute ago, Tilacme said:

 

The law in england will ultimately go against the father.

 

Family courts in England and Wales, are tasked with making decisions that are in the best interests of the child or children when making decisions about their future. Usually, the starting point, is always that the children are better with the mothers. Rightly or wrongly, biased or not, that's their position.

 

Where family courts have shown some questionable judgement is in divorce settlements. They have in many instances moved from the balance towards really favoring the ex wife. Even hearing appeals years after the settlement because the ex wife suddenly wants a slice of her ex's new wealth, even if it was established after the divorce.

 

Ask solicitors in the UK about their experiences with family courts. Most I know speak of unpredictable and irrational interpretations from judges, who are considered somewhat less than the cream of the bench!

 

 

[MaeJoMTB]

8 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

Ask solicitors in the UK about their experiences with family courts. Most I know speak of unpredictable and irrational interpretations from judges, who are considered somewhat less than the cream of the bench!

I had a very sympathetic judge who gave her everything, and apologized that he was operating under very rigid instructions.

I don't believe family court judges have any 'wiggle room' at all.

She gets the house and kids outright (if under 14), plus 50% of everything else.

Edited February 25, 2018 by MaeJoMTB

[Wake Up]

Based on what I read the kids has two parents that are both immature and not quality law abiding parents. One for taking him from England and his family members without some agreement and one for trying to take him secretly from Thailand and his family members. And then  begging for money for legal fees. Hope the best for the kid but the parents are a mess. To have a nine year old kid and no money saved for emergencies or legal fees is irresponsible. I understand the pain of parents as I have two kids and would do legally whatever I could to see them and also can afford to be a parent financially. The lessons they are teaching this kid are shameful.  

Edited February 25, 2018 by Wake Up

[evadgib]

3 hours ago, Sonhia said:

However, more assistance should be made available to foreigne fathers. As in my case, the British Embassy did very little to assist me and in fact, my Sons British passport was registered in my family name, but the Embassy allowed his British name, as stated on my sons Thai birth certificate, to be changed to his Thai name, even after I refused to allow his name to be changed! The British Embassy should pull its tongue out and focus more on its own citizens!

This doesn't sound right. FCO has (or HAD) an international child abduction unit in London who were very good but cases were much harder if the child(ren) held dual nationality or were born elsewhere.

 

Re Passports; Names have to be the same in both passports (Thai and British). If you're claiming otherwise you should at the very least have complained and appealed.

Edited February 25, 2018 by evadgib

[evadgib]

26 minutes ago, MaeJoMTB said:

She gets the house and kids outright (if under 14), plus 50% of everything else.

.....plus The Dog, The Cat and the Ferrets 

If I hadn't experienced it (secretive, biased and anything but gender neutral UK family courts) I would never have believed it. It's only a matter of time before a (now adult) child takes HMG to the cleaners for allowing parents with care (mothers) to exclude non resident parents (fathers) from their lives, breaching their right to family life and constituting child abuse under the childrens act 1989.

 

Rant over 

Edited February 25, 2018 by evadgib

[robblok]

50 minutes ago, amykat said:

 

Well it is an emotional topic so you have to take that into consideration.  People get quite upset ...this is more than getting overcharged for noodles.

 

Personally I think the father might be screwed in Thailand, because if she was married at the time she gave birth, then I am pretty sure that her husband at that time, will be considered the legal father of that child.  That is why he might have considered doing what he did, and not even going to court?  He would have had to do something to gain legal rights after she got divorced and he married her here I think, show paternity  ...legalize his relationship in some way and since he lived in the UK he probably never did that.

 

However we have seen many examples, that court can take years and that kid's life would be flushed down the toilet in the meantime, so??  I think it just should have been executed better.

I think the father is screwed because of his actions (not the smartest thing to do but that is easy to say in hindsight). It would have been better to negotiate (before) some payment to the mother. Sure it hurts it goes against feelings of justice but it would have saved time and court costs and he would not be in the situation his is now. 

 

Its sad that things work the way they work but you can't ignore the system because you don't like how it works. In this case he tried to correct a crime by committing an other crime instead of going through the legal way and / or paying the mother off. I would not like it either paying the mother off rewarding her for a crime but sometimes its not about what is right or wrong but what is practical. Sometimes practicality wins from what is morally right or wrong.

 

Its a sad case, especially because the guy only wanted what was best for his kid and taking care of his kid something many would not do. 

[amykat]

Here is some background about Sean Fenton and Abducted Angels that relates to Thailand:

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-14737210

 

 

 

[Baerboxer]

17 minutes ago, MaeJoMTB said:

I had a very sympathetic judge who gave her everything, and apologized that he was operating under very rigid instructions.

I don't believe family court judges have any 'wiggle room' at all.

She gets the house and kids outright (if under 14), plus 50% of everything else.

 

Normally there is encouragement to reach settlement between the parties outside court. If not then the judge will decide. The guidelines do allow for some discretion. It might not seem so because they regularly favor the wife. The burden of the feminist PC world the West has become. Women divorcees used to get sweet FA and so never wanted to divorce. It's as though they now want to over compensate to make up for it! Even where the wife has been screwing around.

 

To be fair, from what I've heard the Thai courts are much fairer splitting all wealth and assets acquired during the marriage 50:50.

[BEVUP]

6 minutes ago, amykat said:

Here is some background about Sean Fenton and Abducted Angels that relates to Thailand:

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-14737210

 

 

 

The news reports say that they arrested him 2 days later For what & why ?

[Tilacme]

44 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Family courts in England and Wales, are tasked with making decisions that are in the best interests of the child or children when making decisions about their future. Usually, the starting point, is always that the children are better with the mothers. Rightly or wrongly, biased or not, that's their position.

 

Where family courts have shown some questionable judgement is in divorce settlements. They have in many instances moved from the balance towards really favoring the ex wife. Even hearing appeals years after the settlement because the ex wife suddenly wants a slice of her ex's new wealth, even if it was established after the divorce.

 

Ask solicitors in the UK about their experiences with family courts. Most I know speak of unpredictable and irrational interpretations from judges, who are considered somewhat less than the cream of the bench!

 

 

We are of course talking about two separate issues here, divorce settlement and, child contact. In uk the 2 are dealt with by separate courts as i am sure they are in Holland.   I can say that in my experience, uk  divorce courts are pretty fair but, the child access courts are owned by a bunch of lesbian spinsters calling themselves children experts.  There is a saying that the most important role in life, you are given no training for. I have many children and have been bemused by spinsters court advisers spouting complete rubbish .  Your point about having another bite of the cherry on divorce only, as i understand it, applies to significant undisclosed wealth.

Edited February 25, 2018 by Tilacme

[peter48]

We can really feel for this chap. Mostly its better to live with mixed Thai/Farang younger kids in UK /Europe first  after the marriage and then if it does not work out( quite frequent)  the wife can go back home while UK dad brings him/her up in UK , with UK passport, with better schools, higher standard of living etc., Generally most want to stay in UK but it can be hard going for 1 dad family although if children are in year 6 or beyond its slightly easier also depends on dad's job. The old rule applies do not get married to Thai lady unless you are really, really compatible otherwise relationships are less risk free.