Why Thai's fail at business, examples I've seen

[simoh1490]

14 minutes ago, inThailand said:

Whats really amazing is how many falangs fund a GF's new business without a business plan or even common sense.

Jack Ma went to Masayoshi Son of Softbank at a time when he had 32 employees and a fledgeling internet business and NO BUSINESS PLAN. Despite that, he had grown his business and Masayoshi Son invested 100 million into the business without so much as a blink of the eye, he said, " didn't need to see a business plan, he had that spark in his eye".

 

In the West we have libraries, colleges and night school courses plus a whole bunch of government literature and self-help material if we want to start up a business, we can even get loans from a range of sources to help us get going. Here, there's nothing, it's laughable that posters even think under those circumstances that a business plan is necessary, as if the entire population graduated from Wharton!

[Lacessit]

Large businesses have sufficient resources to fund English-speaking employees and signage. In small businesses, it's just happenstance if an employee speaks any English.

The OP's post is about as rational as a Thai going to London or Paris and expecting everyone to speak Thai.

[Brunolem]

5 hours ago, kenk24 said:

Have known some persistent workers who are in the same place at their jobs every day and then send their kids to college in other countries... 

Is that so?

To send kids to college abroad, you have to make more money than the average Joe working in said country, which is probably a Western country with a cost of living 3 or 4 times higher than in Thailand...not easy for a Thai street vendor...

Then you have to educate your kids in English from primary school on, so that they are fluent enough to follow high level courses dispensed in English by teachers who are not going to make it easy for your kids...not easy for a Thai street vendor...

Then you have to be well aware of how the world works, the meaning and value of a diploma, and where the best education is dispensed...not easy for a Thai street vendor, unless he reads the Wall Street Journal every day...

Then you have to forget about your culture, which is about showing your success to your familiy, neighbors and competitors, by accumulating material goods (cars, gold...) and not about providing education to your kids, something nobody cares about at street level.

 

That's a lot to ask from a street vendor!

 

Finally, a bright and very successful street vendor, if such a person exists, would rapidly grow his business and be out of the street way before his kids reach college...

Edited March 1, 2018 by Brunolem

[inThailand]

1 hour ago, simoh1490 said:

Jack Ma went to Masayoshi Son of Softbank at a time when he had 32 employees and a fledgeling internet business and NO BUSINESS PLAN. Despite that, he had grown his business and Masayoshi Son invested 100 million into the business without so much as a blink of the eye, he said, " didn't need to see a business plan, he had that spark in his eye".

 

In the West we have libraries, colleges and night school courses plus a whole bunch of government literature and self-help material if we want to start up a business, we can even get loans from a range of sources to help us get going. Here, there's nothing, it's laughable that posters even think under those circumstances that a business plan is necessary, as if the entire population graduated from Wharton!

Yes and what percent of start-ups end up like him?

 

I am not advocating a bar needs a written business plan,  just need to think about the same issues and use some common sense. A piece paper estimating sales and expenses at the least. I doubt many even done this. I am not sure who needs the profits from the business more... the GF or the falang?

[jackdd]

8 minutes ago, Brunolem said:

Then you have to educate your kids in English from primary school on, so that they are fluent enough to follow high level courses dispensed in English by teachers who are not going to make it easy for your kids...

Thats not necessary. Usually if people study abroad in a country that's not english speaking they study the language one year in their home country, then another year in their target country, and then they go to the university in their target country, together with all the native speakers. So if you put enough effort in it it's very well possible to learn a language at a level that allows you to study at university level within 2 years. Of course they won't understand 100% then and have to put much more effort in their studies than the native speakers.

Edited March 1, 2018 by jackdd

[simoh1490]

3 minutes ago, inThailand said:

Yes and what percent of start-ups end up like him?

 

I am not advocating a bar needs a written business plan,  just need to think about the same issues and use some common sense. A piece paper estimating sales and expenses at the least. I doubt many even done this. I am not sure who needs the profits from the business more... the GF or the falang?

Well, Son bought into about 100 startups on the back of his success with Ma so we'll have to wait and see. And I think you underestimate the degree of consideration that goes into start ups here, there will be some who charge blindly ahead but this is a developing country and not a fully developed one so that is to be expected. I think however there is a degree of business planning and modelling that goes on inside peoples heads albeit it's not formalised, if that wasn't true Thailand wouldn't have the number of successful businesses that it does have just through sheer luck alone..

[Brunolem]

5 minutes ago, jackdd said:

Thats not necessary. Usually if people study abroad in a country that's not english speaking they study the language one year in their home country, then another year in their target country, and then they go to the university in their target country, together with all the native speakers. 

All that on the budget of a street vendor!

 

On top of that, Thais have a major handicap when studying foreign languages: their unique alphabet and the fact that they are alone in the world (with Laos) to use scriptura continua (a writing system with no punctuation and no space between words).

This explains the huge difficulties they have to learn English...and it won't be easier for them to study any other foreign language, for the same reasons...

[1FinickyOne]

39 minutes ago, Brunolem said:

Is that so?

To send kids to college abroad, you have to make more money than the average Joe working in said country, which is probably a Western country with a cost of living 3 or 4 times higher than in Thailand...not easy for a Thai street vendor...

Then you have to educate your kids in English from primary school on, so that they are fluent enough to follow high level courses dispensed in English by teachers who are not going to make it easy for your kids...not easy for a Thai street vendor...

Then you have to be well aware of how the world works, the meaning and value of a diploma, and where the best education is dispensed...not easy for a Thai street vendor, unless he reads the Wall Street Journal every day...

Then you have to forget about your culture, which is about showing your success to your familiy, neighbors and competitors, by accumulating material goods (cars, gold...) and not about providing education to your kids, something nobody cares about at street level.

 

That's a lot to ask from a street vendor!

 

Finally, a bright and very successful street vendor, if such a person exists, would rapidly grow his business and be out of the street way before his kids reach college...

not all street vendors are the same... some make pretty good money and are smart... every profession has an upper one or two percent... I have known two that fit my example. 

[1FinickyOne]

23 minutes ago, Brunolem said:

All that on the budget of a street vendor!

 

On top of that, Thais have a major handicap when studying foreign languages: their unique alphabet and the fact that they are alone in the world (with Laos) to use scriptura continua (a writing system with no punctuation and no space between words).

This explains the huge difficulties they have to learn English...and it won't be easier for them to study any other foreign language, for the same reasons...

And interestingly, if you look at most farang/Thai couples, the Thai lady is speaking the foreign language and the farang not speaking much Thai... I meet many many lightly educated Thai ladies who speak the language of their husband.. and in spite of living here, the farang can barely spit out a sentence... [oddly, these are often the same farang on this forum who call their wives stupid]

[Brunolem]

1 minute ago, kenk24 said:

not all street vendors are the same... some make pretty good money and are smart...

If so, they grow their business.

If they are smart and making good money, they are not going to spend their life selling fried chicken on the road, under the burning sun or the drenching rain...

[Brunolem]

1 minute ago, kenk24 said:

And interestingly, if you look at most farang/Thai couples, the Thai lady is speaking the foreign language and the farang not speaking much Thai... I meet many many lightly educated Thai ladies who speak the language of their husband.. and in spite of living here, the farang can barely spit out a sentence... [oddly, these are often the same farang on this forum who call their wives stupid]

You are right!

Actually, my wife and myself talk to each other in English...even though we are both non native speakers...

 

Having said that, talking the talk and following a course in maths or biology in a foreign language are two very different things.

Most of these Thai women living with a farang are totally unable to read a single paragraph written in the foreign language they speak, nor are they able to write even a simple sentence in said language

That is not an issue in daily life, but it is a major problem for someone who has to study and cannot do so only with spoken language...

[sanemax]

I have seen numerous restaurants fail (eating places, rather than actual restaurants)

   They initially open up and serve quite nice food   .

As the weeks go by, they tend to cut back on things , to make more money (I presume).

   In a Pad Thai , the noodles and chicken would get less and the tofu and bean sprouts would increase , they would stop using a tomato in the salad and use a cucumber instead .

   There seemed to be a constant cycle of a decline in food and fewer and fewer customers .

   They then started opening later and closing earlier and sometimes  not opening at all , closed down completely after six months

[sanemax]

The local noodle shop began selling beer at night time ,  began with having a fridge full of various beer , which sold quite well .

   The fridge began to get less stocked as the weeks went by , then only began selling large Chang and Leos , then it was just large Leos and only about a dozen of them to sell .

   When the Leos had sold out and someone ordered a beer , she would quickly run around to 7/11 and buy a beer and sell it for 15 Baht extra .

   I was paying her 15 Baht to run around to 7/11 , as I would quite often get them to take-away .

  I ended up just walking around to 7/11 myself

[jackdd]

1 hour ago, Brunolem said:

All that on the budget of a street vendor!

Yes, it's possible if you really want it. I have a Vietnamese ex GF in Germany who did exactly what i said before, her dad is retired and gets a small pension and her mom is selling stuff at a market.

But she always worked while studying to support herself, of course without working herself it would not be possible.

[sanemax]

41 minutes ago, kenk24 said:

And interestingly, if you look at most farang/Thai couples, the Thai lady is speaking the foreign language and the farang not speaking much Thai..

Although the discussions are usually quite simplistic , conversations typically encompass 50-100 words and usually revolve around 2-3 topics .

[JAZZDOG]

6 hours ago, sanemax said:

Although the discussions are usually quite simplistic , conversations typically encompass 50-100 words and usually revolve around 2-3 topics .

Very true, my GF has the talking part down, the listening, comprehending or understanding basic concepts is not there at all. She does well in her own language and my Thai sucks so cant be too critical.

[Kimber]

10 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

I've watched five children of my extended family go through the government system of schooling over the past 16 years I've lived here, one finished up in Med school, two others ended up in CMU, all without any financial assistance from me. Tung Siliam school in Sukhothai Province produces a large number of graduates who go on to higher level education at good quality institutions in Thailand, they wouldn't do that with the simplified curriculum you portray and I'm certain that school is not the only one. Expats kids and corporal punishment, who knows, who cares.

 

See you can be civil if you make an effort. 555

 

My reference was to Thai kids and corporal punishment in Thai schools.

 

Is the Tung Siliam school  public or private ?

If public, are you asserting the school is an exception or common in it's production of graduates ?

 

How "marketable" are Thai graduates outside Thailand itself ? 

 

 

[simoh1490]

[MaeJoMTB]

8 hours ago, kenk24 said:

And interestingly, if you look at most farang/Thai couples, the Thai lady is speaking the foreign language and the farang not speaking much Thai... I meet many many lightly educated Thai ladies who speak the language of their husband.. and in spite of living here, the farang can barely spit out a sentence... [oddly, these are often the same farang on this forum who call their wives stupid]

My misses could already speak Village Lanna, Laos, Central Thai and Southern Thai, English is just another language to someone who already speaks many. We also speak English at home so that our children can speak English.

 

It just isn't that important for me to speak Laos.

I can speak a bit of Central Thai, but  don't get any practice as nobody I have contact with speaks it.

 

But Thai's running business, they don't seem to make any effort or have much desire to make money.

I can think of 10 ways to make good money in Thailand, but I'm retired.

Edited March 1, 2018 by MaeJoMTB

[jackdd]

11 minutes ago, MaeJoMTB said:

I can think of 10 ways to make good money in Thailand, but I'm retired.

Everybody here has at least 10 ideas on how to make money. And most economics students have probably 100 ideas in their first year with which they plan to become rich, and then they try to find people who can execute their ideas...

But many people never understand that having an idea means basically nothing, and is less than 1% of what it needs to run a successful business.

Edited March 1, 2018 by jackdd

[MaeJoMTB]

20 minutes ago, jackdd said:

Everybody here has at least 10 ideas on how to make money. And most economics students have probably 100 ideas in their first year with which they plan to become rich, and then they try to find people who can execute their ideas...

But many people never understand that having an idea is less than 1% of what it needs to run a successful business.

All my ideas are already in production, but only for my own use.

Mainly stuff you can't buy for a reasonable price in Thailand.

 

Not big $$$$$

Just something a Thai could sell and make 10k a month without investing too much time or money.

Edited March 1, 2018 by MaeJoMTB

[Chrisdoc]

Actually I have found LOS an easy place to run a successful business. My guesthouse/café here has been up and running 18 months averaging over 90% occupancy. The key is simple and the same as my other businesses in resort areas in several countries. Simply outshine the competition which isn't difficult, especially here. Our businesses are clean, modern and unique. Staff is attractive, smart and always smiling because we make their place of work pleasant. Finally price your product to sell which takes constant attention to market conditions. I say it's easy now just because I have been doing it a long time, paid my dues screwing up and now it is second nature. As is the norm people who throw shade come under two categories. They have never been there and read stats or been there and failed and need to find blame. Failure is a good thing if used as an education resulting in eventual success. Failure as a means to give up, not so much.

Easy come, easy go!

You're obviously doing the wrong thing. You are meant to leave your Thai girlfriend to run the business and have all her friends come there to work and play dance music really loud. Make sure you tell all the girls to jump on every customer and try and get them to buy a really overpriced lady drink (as long as there is nothing important for them to look at on their phones). Then when the business goes under you can tell everyone that it is impossible to do business in Thailand.

Sent from my SM-G900I using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[JAZZDOG]

8 hours ago, Chrisdoc said:

 

 

 

 

You're obviously doing the wrong thing. You are meant to leave your Thai girlfriend to run the business and have all her friends come there to work and play dance music really loud. Make sure you tell all the girls to jump on every customer and try and get them to buy a really overpriced lady drink (as long as there is nothing important for them to look at on their phones). Then when the business goes under you can tell everyone that it is impossible to do business in Thailand.

Sent from my SM-G900I using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

 

 

 

 

So many cynics quoting their standard truisms. It goes without saying one must employee the best staff they can find, pay and treat them fairly. And yes my GF manages my business. She took a business that 18 months ago was wallowing, 50% occupancy and café pretty much in the red. Almost instantly, through hard work, smart work, she had numbers up 80% where they remain. That basically represents profit as most expenses are fixed costs which she brought down. I have similar businesses on three other continents and my GF here is by far the best and brightest. You are correct that many farang that have augered in did their recruiting and hiring after midnight fueled on leos. Fact is it's impossible to do business that way anywhere. Not all of us met our GFs in bars, just most TV commenters it seems. I will agree with the cynics that a beer bar is not a great business idea IMHO due to being an employee nightmare. 

[Get Real]

On 2018-02-27 at 6:24 AM, Cracker2000 said:

When I've been in Central Pattaya I have never had an issue communicating at either a '7/11' or 'Family Mart' and frequently they have offer signs in English as well as Thai, as they know thats where a lot more of their customer base is.

 

Also I've never seen any of them let an cart block the door and sell competing products (although there is a lady who runs a great noodle soup stall outside the Family Mart opposite Greenery House Hotel on Soi Buakhao but she doesn't block the doorway and only opens in the evening).

Yeah, right! 7-11 and Family Mart is really two business in Thailand that goes very bad. Was that really the best you could do? In that case don´t think about starting a business. 

[Air Smiles]

7-11 opened their first Thai store in 1989 and currently have 10,000 shops in Thailand.

 

I wonder how many 'bing bongs' that might be on any given day?

Edited March 1, 2018 by Air Smiles

[simoh1490]

2 minutes ago, Air Smiles said:

7-11 opened their first Thai store in 1989 and currently have 10,000 shops in Thailand.

7-11 is a franchise, CP is the master franchise holder and subleases to others. So it's a money game on the front end with CP owning the franchise and then small leaseholders assuming an existing business model including supplies. I wouldn't really consider owning a 7-11 sub lease as being a new business start up but that's just me.

[champers]

On 2/28/2018 at 2:04 PM, remorhaz said:

Thais and business...  here's a hypothetical that illustrates a point that I have seen in one way or another in Thailand.  A Thai owns a block of 10 rental units.  He rents them for 1,000 Baht each.  Unexpectedly 5 of his renters leave within the same month.  The owner then goes to the remaining 5 and tells them that rent is now 2,000 Baht a month.  In response to this 4 out of the remaining 5 leave.  The owner than goes to his sole remaining renter and tells him that rent is now 10,000 Baht a month which immediately prompts his last renter to leave.  His entire complex stays empty for 2 months.  Finally a potential customer comes up and asks how much it is to rent one of his units - the owner answers "10,000 baht" - the owner is used to getting 10,000 baht after all.  The new customer immediately walks away.  At the temple the owner prays and lights an incense stick and dedicates a bottle of Red Fanta because obviously the Buddha is angry at him as he has no customers.  

 

The absolute inability to connect cause with effect and understand that for a person to have something greater tomorrow they must not consume it or waste it today.  I blame the weather.  In Europe or North Asia if you didn't plant your crops properly and harvest them carefully you starved during the winter.  This has a tendency to shake out the lazy within a few generations.  In Thailand if you're lazy and wake up at 1pm every day and don't plant anything it doesn't matter.  When hungry you simply go tear a piece off any number of trees and eat, year round.  If you save something chances are someone will be along to take it or want to "borrow" it from you so why save anything?  Only today matters.  Ask a Thai this: would you rather get 60,000 Baht at the end of each month or 1,000 Baht each and every day.  They'll all take the 1,000 per day.  You could die today after all!  Future planning?  You think to mut.  I'll come back tomorrow?  A grave insult.  Running a business requires future thinking which is hard to do if none of your ancestors ever did this.

Interesting theory but without one iota of supporting evidence. It could just be the product of an over-imaginative mind and a deep dislike for Thais. 

[champers]

On 2/28/2018 at 7:42 PM, geisha said:

 Theres  a lot of reasons for failing buisnesses here. We all know them. What amazes me more , is that you choose a 7/11 as an example !!!!!

That hasn't actually failed. The OP just seems miffed that the staff aren't falling over themselves to tend to his requirements as if he were a millionaire shopping at Harrods.

[simoh1490]

On 28/02/2018 at 2:04 PM, remorhaz said:

Thais and business...  here's a hypothetical that illustrates a point that I have seen in one way or another in Thailand.  A Thai owns a block of 10 rental units.  He rents them for 1,000 Baht each.  Unexpectedly 5 of his renters leave within the same month.  The owner then goes to the remaining 5 and tells them that rent is now 2,000 Baht a month.  In response to this 4 out of the remaining 5 leave.  The owner than goes to his sole remaining renter and tells him that rent is now 10,000 Baht a month which immediately prompts his last renter to leave.  His entire complex stays empty for 2 months.  Finally a potential customer comes up and asks how much it is to rent one of his units - the owner answers "10,000 baht" - the owner is used to getting 10,000 baht after all.  The new customer immediately walks away.  At the temple the owner prays and lights an incense stick and dedicates a bottle of Red Fanta because obviously the Buddha is angry at him as he has no customers.  

 

The absolute inability to connect cause with effect and understand that for a person to have something greater tomorrow they must not consume it or waste it today.  I blame the weather.  In Europe or North Asia if you didn't plant your crops properly and harvest them carefully you starved during the winter.  This has a tendency to shake out the lazy within a few generations.  In Thailand if you're lazy and wake up at 1pm every day and don't plant anything it doesn't matter.  When hungry you simply go tear a piece off any number of trees and eat, year round.  If you save something chances are someone will be along to take it or want to "borrow" it from you so why save anything?  Only today matters.  Ask a Thai this: would you rather get 60,000 Baht at the end of each month or 1,000 Baht each and every day.  They'll all take the 1,000 per day.  You could die today after all!  Future planning?  You think to mut.  I'll come back tomorrow?  A grave insult.  Running a business requires future thinking which is hard to do if none of your ancestors ever did this.

Pretty much all of what you've written here is designed to demonstrate how stupid the theoretically average Thai person is and does absolutely nothing to describe the positive side of Thai business, I guess you're either a racist, can't begin to understand the problem being discussed or both!

 

There are loads of successful businesses in Thailand and there's a large number of very wealthy business people here. There's also a huge number of very average family businesses that manage to eek out a good living in the face of much competition and without the support of government and social safety nets: there's no new business start up support, there's no unemployment support (to speak of), there's no training courses in how to do this and that. Instead what exists is a nation of people who take business ideas from concept to fruition through sheer hard work, determination and faith. Sure many of them fail, just like 90% of new business startups fail in the West in the first five years but many of them survive and grow, but they're not convenient to talk about in this Thai bashing thread! 

 

It constantly amazes me that people come to Thailand from the West with their own ideas about how everything should be and instantly spot the differences between where they came from and here claiming that Thai's would be so much better if only they would do things the way we do them back home. Perhaps posters would do better to try and understand what it is that makes things work here rather the things they think should be improved or changed to match what they know back home! 

 

[lkn]

17 hours ago, MaeJoMTB said:

My misses could already speak Village Lanna, Laos, Central Thai and Southern Thai, English is just another language to someone who already speaks many

It is absolutely not just another language. English has future and past tense, it has singular and plural, it has sounds that does not exist in the languages you mention, and a completely different grammar.

 

It’s like saying that a Swede that can already communicate with Danes and Norwegians can easily pick up Chinese…