Brexit has created chaos in Britain – nobody voted for this

[The Renegade]

6 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

I think that we all care passionately about our country, so maybe it is time to rein yourself in; when you accuse another poster of hating the UK, just because he sees a brighter future for the UK outside of the EU, you are starting to exhibit a rather nasty and unnecessary trend in your comments.

This keeps popping into my head, no idea why

 

Quote

Trolls–those who make harsh and nasty comments just to take over and disrupt discussions–are the bane of the internet.  It turns out, some trolls are paid for their work.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/geneveith/2014/12/professional-trolls/

 

Disclaimer.

 

I am not claiming that professional trolls have infested TV.

[tomacht8]

11 hours ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

A European Economic Community might have worked...... a a bit like ASEAN. 

It all started that way.
Then over 40 years the eu project has developed. And the UK was involved all the time as one of the biggest net payers. For the uk there were made many times special solutions. I think it's a pity that the uk now, after 40 years suddenly say everything is shit. This is probably where the EU parlament members from the UK have failed. With its veto power, the uk could have changed the eu.
and there could have been majorities for many topics. 

 

In 40 years, the EU has evolved from a pure trade association.
For example the binding jurisdiction. how else could the eu enforce the following measures in each country uniform:

 

if a federation of 28 countries decides that e.g.

- plastic bags may be dispensed in supermarkets for free to reduce the microplastic in the sea.
- Only energy-saving lamps can be used to reduce co2 emissions.
- prescribes the mesh size in fishing nets so that the juvenile fish can survive.
- requires phone companies to limit a maximum for roaming charges to protect consumers from rip-off.
- to regulate the maximum working hours to protect workers from exploitation.
- Conduct basic research together and share the research results.

I could list 1000 more examples.
But at the core this is more efficient than, each individual state implements such measures for itself depending on there mood or even not.
 

 

 

Edited May 25, 2018 by tomacht8

[soalbundy]

38 minutes ago, HAKAPALITA said:

I want to BREXIT. Anyone know how to Exit Notifications for this Yawnfest of a topic, once youve commented.?.I can clear notifications but not one topic only. ?

yes let's get back to crocks

[tebee]

Ok I won't reply individually, but any responsible adult  who has the slightest idea how international trade works these days,should know that going from EU membership to trading on WTO rules is economic suicide . It's too much of a shock to the UK were businesses have been trading on what they assumed was a stable platform for 40 years.

 

There are those that see this as an opportunity to rebuild Britain in a different way - Pete North is one - but I don't think the pain suffered by the average man or woman will be worth it.

 

The UK has done no preparations to be ready for this scenario, if it happens, this will make the chaos ten times worse. It's also why I don't think it will happen and why we will withdraw the art 50 notification at the last minute.  

 

Oddly enough the foreign owned companies  will be in a much better position than UK owned ones. We have international agreements that contain investor state dispute adjudication clauses  that let companies sue the government if the change trading conditions for the worse.

 

 

[dick dasterdly]

35 minutes ago, HAKAPALITA said:

I want to BREXIT. Anyone know how to Exit Notifications for this Yawnfest of a topic, once youve commented.?.I can clear notifications but not one topic only. ?

I'm sure you could find the answer on the 'Forum support desk' forum.

[soalbundy]

1 hour ago, The Renegade said:

You should try and update yourself, this was already debunked yesterday

 

Reuters

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-transition/brexit-transition-will-end-in-dec-2020-uk-source-denies-reports-of-additional-period-idUSKCN1IP18T

Today in the Indy, 'Pro-brexit tory mp's concede staying in EU customs union into next decade is 'only viable option',  verdict backed by Mogg.

[The Renegade]

10 minutes ago, tebee said:

Ok I won't reply individually, but any responsible adult  who has the slightest idea how international trade works these days,should know that going from EU membership to trading on WTO rules is economic suicide .

After your efforts yesterday, it is clear that you do not know how UK customs Import / Exports work.

 

So I do not think anyone needs to run to their safe space over your interpretation of how International Trade works these days.

 

14 minutes ago, tebee said:

should know that going from EU membership to trading on WTO rules is economic suicide .

Does that also apply to the EU ? Or do they have some magical exemption ?

[transam]

57 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

This keeps popping into my head, no idea why

 

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/geneveith/2014/12/professional-trolls/

 

Disclaimer.

 

I am not claiming that professional trolls have infested TV.

Seems only those who worry about their cash not in the UK.....

[The Renegade]

9 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

Today in the Indy, 'Pro-brexit tory mp's concede staying in EU customs union into next decade is 'only viable option',  verdict backed by Mogg.

This report ?

 

Quote

Pro-Brexit Tory MPs have agreed that staying in the EU customs union into the next decade is likely to be the “only viable option”, in a new report.  

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-customs-union-uk-stay-2020-tory-mps-jacob-rees-mogg-a8367001.html

 

Should have checked the date on the article. That is the report from yesterday, that Tebee posted yesterday and was subsequently debunked by the Reuters article that I have now posted twice.

 

 

[Kieran00001]

3 hours ago, The Renegade said:

I have no idea how many times I and many others say it. There is only 1 option that is acceptable to the EU and that is for the UK to remain joined at the hip to the EU under the control of Brussels and the ECJ.

 

Ergo, the UK only has 1 option, to leave the EU on the March 29 2019 and immediately go to WTO rules.

 

To try and sell anything else to the UK electorate is mis-selling 

 

Time to give that message to the EU in writing, and sit back and watch the squirming.

 

There is no bargaining power in threatening to go to WTO rules, it would massively damage our economy and take decades to recover while the EU would barely feel it and at current growth rates would recover in two years.

[dick dasterdly]

3 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

Today in the Indy, 'Pro-brexit tory mp's concede staying in EU customs union into next decade is 'only viable option',  verdict backed by Mogg.

If true, this is 'interesting'.

 

Politicians looking for excuses as to why they have put no plans in place for leaving the eu....

[dick dasterdly]

Just now, The Renegade said:

This report ?

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-customs-union-uk-stay-2020-tory-mps-jacob-rees-mogg-a8367001.html

 

Should have checked the date on the article. That is the report from yesterday, that Tebee posted yesterday and was subsequently debunked by the Reuters article that I have now posted twice.

 

 

There's no way to know who to 'sort of trust' nowadays ☹️.

[The Renegade]

1 minute ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

There is no bargaining power in threatening to go to WTO rules, it would massively damage our economy and take decades to recover while the EU would barely feel it and at current growth rates would recover in two years.

What would you know about economic damage ?

 

You do not even know the ECB is still pumping €30 billion a month in QE.

 

Your safe space awaits.

 

 

[The Renegade]

Just now, dick dasterdly said:

There's no way to know who to 'sort of trust' nowadays ☹️.

That's true.

 

But between the Independent ( ? ) The Guardian ( ? ) or Reuters, there is only 1 winner.

[soalbundy]

5 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

This report ?

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-customs-union-uk-stay-2020-tory-mps-jacob-rees-mogg-a8367001.html

 

Should have checked the date on the article. That is the report from yesterday, that Tebee posted yesterday and was subsequently debunked by the Reuters article that I have now posted twice.

 

 

Having read the Reuters report I still get the feeling that 2023 could still come back to the table. It all seems such an unholy mess, the government is totally divided.

[yogi100]

On 5/19/2018 at 9:44 AM, tebee said:

British politics is broken.  While I think that stopping Brexit will not itself fix these politics in the short-term, ploughing on with it will embed its current broken form as the new normal in the medium-to-long term. Continuing with it gives the simple message to current and future voters and politicians that lies win, and can be deployed with impunity, conventions are meaningless, the constitution is weak, opponents need not be respected, and that the interests of the country are secondary to political whim. 

 

It also  tells  that the vilification of judges, civil servants, diplomats, foreigners, and even swathes of the population is acceptable, and, worse, a winning political strategy. In short, it says that the con-artists won, will continue to win, and there’s nothing anybody can do about it. They’re in charge now.

 

So, yes, a new referendum  will create its own problems and reopen divisions, but it may at least put us in a position where we are able to start dealing with the UK’s problems, rather than embedding  them further. It also seems apparent now that whatever form of Brexit is chosen will not bring healing stability. An EEA-like Brexit will anger the Ultras, allow them to blame all ills on Brexit not being done ‘properly’, and bring constant calls to withdraw from the arrangement. A hard Brexit will ruin the Good Friday Agreement, and bring economic harm that will make poverty, inequality and exclusion even worse, and tackling it nigh on impossible. 

 

So  a new referendum  won’t be pretty, but the alternative is much worse still. 

 

Britain or more specifically England is becoming ungovernable and the number of murders in London has now exceeded those in New York for the first time in 200 years and more fatal stabbings have occurred so far this year than have been reported in New York, Detroit and Chicago combined. Just as well there are few guns about in the UK.

 

These sort of statistics tell us all we need to know about the UK in this day and age and were absolutely unimaginable a few decades ago and is a sure sign the multicultural paradise that the politicians dreamed up for us is now a nightmare. This is not being 'racist' nor xenophobic, it's just stating a fact that can be borne out when you look at the photos of the people involved in the stabbing frenzy that's hit London,

 

We are told that there is very low unemployment in the UK right now but those who get the minimum wage and in work benefits are not mentioned. The gap between the rich and poor is the greatest it's been in living memory and Corbyn is gaining support because of this in spite of having a shadow Home Secretary in the form of Diane Abbott at his side.

 

Our generation might sneer at the idea of a Labour Government but young socialist minded folk and the poor, the homeless and the disadvantaged in society don't and we got a shock at the last GE when the Tories only just scraped back into office. The numbers of that society have since been growing on a daily basis.

 

Eventually when a country begins breaking up the people will seek someone who will repair it and put it back together again. And that's often when the extremists get in on the act like Mussolini and Hitler did in Italy and Germany after the Great War. And like Stalin did after the Russian revolution of 1917.

 

For those of us who regularly visit Thailand proof of the failing British economy is right in front of our faces each time we go to the exchange booth and has been going in this direction now for over 15 years. Before you blame Brexit remember the likes of the Rothchilds, Goldman Sachs and Carney and his chums at the Bank of England making threats about how Joe Bloggs would now start suffering financially when he went on holiday after 23/6/16. But they were obviously not just threats but promises.

 

For the first time since records began the number of British visitors to the LOS has declined in the last year according to the Thai tourism people. That's fairly evident when you see how few British people are now in the bars of the Thai resorts when they used to represent the majority especially in Pattaya where I am right now. I've never seen it so quiet in the Falang bar areas.

Edited May 25, 2018 by yogi100

[tebee]

Oh Wooppie !

 

500 pages and still no consensus.

 

Enjoy the next 30 years of this ! 

[The Renegade]

1 minute ago, tebee said:

Oh Wooppie !

 

500 pages and still no consensus.

 

Enjoy the next 30 years of this ! 

Why are you trying so hard to discredit the myth that Remainers are highly educated and highly intelligent ?

[The Renegade]

11 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

Having read the Reuters report I still get the feeling that 2023 could still come back to the table. It all seems such an unholy mess, the government is totally divided.

There is an holy mess coming up alright.

 

It would appear that the Italians are in no mood to take prisoners

 

Quote

Matteo Salvini has responded to international concern by telling the French economy minister to 'mind his own business'

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/may/24/italy-coalition-eu-migrants#comment-116201587

 

I would not worry about 2023, there might not be a recognisable EU by then, the 2020 -2027 budget negotiations might be all that is needed to tip the whole lot into the bin where it belongs.

[dick dasterdly]

5 minutes ago, yogi100 said:

 

Britain or more specifically England is becoming ungovernable and the number of murders in London has now exceeded those in New York for the first time in 200 years and more fatal stabbings have occurred so far this year than have been reported in New York, Detroit and Chicago combined. Just as well there are few guns about in the UK.

 

These sort of statistics tell us all we need to know about the UK in this day and age and were absolutely unimaginable a few decades ago and is a sure sign the multicultural paradise that the politicians dreamed up for us is now a nightmare. This is not being 'racist' nor xenophobic, it's just stating a fact that can be borne out when you look at the photos of the people involved in the stabbing frenzy that's hit London,

 

We are told that there is very low unemployment in the UK right now but those who get the minimum wage and in work benefits are not mentioned. The gap between the rich and poor is the greatest it's been in living memory and Corbyn is gaining support because of this in spite of having a shadow Home Secretary in the form of Diane Abbott at his side.

 

Our generation might sneer at the idea of a Labour Government but young socialist minded folk and the poor, the homeless and the disadvantaged in society don't and we got a shock at the last GE when the Tories only just scraped back into office. The numbers of that society have since been growing on a daily basis.

 

Eventually when a country begins breaking up the people will seek someone who will repair it and put it back together again. And that's often when the extremists get in on the act like Mussolini and Hitler did in Italy and Germany after the Great War. And like Stalin did after the Russian revolution of 1917.

 

For those of us who regularly visit Thailand proof of the failing British economy is right in front of our faces each time we go to the exchange booth and has been going in this direction now for over 15 years. Before you blame Brexit remember the likes of the Rothchilds, Goldman Sachs and Carney and his chums at the Bank of England making threats about how Joe Bloggs would now start suffering financially when he went on holiday after 23/6/16. But they were obviously not just threats but promises.

 

For the first time since records began the number of British visitors to the LOS has declined in the last year according to the Thai tourism people. That's fairly evident when you see how few British people are now in the bars of the Thai resorts when they used to represent the majority especially in Pattaya where I am right now. I've never seen it so quiet in the Falang bar areas.

I agree with much of this, but the current, appallingly low exchange rate isn't due to " the failing British economy is right in front of our faces".

 

It had been falling slowly for a while, but there was a sudden, unprecedented (?) drop after the brexit vote that hasn't been corrected - even though the uk govt. is headed towards a 'leave in name only' result.

[tebee]

5 minutes ago, tebee said:

Oh Wooppie !

 

500 pages and still no consensus.

 

Enjoy the next 30 years of this ! 

 

2 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

Why are you trying so hard to discredit the myth that Remainers are highly educated and highly intelligent ?

 

Because that is what we are going to get - whether you win or I win and whatever happens no one is going to be happy. We have so many camps now  Hard leavers, soft levers, Singapore by the sea leavers, Irish nationalists, Irish unionists, Scottish nationalists, reluctant remainers turned leavers, leavers turned remainers, multiculturalists, English nationalists, Globalists, remainers, EEA supporters, hard remainers, EU federalists Cobyinists ( Spellcheck suggest that should be communists, it's cleaver than I gave it credit for), WTO enthusiasts and god knows how many others. Whatever course we take the majority will not be satisfied now. How ever well it turns out there will the those who will say we could have done better.

 

I can't see us getting anything approaching unity   in the country in a generation, this thread is just a microcosm   of that.

 

[billd766]

1 hour ago, HAKAPALITA said:

I want to BREXIT. Anyone know how to Exit Notifications for this Yawnfest of a topic, once youve commented.?.I can clear notifications but not one topic only. ?

 

Open the thread and up on the top you will see a small blur box with a tick mark labelled following.

 

Open that up and you will see "Change follow preferences".

 

Click on the unfollow box in the bottom right corner.

 

Then you should get no more notifications of that particular thread.

[dick dasterdly]

15 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

Having read the Reuters report I still get the feeling that 2023 could still come back to the table. It all seems such an unholy mess, the government is totally divided.

IMO the govt. is only divided between those MPs who are worried that many voters will turn against them if they fail to deliver the brexit referendum result, and those that are determined to pursue the remain cause.  Again IMO, both sides are looking to find a way to 'leave in name only' result that will appease the electorate.

[billd766]

29 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

There's no way to know who to 'sort of trust' nowadays ☹️.

 

The only person that you can trust is yourself.

 

For all others use the salt technique.

 

The more that you feel you can trust the less salt you need to accept their opinions and posts.

 

There are some posters on here whose ideas and opinions IMHO need a whole truck full of salt.

[tebee]

4 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

IMO the govt. is only divided between those MPs who are worried that many voters will turn against them if they fail to deliver the brexit referendum result, and those that are determined to pursue the remain cause.  Again IMO, both sides are looking to find a way to 'leave in name only' result that will appease the electorate.

There are also those who know that leaving with no deal will be an economic disaster for their constituents and will result in them being out of power for decades. Leave in name only works for them too.

[Kieran00001]

42 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

What would you know about economic damage ?

 

You do not even know the ECB is still pumping €30 billion a month in QE.

 

Your safe space awaits.

 

 

 

Get a grip, you've posted nonsense after nonsense and all you can clutch at is my mistaking the announcement that QE will end with it having already ended.  Would you like me to remind you of all the ,misunderstandings on your part so far?  Like for instance your response to my post containing the leaflet which informed every British household of the Common Market intention to form a nation with a further denial that the public were informed, with a reference to the White Paper which of course said nothing about the intention as it was a paper detailing how the referendum would be carried out not on what the decision meant, something that the public had been informed about for the 4 years previously and again in the weeks before the vote.

[yogi100]

2 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

I agree with much of this, but the current, appallingly low exchange rate isn't due to " the failing British economy is right in front of our faces".

 

It had been falling slowly for a while, but there was a sudden, unprecedented (?) drop after the brexit vote that hasn't been corrected - even though the uk govt. is headed towards a 'leave in name only' result.

 

The failing British economy results in what we see when we go to change our money up and in just under 2 years it's gone down from 55 baht to 42 baht. That's well over 20% in just this period alone. The highest the GBP's been in recent decades was under the Labour Governmet of Tony Blair in 2003 - 4 and the lowest has been under the Tory governments of Thatcher (1984, 32 baht to the GBP) and now Theresa May (42 baht to the GBP)

 

There are empty Industrial estates all over the UK, including in London. Factories have nearly all closed down and our industries have vanished. If you don'y manufacture anything to sell you're going to wind up in the work house and that's where Britain is heading. You can't run a country on benefits as one day the funding for those benefits will inevitably dry up. and financial and banking folk will soon call it a day as unmanageable debts build up.

 

Since WW2 the world's population has trebled. Some of those third world masses are going to want a bigger share of the pie and they'll move heaven and earth in an attempt to reach a Western country where they can acquire it. The fact that they have few or no skills to bring with 'em is of no consequence as far as our liberal politicians are concerned. Already many of our low skilled manual workers face a life on welfare because of the importation of low paid Eastern European scab labour.

 

And that's when crime levels increase as we're seeing right now in the UK where the murder rate of London exceeds that of New York. If you've got children you're worried each time they go out of the front door. When I was a school kid we used to play in the streets from dawn till dusk with no worries. My mother used to want me in by 10.30 at night and as long as I complied she was quite happy. You never heard of anyone getting stabbed!

[The Renegade]

8 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

Would you like me to remind you of all the ,misunderstandings on your part so far? 

Go ahead.

 

Make yourself look even more foolish. No skin off my back.

[Kieran00001]

4 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

Go ahead.

 

Make yourself look even more foolish. No skin off my back.

 

Ok, but first address what I just said, you claimed the British public were no informed, I posted a few ways that they were, you squirmed and spoke of a paper, what paper is that and why do you think it is relevant considering the evidence I have already posted?

 

Edited May 25, 2018 by Kieran00001

[Johnnyondaspot]

I think Britain Regretsit.