Brexit has created chaos in Britain – nobody voted for this

[nauseus]

9 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

We know full well from your previous input on a range of subjects that what you understand about economic forecasts and models being correct or not is precisely zero, so it's probably best for all concerned if you don't try and comment on the subject

 

And the very thought of you advising that the UK budget is changed gives me cold sweats.

Well there's nothing like a balanced and unbiased opinion is there? If UK borrowing is not to be increased and there is no extra treasury revenue change, then how can extra funds be found for the extra services needed if there is no budgetary change in spending? As you are the self-proclaimed expert, tell us that?

 

The very idea of your cold sweats gives me the heebie-jeebies.

 

[aright]

Waiting for my taxi to the airport thought there might be some interest in this

After all, without a strong Germany, the region can’t grow. It accounts for 23pc of the zone’s GDP and has created 38pc of the new jobs in Europe over the last five years. And Germany has stopped expanding. 

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2018/04/08/eurozone-already-heading-back-recession-could-catastrophic/

[nauseus]

20 minutes ago, aright said:

Waiting for my taxi to the airport thought there might be some interest in this

After all, without a strong Germany, the region can’t grow. It accounts for 23pc of the zone’s GDP and has created 38pc of the new jobs in Europe over the last five years. And Germany has stopped expanding. 

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2018/04/08/eurozone-already-heading-back-recession-could-catastrophic/

Thanks. I can't say I'm shocked to see this. Safe flight. 

[tebee]

Brexit paradox:

 

1. Abandoning Brexit would be a betrayal of democracy, unless it is shown that the electorate has changed its mind.

 

2. We may not determine if the electorate has changed its mind, because asking would be a betrayal of democracy.

[aright]

Does this article remind you of anyone?

The illusion lingers on in many quarters that because a conclusion emerges from the whirrings of equations interacting with interminable banks of data it is somehow to be taken as gospel truth. Similarly, the reliability of these conclusions is supposedly increased if more and more modellers come to the same conclusions.

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2018/04/08/dont-listen-shout-loudest-comes-economics-brexit/

[simoh1490]

2 hours ago, nauseus said:

Well there's nothing like a balanced and unbiased opinion is there? If UK borrowing is not to be increased and there is no extra treasury revenue change, then how can extra funds be found for the extra services needed if there is no budgetary change in spending? As you are the self-proclaimed expert, tell us that?

 

The very idea of your cold sweats gives me the heebie-jeebies.

 

By, no extra revenue change, I presume you mean no increase or sudden surge in existing income.

 

Make cuts to services considered to be less important; sell something; reduce benefits even further; raise taxes; eliminate non-resident personal allowance; downsize central government; devolve revenue generation to the councils; revalue council tax; make an off balance sheet raid on pensions; eliminate state pensions; merge income tax and NI; increase VAT; devalue the Pound; get rid of the monarchy and the Civil List.....I'm sure there are other possible ways.

[transam]

2 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

By, no extra revenue change, I presume you mean no increase or sudden surge in existing income.

 

Make cuts to services considered to be less important; sell something; reduce benefits even further; raise taxes; eliminate non-resident personal allowance; downsize central government; devolve revenue generation to the councils; revalue council tax; make an off balance sheet raid on pensions; eliminate state pensions; merge income tax and NI; increase VAT; devalue the Pound; get rid of the monarchy and the Civil List.....I'm sure there are other possible ways.

See what happens, I will be happy if the UK isn't taking care of those EU folk who have never taken care...

[simoh1490]

6 minutes ago, transam said:

See what happens, I will be happy if the UK isn't taking care of those EU folk who have never taken care...

Understood, although for me personally it will be a trade-off, I might be willing to accept pain from one quarter if too much pain is threatened from another.

[transam]

Just now, simoh1490 said:

Understood, although for me personally it will be a trade-off, I might be willing to accept pain from one quarter if too much pain is threatened from another.

YouTube...UK Border Force, or New UK Border Force...

 

A real eye opener to a UK invasion not only from the EU but from elsewhere too...The UK (and am sure others) are under attack, and to thwart this stuff is costing the UK zillions....

[Grouse]

3 hours ago, vogie said:

You haven't really got the hang of how ThaiVisa works, have you. If he adds you, you will still see his posts, you must add him and I'm guessing he wouldn't lose any sleep over it. ?

Well, I never ignore anyone. I fail to see the point. However Dundee cake has made about 400 posts over many years. I am bored of seeing his crass emoticon reactions to my posts. If he doesn't see my posts, he won't comment?

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, simoh1490 said:

By, no extra revenue change, I presume you mean no increase or sudden surge in existing income.

 

Make cuts to services considered to be less important; sell something; reduce benefits even further; raise taxes; eliminate non-resident personal allowance; downsize central government; devolve revenue generation to the councils; revalue council tax; make an off balance sheet raid on pensions; eliminate state pensions; merge income tax and NI; increase VAT; devalue the Pound; get rid of the monarchy and the Civil List.....I'm sure there are other possible ways.

Well most of your proposals would certainly make more money available. However most of them would cause uprising and civil war! Just brilliant. Well done.

[nauseus]

3 hours ago, aright said:

Does this article remind you of anyone?

The illusion lingers on in many quarters that because a conclusion emerges from the whirrings of equations interacting with interminable banks of data it is somehow to be taken as gospel truth. Similarly, the reliability of these conclusions is supposedly increased if more and more modellers come to the same conclusions.

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2018/04/08/dont-listen-shout-loudest-comes-economics-brexit/

Similar from CNBC:

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/09/germanys-export-numbers-disappoint-amid-mounting-trade-fears.html

[sandyf]

16 hours ago, billd766 said:

 

Equally the people who are challanged also have the right to challenge back.

 

You can liken the decision to a horse race, dog race even people racing.

 

The first past the post is always the winner except in a photo finish when the judges have to decide. It is an accepted fact of life.

 

You and every other voter had the chance to challenge the way that the referendum was organised BEFORE it was held. Nobody did.

 

Trying to change the result after the election is like trying to change the result of a horse race or a footbal match. The rules were laid down, the referendum was held and there was a valid result.

 

Now if you want a new referendum, then why only one and not the best of three or five or any odd number.

 

If the Remainers win a second election then they should be challenged by the leavers for yet another referendum etc.

 

Who will decide what the pass mark will be and what will be the pass mark?

 

A simple majority? We had one of those and those who lost are not happy.

 

60%, 2/3, 70, 75%.

 

What about the people who don't or cant be arsed to vote. Should we split their (non) votes equally?

 

Who will pay for it? Those who challenge, those who oppose, or the poor bloody taxpayer.

Every year there are hundreds of stewards enquiries in respect of racing events. It is a fact of life that every contentious outcome will create the equivalent of a stewards enquiry.

I am not in favour of referendums, they have no useful purpose in UK national politics, with over 80% of the population they may as well just held it in England. It is fairly obvious David Cameron learned little from the Scottish referendum so despite what you may think I am not in favour of a second referendum.

As I pointed out the result of the referendum has already been enacted and personally I think we are beyond the point of no return. The social damage is already in place and UK credibility has been shot to pieces. The EU entities have been relocated and the 200 or so notified bodies told to close their doors.

What has not been decided and what was never voted on was on what basis the UK would leave the EU. There are 650 democratically elected individuals sitting in the house of commons, we pay their wages but they bow to the puppet master. It is about time they earned their keep with more participation and given a free vote on what arrangements should be in place to serve the best interests of the nation. After all the UK is a parliamentary democracy although there are many that would prefer to ignore that fact.

 

[Airbagwill]

5 hours ago, vogie said:

I think it would be safe to say that brexiteers hate arrogance and supercilliousness, and that would exclude us from joining your group. ?

Hey! If the caps fits.....

BTW, there is no invite extended. 

[Airbagwill]

8 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

Will, have you ever even been to the UK? The EU comprises just over forty percent of the UK's export market, and continues to fall steadily.

Never mind double edged sword, let's talk about wrong end of the stick ... you seem to bethink slluding to that "beacon of truth" and innuendos acronym BeeJay himself.

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-43212899

 

Yet another example of "I'm sure it's not THAT bad"?

Brexiteers seem to spend their entire time denying the "bleedin' obvious", when will we EVER hear a concrete benefit of Brexit? Other than "better to be worse off than in the EU"?

[CG1 Blue]

On ‎06‎/‎04‎/‎2018 at 6:16 PM, Airbagwill said:

No negativity about the UK ....I (I don't have an ilk or any other stereotype) am concerned about the damage to the UK brought about by a few manipulative magnates who decided regardless of the rest of the nation, they'd personally be better off or more powerful if the UK left the EU.....they have brought about a catastrophe that is more disastrous than the loss of the American Colonies, debilitating than Dunkirk and more embarrassing than Suez.

Our "negotiating" position is brought about by the reality of UK's situation and the skills, or lack of them, of the leaders who think that Brexit is a viable proposition. The rest of the world is quite capable of seeing on their own the UK is on a hiding to nothing...they don't need me to tell them.

A slight contradiction there.  You started by saying “No negativity about the UK”, and then went on the most negative rant possible about the UK’s prospects.  Have a little more faith in this great nation.

 

And by the way, the referendum result wasn’t brought about by a few magnates. There were magnates supporting both sides.  The Remain side even had the government supporting them, with the chancellor of the exchequer predicting financial collapse the day after the referendum, and a nationwide leaflet drop at the tax payers’ expense. So don’t kid yourself a few magnates on the Leave side swung the result.  

 

I believe the margin would have been much bigger in favour of Leave if it had been a fairer fight. The fact is the British people don't like being controlled by an outside entity, and thankfully we won't be for much longer.

[Grouse]

4 hours ago, talahtnut said:

The answer you required is follow logic.

I am pleased you admit models are not reliable, so why why

would you rely on them in the field of economics.

 

Dear god ?

[transam]

Just now, Grouse said:

Dear god ?

Well, perhaps you are praying regarding your EU stuff, mon ami....

[jenny2017]

Just imagine. There's a BREXIT and nobody follows. 

[puipuitom]

On ‎27‎-‎2‎-‎2018 at 10:47 PM, cooked said:

maybe there is a housing shortage due to the impossibility of planning for an economy that allows hundreds of thousands of immigrants in every year? 

Dunno, that;s probably racist.

When nodody would have hired them in for an (inofficial, so cash paid) job, many would heve returned quite quick. 

The second ave, coming in for free medical care, also could heve ended up when only British ( or .. over one year insured) persons would get the free benefits.

[Grouse]

5 minutes ago, transam said:

Well, perhaps you are praying regarding your EU stuff, mon ami....

Not at all. Now back to your Airfix models.

[simoh1490]

56 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Well most of your proposals would certainly make more money available. However most of them would cause uprising and civil war! Just brilliant. Well done.

What makes you think that not improving some services and/or doing nothing won't do exactly the same thing. I don't know what others see but I see elements of UK society breaking down already. Once you give somebody something it's very difficult to take it away from them, especially if you're government, benefits are a good example of that, look how long it's taken to get this far and look at the uproar that austerity caused. So uprising and civil war you say, what choices does a government that is broke have, ask Greece perhaps. 

[transam]

3 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Not at all. Now back to your Airfix models.

Well come to think of it I did do a Bismark, my air rifle took care of it...Mum did create at the mess....

[Airbagwill]

It would seem that Brexit and reality are two completely divergent concepts.

 

Even the government seems to think that. - lets face it, all that the "negotiations" really comprise of is are damage limitation strategies..

[simoh1490]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

Well, I never ignore anyone. I fail to see the point. However Dundee cake has made about 400 posts over many years. I am bored of seeing his crass emoticon reactions to my posts. If he doesn't see my posts, he won't comment?

By way of trying to help with this I've increased my donations to Mencap.

[sandyf]

Looks like a jobs boost for the legal profession.

 

"But legal confusion will reign when EU rules are eased. An Air France flight from Manchester to Paris would be subject to two conflicting sets of consumer protection laws: the EU regulations because the French airline is European, and the UK version which will apply to all departures from Britain. Lawyers and claims managers are likely to thrive from the extra complexity."

https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/airlines-department-transport-compensation-delays-cancellations-a8293471.html

[nauseus]

5 minutes ago, Airbagwill said:

Never mind double edged sword, let's talk about wrong end of the stick ... you seem to bethink slluding to that "beacon of truth" and innuendos acronym BeeJay himself.

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-43212899

 

Yet another example of "I'm sure it's not THAT bad"?

Brexiteers seem to spend their entire time denying the "bleedin' obvious", when will we EVER hear a concrete benefit of Brexit? Other than "better to be worse off than in the EU"?

The "bleedin' obvious" reasons that remoaners are "bleedin' oblivious" to are not primarily economic and that's what you never get, although you have been told so often. Leavers want their country to restore its full sovereignty and we want to retain our national identity; we do not want to become provinces of a European state run by a selection of invisible, untouchable people who are just crap at managing and also contain a hugely corrupt element. We want our elected governments to decide our fates (even if the options are crap like they are now). We do not want double-tiered government. We don't want the ECJ or the ECB overriding our laws and economy.

 

Now, if you don't agree with this, that's fine. But at least acknowledge it. 

[transam]

3 minutes ago, Airbagwill said:

It would seem that Brexit and reality are two completely divergent concepts.

 

Even the government seems to think that. - lets face it, all that the "negotiations" really comprise of is are damage limitation strategies..

Glad you were not around in 1939.....

[talahtnut]

27 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Dear god ?

God wont help argumentative whisky swilling rustlers    

And hes not helping the EU either.

You are going to wear a hole in your prayer mat

for nowt.

Edited April 9, 2018 by talahtnut
addition

[simoh1490]

2 minutes ago, nauseus said:

The "bleedin' obvious" reasons that remoaners are "bleedin' oblivious" to are not primarily economic and that's what you never get, although you have been told so often. Leavers want their country to restore its full sovereignty and we want to retain our national identity; we do not want to become provinces of a European state run by a selection of invisible, untouchable people who are just crap at managing and also contain a hugely corrupt element. We want our elected governments to decide our fates (even if the options are crap like they are now). We do not want double-tiered government. We don't want the ECJ or the ECB overriding our laws and economy.

 

Now, if you don't agree with this, that's fine. But at least acknowledge it. 

FWIW this remoaner gets all that but he's old enough and wise enough to know that you can't go back, everything comes with a cost and in fact there are things that are more important than national identity, whatever that means! But it's nice that you're wearing your rose tinted this is the future I want for everyone glasses, sadly, the real world isn't like that but I suspect you're too young to realise that.