Brexit has created chaos in Britain – nobody voted for this

[sandyf]

22 hours ago, nauseus said:

You should have said something before - I've been saying the same thing regularly since the referendum.

I have said on many occasions that the vote was based on emotional delusion.

I suspect you are not going to agree on that, just it was not about business and the economy.

[transam]

2 minutes ago, sandyf said:

I have said on many occasions that the vote was based on emotional delusion.

I suspect you are not going to agree on that, just it was not about business and the economy.

That post takes the biscuit......

 

And you are not posting emotionally.......Gawd...

[sandyf]

14 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

I gather you support Scottish independence, i.e. you want Scotland to break away from a union of nations and find it's own way in the world, no matter what the financial consequences may be.

And yet you want the UK to stay under the rule of Brussels - right?

 

I'm genuinely interested to know why this view is shared by a lot of Scots - it seems contradictory to me.

There is nothing more contradictory than TM campaigning for an independent UK and in the same breath refusing to debate an independent Scotland.

Prior to the Scottish referendum the Scottish government published a 650 page white paper, I read it and would not have supported independence on that basis. With the change in circumstances the Scottish government should have the right to publish another white paper should they choose. The financial consequences would be laid out in the white paper, rather than random opinion.

Unfortunately autocracy beats democracy hands down every time.

 

BTW How comprehensive were the financial consequences in the brexit white paper.

[CG1 Blue]

2 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Sadly, like other threads on Brexit people have actually forgotten what Brexit was, if it happened, driven by David Cameron the leader of the league campaign.  Brexit meant triggering article 50 and we would leave the customs union and the single market. That was said plain and simple to everyone on national TV numerous times.

 

The reason we have this farce happening is quite simple after DC resigned, the leadership for the Tories was won by Teresa May. She as a remainer has thwarted what the people voted for, to leave and has run in circles until some people are actually forgetting, what the referendum was about. It was about leaving the customs union and the single market along with the EU membership.

 

In the period since the vote the establishment have done their very best with project fear and making the ‘so called negotiations’ as difficult as possible. Hearing some posters on here going on about “we didn’t vote for this”. You are right. We voted for a clean break from the EU. Now.

 

The whole hard and soft Brexit terms, seem to have been created as a smoke screen to keep the UK tied to the EU. There are no such things. It was out or in.

 

For those who are also claiming a second referendum it was stated many times, that it was a onetime referendum. Once we actually leave or if we ever do, then why not champion that cause say after 10 years and at least two governments. I rarely comment these days on Brexit as it has become boring, predictable and like an episode from one of the soaps in the UK, dreary and not what was expected.

 

TM for me has had her chance and failed miserably. Get out now and move over for someone who will do what the actual democratic referendum was about. Get out of the EU, the customs union and single market and be allowed to trade and run the country by elected politicians, rather than unelected ones in Brussels.

 

 

Spot on. Andrea Leadsome was the Leave candidate for PM, but I can only assume she was 'asked' to step down from the leadership contest by those in power, to ensure a Remainer got the top job. Given that most MPs are Remainers.

 

Leadsome was impressive in a few of the debates leading up to the referendum, and she might have made a better PM than May - but who knows.

 

In any case, I'm sure we'd be on a better path towards Brexit if we had a Leaver as PM.

 

 

[nauseus]

26 minutes ago, sandyf said:

I have said on many occasions that the vote was based on emotional delusion.

I suspect you are not going to agree on that, just it was not about business and the economy.

I was referring to my comment:

 

"But Remainers never get that fact that the leave vote was not about business or the economy, anyway".

[sandyf]

21 minutes ago, transam said:

That post takes the biscuit......

 

And you are not posting emotionally.......Gawd...

Something you should learn to follow.

 

Context

The parts of something written or spoken that immediately precede and follow a word or passage and clarify its meaning.

‘skilled readers use context to construct meaning from words as they are read’

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/context

[sandyf]

3 minutes ago, nauseus said:

I was referring to my comment:

 

"But Remainers never get that fact that the leave vote was not about business or the economy, anyway".

And I agreed, maybe I should have clarified by saying that this remainer got the fact.

 

I would think that the majority of remainers got the fact that those that voted for brexit had little thought for business and the economy. That will come with a decline in disposable income as a percentage of the workforce migrates to the agricultural, service and hospitality sectors.

[CG1 Blue]

6 minutes ago, sandyf said:

I would think that the majority of remainers got the fact that those that voted for brexit had little thought for business and the economy. That will come with a decline in disposable income as a percentage of the workforce migrates to the agricultural, service and hospitality sectors.

Have you and Doc Brown been out in the DeLorean again?

[nauseus]

Just now, sandyf said:

And I agreed, maybe I should have clarified by saying that this remainer got the fact.

 

I would think that the majority of remainers got the fact that those that voted for brexit had little thought for business and the economy. That will come with a decline in disposable income as a percentage of the workforce migrates to the agricultural, service and hospitality sectors.

I disagree that there was "little thought" for the economy by most leave voters. I think it was considered and I also think that it was acknowledged that there would be hardship, at least in the short-term. But the restoration of all power to the national government, without any EU influence, was the overriding consideration. The immigration issue, already there, was made far more important in 2016 by the mass influx due to Merkel's "open door" effects from 2015 - I think a lot of people were worried about forced quotas being imposed by the EU on member states - I can't blame anyone for not wanting that.

[Grouse]

58 minutes ago, sandyf said:

It would appear that the stock response to anything that does not go down well is to try and shoot the messenger.

Either the Japanese ambassador made the statement or he didn't, if people wish to convince themselves he didn't then that is up to them.

 

They could also try and ignore the message from Japan to the EU and UK concerning brexit.

http://www.mofa.go.jp/files/000185466.pdf

That's a first class piece; thanks!

 

The Japanese are precisely right.

[nauseus]

20 minutes ago, sandyf said:

And I agreed, maybe I should have clarified by saying that this remainer got the fact.

 

I would think that the majority of remainers got the fact that those that voted for brexit had little thought for business and the economy. That will come with a decline in disposable income as a percentage of the workforce migrates to the agricultural, service and hospitality sectors.

Whatever, it was nothing to do with your "emotional delusion", anyway.

[Grouse]

3 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

"I was given a suspension for using the word numpty (which I thought was an amusing word). I have NEVER used it since"

 

Very true, you immediately posted about your suspension (when it ended), and came up with another insulting term - and, IIRC, felt very pleased with yourself for doing so....

Yes, that's roughly correct

 

The problem is that I feel very strongly that Brexit is a really bad move

 

Now it is very hard to express this, in general terms, without upsetting someone.

 

You may be surprised to learn that I have no desire to upset or alienate anyone.

 

I used to insinuate that you were a fence sitter! I trust you weren't unduly upset?

 

So, in conclusion, it looks like adult, informed, articulate debate is not possible

 

Maybe pro Brexit people just want to talk amongst themselves?

 

I think I'll leave this for a while now.

[RuamRudy]

48 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

I gather you support Scottish independence, i.e. you want Scotland to break away from a union of nations and find it's own way in the world, no matter what the financial consequences may be.

And yet you want the UK to stay under the rule of Brussels - right?

 

I'm genuinely interested to know why this view is shared by a lot of Scots - it seems contradictory to me.

Hi - more than happy to answer but I am conscious that I have derailed this thread more than enough recently.

I have posted my response to a more appropriate thread.

 

[Grouse]

4 hours ago, nauseus said:

Er..........a bit self-contradictory there, Grouse.

In what way? I don't see it?

[vogie]

15 minutes ago, Grouse said:

In what way? I don't see it?

You said "I can take all the brickbats and insults anyone can throw at me"

 

Well obviously you can't, you throw rocks at brexiteers and when one throws a pebble back its like the start of Armageddon. All the member has done is to proove you and your new 'Bro' wrong and you don't like it, he has ruffled a few of your feathers, thats all.

 

Also it's very noble of you not to personally call me a moron, but don't forget you are saying that all brexiteers are morons, is that not contradictory?

[Grouse]

2 minutes ago, vogie said:

You said "I can take all the brickbats and insults anyone can throw at me"

 

Well obviously you can't, you throw rocks at brexiteers and when one throws a pebble back its like the start of Armageddon. All the member has done is to proove you and your new 'Bro' wrong and you don't like it, he has ruffled a few of your feathers, thats all.

 

Also it's very noble of you not to personally call me a moron, but don't forget you are saying that all brexiteers are morons, is that not contradictory?

It wasn't actually an insult that annoyed me it was being told to leave the thread. This because I didn't think riots in Paris are a major issue.

 

Go ahead and insult me as you see fit; no problem there

 

I truely believe that leaving the EU is moronic

 

However, and as stated frequently, not ALL Brexiters are morons but I do believe that a large majority are. If you wish, I am happy to say "a large majority of Brexiteers are morons"

 

For the record, several staunch Brexiteers on here are in no way moronic and give cogent arguments. I certainly include you, Nauseus and Aright in the well informed debating group. ?

[HAKAPALITA]

4 hours ago, billd766 said:

 

Grouse has been on my ignore list since the back end of last year. I got fed up with being called stupid, uneducated because I had not gone to university and as a Brexit voter I had no idea what I was talking about.

 

What Grouse cannot accept is democracy as his "side" didn't win the Brexit vote so in his small mind everybody who voted had no idea why they voted the way that they did and therefore were stupid.

 

I only see his posts now if somebody replies to him.

Mr Bill, you are from the generation who saved Norway from  the Germans , expect no respect from the entitled generation your nation gave birth too.  

[HAKAPALITA]

3 minutes ago, Grouse said:

It wasn't actually an insult that annoyed me it was being told to leave the thread. This because I didn't think riots in Paris are a major issue.

 

Go ahead and insult me as you see fit; no problem there

 

I truely believe that leaving the EU is moronic

 

However, and as stated frequently, not ALL Brexiters are morons but I do believe that a large majority are. If you wish, I am happy to say "a large majority of Brexiteers are morons"

 

For the record, several staunch Brexiteers on here are in no way moronic and give cogent arguments. I certainly include you, Nauseus and Aright in the well informed debating group. ?

Ah, The Chang Vest n Backward Hat English Teachers Society

[Grouse]

14 minutes ago, HAKAPALITA said:

Mr Bill, you are from the generation who saved Norway from  the Germans , expect no respect from the entitled generation your nation gave birth too.  

Since Narvik was 1940, are you suggesting he is 96 years old? If so, I will call him K Bill from here on ?

 

BTW are you by chance a Finnish cavalry man in the employ of the king of Sweden? Wikipedia seems to think you maybe?

Edited May 8, 2018 by Grouse

[CG1 Blue]

 

25 minutes ago, Grouse said:

For the record, several staunch Brexiteers on here are in no way moronic and give cogent arguments. I certainly include you, Nauseus and Aright in the well informed debating group.

I don't know whether to feel insulted or relieved to not be among the chosen few...

[Johnniey]

23 hours ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

I have seen these figures before, and I believe that they cannot provide a verifiable demographic regarding the vote in the Scottish Independence referendum; they are the projected figures concluded by Professor Ailsa Henderson of Edinburgh University in a study.

 

There is, as far as I know, no recorded, or at least published figures that show the number of votes posted yes or no, as a differential between those born in Scotland, and those not. There may well be some substance in her figures, but it is good to remember that they are purely speculative.

 

P.S ... it should also be remembered that only those qualified to vote actually voted, there was nothing unfair or underhand about the referendum 

Are you saying people that were not Scottish were allowed to vote in the referendum? Terrible if so. Like us voting on Thai politics.

[HAKAPALITA]

39 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Since Narvik was 1940, are you suggesting he is 96 years old? If so, I will call him K Bill from here on ?

 

BTW are you by chance a Finnish cavalry man in the employ of the king of Sweden? Wikipedia seems to think you maybe?

Are you a spin doctor for entitled Students.

[bristolboy]

12 minutes ago, Johnniey said:

Are you saying people that were not Scottish were allowed to vote in the referendum? Terrible if so. Like us voting on Thai politics.

No it's not. If you're a citizen of the UK and establish legal residence in Scotland, then you're entitled to vote in Scotland. There is no such thing as Scottish citizenship. But there is such a thing as Thai citizenship.

[Johnniey]

12 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

No it's not. If you're a citizen of the UK and establish legal residence in Scotland, then you're entitled to vote in Scotland. There is no such thing as Scottish citizenship. But there is such a thing as Thai citizenship.

Still not fair. I never said here was Sots citizenship.

 

OK, it's like me, being having Permanent Residency in Thailand being able to vote on such Thai matters.

 

Billionaires like JK Rowling giving millions to spread untruths to get Scotland to stay in the UK(for her own benefit) is wrong, the whole thing was a fix.

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

In what way? I don't see it?

Well it's no big deal for me but you asked this Q: "Have I ever called you or any other Brexiteer a numpty or a moron?" which seemed to imply that thought that you hadn't. Well you called many of us both names several times so the answer is yes. 

 

Then you said you got your suspension for using the 'N' word. So the second statement contradicted the initial Q. (sort of, in a roundabout kind of way, if you know what I mean). 

[soalbundy]

1 minute ago, nauseus said:

Well it's no big deal for me but you asked this Q: "Have I ever called you or any other Brexiteer a numpty or a moron?" which seemed to imply that thought that you hadn't. Well you called many of us both names several times so the answer is yes. 

 

Then you said you got your suspension for using the 'N' word. So the second statement contradicted the initial Q. (sort of, in a roundabout kind of way, if you know what I mean). 

you two are squabbling like two kids in the playground, stop being so sensitive, it just doesn't matter now does it.

[nauseus]

3 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

you two are squabbling like two kids in the playground, stop being so sensitive, it just doesn't matter now does it.

Ah take it easy nonya.

[soalbundy]

1 minute ago, nauseus said:

Ah take it easy nonya.

what is a nonya ? I ask foolishly, knowing I will regret the answer.

[malagateddy]

It wasn't actually an insult that annoyed me it was being told to leave the thread. This because I didn't think riots in Paris are a major issue.
 
Go ahead and insult me as you see fit; no problem there
 
I truely believe that leaving the EU is moronic
 
However, and as stated frequently, not ALL Brexiters are morons but I do believe that a large majority are. If you wish, I am happy to say "a large majority of Brexiteers are morons"
 
For the record, several staunch Brexiteers on here are in no way moronic and give cogent arguments. I certainly include you, Nauseus and Aright in the well informed debating group. [emoji846]

Grouse..just remember and spend a day in Govanhill..Glasgow..when you go on your travels.
Please give an honest report re the oh so wonderful multi culturism to people like myself..non Uni but Uni of Life.
See for yourself the utter shambles freedom of movement has done to a formally nice Glasgow area.!!
Yours..a non Uni punter[emoji6]

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[oldlakey]

3 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

what is a nonya ? I ask foolishly, knowing I will regret the answer.

A girly