9 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

Then post some evidence of this "take over".  We remain in control despite immigration, there is nothing to suggest our immigrants are attempting any kind of takeover, they are just looking for work, thanks for your concern though.

Who was the other Brit Idiot who declared Peace in Our Time..same thing.

11 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

Nonsense, I challenge you to name a more centralist UK paper, I would put money on you failing to be able to.

If you think the Independent is centralist it would be pointless trying to convince you otherwise.

1 hour ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

I replied to a post referencing Powell and countered the false claims made about my reply, there was some substance in all the posts, and obviously Powell is relevant to the Brexit debate as he was campaigning against it the first time round, so you should be able to see that it was actually quite unlike your own little passive aggressive nothing of a post., please do try to at least post things of substance instead of this inane attack reflex that is so common to your posts, it's really dull.

Hakapalita put up a just picture of Enoch then Kieran wrote about 10 lines of erroneous rubbish underneath it! 

4 hours ago, tebee said:

An article about why we are getting such a cr*p deal - apart from our negotiators being useless.

 

https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/politics/the-true-reason-britain-cannot-call-europes-bluff

And why is a crap deal being negotiated? Could it be due to the fact that the person surrendering to the Brussels Bureaucrats, is T May, a person who voted to remain in this so called union. In contrast to the British people who did not vote to remain in.  They did not vote for a so called soft Brexit, what they did vote for was:-

 

 

 

 

Yeh right on!!  It's not like the Brexit King Pin Boris Johnson was a remainer!.....  Oh dear, not only was he a keen remainer but he wrote many newspaper  articles explaining about the folly of leaving the EU.  According to your argument then, we can thank god that he ran away from the opportunity of being PM.  Still, clearly the May agenda was to keep any Brexiteers at arms length.  Probably silly to make Johnson FS and appoint passionate Brexiteer Davis in charge of negotiations.    Get it yet?

54 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Hakapalita put up a just picture of Enoch then Kieran wrote about 10 lines of erroneous rubbish underneath it! 

 

Then why have you only succeed to counter one detail of just one point?  Is it because you can't and the best you had were blind guesses that have already been exposed as being incorrect?

2 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

If you think the Independent is centralist it would be pointless trying to convince you otherwise.

 

So you can't name a more centralist paper then?

8 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

So you can't name a more centralist paper then?

Smisby News!  They are based in Ashby Del La Zouch and that is just about the dead centre of England.   Will that do 

10 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

Then why have you only succeed to counter one detail of just one point?  Is it because you can't and the best you had were blind guesses that have already been exposed as being incorrect?

You only put one point and that was wrong. The rest was just your own opinion of Powell. Here:

 

Powell spent his first 11 years as an MP condoning free immigration for the Commonwealth, he was questioned on it in 1956 and stated that he was against putting any control on immigration.  While he was Minister of Health he oversaw recruitment drives in the West Indies that brought the NHS staff.  In his campaign in the 1964 election he said, “I have set and always will set my face like flint against making any difference between one citizen of this country and another on grounds of his origin,”.  Then he stood for leader of the Tory party and lost, and lost badly, and it was then that he started voicing a racist opinion, to try to win some votes, you would have to have been a fool to have fallen for Powell's game, he was just a slimy politician. 

17 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

Yeh right on!!  It's not like the Brexit King Pin Boris Johnson was a remainer!.....  Oh dear, not only was he a keen remainer but he wrote many newspaper  articles explaining about the folly of leaving the EU.  According to your argument then, we can thank god that he ran away from the opportunity of being PM.  Still, clearly the May agenda was to keep any Brexiteers at arms length.  Probably silly to make Johnson FS and appoint passionate Brexiteer Davis in charge of negotiations.    Get it yet?

To Quote Ian Dunt

"We said it at the time and it remains true now: the greatest obstacle to Brexit is the quality of the people advocating for it."

8 minutes ago, tebee said:

To Quote Ian Dunt

"We said it at the time and it remains true now: the greatest obstacle to Brexit is the quality of the people advocating for it."

Looks like a misspelling. 

40 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

So you can't name a more centralist paper then?

I assume you mean centrist, rather than centralist?

In any case, tell me how centrist (or centralist if you prefer) the Independent is exactly, then I'll find you a competitor.

Just for fun I'll say The Daily Mail is more centrist than the Independent - let's see if you can prove otherwise.

5 hours ago, tebee said:

An article about why we are getting such a cr*p deal - apart from our negotiators being useless.

 

https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/politics/the-true-reason-britain-cannot-call-europes-bluff

This mess was foretold in the 'Good Book' ......'Now hear this, O foolish and senseless people, Who have eyes but do not see; Who have ears but do not hear. Let them speak no more.'

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

You only put one point and that was wrong. The rest was just your own opinion of Powell. Here:

 

Powell spent his first 11 years as an MP condoning free immigration for the Commonwealth, he was questioned on it in 1956 and stated that he was against putting any control on immigration.  While he was Minister of Health he oversaw recruitment drives in the West Indies that brought the NHS staff.  In his campaign in the 1964 election he said, “I have set and always will set my face like flint against making any difference between one citizen of this country and another on grounds of his origin,”.  Then he stood for leader of the Tory party and lost, and lost badly, and it was then that he started voicing a racist opinion, to try to win some votes, you would have to have been a fool to have fallen for Powell's game, he was just a slimy politician. 

In the Birmingham Speech he reiterated the commitment against treating British citizens differently based on the nationality or country of origin of their parents. 

 

2 hours ago, nontabury said:

And why is a crap deal being negotiated? Could it be due to the fact that the person surrendering to the Brussels Bureaucrats, is T May, a person who voted to remain in this so called union. In contrast to the British people who did not vote to remain in.  They did not vote for a so called soft Brexit, what they did vote for was:-

 

 

 

 

I reckon we should get unemployed people from Grimsby to negotiate the Brexit deal, and let the government concentrate on running the country.  If they haven’t reached a satisfactory arrangement, pass it over to the people of Swansea to have a go, and so on ad nauseam, if that has not already been reached

2 hours ago, nauseus said:

You only put one point and that was wrong. The rest was just your own opinion of Powell. Here:

 

Powell spent his first 11 years as an MP condoning free immigration for the Commonwealth, he was questioned on it in 1956 and stated that he was against putting any control on immigration.  While he was Minister of Health he oversaw recruitment drives in the West Indies that brought the NHS staff.  In his campaign in the 1964 election he said, “I have set and always will set my face like flint against making any difference between one citizen of this country and another on grounds of his origin,”.  Then he stood for leader of the Tory party and lost, and lost badly, and it was then that he started voicing a racist opinion, to try to win some votes, you would have to have been a fool to have fallen for Powell's game, he was just a slimy politician. 

 

Hardly, him being questioned on immigration in 1956 and the view he gave is one, him as minister of health overseeing the recruitment drives that brought Indian and West Indian NHS staff is another, that one was off admittedly, anyway that is the second point, what he said in the 1964 campaign was the third, him losing in the leadership election was the fourth and only the fifth is my opinion, an opinion formed on the previous four points. 

2 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

I assume you mean centrist, rather than centralist?

In any case, tell me how centrist (or centralist if you prefer) the Independent is exactly, then I'll find you a competitor.

Just for fun I'll say The Daily Mail is more centrist than the Independent - let's see if you can prove otherwise.

 

There's an easy test, find two people who are on the hard side of their political leaning, one on the left and one on the right, ask them what they like, the lefty wont like the Mail, the righty won't like the Guardian, but ask them about the Independent and neither will like it, there's no other paper in the UK that is so consistently unappealing to both the hard right and the hard left, therefor it is the most *centrist.

35 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

Hardly, him being questioned on immigration in 1956 and the view he gave is one, him as minister of health overseeing the recruitment drives that brought Indian and West Indian NHS staff is another, that one was off admittedly, anyway that is the second point, what he said in the 1964 campaign was the third, him losing in the leadership election was the fourth and only the fifth is my opinion, an opinion formed on the previous four points. 

It seems to me he took a pragmatic approach depending on his responsibilities.  As  Minister for Health, he did his best for the health service; as an MP he reported and spoke in accordance with the views of his constituents.  “A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds”

1 minute ago, StreetCowboy said:

It seems to me he took a pragmatic approach depending on his responsibilities.  As  Minister for Health, he did his best for the health service; as an MP he reported and spoke in accordance with the views of his constituents.  “A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds”

 

 Tell that to the thalidomide sufferers.

3 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

 Tell that to the thalidomide sufferers.

You’ll need to explain that to me.  

Seems Daniel Hannan isn’t to happy - of course it is everybody else who is at fault.

https://www.conservativehome.com/thecolumnists/2018/05/daniel-hannan-for-partisan-advantage-labour-demands-a-worst-of-all-worlds-brexit.html


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14 minutes ago, Orac said:

Seems Daniel Hannan isn’t to happy - of course it is everybody else who is at fault.

https://www.conservativehome.com/thecolumnists/2018/05/daniel-hannan-for-partisan-advantage-labour-demands-a-worst-of-all-worlds-brexit.html


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Stop grizling and govern.  If you can’t govern, let someone else do the job.  The British people betrayed themselves by electing the current government in a manifesto to deliver Brexit when it was clear that few people really wanted it, and now they have little choice but to plunge over the cliff that they have chosen.  In the long run, I’m sure it will be fine, and I am hopeful my children will live to see that day

3 minutes ago, StreetCowboy said:

Stop grizling and govern.  If you can’t govern, let someone else do the job.  The British people betrayed themselves by electing the current government in a manifesto to deliver Brexit when it was clear that few people really wanted it, and now they have little choice but to plunge over the cliff that they have chosen.  In the long run, I’m sure it will be fine, and I am hopeful my children will live to see that day

 

“Few people”... = 17.4m

 

 

14 minutes ago, StreetCowboy said:

Stop grizling and govern.  If you can’t govern, let someone else do the job.  The British people betrayed themselves by electing the current government in a manifesto to deliver Brexit when it was clear that few people really wanted it, and now they have little choice but to plunge over the cliff that they have chosen.  In the long run, I’m sure it will be fine, and I am hopeful my children will live to see that day

Hannan is an MEP. No real power to govern.

 

Your comment about the British people is strange. Should they have voted Labour?

7 hours ago, tebee said:

To Quote Ian Dunt

"We said it at the time and it remains true now: the greatest obstacle to Brexit is the quality of the people advocating for it."

 

This guy is brilliant; Listen!

 

We would get on great, what with me being a total Celt!

 

All we need is JRM to join us ?

8 hours ago, StreetCowboy said:

You’ll need to explain that to me.  

 

His actions when the effects of Thalidomide became known point to him not doing his best for the health service while Minister of Health.

 

Quote

As minister of health from 1960 to 1963, Powell said no to a public inquiry into the origins of the Distaval (thalidomide) atrocity and no to every request made by a delegation of affected parents in January 1963. Powell said no to immediately setting up a drug-testing centre, as “anyone taking an aspirin puts himself at risk”. He refused to even set eyes on a thalidomide child. He said no to giving a statement afterwards: “no need to bring the press into this”.

Perhaps most damningly, Powell said no to a public warning against using any of the pills that might still be in medicine cabinets – “a scaremonger publicity stunt”. The drug was never banned; just withdrawn for further tests. Many more babies were born needlessly affected by the drug precisely because there were pills still on pharmacists’ shelves being dispensed – in family medicine cabinets and even in drawers in doctors’ surgeries.

“Powell’s intransigence left the families with only one remedy, to sue the manufacturers for negligence,” wrote Harold Evans in My Paper Chase, his autobiography. We now know what that meant in effect. Distillers’ lawyers were able to drag their heels for 10 years until Evans and his Insight team at the Sunday Times broke the story to the British public. The parents were victims as much as their children, and many broke under the strain of the long wait for compensation. Distillers eventually settled, but out of court.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/feb/11/it-isnt-just-racism-that-should-bar-enoch-powell-from-a-blue-plaque

7 hours ago, Jip99 said:

 

“Few people”... = 17.4m

 

 

 

Out of 46.9 million, about a third.

8 hours ago, StreetCowboy said:

Stop grizling and govern.  If you can’t govern, let someone else do the job.  The British people betrayed themselves by electing the current government in a manifesto to deliver Brexit when it was clear that few people really wanted it, and now they have little choice but to plunge over the cliff that they have chosen.  In the long run, I’m sure it will be fine, and I am hopeful my children will live to see that day

But the British people didn't elect the current government at the last election - it ended up in a hung parliament. They are only in charge because of a very dubious alliance.   That if  nothing else should suggest some reflection and compromise is needed.

Now even the Leave Alliance are admitting Brexit has degenerated into an unholy mess .

 

http://www.eureferendum.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=86867

Scottish parliament likely to reject EU withdrawal bill

 

"Majority of MSPs expected to reject bill due to concerns over UK government's plans for sharing EU powers after Brexit"