Brexit has created chaos in Britain – nobody voted for this

[aright]

9 hours ago, SheungWan said:

Camden Lock Market??? I guess you need to replenish your wardrobe of second-hand ripped Levi jeans. Not exactly Ye Olde Englande though and Brexit supporters about 0.5% around there. BTW, I have an address in the London Borough of Camden (fortunately on the fringe and well away from the Lock tourist trap). Do drop in sometime.

Thanks for your kind invitation. Unfortunately I don't like Blue Nun.   

I'm here for the wedding. I'm in the third Landau if you are watching.

Drinks with Madge....can't wait

Edited May 13, 2018 by aright
addition

[Ahab]

16 hours ago, Grouse said:

Then you should read some history! If Chamberlain had not bought time we would have lost the war! The Americans only joined in 3 years later,  after Germany declared war on the USA. Where were they when we were fighting off German invasion? ( making money probably).

 

All sensible people understood that the Iran agreement was a holding pattern to stop nuclear warhead development while the  Iranian people recovered their economy and became strong enough to oust the Republican Guards and extrem right wing Mullahs. I wouldn't expect isolationist America to understand that. ?

The US sending Britain supplies to help keep their country free of German occupation is what kept the UK from losing the war, not a worthless peace of paper that proved to Hitler that Britain would not stop his aggression in Europe. I also disagree with your statement that "all sensible people understood that the Iran agreement was a holding pattern to stop warhead development." That is what the deal was sold as, but the inspection procedures and other limitations actually ensures that Iran will develop a warhead capability while complying with the "deal". I also totally reject your idea that Chamberlain signed the peace agreement with Nazi Germany in order to buy time and get organized so something such as Dunkirk could be avoided. Signing agreements out of weakness is not a very good strategy, never has been and probably never will be.

[tebee]

What’s great about Brexit is despite huge state legal and administrative costs, the job losses, business closures & trade downturn it will cause, the threat to N Ireland peace the possible breakup of the UK & a more narrow, divided, xenophobic country it’s all worth it because, because...what you staring at?....

[RuamRudy]

12 hours ago, nontabury said:

15 hours ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

Maybe Argentina should 'take back control' of 'their' island. An impoverished Britain with denuded armed forces may not get the same result next time. Have always felt we have spent over 2 billion quid and many lives to save what is in essence a pretty worthless village. So Falklands, Gibraltar , Northern Ireland , the integrity of the UK yet more potential sacrifices on the altar , nay bonfire  of misguided , ill-informed outdated nationalism. 

To hell with the inhabitants. Typical statement from a selfish remoaner.

I don't think that beautifulthailand99 was actually advocating leaving any of them high and dry, but regardless - the economic impact of Brexit on the Falkland islanders is significant; what have you got to offer them in the way of assurances other than overt jingoism and a feeling that 'we are all in this together'?

 

[Grouse]

7 hours ago, aright said:

 

Not solely conscience also his aims and ambitions on behalf of  his party. Read more slowly.

We have moved on from the shot down arguments, MPs know more than the man in the street, and the contention, that the man in the street has no business concerns, to questioning the principles of, in the case of my MP, someone you don't even know. I don't even know you yet you also think you know my root and branch reasons for voting for him. 

You seem very good at asking questions but not answering them so I will repeat the question. What formula would you want to apply when an MP's conscience is at odds with the opinions of the majority of his constituents?

When did  you last speak to your British MP?. I have spoken to mine 4.2 times in the last 12 mths.

 

If you aren't prepared to answer the questions don't bother replying.

 

 

I have answered this in detail in previous emails. The opinion of a majority of constituents is irrelevant. Vote the MP out next time. That is the UK system 

[Grouse]

6 hours ago, Ahab said:

The US sending Britain supplies to help keep their country free of German occupation is what kept the UK from losing the war, not a worthless peace of paper that proved to Hitler that Britain would not stop his aggression in Europe. I also disagree with your statement that "all sensible people understood that the Iran agreement was a holding pattern to stop warhead development." That is what the deal was sold as, but the inspection procedures and other limitations actually ensures that Iran will develop a warhead capability while complying with the "deal". I also totally reject your idea that Chamberlain signed the peace agreement with Nazi Germany in order to buy time and get organized so something such as Dunkirk could be avoided. Signing agreements out of weakness is not a very good strategy, never has been and probably never will be.

Then you are incorrect and poorly informed.

 

Firstly, the Americans only joined the war when Hitler declared war on them about 3 years later. Thank you for the supplies you sold us, in fact much of our supplies came from our Empire.

 

The fact is that we desperately needed time to build stocks of Spitfires and Hurricanes and get the Radar system in place. Without those, the U.K. Would have fallen to Germany in 1940.   The BEF was futile against blitzkrieg; it was the Battle of Britain that inflicted defeat on Hitler and forced home to March east instead and launch Barbarossa.

 

As to the Iran deal, read my piece on the other threads; you may learn something.

 

I am responding to you again but this is off topic. 

[HAKAPALITA]

6 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Then you are incorrect and poorly informed.

 

Firstly, the Americans only joined the war when Hitler declared war on them about 3 years later. Thank you for the supplies you sold us, in fact much of our supplies came from our Empire.

 

The fact is that we desperately needed time to build stocks of Spitfires and Hurricanes and get the Radar system in place. Without those, the U.K. Would have fallen to Germany in 1940.   The BEF was futile against blitzkrieg; it was the Battle of Britain that inflicted defeat on Hitler and forced home to March east instead and launch Barbarossa.

 

As to the Iran deal, read my piece on the other threads; you may learn something.

 

I am responding to you again but this is off topic. 

Its near impossible to tell some younger ones facts Mr Grouse, but your spot on.

[tebee]

OK I've linked to this guy a few times recently - that is because he seems to be one of the few on the leave side who realizes just what a pile of s*ht this government is getting us into without any clue of how we will ever get out.

 

Now he gives a rather scathing dissection of Theresa May's leadership style and seeming complete lack of understanding of the current situation - is she really as stupid as she seems ?

 

 http://www.eureferendum.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=86870

[billd766]

13 hours ago, StreetCowboy said:

Business concerns are the responsibility of the businessman.??I trust that the MP that you elected can take on board your helpful suggestions, and reconcile them with the dogma of his party and his own conscience regarding matters of government.  If not, you have made a mistake in electing him.

 

However the MP that represent the particular constituency may not be the candidate you voted for. What do you do then?

 

For example, you vote Conservative and the Labour or Lib Dem gets in (or the other way around) who has views opposed to yours and ignores your suggestions. Who do you appeal to?

[Orac]

OK I've linked to this guy a few times recently - that is because he seems to be one of the few on the leave side who realizes just what a pile of s*ht this government is getting us into without any clue of how we will ever get out.
 
Now he gives a rather scathing dissection of Theresa May's leadership style and seeming complete lack of understanding of the current situation - is she really as stupid as she seems ?
 
 http://www.eureferendum.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=86870

He knows his stuff!

Also worth noting that he has been heavily critical of the EU in the past and worked at the EU Parliament as a Research Director for the group UKIP was a part of so hardly a typical ‘remoaner’.

Interesting review on the book he co-wrote here which includes:

“The argument is that British membership in the EU is a “slow-motion coup d’etat” with an “agenda of subordination” to invasive centralised regulation that is economically harmful to the UK.”

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Deception:_Can_the_European_Union_Survive%3F



Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[RuamRudy]

14 hours ago, nontabury said:

To hell with the inhabitants. Typical statement from a selfish remoaner.

On further consideration - the Falklands islanders, who are not affected by English immigration concerns, but with 2 thirds of their economy based on exports to EU countries, were not even afforded a vote in the referendum. They are facing the very real prospect of the principle source of revenue for their economy disappearing because a majority of people in England want to leave the EU. Tell me again about selfishness?

[beautifulthailand99]

1 hour ago, RuamRudy said:

I don't think that beautifulthailand99 was actually advocating leaving any of them high and dry, but regardless - the economic impact of Brexit on the Falkland islanders is significant; what have you got to offer them in the way of assurances other than overt jingoism and a feeling that 'we are all in this together'?

 

Well said I couldn't have put it better myself. All Brexit seems to offer now at one end is bonehead , xenophobic , flag waving , doff-capping nationalism and at the other ever increasing fantastical, untested Heath Robinson like solutions proposed by some of the most egotistic , shifty, unreliable politicians.  There is a solution starting us all in the face - call the whole bloody thing off and take back control !

[beautifulthailand99]

16 minutes ago, Orac said:

 

 

He knows his stuff!

Also worth noting that he has been heavily critical of the EU in the past and worked at the EU Parliament as a Research Director for the group UKIP was a part of so hardly a typical ‘remoaner’.

Interesting review on the book he co-wrote here which includes:

“The argument is that British membership in the EU is a “slow-motion coup d’etat” with an “agenda of subordination” to invasive centralised regulation that is economically harmful to the UK.”

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Deception:_Can_the_European_Union_Survive%3F



Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

facts , eh pesky things facts - better to go with your gut instinct - trouble is I fear we are in an imminent diarrheal situation. 

[beautifulthailand99]

9 hours ago, aright said:

 

Not solely conscience also his aims and ambitions on behalf of  his party. Read more slowly.

We have moved on from the shot down arguments, MPs know more than the man in the street, and the contention, that the man in the street has no business concerns, to questioning the principles of, in the case of my MP, someone you don't even know. I don't even know you yet you also think you know my root and branch reasons for voting for him. 

You seem very good at asking questions but not answering them so I will repeat the question. What formula would you want to apply when an MP's conscience is at odds with the opinions of the majority of his constituents?

When did  you last speak to your British MP?. I have spoken to mine 4.2 times in the last 12 mths.

 

If you aren't prepared to answer the questions don't bother replying.

 

 

what was the .2 times about 

[The Renegade]

The UK Government spent £9 million sending out a leaflet to every household.

 

Here it is 

 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/515068/why-the-government-believes-that-voting-to-remain-in-the-european-union-is-the-best-decision-for-the-uk.pdf

 

Why is that so many people have difficulty in understanding

 

Quote

The  Referendum leaflet spelled out quite clearly that a vote to leave the EU would mean leaving the Single Market and by extension the Customs Union.

Quote

This is your decision. The Government will implement what you decide. If you’re aged 18 or over by 23rd June and are entitled to vote, this is your chance to decide.

It really is not that difficult to understand.

 

What it really boils down to is that we do not like the result, so let's invent lot's of garbage to try and get the result changed.

[Kieran00001]

8 hours ago, Ahab said:

The US sending Britain supplies to help keep their country free of German occupation is what kept the UK from losing the war, not a worthless peace of paper that proved to Hitler that Britain would not stop his aggression in Europe. I also disagree with your statement that "all sensible people understood that the Iran agreement was a holding pattern to stop warhead development." That is what the deal was sold as, but the inspection procedures and other limitations actually ensures that Iran will develop a warhead capability while complying with the "deal". I also totally reject your idea that Chamberlain signed the peace agreement with Nazi Germany in order to buy time and get organized so something such as Dunkirk could be avoided. Signing agreements out of weakness is not a very good strategy, never has been and probably never will be.

 

Did the supplies that the US sent to the Nazi's also help to keep our country free of German occupation?  No, and it did help them to process the Jews that they were killing, great war effort Americans, so glad you were on board before you were threatened.

[Bill Miller]

"Jun 14, 2016 - Brexit would bring chaos, fear and emergency measures in its first 100 days, experts predict ."
From "The Independent", which at the least gives the lie to the headline of the OP. here.
SOMEBODY predicted it. 
 

[aright]

2 hours ago, Grouse said:

I have answered this in detail in previous emails. The opinion of a majority of constituents is irrelevant. Vote the MP out next time. That is the UK system 

No it's not. As I pointed out in an earlier post he is employed by definition to represent the interests of his constituents not his conscience. The one thing the man in the street is able to do before an election is get a fairly good handle on his political and social interests ; no chance where his conscience is concerned . Voting him out after he voted to go to war against the interests of the majority of his constituents provides no succour for the dead

My final word back on topic.

[stevenl]

42 minutes ago, aright said:

No it's not. As I pointed out in an earlier post he is employed by definition to represent the interests of his constituents not his conscience. The one thing the man in the street is able to do before an election is get a fairly good handle on his political and social interests ; no chance where his conscience is concerned . Voting him out after he voted to go to war against the interests of the majority of his constituents provides no succour for the dead

My final word back on topic.

"against the interests of the majority"

You mean "against the opinion of the majority". Yes, that happens sometimes, that is why this representative was chosen. Don't like it, vote somebody else in.

[CG1 Blue]

On ‎12‎/‎05‎/‎2018 at 11:42 AM, Grouse said:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/brexit-racism-religious-intolerance-united-nations-special-rapporteur-a8348021.html

 

I told you the UK was getting nastier

"Racism and religious intolerance has become more acceptable in Britain in the wake of the Brexit referendum, a United Nations expert has warned."

 

Typical left wing anti-Brexit <deleted>, and gleefully lapped up by that bastion of unbiased reporting The 'Independent'.

 

Perhaps terrorist attacks (such as the bombing at a teen concert in Manchester) and rape gangs across the UK have had something to do with the increase in racial and religious intolerance?

 

 

 

[SheungWan]

3 hours ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

Did the supplies that the US sent to the Nazi's also help to keep our country free of German occupation?  No, and it did help them to process the Jews that they were killing, great war effort Americans, so glad you were on board before you were threatened.

Maybe you would like to kick off with British trade with the Nazis prior to the UK entering the War in 1939.

[CG1 Blue]

On ‎12‎/‎05‎/‎2018 at 6:30 PM, beautifulthailand99 said:

No problem my friend - so prepare to doff your cap and bend over for those born to rule ....

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/state-school-pupils-are-potted-plants-says-tory-418767.html

 

He is a hyper wealthy nasty piece of work who can't believe his current popularity bolstered in large part by working class Brexiters who think he speaks for them but like fellow Etonian Boris he speaks only for himself , his class and his interests. Wake up sheeple you are being played royally at least Thais are brainwashed by the state and have 112 to keep them in line. Brits have no excuse for not being better informed. 

 

It always surprises me how some have such a lot of hatred for successful people, and for some reason think wealthy people should not run the country. Maybe you think a bricklayer or a shelf stacker at Tesco would make a better PM. Or perhaps someone who is skint and in loads of debt.

[SheungWan]

3 hours ago, The Renegade said:

What it really boils down to is that we do not like the result, so let's invent lot's of garbage to try and get the result changed.

Irrelevant whether result is liked or not liked. UK Parliament can hold another election any time it chooses.

[SheungWan]

3 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

It always surprises me how some have such a lot of hatred for successful people, and for some reason think wealthy people should not run the country. Maybe you think a bricklayer or a shelf stacker at Tesco would make a better PM. Or perhaps someone who is skint and in loads of debt.

Some just like to say the word 'sheeple'.

[beautifulthailand99]

Just now, CG1 Blue said:

It always surprises me how some have such a lot of hatred for successful people, and for some reason think wealthy people should not run the country. Maybe you think a bricklayer or a shelf stacker at Tesco would make a better PM. Or perhaps someone who is skint and in loads of debt.

I'll consider your cap doffed - daddy was very rich and influential as well though only from the upper middle class but carved out his niche as editor of the Times. Far more time for ex barrow boy Alan Sugar and his ilk who fought his way to wealth and  who made it despite his class rather than these entitled, Eton educated  couldn't give a fig for the average Brit . And believe JRM is ploughing his own furrow for his own ends and whatever the outcome he will be super wealthy. Same goes for your other Brexit standard bearer BoJo - but he comes with added sleaze. 

 

[Kieran00001]

28 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

Maybe you would like to kick off with British trade with the Nazis prior to the UK entering the War in 1939.

 

Oh look a duck... obviously that has nothing to do with what we were talking about, which was American trade helping keep the Germans out of Britain, which was a bit of a red herring considering they were supplying both sides.

[SheungWan]

31 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

Maybe you would like to kick off with British trade with the Nazis prior to the UK entering the War in 1939.

 

1 minute ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

Oh look a duck... obviously that has nothing to do with what we were talking about, which was American trade helping keep the Germans out of Britain, which was a bit of a red herring considering they were supplying both sides.

You mean like UK trade with Nazi Germany keeping the Germans out of Czechoslovakia prior to 1939?

[Kieran00001]

31 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

It always surprises me how some have such a lot of hatred for successful people, and for some reason think wealthy people should not run the country. Maybe you think a bricklayer or a shelf stacker at Tesco would make a better PM. Or perhaps someone who is skint and in loads of debt.

 

Yes, when what we really need is someone like Rees-Mogg, we need more people in parliament whose financial interests control their voting patterns, how would someone who was not wealthy know how to vote if it didn't benefit them personally?  In some countries he would be in prison, in the UK there are plebs sticking up for him, unbelievable! 

[oldhippy]

22 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

It always surprises me how some have such a lot of hatred for successful people, and for some reason think wealthy people should not run the country. Maybe you think a bricklayer or a shelf stacker at Tesco would make a better PM. Or perhaps someone who is skint and in loads of debt.

Personally I don't hate successfull people, unless they owe their succes to dodgy dealings or inheritance.....

About your bricklayer / shelf stacker comment: do you think they should have equal voting rights as the Eton educated? Or perhaps voting rights based on the amount of tax paid?

[Kieran00001]

2 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

 

You mean like UK trade with Nazi Germany keeping the Germans out of Czechoslovakia prior to 1939?

 

Sure, without everyone's trade the Nazi's would not have been as powerful, the Czechs could argue what you are saying, but the British can argue against the claim of the Americans, as their trade continued right up until they joined the effort, it made no difference to them that the Nazis were being investigated by the Red Cross for potential genocide, they kept on supplying them with machines to process the Jews, they really didn't care at all, so it is not really tasteful of them to boast about their war efforts.