Brexit has created chaos in Britain – nobody voted for this

[Kieran00001]

4 minutes ago, vogie said:

 

 

Oh that old misquote.  He did say those things, but he didn't say them together and he didn't say either of them in the House of Commons in 1953.  The first part is from an interview with an American newspaper in 1930, by the time the war was over he felt very differently indeed.  And the part about the open seas he said in 1944 to Charles de Gaul the day before the Normandy landings, he was clearly very upset about that.  But put them together and put a date on them to imply that they were about his United States of Europe and the Brexiteers will believe it, it's really sad to see Churchill be so misrepresented.

[aright]

5 hours ago, Grouse said:

Interesting that Italians have the fortitude to take a tough line with Brussels but we were too weak to do so. We should be staying in and changing the EU from within also 

Do you mind if I change your chosen words slightly.

Interesting that extreme right wing parties have the fortitude to take a tough line with Brussels but fortunately/unfortunately, dependant on your point of view, we have no extreme right wing parties.

[Kieran00001]

Are there no depths that the Brexiteers will sink to for their agenda?  A total disrespect for Churchill of all people, how dare they!

[aright]

5 hours ago, soalbundy said:

Racist? what's wrong with having a black baby?

Not miserable, it's just all over the top with plenty of pathos, it's just a wedding for christs sake get over it. Fun, happiness and laughter, I get that without watching two spongers getting married.

Simples! Don't watch it but don't be so curmudgeonly as to spoil other peoples enjoyment of it.

You can choose to live in what ever world you want to but don't try telling me where I should live.

For me, friends and family, it was a thoroughly enjoyable, brilliant day. 

[Kieran00001]

2 minutes ago, aright said:

Do you mind if I change your chosen words slightly.

Interesting that extreme right wing parties have the fortitude to take a tough line with Brussels but fortunately/unfortunately, dependant on your point of view, we have no extreme right wing parties.

 

All the far right are in the same Group, Europe of Freedom and Direct Democracy, the same one as UKIP, and almost all of them are from either  Italy's M5S  or UKIP,  they only just managed to find a far right MEP from enough other countries to make up the minimum 25% of member state representation requirement to form a group, but since UKIP and M5S have not been getting along the group is in jeopardy and no one else wants them, the far right is far from popular in the EU parliament and are on their way out, unlike what the right leaning press implies.

[beautifulthailand99]

4 hours ago, Grouse said:

Well let's put it down to different experiences. As a consultant engineer I deal with global standards and the EU are at the top of the tree. The UK is very good at enforcing many but not all of them. I genuinely worry that these might be relaxed post Brexit.

 

Its not my field (?) but at least the egg scandal was dealt with promptly

 

The VW "scandal" is a nonsense which was discussed at length on here a month ago.

 

To what "beef scandal" do you refer?

 

Finally bank and scandal are almost synonymous ?

You are an 'expert' Grouse with 'facts' , cogent arguments , informed opinion and no doubt a successful career and life against an army of flag toting malcontents puffed up with having 'stuck it to the man' . The feeling they got made them feel very big on that inglorious day nearly 2 years ago, all of a sudden the wrongs they have suffered in life were righted and that gaping chip on their shoulder seemed miraculously healed. To give up that feeling now in the face of a barrage of information that strongly indicates we are on a course of destruction would be to admit failure and sink back into the slough of despair from which they voted. They would rather crash the car with us all in it rather than change course. I don't blame them 'for they know not what they do ' and have been royally 'played' by a bunch of arrogant , spivs, egotists and chancers but the political class who collectively who should  know better are ineffectual , leaderless  cowards and sleepwalking  us to a Suez type crisis and possibly worse situation. Maybe this is just the way it is, empires rise and fall , social democracy and the national consensus is dying ,every dog has it's day and darker days are around the corner, cheered on by the mob who have 'taken back control'. 

 

Good morning - a chill in the air and our hearts as we wake up in Blighty...

[aright]

14 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

All the far right are in the same Group, Europe of Freedom and Direct Democracy, the same one as UKIP, and almost all of them are from either  Italy's M5S  or UKIP,  they only just managed to find a far right MEP from enough other countries to make up the minimum 25% of member state representation requirement to form a group, but since UKIP and M5S have not been getting along the group is in jeopardy and no one else wants them, the far right is far from popular in the EU parliament and are on their way out, unlike what the right leaning press implies.

You are right the far right isn't a big force in the European Parliament (yet) but as can be seen from member states general elections, they are a growing and significant force especially in the recent Italian election. In 40 odd years MEP's haven't changed anything of significance. Any changes inside the tent will likely happen at the insistence of the member states. There is no middle of the road political party or movement trying to change the EU's governance at the moment. It has been left to extreme right wingers and as a result they bring right wing solutions to the table.

[The Renegade]

7 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

As a consultant engineer

 

7 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

You are an 'expert' Grouse with 'facts' ,

I am a sky diving, life saving paramedic, who wrestles bears in his spare time, whilst simultaneously climbing Everest in shorts and flip-flops.

 

In my spare time I don my Superman suit and make movies, dive off cliffs and swim shark infested waters to give a certain lady a lot more than a box of black magic chocolates.

 

Claims made from behind a keyboard are not '' Facts ''

 

 

[bristolboy]

2 hours ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

It makes some sense, it enables transactions to be free from charges and easier to complete, it aids trade.  However it has not gone well, it all happened so fast and without any safety measures, it has been a disaster for many, but it could have been done differently, gradually and only when each nation was definitely ready, but I expect there were some who did not want that, who pushed for the rapid rolling out as they saw ways to profit from the turmoil it would cause.

It's fundamentally flawed. You can't have a united monetary policy without a united fiscal policy. We have seen how it works out when this is not the case. Germany gets the benefit of an artificially low rate of exchange because of the weakness of some other members of the Eurozone. The troubled members of the Eurozone have to suffer the grindingly slow effects of deflation to gradually adjust their economies. There's no way around that.

And there's absolutely no basis for saying that transactions are somehow meaningfully impeded by different currencies. That wasn't an issue even before high speed calculators were invented. Doesnt't seem to have slowed Poland's economy down. 

[Kieran00001]

1 minute ago, aright said:

You are right the far right isn't a big force in the European Parliament (yet) but as can be seen from member states general elections, they are a growing and significant force especially in the recent Italian election. In 40 odd years MEP's haven't changed anything of significance. Any changes inside the tent will likely happen at the insistence of the member states. There is no middle of the road political party or movement trying to change the EU's governance at the moment. It has been left to extreme right wingers and as a result they bring right wing solutions to the table.

 

To bring right wing solutions they have to be at the table, that is the point, Italy's surge in far right support can never be enough alone to form a Group in the EU, they need representation from 7 member states, and they are about to lose one, the UK which also looses them half of their MEP's, they will be lucky to form another group.

 

[nauseus]

9 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

You are an 'expert' Grouse with 'facts' , cogent arguments , informed opinion and no doubt a successful career and life against an army of flag toting malcontents puffed up with having 'stuck it to the man' . The feeling they got made them feel very big on that inglorious day nearly 2 years ago, all of a sudden the wrongs they have suffered in life were righted and that gaping chip on their shoulder seemed miraculously healed. To give up that feeling now in the face of a barrage of information that strongly indicates we are on a course of destruction would be to admit failure and sink back into the slough of despair from which they voted. They would rather crash the car with us all in it rather than change course. I don't blame them 'for they know not what they do ' and have been royally 'played' by a bunch of arrogant , spivs, egotists and chancers but the political class who collectively who should  know better are ineffectual , leaderless  cowards and sleepwalking  us to a Suez type crisis and possibly worse situation. Maybe this is just the way it is, empires rise and fall , social democracy and the national consensus is dying ,every dog has it's day and darker days are around the corner, cheered on by the mob who have 'taken back control'. 

 

Good morning - a chill in the air and our hearts as we wake up in Blighty...

You should have stayed in bed by the sound of it. 

 

 

[aright]

1 minute ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

To bring right wing solutions they have to be at the table, that is the point, Italy's surge in far right support can never be enough alone to form a Group in the EU, they need representation from 7 member states, and they are about to lose one, the UK which also looses them half of their MEP's, they will be lucky to form another group.

 

My point is the EU will not be changed directly by the European Parliament. Change for what ever reason will happen as a result of dissatisfaction within the member states manifested by election results, threatened referendums, non compliance with directives, non payment of dues etc. The Commission have made no adjustments to its governance as a result of Brexit, it will be interesting to see what they do when Italy starts making demands.

[beautifulthailand99]

12 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

 

I am a sky diving, life saving paramedic, who wrestles bears in his spare time, whilst simultaneously climbing Everest in shorts and flip-flops.

 

In my spare time I don my Superman suit and make movies, dive off cliffs and swim shark infested waters to give a certain lady a lot more than a box of black magic chocolates.

 

Claims made from behind a keyboard are not '' Facts ''

 

 

I nearly believed you for a minute and was about to thank you for your life saving skills and then I re-read....that said Grouse for my few baht's worth is the best informed guy on here and I thoroughly enjoy his robust,informed arguments when I should actually be doing something else.....

[beautifulthailand99]

12 minutes ago, nauseus said:

You should have stayed in bed by the sound of it. 

 

 

got a monk's house blessing then house party coming up next Sunday so lot's of work to do to get it ready....

[transam]

14 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

 

I am a sky diving, life saving paramedic, who wrestles bears in his spare time, whilst simultaneously climbing Everest in shorts and flip-flops.

 

In my spare time I don my Superman suit and make movies, dive off cliffs and swim shark infested waters to give a certain lady a lot more than a box of black magic chocolates.

 

Claims made from behind a keyboard are not '' Facts ''

 

 

Grouse in his youthfulness....

 

[Eloquent pilgrim]

3 hours ago, soalbundy said:

No, it's possible, you obviously aren't comfortable with the idea, must be white because she's royal, whose being racist.

Well, that would be you, as anyone reading your comment can deduce.

 

A young couple have just got married, he a white caucasian, and she, a light skinned woman of mixed race, and you suggest they will have a ginger haired black baby, and you don’t think this is a racist comment. However, it is not just the racial aspect of your comment, you then go on to mock the man’s dead mother by suggesting the baby will be a girl, and that she will be called Diana.

 

I have read hundreds of comments on this thread, some I agree with, some I disagree with, some amusing, some confusing and some irksome, but I had not read one that made me genuinely feel disgust, but yours did.

[The Renegade]

6 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

that said Grouse for my few baht's worth is the best informed guy on here

Well, you know how much a few baht is worth.

 

I am sure he will be delighted how highly you appreciate him.

Edited May 20, 2018 by The Renegade

[Eloquent pilgrim]

6 hours ago, soalbundy said:

Racist? what's wrong with having a black baby?

Errr, well, absolutely nothing if you are two black parents; but you are suggesting that a white caucasian man, and a light skinned woman of mixed race will have a black baby with ginger hair. What on earth were you thinking of to write such tasteless bile

Edited May 20, 2018 by Eloquent pilgrim

[beautifulthailand99]

6 minutes ago, transam said:

Grouse in his youthfulness....

 

don't want to upset Grouse but he will know this already ..

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/may/20/secret-brexit-deal-scotch-whisky-threat-us-imports

[Orac]

My point is the EU will not be changed directly by the European Parliament. Change for what ever reason will happen as a result of dissatisfaction within the member states manifested by election results, threatened referendums, non compliance with directives, non payment of dues etc. The Commission have made no adjustments to its governance as a result of Brexit, it will be interesting to see what they do when Italy starts making demands.

Best bet is probably pop out for a light lunch and just wait for the next Italian govt to turn up.

Clearly there are issues that Italy wants addressing but politically they have always been a bit of a basket case which puts a huge drag their ability to actually effect change on a domestic front, let alone the political stability needed to push through EU reform.


Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[beautifulthailand99]

6 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

Well, you know how much a few baht is worth.

 

I am sure he will be delighted how highly you appreciate him.

quite a loss less than it did and probably more haircuts to come...tis only money though - the love of which is the root of all evil apparently. Which would explain a lot about Thailand.

[The Renegade]

9 minutes ago, aright said:

My point is the EU will not be changed directly by the European Parliament.

The European Parliament is nothing more than an exercise in rubber stamping everything the European Commission puts in front of it.

 

Change in the EU for the President of the EC, Junck the Drunk is more EU and give us more money. That is all they have, more EU, more EU, failing to understand that more EU is the very thing that is going to make it go boom.

[vogie]

41 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

You are an 'expert' Grouse with 'facts' , cogent arguments , informed opinion and no doubt a successful career and life against an army of flag toting malcontents puffed up with having 'stuck it to the man' . The feeling they got made them feel very big on that inglorious day nearly 2 years ago, all of a sudden the wrongs they have suffered in life were righted and that gaping chip on their shoulder seemed miraculously healed. To give up that feeling now in the face of a barrage of information that strongly indicates we are on a course of destruction would be to admit failure and sink back into the slough of despair from which they voted. They would rather crash the car with us all in it rather than change course. I don't blame them 'for they know not what they do ' and have been royally 'played' by a bunch of arrogant , spivs, egotists and chancers but the political class who collectively who should  know better are ineffectual , leaderless  cowards and sleepwalking  us to a Suez type crisis and possibly worse situation. Maybe this is just the way it is, empires rise and fall , social democracy and the national consensus is dying ,every dog has it's day and darker days are around the corner, cheered on by the mob who have 'taken back control'. 

 

Good morning - a chill in the air and our hearts as we wake up in Blighty...

I'm glad grouse is no longer Billy no mates.

[beautifulthailand99]

6 minutes ago, vogie said:

I'm glad grouse is no longer Billy no mates.

It's tough at the top...

 

[AlexRich]

12 hours ago, George FmplesdaCosteedback said:

Not a matter if pleasure. The referendum was debated in Parliament, and it was a once only vote.

The recent local elections produced some very close results, but do they continue to deny a democratic decision?

No!

 

 

In a democracy there are no “once only” votes, or else we’d have the same party in charge in perpetuity after the first vote. The whole point of democracy is that you can change your mind, modify or adapt anything in the future if in the opinion of the majority it makes sense to do so. Scrapping the Poll Tax for example. And the same goes for the Brexit vote.

[soalbundy]

1 hour ago, aright said:

Simples! Don't watch it but don't be so curmudgeonly as to spoil other peoples enjoyment of it.

You can choose to live in what ever world you want to but don't try telling me where I should live.

For me, friends and family, it was a thoroughly enjoyable, brilliant day. 

I didn't watch it, all I saw were newspaper reports dripping with sentimentality, even the Germans were in on it, side after side. I'm not telling you where to live,it means nothing to me, if you enjoyed it OK, I'm sure there are plenty who are sick of it, I'm one of them, that shouldn't upset you or anybody else, it's just my opinion, your personal enjoyment of the marriage didn't upset me. You seem big on emotion, get a grip.

[soalbundy]

55 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

Well, that would be you, as anyone reading your comment can deduce.

 

A young couple have just got married, he a white caucasian, and she, a light skinned woman of mixed race, and you suggest they will have a ginger haired black baby, and you don’t think this is a racist comment. However, it is not just the racial aspect of your comment, you then go on to mock the man’s dead mother by suggesting the baby will be a girl, and that she will be called Diana.

 

I have read hundreds of comments on this thread, some I agree with, some I disagree with, some amusing, some confusing and some irksome, but I had not read one that made me genuinely feel disgust, but yours did.

Your disgust is your own experience, not mine, nor does it affect me.

[soalbundy]

56 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

Errr, well, absolutely nothing if you are two black parents; but you are suggesting that a white caucasian man, and a light skinned woman of mixed race will have a black baby with ginger hair. What on earth were you thinking of to write such tasteless bile

you mean that isn't possible? of course it is, all a matter of genetics, where did Harry get his ginger hair from ? Someone way back must have had it.

[adammike]

17 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

you mean that isn't possible? of course it is, all a matter of genetics, where did Harry get his ginger hair from ? Someone way back must have had it.

Not so way back! Have you seen the Spencer family? All gingers,as you don't seem to know the Spencer's are his mum's side of his family.

[aright]

40 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

I didn't watch it, all I saw were newspaper reports dripping with sentimentality, even the Germans were in on it, side after side. I'm not telling you where to live,it means nothing to me, if you enjoyed it OK, I'm sure there are plenty who are sick of it, I'm one of them, that shouldn't upset you or anybody else, it's just my opinion, your personal enjoyment of the marriage didn't upset me. You seem big on emotion, get a grip.

I enjoy emotion as opposed to insentience that's all. You should try it some time!