Brexit has created chaos in Britain – nobody voted for this

[vogie]

[Kieran00001]

23 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

Newsflash....

 

 

M & S profits slashed.

 

 

 

I imagine that MUST be because of Brexit.

 

Since the Brexit vote, 10% of British manufacturers have lost contracts, 46% have increased their retail costs and 20% are planning staff cuts, directly to counter the effects they are feeling from Brexit.  If you think there are no negative effects then you are in la-la land.

[dick dasterdly]

25 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

I will be honest - I was being facetious and took advantage of a steal of an opportunity to gently poke fun at Brexiteers.

I think the one thing that most seem to agree on, however, is that the title of this thread is accurate - nobody wants what we have now.

I agree.  Ordinary brits. aren't 'in chaos' over the brexit result (although it has caused chaos amongst uk/eu politicians) - but the second part of the Guardian opinion article TITLE was right (IMO) -  'nobody voted for this'.

 

The article itself blaming homelessness, prison, welfare and 'safety net' etc. problems on brexit (!) was beyond the pale and embarrassing to read.

[Kieran00001]

21 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

I agree.  Ordinary brits. aren't 'in chaos' over the brexit result (although it has caused chaos amongst uk/eu politicians) - but the second part of the Guardian opinion article TITLE was right (IMO) -  'nobody voted for this'.

 

The article itself blaming homelessness, prison, welfare and 'safety net' etc. problems on brexit (!) was beyond the pale and embarrassing to read.

 

They didn't blame any of those problems on Brexit, that is just your reading ability making you reach that silly conclusion.  What the article does is rightly blame those things on the government and suggest that one reason they are all increasing in severity is because the incompetent government is incapable of both running the country and negotiating Brexit at the same time, something that most rational people would agree with, they are clearly way out of their depth and things that are under their watch really aren't being watched at all.

[CG1 Blue]

1 hour ago, adammike said:

Don't effin call me a Tory ok! It's my opinion,I am a brit living in the Netherlands so I have skin in the game,I have started to spend a lot of time in the UK to help out my sister who takes care of my 94yo mum, it's very disconcerting to see the damage that brexit is doing families split etc,I will say that a lot of the brexiteers that have the strongest opinions it all seems to be just be racism pure and simple,my opinion. 

Can you give some examples of the racism you refer to please? None of the Brexiteers I know are racist, so it would be interesting to know your definition of racism.

[Eloquent pilgrim]

1 hour ago, soalbundy said:

any language is worth learning, some Brits in later life start to learn English.

and some even get disenfranchised 

[aright]

1 hour ago, soalbundy said:

although it was easy to forsee just as the outcome is, a glorified CU with a 'real break' in the never never land future, a general election, labour government, re-entry into the EU, adoption of the Euro, loss of rebate, anger and division all round the country.

For many Remainers the Emotional, Fear Model espoused by Patten, Mandelson,  Umunna et al, for some a sad state of affairs and for others the preferred outcome.

For me, the sooner we are out the better. If you want to see the sunshine you have to weather the storm.

[soalbundy]

11 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

and some even get disenfranchised 

undoubtedly. Without a representative voting system, instead a first past the post system, you will have many who feel that they aren't politically represented and their votes are therefore worthless.

[soalbundy]

10 minutes ago, aright said:

For many Remainers the Emotional, Fear Model espoused by Patten, Mandelson,  Umunna et al, for some a sad state of affairs and for others the preferred outcome.

For me, the sooner we are out the better. If you want to see the sunshine you have to weather the storm.

Indeed, happy the man in a solid well built house who can outwait the storm in safety and live to enjoy the following good weather.

[dick dasterdly]

Just now, soalbundy said:

undoubtedly. Without a representative voting system, instead a first past the post system, you will have many who feel that they aren't politically represented and their votes are therefore worthless.

I agree, but the referendum is different as it was based on actual votes on one single issue.

 

Voters were told that the outcome of the referendum would be accepted and implemented by the govt.  FPTP didn't come into it.

[soalbundy]

27 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

Can you give some examples of the racism you refer to please? None of the Brexiteers I know are racist, so it would be interesting to know your definition of racism.

ever read the readers comments in the Daily Excess.

[CG1 Blue]

1 hour ago, oldhippy said:

What is there to misunderstand?

It is clear and simple.

With one of the leading brexitears.

Or are they all lyers and clowns, particularly this one?

 

 

 

I do get tired of saying this, but here we go again:

 

Number 1, £350m was the gross amount under the control of the EU, so that should have been the message on the bus. The EU chooses to give some of that money back to us (bless them), so the net contribution is 'only' £260m per week. So I concede that the message on the bus was slightly misleading, but it was a valid point.

 

Number 2, the words "let's fund our NHS instead" are meant to suggest we (the UK) can decide what to spend our money on if we leave the EU, rather than have the EU decide. One suggestion would be to properly fund our NHS. Yes, a suggestion.  I don't see the words "we will put £350m into the NHS".

 

Number 3, the bus was part of a campaign.  The people running a campaign don't have the power to set our national budget.  That would be the PM and Chancellor of the Exchequer. Why would anyone see a bus slogan as a budget commitment?

 

Number 4, both sides used misleading and dishonest tactics during the campaign, and I would suggest more swing voters moved to Remain as a result of unfair tactics than Leave. Remain had our own PM and Chancellor running project fear, and they had the publicly funded pro-Remain leaflet drop.  Those two things alone would more than neutralise any impact from the bus slogan.

 

Just get over the bus slogan.

 

[soalbundy]

4 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

I agree, but the referendum is different as it was based on actual votes on one single issue.

 

Voters were told that the outcome of the referendum would be accepted and implemented by the govt.  FPTP didn't come into it.

The voters and the governments wishes are hitting the hard rocks of financial and organizational reality.

[dick dasterdly]

Just now, soalbundy said:

ever read the readers comments in the Daily Excess.

No.

 

Like most on this thread (I suspect), articles from tabloids are pretty much taboo - even more so the readers' comments.  Unfortunately, brexit has resulted in previously 'acceptable' newspapers becoming as rabid as the tabloids on the subject of brexit ?...

[Eloquent pilgrim]

21 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

undoubtedly. Without a representative voting system, instead a first past the post system, you will have many who feel that they aren't politically represented and their votes are therefore worthless.

It seems that you still don’t understand the meaning of “disenfranchised” …… I’ll explain again; it means to have been deprived of the right to vote, not that one feel that they are not politically represented, rendering one’s vote worthless. Nobody's vote is worthless, it is indeed sad if you feel like that simply because you don’t like the result of a vote

[aright]

6 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

The voters and the governments wishes are hitting the hard rocks of financial and organizational reality.

That's a given under any form of government isn't it?

[CG1 Blue]

13 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

ever read the readers comments in the Daily Excess.

No I don't.  Please elaborate.

[soalbundy]

3 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

It seems that you still don’t understand the meaning of “disenfranchised” …… I’ll explain again; it means to have been deprived of the right to vote, not that one feel that they are not politically represented, rendering one’s vote worthless. Nobody's vote is worthless, it is indeed sad if you feel like that simply because you don’t like the result of a vote

but that is the way it is, if 60% vote for Tory and 40% Labour in any one town then the 40% are not represented, I choose to call that disenfranchised, the votes for my chosen representative don't count, other countries have managed to have proportional representation without any upheaval but this has nothing to do with Brexit.

[soalbundy]

21 minutes ago, aright said:

That's a given under any form of government isn't it?

Yes, the government is formed by the party with the most votes but every party that gets over 5% is represented in parliament.

Edited May 23, 2018 by soalbundy

[soalbundy]

16 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

No I don't.  Please elaborate.

read them yourself whenever the topic of immigration is mentioned.

[Kieran00001]

42 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

Can you give some examples of the racism you refer to please? None of the Brexiteers I know are racist, so it would be interesting to know your definition of racism.

Reported hate crimes have increased five fold since the referendum, the normalisation of racism and its root in the rhetoric of the leave campaigns are undeniable.

 

[soalbundy]

I would say that the real enemy at the moment is America

[Eloquent pilgrim]

9 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

but that is the way it is, if 60% vote for Tory and 40% Labour in any one town then the 40% are not represented, I choose to call that disenfranchised, the votes for my chosen representative don't count, other countries have managed to have proportional representation without any upheaval but this has nothing to do with Brexit.

But we were discussing Brexit not a general or local election. If you are going to use a big word to try and give your argument some credence, you should at least know what it means. I have now explained it to you twice and you are still using it incorrectly   

[soalbundy]

1 minute ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

But we were discussing Brexit not a general or local election. If you are going to use a big word to try and give your argument some credence, you should at least know what it means. I have now explained it to you twice and you are still using it incorrectly   

That's my interpretation, stop being so pedantic, the meaning I attach to it is near enough.

[billd766]

2 hours ago, adammike said:

Don't effin call me a Tory ok! It's my opinion,I am a brit living in the Netherlands so I have skin in the game,I have started to spend a lot of time in the UK to help out my sister who takes care of my 94yo mum, it's very disconcerting to see the damage that brexit is doing families split etc,I will say that a lot of the brexiteers that have the strongest opinions it all seems to be just be racism pure and simple,my opinion.

Please give up on the expletives.

 

Where did I call you a Tory.

 

You are the person talking about racism, not me.

 

My family in the UK is not split over Brexit, nor are my friends, who are both for and against Brexit. 

 

You came up and stated with no links, nothing to back it up.

 

"12 hours ago, adammike said:

Very funny,but there will be another referendum or an election before brexit most likely an election.It was a government poll that came up with the 69%,it's an astonishing number.I stand by my other posts that brexit will cause the break up of the UK."

[Kieran00001]

15 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

That's my interpretation, stop being so pedantic, the meaning I attach to it is near enough.

 

I believe marginalised is the word you are looking for.

[Eloquent pilgrim]

3 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

I believe marginalised is the word you are looking for.

correct

[CG1 Blue]

1 hour ago, Kieran00001 said:

Reported hate crimes have increased five fold since the referendum, the normalisation of racism and its root in the rhetoric of the leave campaigns are undeniable.

 

A five fold increase you say? So that would mean reported hate crimes went up from 62,000 (2015-16) to 310,000.

 

This is from the BBC:

"The number of hate crimes in England and Wales has increased by 29%, according to Home Office statistics.

There were 80,393 offences in 2016-17, compared with 62,518 in 2015-16"

 

And you say this is mostly due to the EU referendum? Let's look again via the BBC:

 

"The biggest rise was in disability and transgender hate crimes, but this was due to better crime recording and more people coming forward, the report said.

It also noted a spike in hate crime around the time of the EU referendum.

There were also rises after the Westminster Bridge, Manchester Arena and London Bridge attacks this year."

 

Not sure where you get your facts from.

 

[nontabury]

6 hours ago, billd766 said:

 

I will skip that vote as in 2057 I will either be 113 years old or dead.

Come on think positive, after all you are an ex sprog, and I’m sure you don’t want to be like the remoaners,who always seem to be negative.

There is but one certainty in life, the thinking British people will never accept the E.U.

 

 

Edited May 23, 2018 by nontabury

[Jip99]

3 hours ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

Since the Brexit vote, 10% of British manufacturers have lost contracts, 46% have increased their retail costs and 20% are planning staff cuts, directly to counter the effects they are feeling from Brexit.  If you think there are no negative effects then you are in la-la land.

 

 

..and if you think it is all down to Brexit then you really are with the dumbasses.