Brexit has created chaos in Britain – nobody voted for this

[Jip99]

2 minutes ago, tebee said:

11 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

 

 

 

That is one of your more impressive contributions...?

Edited May 24, 2018 by Jip99

[tebee]

7 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

Yes tebee, of course they will.

 

Curry's or comet delivering a washing to a customers house will have to sign it up to Max Fac.

 

Why oh why do people have to talk such drivel ?

 

 

OK every Wholesale goods  - anything that might at some point be exported 

 

[CG1 Blue]

8 hours ago, soalbundy said:

You obviously inhabit a world of problems, your ego is clamouring to be right, who am I to deny it its sugar. I don't believe that I have made a distinction of intelligence between leavers and remainers, I don't think that the difference of opinion is a matter of intelligence but rather one of emotion, it certainly is in my case because I have strong emotional attachments to the continent. Nobody can know how brexit will turn out in the long term, in the short term it is surely apparent that a hard brexit will cause chaos  and financial hardship. Newspapers report that most British families don't have enough savings to tide them over for even a month and many rely on credit for the monthly bills, couple this with falling house prices (lack of equity for house owners) and possible rising mortgages and you have the perfect storm. Whatever, I don't have a dog in the fight, all I have from the UK is a British passport.

You forgot to mention the plague of locusts

[The Renegade]

Just now, Jip99 said:

 

 

That is is one of your more impressive contributions...?

I think it has sunk in how stupid his last 3 comments have made him look that he is now speechless

[tebee]

12 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

May I ask what Brexit related documentation you think that you will need, and how you estimated that it will add 8-10% to your logistical costs  ..... thanks 

  24 minutes ago, tebee said:
If I need to add another 8-10% to those logistics costs for Brexit related documentation, it makes a big difference to our margins

May I ask what Brexit related documentation you think that you will need, and how you estimated that it will add 8-10% to your logistical costs  ..... thanks 

 

Er I didn't say that.....

 

[tebee]

2 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

That is is one of your more impressive contributions...?

I was trying to copy in  the quote he'd replied to what was supposed to be from me but wasn't - it seems like it didn't like the way I tried to do that.

[Eloquent pilgrim]

1 hour ago, RuamRudy said:

If I need to add another 8-10% to those logistics costs for Brexit related documentation, it makes a big difference to our margins

May I ask what Brexit related documentation you think that you will need, and how you estimated that it will add 8-10% to your logistical costs  ..... thanks 

[Eloquent pilgrim]

11 minutes ago, tebee said:

  24 minutes ago, tebee said:
If I need to add another 8-10% to those logistics costs for Brexit related documentation, it makes a big difference to our margins

May I ask what Brexit related documentation you think that you will need, and how you estimated that it will add 8-10% to your logistical costs  ..... thanks 

 

Er I didn't say that.....

 

Apologies tebee ...... as you no doubt realise I was attempting to reply to RuamRudy

[tebee]

23 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Has there been an overview prepared of all the possible options, their feasbility, cost, acceptability to the outside world etc?

The Eu have already rejected it.

Why?

It's probably illegal and against WTO rules.

It would involve considerables costs to EU businesses and government as well as UK

 

But the central point is that once the UK leaves and what used to be an internal border becomes an external border, the full EU regime will apply automatically as to all other external borders, and that necessitates a hard border. Unless the UK accepts the special status for Northern Ireland – which is politically impossible.

One can, for the reasons I gave earlier – international legal obligations on the UK beyond the EU – forget all the endless repetition of “on the EU and Dublin’s head be it: we won’t erect a hard border; it would be their choice”.

Firstly, that’s simply legally untrue, at WTO and WCO level. Secondly, the EU simply won’t agree a max fac deal as solving the problem. It was dead well before arrival.

 

The computer technology to run it does not exist yet - estimate is at least 5 years to write the software and we know how well large government computer projects go.

 

It's an over complicated solution to a problem of our own making.

[The Renegade]

12 minutes ago, tebee said:

The Eu have already rejected it.

Why?

It's probably illegal and against WTO rules.

It's probably illegal ? So you do not know and have no idea.

 

A better and more accurate answer would be.

 

It will be rejected by the EU because the EU is still desperately trying to keep the UK tied at the hip to the EU. They need the UK's ££££££££££££'s

[RuamRudy]

35 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

May I ask what Brexit related documentation you think that you will need, and how you estimated that it will add 8-10% to your logistical costs  ..... thanks 

The article stated that, taking into account the range of possible costs for the implementation and execution of the preferred means of customs control, the expected cost would be around 32 pounds. If I consolidate an order with 6 suppliers, each would possibly be required to prepare their own paperwork so 6 x 32 = 192 pounds, which is approximately 8% of current market rates for a 40' standard container to the far east.

 

If, as Renegade suggested, that it is not applicable to non-EU bound goods then great - but will the suppliers maintain this segragation of costs? Possibly they will, and then my fears will be baseless, but the point is that the uncertainty is there, and it is disconcerting.

[tebee]

8 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

It's probably illegal ? So you do not know and have no idea.

 

A better and more accurate answer would be.

 

It will be rejected by the EU because the EU is still desperately trying to keep the UK tied at the hip to the EU. They need the UK's ££££££££££££'s

Ok it is illegal - you happier now ? 

[beautifulthailand99]

11 hours ago, aright said:

 

What a turn up for the books. First, Hans-Olaf Henkel, one of Germany’s leading industrialists and member of the European Parliament, says that Britain quitting the EU is an epic disaster because with us leaving, “the last country with common sense leaves the EU”.

And now Bernard-Henri Lévy, the great French intellectual, warns that Europe will collapse if Brexit goes ahead. In a dynamite interview at the weekend, Lévy said that the EU will collapse if Britain leaves because it is the brain of Europe, and “when the body is deprived of its brain and its heart, its spirit dies”.

https://uk.yahoo.com/finance/news/margareta-pagano-eu-must-learn-103300609.html

 

and that's a good thing ? - Europe collapsing - my grandfather was gassed at the Somme and my father was in the Royal Signals 1940 - 1945 South Africa, Libya, Egypt, Italy (saw Vesuvius erupt) and through a devastated Germany. He would be horrified to see Brexit and the nationalistic fires it is stoking up. A Europe at peace and co-operating is something to cherish. My grandfather who I never knew refused ever to talk about the war , join the British Legion or commemorate it in any way so traumatised by the experience was he. 

 

Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it

Edited May 24, 2018 by beautifulthailand99

[The Renegade]

3 minutes ago, tebee said:

Ok it is illegal - you happier now ? 

NO

 

If you are now claiming that it IS illegal, rather than PROBABLY illegal, then produce something to back it up.

 

Otherwise, yet again, you are talking complete cow manure.

[The Renegade]

Interesting comment on the BBC

 

Italian eurosceptics raise eyebrows in Brussels

 

Quote

So clearly there is concern and it is the first time since World War Two that Italy has a populist and anti-establishment government."

He explains that in the negotiations to form the government a draft of a contract was leaked: "There were two points. One that was saying they would ask the European Central Bank to cancel €250bn of Italian debt. The second was that they would ask European authorities to prepare a path for any country wishing to leave the euro and these clearly raised the eyebrows of a number of people in Brussels."

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/live/business-44198480

[CG1 Blue]

8 hours ago, tebee said:

There are less   unaccountable unelected officials in Brussels than there are in our own civil service.

But if we already have lots of them in our own civil service, why would we want more of them over in Brussels?

[tebee]

7 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

NO

 

If you are now claiming that it IS illegal, rather than PROBABLY illegal, then produce something to back it up.

 

Otherwise, yet again, you are talking complete cow manure.

OK Wto rules require that unless two countries are in a customs union, any goods crossing the border between them must be inspected and subject to the relevant tariffs that that country also applies to every other country.

 

Max Fax is not a customs union .

 

To get it accepted you would have to go to the WTO and get them to change their rules.

 

So as it stands  now it's not a legal option, but if we do get them to accept it at some point in the future then it possibly could be.

 

But the WTO moves at a glacial pace, so that approval could be 20 years in the future.

 

Any WTO rule changes require unanimity so any one country could block it seaking concessions .

 

That clear enough for you ?  

[The Renegade]

6 minutes ago, tebee said:

OK Wto rules require that unless two countries are in a customs union, any goods crossing the border between them must be inspected and subject to the relevant tariffs that that country also applies to every other country.

Please read and digest.

 

Quote

How might the UK “take back control” of its borders without making the border in Ireland any harder. One proposal on the table is maximum facilitation (max fac). This approach does not avoid the creation of a customs border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland but rather aims to make the border as invisible and frictionless as possible through the use of technology. This includes electronic customs registration, unobtrusive screening techniques and even the technology behind Bitcoin.

http://theconversation.com/can-technology-and-max-fac-solve-the-irish-border-question-expert-explains-96735

 

Illegal and against WTO rules is it ?

 

When you are neck deep, it is normally a good idea to stop digging.

[Eloquent pilgrim]

34 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

and that's a good thing ? - Europe collapsing - my grandfather was gassed at the Somme and my father was in the Royal Signals 1940 - 1945 South Africa, Libya, Egypt, Italy (saw Vesuvius erupt) and through a devastated Germany. He would be horrified to see Brexit and the nationalistic fires it is stoking up. A Europe at peace and co-operating is something to cherish. My grandfather who I never knew refused ever to talk about the war , join the British Legion or commemorate it in any way so traumatised by the experience was he. 

 

Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it

I’m sure your father and grandfather were fine brave men, who had no choice but to fight and suffer in the world wars; my father, both of my grandfathers, 5 of my mum's brothers and 3 of my dad’s, fought in the world wars. Although they were all patriots, I wouldn't presume to know how they would have felt about Brexit, nor would I use their views in this debate, especially if I was just guessing as to what those views might be.

[nontabury]

6 hours ago, soalbundy said:

What's wrong with federalisation ? It must be obvious to anyone that that is the target, it's a big cold world out there,there are no friends, how do you deal with the USA, China, Russia and India alone. Only when Europe can speak and act as one block do we have a chance of being more than just a football, the USA and China are virtually carving up the world for themselves.

Many of us do not want to be part of a larger federal state. And in 1975 the British people were never informed that this was the ambition of certain people in the establishment. We ALL thought that we were voting for membership of a Trading Block. O.K we were well and truly conned.

Come 2016 and we thought 

“Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice and shame on me”.

we want our sovereignty back. That’s why we voted for Briexit, so that we could 

make our own laws,control our boarders and leave the single market in order to take advantage of an ever increasing world trade.

 

 

 

[CG1 Blue]

6 hours ago, soalbundy said:

What's wrong with federalisation ? It must be obvious to anyone that that is the target, it's a big cold world out there,there are no friends, how do you deal with the USA, China, Russia and India alone. Only when Europe can speak and act as one block do we have a chance of being more than just a football, the USA and China are virtually carving up the world for themselves.

You can't just stitch a load of countries together, just to gang up against bigger nations.  A load of different nations with different languages, histories, ways of life. 

 

The great thing about Europe in my opinion is that diversity. Brits, the French, the Italians, the Germans - we're all so beautifully different!

 

Dreaming of a USE to match the USA is just ridiculous, in my humble opinion. 

[Jip99]

5 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

You can't just stitch a load of countries together, just to gang up against bigger nations.  A load of different nations with different languages, histories, ways of life. 

 

The great thing about Europe in my opinion is that diversity. Brits, the French, the Italians, the Germans - we're all so beautifully different!

 

Dreaming of a USE to match the USA is just ridiculous, in my humble opinion. 

 

 

Europe is brilliant.

 

 

Just a pity that the EU forked it up.

 

 

I never had, and never will have, any desire to be part of USE or a federal Europe.

[CG1 Blue]

6 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

That is, without a doubt, the lowest I have seen on this thread for a while. The humanity and compassion James O'Brien displays in all the media in which he works is genuine and significant. You may not like the message because he puts the inherently kafkaesque unfairness of Brexit into perspective, but to call him anti British and insult him because of that shows just how threatened you feel by the truth. Yours is a genuinely shameful post.

You only feel this way because you agree with his views. I find many of his views despicable. And his inability and refusal to listen to any other point of view is just rude and bloody minded.

 

I think your post is a bit weird. Do you wait outside his house?

[RuamRudy]

16 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

You only feel this way because you agree with his views. I find many of his views despicable. And his inability and refusal to listen to any other point of view is just rude and bloody minded.

 

On the contrary, I would suggest that youre trying to other him because you disagree with his views.

 

You are perfectly entitled to disagree with both his views and his interview style, but to refer to him as 'a hateful, anti-British piece of sh*' is not simply disagreement but an attempt to paint him as some sort of traitor BECAUSE he cares about the impact of Brexit upon individuals.

 

He speaks a lot of truth and common sense, and is able to pierce through the lies and obfuscation of the Leave campaign - something that Brexiteers clearly don't like.

[tomacht8]

35 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

Europe is brilliant.

 

 

Just a pity that the EU forked it up.

 

 

I never had, and never will have, any desire to be part of USE or a federal Europe.

I respect your opinion.
But how timely is your opinion against the backdrop of globalization, global value creation, global supply chains, international financial markets, resource scarcity, global environmental threats, overpopulation, species extinctions, etc.
The relapse into small states will certainly not be able to solve the problems of this planet.

 

[CG1 Blue]

1 hour ago, RuamRudy said:

On the contrary, I would suggest that youre trying to other him because you disagree with his views.

 

You are perfectly entitled to disagree with both his views and his interview style, but to refer to him as 'a hateful, anti-British piece of sh*' is not simply disagreement but an attempt to paint him as some sort of traitor BECAUSE he cares about the impact of Brexit upon individuals.

 

He speaks a lot of truth and common sense, and is able to pierce through the lies and obfuscation of the Leave campaign - something that Brexiteers clearly don't like.

I have LBC on whenever possible. I listen to all views out there.  I believe it's healthy to at least listen to all views.

I listen to plenty of Remain presenters, and enjoy hearing them debate Brexit with other listeners.

 

With JOB though, it's never a debate.  He bullies and shouts down any caller who has a different view.

And by the way, this is not just on Brexit.  He has unbending extreme left views on many things, and he typifies the modern day aggressive and intimidating far left.

 

He also comes across as despising his own nationality and all aspects of Britain's past. He does this with a passion, and you can almost hear his face screwing up with anger.

 

Like I say, if you agree with his views you probably overlook the rudeness and aggression, and probably admire his passion. Each to their own.

[Eloquent pilgrim]

13 hours ago, soalbundy said:

You obviously inhabit a world of problems, your ego is clamouring to be right, who am I to deny it its sugar. I don't believe that I have made a distinction of intelligence between leavers and remainers, I don't think that the difference of opinion is a matter of intelligence but rather one of emotion, it certainly is in my case because I have strong emotional attachments to the continent. Nobody can know how brexit will turn out in the long term, in the short term it is surely apparent that a hard brexit will cause chaos  and financial hardship. Newspapers report that most British families don't have enough savings to tide them over for even a month and many rely on credit for the monthly bills, couple this with falling house prices (lack of equity for house owners) and possible rising mortgages and you have the perfect storm. Whatever, I don't have a dog in the fight, all I have from the UK is a British passport.

The world I inhabit is thankfully, bereft of any problems, and it is rather rude of you to suggest otherwise; if you think that you can diminish or dismantle  the fact that I am right on the issue at hand, by attributing it as a matter of ego, you are sadly mistaken.

 

Maybe you are getting frustrated by your error, I am sorry, but not responsible, if this discombobulates you   

[tebee]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-customs-union-uk-stay-2020-tory-mps-jacob-rees-mogg-a8367001.html

 

[aright]

4 hours ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

and that's a good thing ? - Europe collapsing - my grandfather was gassed at the Somme and my father was in the Royal Signals 1940 - 1945 South Africa, Libya, Egypt, Italy (saw Vesuvius erupt) and through a devastated Germany. He would be horrified to see Brexit and the nationalistic fires it is stoking up. A Europe at peace and co-operating is something to cherish. My grandfather who I never knew refused ever to talk about the war , join the British Legion or commemorate it in any way so traumatised by the experience was he. 

 

Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it

My father in law was the same, never spoke of his war time experiences. He was one of the first troops into Birkenau. In the case of Brexit I think the present has as much influence on the future as the past.

 

Change is the law of life. And those who look only to the past or present are certain to miss the future. John F. Kennedy
 

 

[beautifulthailand99]

4 hours ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

I’m sure your father and grandfather were fine brave men, who had no choice but to fight and suffer in the world wars; my father, both of my grandfathers, 5 of my mum's brothers and 3 of my dad’s, fought in the world wars. Although they were all patriots, I wouldn't presume to know how they would have felt about Brexit, nor would I use their views in this debate, especially if I was just guessing as to what those views might be.

My dear dad is long gone but if he hadn't lost his marbles living to a ripe old age of 99 to vote in the election I know he would have been a remainer. Anyway the choice now at this late juncture in great part down to the ineptitude of May and the oncoming runaway train of reality according to one of the arch Leave architects seems to be remain or chaos....which do you want ? And so the great Leave betrayal begins ....the incandescent with rage comments are a joy to behold....but I can't add to them as I'm banned as a troll...

 

“Yes it’s true that May, Hammond, Heywood and Robbins are Remain and have screwed it up but you’re deluded if you think you’ll be able to blame the debacle just on them. Whitehall is better at the blame game than you are, officials are completely dominant in this government, ministers have chosen to put Heywood/Robbins in charge, and YOU will get most of the blame from the public. The sooner you internalise these facts and face reality, the better for the country and you.”

 

https://order-order.com/2018/05/24/7-cummings-truth-bullets-for-brexiter-tory-mps/

 

 

Edited May 24, 2018 by beautifulthailand99