Brexit has created chaos in Britain – nobody voted for this

[The Renegade]

29 minutes ago, tebee said:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-customs-union-uk-stay-2020-tory-mps-jacob-rees-mogg-a8367001.html

 

Still speechless I see ??

[The Renegade]

33 minutes ago, tebee said:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-customs-union-uk-stay-2020-tory-mps-jacob-rees-mogg-a8367001.html

 

From Reuters

 

Quote

Britain will end its implementation period with the European Union after Brexit in December 2020, a government source said on Thursday, denying a media report that Prime Minister Theresa May was seeking a new transition until 2023.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-transition/brexit-transition-will-end-in-dec-2020-uk-source-denies-reports-of-additional-period-idUSKCN1IP18T

 

Who should I believe, Reuters or the Pro - EU Independent ?

[Kieran00001]

4 hours ago, nontabury said:

Many of us do not want to be part of a larger federal state. And in 1975 the British people were never informed that this was the ambition of certain people in the establishment. We ALL thought that we were voting for membership of a Trading Block. O.K we were well and truly conned.

Come 2016 and we thought 

“Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice and shame on me”.

we want our sovereignty back. That’s why we voted for Briexit, so that we could 

make our own laws,control our boarders and leave the single market in order to take advantage of an ever increasing world trade.

 

 

 

Quote

in 1975 the British people were never informed that this was the ambition of certain people in the establishment. We ALL thought that we were voting for membership of a Trading Block. O.K we were well and truly conned.

 

 

We were "all conned" and "never informed", except of course for the 'Vote No' pamphlet that was delivered by Royal Mail to every single household in the country stating, in the second sentence, that the intention of the Common Market was to

"merge Britain with France, Germany, Italy and other countries into a single nation."

[The Renegade]

2 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

 

We were "all conned" and "never informed", except of course for the 'Vote No' pamphlet that was delivered by Royal Mail to every single household in the country stating, in the second sentence, that the intention of the Common Market was to

"merge Britain with France, Germany, Italy and other countries into a single nation."

???

 

Thanks for confirming that you do not have a clue what fake news is.

[tebee]

Now even one of vote leave architects is saying the government has no credible policy.

 

https://dominiccummings.com/2018/05/23/on-the-referendum-25-a-letter-to-tory-mps-donors-on-the-brexit-shambles/

[beautifulthailand99]

19 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

Still speechless I see ??

This was always going to happen in fact I wrote on this thread about a year ago this would be the outcome. If the Tory party splits and vicious infighting ensures and Corbyn gets in we are all doomed... 

[beautifulthailand99]

Didn't Moggy say he would leave the UK if this happened  - time to pack the Louis Vuitton travelers cases Jacob - off ye go and take BoJo and Farige with you...Hopefully we can all celebrate a rising pound .....

Edited May 24, 2018 by beautifulthailand99

[StreetCowboy]

3 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

This was always going to happen in fact I wrote on this thread about a year ago this would be the outcome. If the Tory party splits and vicious infighting ensures and Corbyn gets in we are all doomed... 

I think it will be great to have a Prime Minister that is supported by some of the electorate, and who has opinions and policies, instead of someone who’s sole aim in government is to drain the poisoned chalice she was handed.

[Kieran00001]

4 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

???

 

Thanks for confirming that you do not have a clue what fake news is.

 

Its here in full if you haven't read it.

https://digital.library.lse.ac.uk/objects/lse:cez792qaf

 

And then there were the unions and demonstrations who also informed people of the intention of the Common Market to unite into one nation.

https://digital.library.lse.ac.uk/objects/lse:wuj639vib/read/single#page/1/mode/1up

https://digital.library.lse.ac.uk/objects/lse:wiz349xek/read/single#page/1/mode/1up

https://digital.library.lse.ac.uk/objects/lse:dot498wof

 

[StreetCowboy]

3 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

Didn't Moggy say he would leave the UK if this happened  - time to pack the Louis Vuitton travelers cases Jacob - off ye go and take BoJo and Farige with you...Hopefully we can all celebrate a rising pound .....

That’s the best Labour Party Political Broadcast I’ve ever seen; millions across the land would have changed their allegiance based on that offer, but it would no doubt have proven to be just another empty promise

[beautifulthailand99]

4 minutes ago, StreetCowboy said:

That’s the best Labour Party Political Broadcast I’ve ever seen; millions across the land would have changed their allegiance based on that offer, but it would no doubt have proven to be just another empty promise

and the irony is he's capitulated......whilst ostensibly 'supporting' Theresa May'  into this car-crash.  

[Kwasaki]

7 minutes ago, StreetCowboy said:

That’s the best Labour Party Political Broadcast I’ve ever seen; millions across the land would have changed their allegiance based on that offer, but it would no doubt have proven to be just another empty promise

Vote for me and I will unfreeze UK pensions in Thailand. ?

[StreetCowboy]

2 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Vote for me and I will unfreeze UK pensions in Thailand. ?

Reverse Brexit and I’ll stop posting

 

edit: except on the rugby league and cycling threads

 

edit edit: and sometimes late on a weeknight evening in The Pub

Edited May 24, 2018 by StreetCowboy

[beautifulthailand99]

Just read the whole of the Domic Cumming's  missive - he's a really smart guy and the reason probably that Leave won the referendum.....

 

https://dominiccummings.com/2018/05/23/on-the-referendum-25-a-letter-to-tory-mps-donors-on-the-brexit-shambles/

[Kwasaki]

11 minutes ago, StreetCowboy said:

Reverse Brexit and I’ll stop posting

 

edit: except on the rugby league and cycling threads

 

edit edit: and sometimes late on a weeknight evening in The Pub

Reverse Brexit !! I'm more concerned about the absents of Lay's tomato flavoured  crisps. ?

Edited May 24, 2018 by Kwasaki

[billd766]

54 minutes ago, tebee said:

Now even one of vote leave architects is saying the government has no credible policy.

 

https://dominiccummings.com/2018/05/23/on-the-referendum-25-a-letter-to-tory-mps-donors-on-the-brexit-shambles/

 

That would be 1 in about 17 million.

[beautifulthailand99]

1 minute ago, billd766 said:

 

That would be 1 in about 17 million.

Have you read and digested what he wrote. It's undoable in it's current form without causing economic chaos , and May and her 'team' have totally fe'edd it up on an epic scale. 

[StreetCowboy]

2 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

Have you read and digested what he wrote. It's undoable in it's current form without causing economic chaos , and May and her 'team' have totally fe'edd it up on an epic scale. 

She’s doing a great job, and no-one gives her any credit; I expect her to be beatified years from now

[beautifulthailand99]

2 minutes ago, StreetCowboy said:

She’s doing a great job, and no-one gives her any credit; I expect her to be beatified years from now

Well it's a miracle she is beginning to see sense and realise it's undoable. She will stagger on until someone is brave enough to wield the knife. Trouble is it's a hugely poisoned chalice and no-one wants to move first or has enough support to make it work.  Cometh the hour cometh the Corbyn....

[StreetCowboy]

Just now, beautifulthailand99 said:

Well it's a miracle she is beginning to see sense and realise it's undoable. She will stagger on until someone is brave enough to wield the knife. Trouble is it's a hugely poisoned chalice and no-one wants to move first or has enough support to make it work.  Cometh the hour cometh the Corbyn....

Corbin could not do her job because he does not have buffoons like Mogg or Johnson in his team - does he?  Regardless of your opinion of Theresa May, she shines like a beacon of common sense amongst her colleagues

[vogie]

18 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

Well it's a miracle she is beginning to see sense and realise it's undoable. She will stagger on until someone is brave enough to wield the knife. Trouble is it's a hugely poisoned chalice and no-one wants to move first or has enough support to make it work.  Cometh the hour cometh the Corbyn....

Brexit for the many, not just the few.

[beautifulthailand99]

1 hour ago, StreetCowboy said:

Corbin could not do her job because he does not have buffoons like Mogg or Johnson in his team - does he?  Regardless of your opinion of Theresa May, she shines like a beacon of common sense amongst her colleagues

Yes daming her with faint praise methinks. She would make a good headmistress of a top school I'll concede that. 

[beautifulthailand99]

53 minutes ago, vogie said:

Brexit for the many, not just the few.

Corb-In or Corb-Out - shake it all Cor-bout . 

[Jip99]

6 hours ago, tomacht8 said:

I respect your opinion.
But how timely is your opinion against the backdrop of globalization, global value creation, global supply chains, international financial markets, resource scarcity, global environmental threats, overpopulation, species extinctions, etc.
The relapse into small states will certainly not be able to solve the problems of this planet.

 

 

 

A European Economic Community might have worked...... a a bit like ASEAN. 

[CG1 Blue]

1 hour ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

Have you read and digested what he wrote. It's undoable in it's current form without causing economic chaos , and May and her 'team' have totally fe'edd it up on an epic scale. 

If we were dealing with a reasonable organisation it could have been all done and dusted by now.  The problem is that one side (the EU) want to make it as difficult as possible. They are not cooperating or helping us seek solutions like grown ups would.

 

"And why should they?" I hear remainers shout. Because we are always being told what a wonderful organisation the EU is, and how much good they do for us and the region. And because the UK has given the EU a hell of a lot over the past 40+ years.  So why shouldn't we given a bespoke deal and a friendly send off?  Poland could never demand to have the same leaving deal as the UK, so the domino effect is not an excuse.

 

Nobody said it would be easy. What I find surprising is how (mostly remainers) are telling us to concede defeat now, because it's getting too difficult. We knew it would be difficult.

 

For me personally, if it takes more time that's fine.  Just as long as we get out eventually.

All the issues can be resolved over time. Even the EU commissioners are not vindictive enough to force us into walking away. I hope.

 

We should not give up just because the going got tough.

[beautifulthailand99]

2 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

If we were dealing with a reasonable organisation it could have been all done and dusted by now.  The problem is that one side (the EU) want to make it as difficult as possible. They are not cooperating or helping us seek solutions like grown ups would.

 

"And why should they?" I hear remainers shout. Because we are always being told what a wonderful organisation the EU is, and how much good they do for us and the region. And because the UK has given the EU a hell of a lot over the past 40+ years.  So why shouldn't we given a bespoke deal and a friendly send off?  Poland could never demand to have the same leaving deal as the UK, so the domino effect is not an excuse.

 

Nobody said it would be easy. What I find surprising is how (mostly remainers) are telling us to concede defeat now, because it's getting too difficult. We knew it would be difficult.

 

For me personally, if it takes more time that's fine.  Just as long as we get out eventually.

All the issues can be resolved over time. Even the EU commissioners are not vindictive enough to force us into walking away. I hope.

 

We should not give up just because the going got tough.

All very reasonable in an ideal world no doubt- but we are not in one. And this 'people's referendum' and the difficulties it has caused are to most of the political, business and executive class so toxic and so fraught with incalculable risk that it is undoable barring some sort of revolution which we just don't do in the UK. This has now been kicked into the long grass where it will wither and die down the line. Brexiteers will mutter and moan but I always knew and hoped in the end reason and pragmatism would prevail in the end and one thing we can be sure off is referenda will be off the menu certainly for a generation.  And we can get back to more pressing UK matters such as the NHS, housing , pensions and the like the things that really matter to most folk. Brexit and the dvisions it has sown are for sure the biggest political and economic crisis of my adult life, and all because Cameron winged it hoping it would see off the UKIP threat to the tories.  Corbyn to many of those 'left behind'  now is the Great White Hope to misuse a phrase.  It is our curse to be born in interesting times....

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

On 5/22/2018 at 4:20 AM, aright said:

Point well made.

Lets put the shoe on the other foot.

Suppose in the Scottish referendum the peoples vote for independence was 52-48% in favour and then the MP's in Westminster said sorry but we are not in favour of Scotland leaving the Union and neither are the BBC etc etc.. The process is extremely complex and there's a border to consider and we have to satisfy the 48% who voted against 

the motion...…..so no sorry you can't have the independence you voted for.

Riots on the streets I would have thought.

 

Would be interesting if it happened.

 

Please don't forget the Scottish economy is propped up by huge amounts of money from England.

Independence for Scotland from the UK is something the Scots would have to consider very carefully if they get another referendum, since they would not be guaranteed immediate entry into the EU and the EU's subsidies schemes.

 

Consideration for those who don't want independence from the EU is being given liberally in the negotiations, however the fact remains to actually leave the EU it is not possible to stay in the CU or SM.

 

The trade deal is the crux of the whole thing, but the sabotage by the remain voters of the UK's negotiating position is playing into the EU's hand and lessening the chance of a deal that will be beneficial to the whole of the UK and still acceptable by the EU at the end of the day.

 

 

[beautifulthailand99]

17 minutes ago, George FmplesdaCosteedback said:

Would be interesting if it happened.

 

Please don't forget the Scottish economy is propped up by huge amounts of money from England.

Independence for Scotland from the UK is something the Scots would have to consider very carefully if they get another referendum, since they would not be guaranteed immediate entry into the EU and the EU's subsidies schemes.

 

Consideration for those who don't want independence from the EU is being given liberally in the negotiations, however the fact remains to actually leave the EU it is not possible to stay in the CU or SM.

 

The trade deal is the crux of the whole thing, but the sabotage by the remain voters of the UK's negotiating position is playing into the EU's hand and lessening the chance of a deal that will be beneficial to the whole of the UK and still acceptable by the EU at the end of the day.

 

 

aye that's the Scot's for you , the English are more passive.  I've said it  before major constitutional change should be only be quorate if 50% of the registered electorate vote for it - so it truly reflects the much touted 'will of the people'. If not status quo maintains - we've done it before..and I'm very surprised Sir Humphrey didn't push for this when drafting the referendum bill. 

 

The result of the referendum in Scotland was a narrow majority in favour of devolution (52% to 48%),^[15] but a condition of the referendum was that 40% of the total electorate should vote in favour in order to make it valid. But the turnout was only of 63.6%, so only 32.9% of the electorate voted "Yes". The Scotland Act 1978 was consequently repealed in March 1979 by a vote of 301–206 in Parliament. In the wake of the referendum the supporters of the bill conducted a protest campaign under the slogan "Scotland said yes". They argued that the 40% rule was undemocratic and that the referendum results justified the establishment of the assembly. Campaigners for a "No" vote countered that voters had been told before the referendum that failing to vote was as good as a "No".^[20] It was therefore incorrect to conclude that the relatively low turnout was entirely due to voter apathy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_devolution_referendum,_1979

 

Edited May 24, 2018 by beautifulthailand99

[aright]

6 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

  I've said it  before major constitutional change should be only be quorate if 50% of the registered electorate vote for it - so it truly reflects the much touted 'will of the people'. If not status quo maintains - we've done it before... 

You seem to be saying that if only 49% of the total electorate vote and the outcome is 90% against the status quo and 10% for, that outcome doesn't count. How can you justify that? 

[beautifulthailand99]

1 minute ago, aright said:

You seem to be saying that if only 49% of the total electorate vote and the outcome is 90% against the status quo and 10% for, that outcome doesn't count. How can you justify that? 

Because it is a fundamental and profound change in the way the Uk is governed and run. You have suggested an extreme outcome that in all likelihood would be much closer.  Like I quoted before there is precedent for this and the Scots didn't riot. When we are quoting 'the people' we need to be careful to include all the people and include those who can't (sadly) be bothered to vote for various reasons. My gerrymandering quorum would have got us over the line and would have all have moved on by now hopefully more profitably. I'll accept the 40% that happened before ...