Brexit has created chaos in Britain – nobody voted for this

[aright]

35 minutes ago, StreetCowboy said:

In your ideal world there would be Freedom of Movement access to the UK, however, that is just a current negotiating position, and we will see what agreements finally transpire in the run up to Brexit.

 

I quite like being able to swan round Europe without fear of let or hindrance, but that is a freedom that I may well have to sacrifice for your benefit.

 

EDIT: Sacrifice is the wrong word, since that means to give up willingly.

 

"... that is a freedom that you may well sacrifice on my behalf." is more accurate.  And on behalf of my children.

" Am I my brother's keeper?" comes to mind.

[nontabury]

1 hour ago, StreetCowboy said:

In your ideal world there would be Freedom of Movement access to the UK, however, that is just a current negotiating position, and we will see what agreements finally transpire in the run up to Brexit.

 

I quite like being able to swan round Europe without fear of let or hindrance, but that is a freedom that I may well have to sacrifice for your benefit.

 

EDIT: Sacrifice is the wrong word, since that means to give up willingly.

 

"... that is a freedom that you may well sacrifice on my behalf." is more accurate.  And on behalf of my children.

Before we joined the EEC, never mind the hated E.U. I was able to swan round Europe. So What is there to stop us from reverting to that access. “Ah” yes, those little tin pot dictators in Brussels and their back stabbing supporters in the U.K.

 

 

[StreetCowboy]

29 minutes ago, nontabury said:

Before we joined the EEC, never mind the hated E.U. I was able to swan round Europe. So What is there to stop us from reverting to that access. “Ah” yes, those little tin pot dictators in Brussels and their back stabbing supporters in the U.K.

...

And I am sure that for as long as we provide reciprocal access for EU citizens, we will maintain that privilege.  My understanding is that the Brexiteers hope to restrict that freedom, which restriction I am sure will be reciprocated.

 

SC

Edited June 6, 2018 by StreetCowboy

[Grouse]

May I bring up country of origin?

 

Having a Euro1 rating for one's product is a big deal; the product can be sold as an EU product under dozens of trade deals.

 

UK products including cars will not qualify unless they are at least 55% manufactured in the EU. This applies equally to EU products with U.K. Sub assemblies.

 

Have any of the populists ANY idea how serious this issue is?

 

No. Thought not.....

[StreetCowboy]

7 minutes ago, Grouse said:

May I bring up country of origin?

 

Having a Euro1 rating for one's product is a big deal; the product can be sold as an EU product under dozens of trade deals.

 

UK products including cars will not qualify unless they are at least 55% manufactured in the EU. This applies equally to EU products with U.K. Sub assemblies.

 

Have any of the populists ANY idea how serious this issue is?

 

No. Thought not.....

It's not about industry, or exports.  It's about Jamaican fraudsters and Muslim gang rapists.  We're willing to sacrifice our freedom of movement, thousands of health service workers, and Britain's goods and services, in order to pretend we are doing something about immigration, and to spite  'faceless unelected bureaucrats' in Brussels.

 

It's about transfer of power to a small elite group educated in English Public Schools, faceless bureaucrats in Westminster, and quangos of appointed lickspittles.  That's what's going to make us great again; not having a say in one of the world's major trading blocks, but rather having our own unelected bureaucrats, and a deep-rooted and ill-defined sense of injustice.  That's what will make us Great again.

[aright]

34 minutes ago, Grouse said:

May I bring up country of origin?

 

Having a Euro1 rating for one's product is a big deal; the product can be sold as an EU product under dozens of trade deals.

 

UK products including cars will not qualify unless they are at least 55% manufactured in the EU. This applies equally to EU products with U.K. Sub assemblies.

 

Have any of the populists ANY idea how serious this issue is?

 

No. Thought not.....

Why is it a serious issue. Where, short term, are car manufacturers going to produce the 900000 cars produced annually in the UK and how would an immediate strike as a result of EU intransigence to a sensible settlement affect their sales. How short and long term is Mercedes and other brands going to replace sales lost to the UK as a result of crippling tariffs? The UK is the largest market for Mercedes cars in Europe.

I would suggest it's easier to change the rules than the geography.

I think we know who "thought not" 

 

Whilst I have your undivided attention I think you said you are going to Burgh Festival In AUG  Programme is out.

https://www.edfringe.com/experience/step-intotheunknown?utm_source=Edinburgh+Festival+Fringe+Public+Mailing+List&utm_campaign=89ba63c016-edfringe_Public_2018_06_06&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_610159ce34-89ba63c016-282070621&mc_cid=89ba63c016&mc_eid=5c4a106864

Edited June 6, 2018 by aright

[StreetCowboy]

15 minutes ago, aright said:

Why is it a serious issue. (1) Where, short term, are car manufacturers going to produce the 900000 cars produced annually in the UK and how would an immediate strike as a result of EU intransigence to a sensible settlement affect their sales. (2) How short and long term is Mercedes and other brands going to replace sales lost to the UK as a result of crippling tariffs? The UK is the largest market for Mercedes cars in Europe.

I would suggest it's easier to change the rules than the geography.

I think we know who "thought not" 

(1) Are all the European car manufacturers working flat out?  I'm sure they could raise their production to fill any market need that was previously filled by British cars; I'm sure BMW could produce their models at other factories fairly quickly, as could Nissan and the other British manufacturers.  It might be more of a struggle for Land Rover's owners.

(2) I'm not sure how big a fraction of Mercedes'  sales world-wide are in the UK, but I think that you will find they are not particularly price-sensitive.  People who want a Mercedes don't really care if other cars are cheaper.

 

Edited June 6, 2018 by StreetCowboy

[nontabury]

6 minutes ago, StreetCowboy said:

(1) Are all the European car manufacturers working flat out?  I'm sure they could raise their production to fill any market need that was previously filled by British cars; I'm sure BMW could produce their models at other factories fairly quickly, as could Nissan and the other British manufacturers.  It might be more of a struggle for Land Rover's owners.

(2) I'm not sure how big a fraction of Mercedes'  sales world-wide are in the UK, but I think that you will find they are not particularly price-sensitive.  People who want a Mercedes don't really care if other cars are cheaper.

 

Every time someone threatens you, do you always bend over?

Edited June 6, 2018 by nontabury

[StreetCowboy]

8 minutes ago, nontabury said:

Every time someone threatens you, do you always bend over?

I don't cut my nose off to spite my face.  

If I did, I would regret it when I came to put my glasses on.

I'm not sure everyone thinks that far ahead.

 

SC

 

Edit: thanks for adding the picture after I'd replied.  I'd not have wanted to quote it.

Edited June 6, 2018 by StreetCowboy

[7by7]

 

7 hours ago, aright said:

Not as meaningless as your answer. This is your system not mine. Almost a million people are living in the UK  illegally all being fed, watered, clothed and housed directly or indirectly by the system.

The key word there being illegally! As to how many are living in the UK, I don't know. Do you have a linlk to substantiate your claim that it's a million?

 

Obviously, or at least obvious to most, is the fact that because they are illegal they stay below the radar, don't claim benefits or social housing as to do so would bring them and their illegal presence in the UK to the attention of the authorities!

 

Of course, some are being fed and watered etc. by the system; those in immigration removal centres etc. awaiting deportation!

 

7 hours ago, aright said:

Less porous borders would help

If the UK's borders are as porous as you claim, why there are so many people camped out in the Pas de Calais attempting and failing to enter the UK?

 

One factor to consider is that if we don't reach an amicable agreement with the EU regarding migration then France may turn around and say the previous Anglo French agreement re border and immigration control is now defunct, let all those asylum seekers board a ferry to Dover and tell the UK government that they're our problem now!

 

7 hours ago, aright said:

TWO illegal immigrants have today admitted splurging more than £120,000 of taxpayers’ money after falsely claiming to be victims of the Grenfell Tower fire.

Elaine Douglas, 51, and Tommy Brooks, 52 - both Jamaican nationals who had stayed in Britain illegally for 16 years - racked up staggering bills after being put up at a four-star West London hotel after the blaze - including spending almost £20,000 on credit cards

So not fed and watered by the state, but caught red handed committing fraud! Like I say above, they stayed below the radar but then brought themselves to the attention of the authorities.

 

Grenfell Tower fire: Two admit £125,000 relief fraud

Quote

They were caught when council workers discovered their flat did not exist, Isleworth Crown Court heard.

The pair, both aged 51, pleaded guilty to two counts of fraud by false representation.

They also admitted one count of obtaining leave to remain in the UK by deception...…….

 

...…….The pair were remanded in custody until sentencing on 13 June

Hopefully that sentence will include a stay in an IRC followed by a one way ticket back to Jamaica,

 

But tell us, how would the UK not being in the EU have prevented their frauds?

7 hours ago, aright said:

Every illegal immigrant costs YOU £36K a year: The cost of migrant centres revealed

BRITISH taxpayers are forking out around £36,000 A YEAR to detain every illegal immigrant that sneaks across our borders.

You do know that the forum rules require a link when a poster quotes copyright material, don't you? That hysterical headline comes, surprise, surprise, from this Daily Express article.

 

Of course, had you read the article rather than just the headline you would know that it is arguing for the closure of expensive immigration removal centres, especially those run by private companies! A sentiment with which I agree; there must be both a more humane and more cost effective way of dealing with people suspected of being in the UK illegally or who are claiming asylum here.. Before you accuse me of such, I d not mean the wholesale amnesty for illegal immigrants that some have suggested.

 

[7by7]

6 hours ago, Grouse said:

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2017/06/free-movement-isnt-free-truth-about-eu-immigration

 

As I say, it is our own government that is responsible for not enforcing EU immigration control. 

 That 12 month old article is not totally correct; it has a lot of Brexiteer spin in it.

 

The economic treaty rights under the Freedom of Movement directive are:

• student;
• worker, employed or self employed;
• job seeker;
• person of independent means such as a pension.

If someone enters another EEA country as a job seeker but has not found work within three months then they should either leave or satisfy the appropriate authority in their host country that they have a reasonable chance of finding work in the very near future. 

 

EEA nationals are not subject to the same prohibition on public funds as non EEA nationals; but must not, as the article correctly states, become an unreasonable burden upon the state. So, unless they have independent means, which would entitle them to remain anyway, a job seeker would have to try and claim some form of public funds in order to live and so would bring themselves to the attention of those authorities!

 

As for the lack of border controls for EU nationals entering and leaving the UK, the same applies to all non visa nationals who can enter the UK as visitors without a visa. It works both ways, as well: when was the last time any British citizen here had their passport stamped when entering or leaving an EEA country? 

 

It is because of this that the number of EEA nationals living in the UK and the number of British nationals living in other EEA countries can only be an estimate; no one actually counts them in or out except, in the UK, the ONS when conducting the international passenger survey. Naturally this does not ask every person entering or leaving.

 

6 hours ago, Grouse said:

Leaving the EU will just bring in more of the people that I don't want and I suspect you don't either.

I wont ask you who those people you don't want are; but will remind you that if they are not EEA nationals then leaving the EU will have absolutely zero effect on their ability or otherwise to enter the UK!

[7by7]

6 hours ago, Grouse said:

You (7by7) are correct but our government fails to enforce the rules. And STILL the populist lemmings fail to see it!

 

Which rules? The immigration rules or the EEA regulations?

 

If you mean the immigration rules are not being enforced, have a read of the visas forum; many people there believe the rules are being enforced too strictly! 

 

Perhaps you could also explain the reported £36K a year being spent arresting, detaining and deporting illegal immigrants.

 

Of course, as repeatedly said, leaving the EU will have no effect on non EEA immigration into the UK as the rules are not the same and are the immigration rules are the purview of the UK government alone; nothing to do with the EU at all.

 

If you mean the EEA regulations; I refer you to my previous post.

[7by7]

6 hours ago, Grouse said:

7 hours ago, Kieran00001 said:

Jamaican illegal immigrants don't sneak across our borders, they fly in as tourists and then overstay, the only relationship to Brexit is the impression the Leave campaign gave to British citizens from commonwealth countries

What has this to do with Brexit?  Off topic, stupid or both

 Your question and comment should be addressed not to Kieran00001 but to aright, who brought these two Jamaicans into the topic!

[7by7]

6 hours ago, aright said:

It may have escaped your notice but after Brexit there will be no EU Freedom of Movements requirement however Europeans can still have access to the UK, but,  based on British rules(requirements) not the EU's.  

And British nationals will still have access to the EU, but based on Schengen visa requirements, not the FoM directive.

 

How are British pensioners, and criminals, intending to  retire to the Spanish Costas, for example, viewing that, I wonder? Maybe the avid Brexiteer @malagateddy can tell us (about the pensioners, not the criminals, of course)!

[7by7]

4 hours ago, nontabury said:

Before we joined the EEC, never mind the hated E.U. I was able to swan round Europe. So What is there to stop us from reverting to that access. “Ah” yes, those little tin pot dictators in Brussels and their back stabbing supporters in the U.K.

I am old enough to have travelled to Europe before we joined the EERC and yes, as a tourist no visa was required; but for any other purpose one was.

 

Unless some form of reciprocal arrangement is reached post Brexit, then reverting back to this, the same as already exists for nationals of other countries such as the USA, is the best that we can hope for.

 

 No more working in Europe without a visa, no more retiring to sunny Spain, or wherever, without a visa, etc., etc..

 

3 hours ago, StreetCowboy said:

And I am sure that for as long as we provide reciprocal access for EU citizens, we will maintain that privilege.  My understanding is that the Brexiteers hope to restrict that freedom, which restriction I am sure will be reciprocated

It seems to me from what I have read that what Brexiteers, certainly the most vocal of those on TV, want is for those nasty EU nationals to be stopped from coming to the UK, whilst they retain their rights to 'swan around Europe' for any purpose and at will!

[aright]

1 hour ago, 7by7 said:

 

The key word there being illegally! As to how many are living in the UK, I don't know. Do you have a linlk to substantiate your claim that it's a million?

 

https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/key-topics/illegal-immigration

Perhaps I was being too conservative

In 2010 Migration Watch UK estimated the illegal immigrant population at 1.1million (see here). In 2017 a former Head of Immigration Enforcement, David Wood, and a former speechwriter to the then Home Secretary (Theresa May) Alisdair Palmer claimed that the Home Office were of the opinion that each year as many as 150,000-250,000 foreign nationals fail to return home when they should or enter illegally, thus adding still further to the illegal migrant populaiton.

 

 

Obviously, or at least obvious to most, is the fact that because they are illegal they stay below the radar, don't claim benefits or social housing as to do so would bring them and their illegal presence in the UK to the attention of the authorities!

Of course, some are being fed and watered etc. by the system; those in immigration removal centres etc. awaiting deportation!

 

More than that what about those being exploited as a source of cheap labour because they don't have a NI number and those working the grey market.

 

If the UK's borders are as porous as you claim, why there are so many people camped out in the Pas de Calais attempting and failing to enter the UK?

Calais isn't the only way to get into the UK

• By entering the country undetected in a clandestine/illegal way, such as being smuggled in on a lorry from Calais.

• By entering the country legally, either for a short visit or for work, study or family reasons, and then subsequently remaining after his or her visa has expired.

• By failing to leave the country after a claim, and often also an appeal, for asylum has been rejected..

• Apparently Ireland is the new route   http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5811765/How-illegal-immigrants-smuggled-Britain-Irish-border.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490

•  

• 

 

 

1 hour ago, 7by7 said:

 

One factor to consider is that if we don't reach an amicable agreement with the EU regarding migration then France may turn around and say the previous Anglo French agreement re border and immigration control is now defunct, let all those asylum seekers board a ferry to Dover and tell the UK government that they're our problem now!

 

Yes it's a possibility and we should emphasize to the EU that immigrants are the responsibility of the country they first land in. This makes me desperately sad for Italy who the EU have left alone to deal with unmanageable levels of immigrants alone, in part leading to the rise of Euroscepticism and right wing parties.

 

So not fed and watered by the state, but caught red handed committing fraud! Like I say above, they stayed below the radar but then brought themselves to the attention of the authorities.

 

Grenfell Tower fire: Two admit £125,000 relief fraud

Hopefully that sentence will include a stay in an IRC followed by a one way ticket back to Jamaica,

 

But tell us, how would the UK not being in the EU have prevented their frauds?

It wouldn't they came in through the non EU channel. But hopefully after Brexit there will only be one channel with higher standards than the current system.We have to wait and see.

You do know that the forum rules require a link when a poster quotes copyright material, don't you? That hysterical headline comes, surprise, surprise, from this Daily Express article.

 

I accept that the daily Express is not every ones cup of tea but the Guardian isn't mine either.

 

Of course, had you read the article rather than just the headline you would know that it is arguing for the closure of expensive immigration removal centres, especially those run by private companies! A sentiment with which I agree;

 

Oh it's a hysteria you agree with then

 

there must be both a more humane and more cost effective way of dealing with people suspected of being in the UK illegally or who are claiming asylum here.. Before you accuse me of such, I d not mean the wholesale amnesty for illegal immigrants that some have suggested.

Thank god for that and I would never suggest anyone should be treated inhumanely. 

 

 

[Grouse]

3 hours ago, aright said:

Why is it a serious issue. Where, short term, are car manufacturers going to produce the 900000 cars produced annually in the UK and how would an immediate strike as a result of EU intransigence to a sensible settlement affect their sales. How short and long term is Mercedes and other brands going to replace sales lost to the UK as a result of crippling tariffs? The UK is the largest market for Mercedes cars in Europe.

I would suggest it's easier to change the rules than the geography.

I think we know who "thought not" 

 

Whilst I have your undivided attention I think you said you are going to Burgh Festival In AUG  Programme is out.

https://www.edfringe.com/experience/step-intotheunknown?utm_source=Edinburgh+Festival+Fringe+Public+Mailing+List&utm_campaign=89ba63c016-edfringe_Public_2018_06_06&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_610159ce34-89ba63c016-282070621&mc_cid=89ba63c016&mc_eid=5c4a106864

I think manufacturers will have to source more sub assemblies from within the EU. This is just like BMW building complete drive trains for the electric Mini in Germany but assembling in U.K. The Unipart boss was was very glum

 

Clearly Japan will want its cars for Europe classed as European. I'll bet this was part of the secret talks with TM.

 

As far as Porsche sales are concerned, 10% won't matter. If you want a Porsche that is what you will have.

Edited June 6, 2018 by Grouse

[aright]

24 minutes ago, Grouse said:

I think manufacturers will have to source more sub assemblies from within the EU. This is just like BMW building complete drive trains for the electric Mini in Germany but assembling in U.K. The Unipart boss was was very glum

 

Clearly Japan will want its cars for Europe classed as European. I'll bet this was part of the secret talks with TM.

 

As far as Porsche sales are concerned, 10% won't matter. If you want a Porsche that is what you will have.

Street Cowboy asked a perfectly reasonable question today as to the demographic  of a Mercedes buyer. I couldn't find one for the UK but found this for the USA. I expect similarity with the possible exception of salary.

 

"According to Mercedes-Benz, 64 percent of its buyers are male, 64 percent college-educated, 63 percent in a professional or managerial position, 81 percent married and the median age is 48 and median income $119,500."

 

Yes Merc buyers are upper quartile but they live up to the extent of their incomes(My son a great example....I always end up buying the drinks) . I am not talking a modest increase in tariff but a cynical eye watering one . I agree talks have already taken place otherwise more noise would be being made. I can also see, in light of our  experience and success with high speed assembly lines,  a consortium to produce an all British car. Dyson is already designing an electric car IMO his battery technology is second to none and as an Engineer he is top shelf.  Norton and Triumph  can't produce enough bikes to keep the global market happy. On the basis of their brand names they surely must eventually  consider mass production.  

Japan can still claim their cars are European , the UK is not leaving Europe. I'm not so sure that is so important any more anyway. Kia only has a design center in Europe but they sell plenty of cars here. I have never owned one but have a friend who swears by them.

As for sourcing sub assemblies the winner will be the manufacturer  who can deliver and meet the standards at the best price....whatever country.

[aright]

3 hours ago, 7by7 said:

Quote

 

It seems to me from what I have read that what Brexiteers, certainly the most vocal of those on TV, want is for those nasty EU nationals to be stopped from coming to the UK, whilst they retain their rights to 'swan around Europe' for any purpose and at will!

I do business in France and Germany ,travel there regularly and I have immense respect for their citizens whilst I have no respect whatsoever for the unelected, undemocratic, European Cabal responsible for governance in the EU. You shouldn't conflate them. Outside normal social banter perhaps you could identify those people and their contribution which leads you to feel, they feel, EU nationals are nasty and should be stopped from coming to the UK. I'm sure you would agree guilt by implication is not fair or indeed the British way.

[sandyf]

6 hours ago, Grouse said:

May I bring up country of origin?

 

Having a Euro1 rating for one's product is a big deal; the product can be sold as an EU product under dozens of trade deals.

 

UK products including cars will not qualify unless they are at least 55% manufactured in the EU. This applies equally to EU products with U.K. Sub assemblies.

 

Have any of the populists ANY idea how serious this issue is?

 

No. Thought not.....

"Origin" was always a serious issue prior to the single market, Certs of Origin were a way of life, something the brexiteers have preferred to ignore.

Typically, being reminded gets branded as "dirty tricks".

The EU effectively created a huge domestic market with a common origin but some seem to think you can be an outsider and still claim the same origin.

[Orac]

"Origin" was always a serious issue prior to the single market, Certs of Origin were a way of life, something the brexiteers have preferred to ignore.
Typically, being reminded gets branded as "dirty tricks".
The EU effectively created a huge domestic market with a common origin but some seem to think you can be an outsider and still claim the same origin.

Also a bit cart before the horse.

Origin problems are only going to be an issue under a ‘deal’ scenario since, without one, virtually all goods moving from the U.K. to EU would be classed as third country and subject to EU external tariff - Certs of Origin for reasons other than tariff agreements would be another issue.

Once, and if, a deal is reached then originating and documentation requirements can be discussed which would need to include document types, inspection regimes and document issuing authority - I remember the good old days back in the 80,s shuttling back and forth to local Chambers of Commerce to get EUR1s authorised and T2L batches for EC airfreight shipments.


Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Chomper Higgot]

Having watched PMQ yesterday and witnessed the ‘hounded’ look on Weak and Wobbly’s face I’m sure of two things.

 

1. The government has lost all control of Brexit.

2. Weak and Wobbly has lost all control of the government.

 

We can now look forward to a restart of the bitter internal fight within the Tory party that the referendum was meant to put an end to.

 

[tebee]

2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Having watched PMQ yesterday and witnessed the ‘hounded’ look on Weak and Wobbly’s face I’m sure of two things.

 

1. The government has lost all control of Brexit.

2. Weak and Wobbly has lost all control of the government.

 

We can now look forward to a restart of the bitter internal fight within the Tory party that the referendum was meant to put an end to.

 

Yes, but there is this little problem we need to get this brexit thing sorted out soon, otherwise we career out of the EU in 9 months with no deal and no direction.

[Grouse]

6 hours ago, aright said:

Street Cowboy asked a perfectly reasonable question today as to the demographic  of a Mercedes buyer. I couldn't find one for the UK but found this for the USA. I expect similarity with the possible exception of salary.

 

"According to Mercedes-Benz, 64 percent of its buyers are male, 64 percent college-educated, 63 percent in a professional or managerial position, 81 percent married and the median age is 48 and median income $119,500."

 

Yes Merc buyers are upper quartile but they live up to the extent of their incomes(My son a great example....I always end up buying the drinks) . I am not talking a modest increase in tariff but a cynical eye watering one . I agree talks have already taken place otherwise more noise would be being made. I can also see, in light of our  experience and success with high speed assembly lines,  a consortium to produce an all British car. Dyson is already designing an electric car IMO his battery technology is second to none and as an Engineer he is top shelf.  Norton and Triumph  can't produce enough bikes to keep the global market happy. On the basis of their brand names they surely must eventually  consider mass production.  

Japan can still claim their cars are European , the UK is not leaving Europe. I'm not so sure that is so important any more anyway. Kia only has a design center in Europe but they sell plenty of cars here. I have never owned one but have a friend who swears by them.

As for sourcing sub assemblies the winner will be the manufacturer  who can deliver and meet the standards at the best price....whatever country.

Thanks for all that!

 

The issue for Japanese car manufacturers are that they do use Japanese manufactured sub assemblies. If UK is not in EEA, local assembly and local components will not help them have at least 55% European content and their vehicles will carry a 10% tariff. That is significant if you are competing with PSA, Fiat, VW. I think Land Rover Jaguar will not be affected significantly. UK component manufacturers will be hit. Lucas? Ferodo?

[Grouse]

5 hours ago, sandyf said:

"Origin" was always a serious issue prior to the single market, Certs of Origin were a way of life, something the brexiteers have preferred to ignore.

Typically, being reminded gets branded as "dirty tricks".

The EU effectively created a huge domestic market with a common origin but some seem to think you can be an outsider and still claim the same origin.

Good to hear from you! Have you been away?

[Grouse]

6 hours ago, aright said:

According to Mercedes-Benz, 64 percent of its buyers are male, 64 percent college-educated, 63 percent in a professional or managerial position, 81 percent married and the median age is 48 and median income $119,500."

Presumably remainders then! ?

[Grouse]

25 minutes ago, tebee said:

Yes, but there is this little problem we need to get this brexit thing sorted out soon, otherwise we career out of the EU in 9 months with no deal and no direction.

Indeed! I worry that if we leave and then rejoin we lose very important rebates and exemptions. What is the point of leaving if the status quo remains for at least two or three years.

 

If Corbyn and his acolytes stymie the current bid to remain in the EEA/SM/CU he will betray the very people Labour are supposed to represent 

[The Boss]

On 5/30/2018 at 8:20 PM, The Renegade said:

Are you sure Boss ?

 

I thought it was the dirty, underhand tricks thrown about like rice at a Chinese wedding in an attempt to thwart Brexit that caused the chaos.

I am absolutely sure that the UK government is incompetent AND I am absolutely sure a class of 5 year olds would a) be more honest, b) be more open, c) be NO LESS competent, than the idiots in charge now. It will just get worse as long as the tories are in power, sadly though the opposition is equally clueless... I remember why I left now!!!

Edited June 7, 2018 by The Boss

[StreetCowboy]

6 minutes ago, The Boss said:

I am absolutely sure that the UK government is incompetent AND I am absolutely sure a class of 5 year olds would a) be more honest, b) be more open, c) be NO LESS competent, than the idiots in charge now. It will just get worse as long as the tories are in power, sadly though the opposition is equally clueless... I remember why I left now!!!

Once we're free of the malevolent weight of Brussels, our elected politicians will shine like beacons, and the country will be united in joy - Strength Through Joy!  

 

And if our elected politicians fail us, we'll find other politicians.  The people will speak!  It'll be great!

 

SC

 

[The Renegade]

7 minutes ago, The Boss said:

I am absolutely sure that the UK government is incompetent AND I am absolutely sure a class of 5 year olds would a) be more honest, b) be more open, c) be NO LESS competent, than the idiots in charge now. It will just get worse as long as the tories are in power, sadly though the opposition is equally clueless... I remember why I left now!!!

That's fantastic. At least we get the opportunity to vote them out every 5 years.

 

Can you tell me when we get to vote out the same incompetents, intrasingent's and idiots that make up the European Commission ?

 

You know, the lot that are the real power in the EU and have nothing more in mind than gathering even more power for themselves.