Brexit has created chaos in Britain – nobody voted for this

[transam]

2 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

You have pointed out what it says in your passport, quite a different thing to what the word means. 

Read the below, are you a person who has come to like permanently in a foreign country?  If so then you are an immigrant, end of.

im·mi·grant

ˈiməɡrənt/

noun

 

1. a person who comes to live permanently in a foreign country.

Seems you really don't understand why it says NON immigrant, it means you ain't living here permanently, when on has been given permission to live here permanently the PP will have different wording....YES/NO...?..

[Kieran00001]

Just now, vogie said:

It is not up to me whether I intend to stay, it is up to Thailand. Should I run out of money do you think Thai Immigration will say 'he plans to stay, we cannot send him home' 

And if it's ok with you I will listen to Thai Immigration and not something you have researched on google.

 

 

Immigrants face all sorts of challenges in their new countries, I didn't say you were a citizen, I said you were an immigrant.  Immigrants from outside the Eu also have to show funds to remain in the UK and can be deported at any time, they are immigrants none the less.  And it doesn't say immigrant in their passport, it says long term visitor, but no doubt you consider those who come to live permanently in the UK as immigrants, right?

[dick dasterdly]

Just now, Chomper Higgot said:

It’s happened to many a Farang migrant in Thailand.

 

They Head back to ‘Farangland’ with their Thai family in tow demanding to be treated with humanity, welfare, healthcare, housing.

That's an entirely different argument - (as is Kierran10001's argument).  I'm only arguing with him as his point is so ridiculous.

[Kieran00001]

4 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

I'd like to believe you are joking.

 

Do you live in Thailand?  And if so, do you seriously believe that you can remain if you fail to meet the Immigration necessities?

 

 

 

You're projecting, not all of us immigrants are so stupid as to try to remain permanently on non immigrant visas.

[Kieran00001]

1 minute ago, transam said:

Seems you really don't understand why it says NON immigrant, it means you ain't living here permanently, when on has been given permission to live here permanently the PP will have different wording....YES/NO...?..

 

Are the people who come to live in the UK immigrants or not?  It takes a minimum of 5 years to get citizenship, are you trying to tell us that they are not classed as immigrants for the first 5 years and instead you consider them to be your visitors, seeing as that is what it says in their passport?

[transam]

2 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

You're projecting, not all of us immigrants are so stupid as to try to remain permanently on non immigrant visas.

You are now trolling....If you go on the other back foot you will fall over....

[Kieran00001]

3 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

That's an entirely different argument - (as is Kierran10001's argument).  I'm only arguing with him as his point is so ridiculous.

 

My point is regarding what the word means rather than a made up Thai legal term.

[dick dasterdly]

Just now, Kieran00001 said:

 

You're projecting, not all of us immigrants are so stupid as to try to remain permanently on non immigrant visas.

Good for you if you were lucky enough to obtain Thai citizenship.

 

The rest of us are 'guests' that can be thrown out if we ever fail to meet the monetary requirements.

[vogie]

1 minute ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

Immigrants face all sorts of challenges in their new countries, I didn't say you were a citizen, I said you were an immigrant.  Immigrants from outside the Eu also have to show funds to remain in the UK and can be deported at any time, they are immigrants none the less.  And it doesn't say immigrant in their passport, it says long term visitor, but no doubt you consider those who come to live permanently in the UK as immigrants, right?

Most people that come to Thailand do not know how long they are going to be staying for, the non immo may have his reasons to return home or Thailand may have there reasons to return you home. We have to report every 90 days which means we are non immigrants, how often do they have to report in the UK?

Incidentely are you a non immigrant of Thailand?

[Kieran00001]

Just now, dick dasterdly said:

Good for you if you were lucky enough to obtain Thai citizenship.

 

The rest of us are 'guests' that can be thrown out if we ever fail to meet the monetary requirements.

 

As are the 'visitors' to the UK who can remain for up to 10 years working in the UK and being referred to by rational people as immigrants while also classified by immigration as visitors and liable to be thrown out should they fail to meet the financial requirements, but hey ho, no doubt you at least think you are different to them.

[Chomper Higgot]

7 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

That's an entirely different argument - (as is Kierran10001's argument).  I'm only arguing with him as his point is so ridiculous.

My point is, much of the illegal immigration in the UK, which you yourself accept Remain supporters object to, has come about as a direct result of Therese May slashing the staff and budget of UK Borders Agency.

 

And that’s putting aside the fact that the vast majority of illegal immigration has absolutely nothing to do with the UK’s membership of the EU.

 

Illegal immigration was conflated in the Brexit debate by Farage, the Daily Mail and their use of demonizing immigrants.

 

Thersa May’s cuts to the UK Borders Agency has far more impact on the increase in illegal immigrants than the UK’s membership of the EU ever did.

Edited June 12, 2018 by Chomper Higgot

[7by7]

8 hours ago, notmyself said:

<snip>

What about the message you sent to the entire electorate when you very quietly signed all EU law into UK law April last year while quickly running a general election on 8th June to cover up news of it.

Quietly?

 

Cover Up?

 

It was all over the UK media, broadcast, print and electronic, here in Blighty at the time! You must have missed it for some reason, were you in the UK last April? It was even discussed here on TV, though I'm not sure whether it was in this topic or another.

 

The reasons for so doing were explained in a white paper issued at the time: Legislating for the United Kingdom’s withdrawal from the European Union

Quote

Our decision to convert the ‘acquis’ – the body of European legislation – into UK law at the moment we repeal the European Communities Act is an essential part of this plan.

This approach will provide maximum certainty as we leave the EU. The same rules and laws will apply on the day after exit as on the day before. It will then be for democratically elected representatives in the UK to decide on any changes to that law, after full scrutiny and proper debate.

 But maybe you'd prefer the chaos of businesses, employers, ordinary people not knowing which laws still applied and which didn't!

[dick dasterdly]

Just now, Kieran00001 said:

 

Are the people who come to live in the UK immigrants or not?  It takes a minimum of 5 years to get citizenship, are you trying to tell us that they are not classed as immigrants for the first 5 years and instead you consider them to be your visitors, seeing as that is what it says in their passport?

I've lived here 12 years and know that there is minimal chance of gaining Thai citizenship..

 

Admittedly, not a problem - as long as I can meet the financial standards necessary.

 

Trying to get this back to the original point - those without sufficient funds or a well-paid job, should never be allowed into the uk to 'look for' a job.

[Chomper Higgot]

I know this is a Thailand based forum but by what twisted logic does the Thai definition of immigration status apply in the UK?

 

[transam]

16 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

You're projecting, not all of us immigrants are so stupid as to try to remain permanently on non immigrant visas.

So pray tell what visa you have, how did you get it...It may help us Lo-so's non folk...

[owl sees all]

dear, dear dear.

 

What utter rubbish; spoiling a good thread.

 

I'll come back in a week or two.

[dick dasterdly]

Just now, Kieran00001 said:

 

As are the 'visitors' to the UK who can remain for up to 10 years working in the UK and being referred to by rational people as immigrants while also classified by immigration as visitors and liable to be thrown out should they fail to meet the financial requirements, but hey ho, no doubt you at least think you are different to them.

??

 

I thought eu immigrants had (according to law., but never enforced.....) 3 months to find a job.

 

But I'd be very interested to hear about an eu immigrant that was deported.

 

Can't be bothered to respond to " liable to be thrown out should they fail to meet the financial requirements, but hey ho, no doubt you at least think you are different to them"

 

- as it's so obviously drivel.

[7by7]

3 hours ago, The Renegade said:

Of course it has nothing to do with the EU ??

 

That is why they are tramping all through the EU to reach places like Calais, so that they can Illegally enter the UK.

 I though we had done this to death a few pages ago; but you obviously failed to understand.

 

Non EEA national immigration is a matter for individual member states, not the EU. However, most EU members signed the Schengen agreement to rationalise non EEA national immigration so that the same rules and requirements apply for all.

 

The Schengen agreement means that a visa issued by one Schengen area state is valid for all Schengen area states. This led to the removal land border controls between these states; but the current crisis has meant that some are reinstating them.

 

BUT:-

 

The UK and the RoI did not sign the agreement.

 

The UK and RoI are not, and never have been,  part of the Schengen area. There is no free movement of non EEA nationals between the Schengen states and the UK and the RoI. Even those non EEA nationals who are qualified family members of an EEA national and are travelling with their EEA national family member need the appropriate visa to enter the UK or RoI.

 

That is why the migrants, refugees, call them what you will have reached Calais and other channel ports but got no further; unless they can sneak onto a vehicle of some kind to cross the channel and enter the UK illegally.

 

Blaming the EU for illegal immigration into the UK is yet another Brexiteer myth.

 

Got it now?

 

 

[transam]

30 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

You're projecting, not all of us immigrants are so stupid as to try to remain permanently on non immigrant visas.

Don't be shy, tell us your LOS status, us non-immigrant folk may learn something..?

 

Go for it....

[The Renegade]

21 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I know this is a Thailand based forum but by what twisted logic does the Thai definition of immigration status apply in the UK?

 

Does it really matter ?

 

The same twisted logic that had you screaming the Daily Mail had 17,000,000 readers.

 

Shoite logic.

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

Largely irrelevant IMO.

 

I've nothing against well-paid immigrants of any nationality being offered jobs in the UK, if there is a shortage of staff in that well-paid area.  But then we need to wonder why there is a shortage of staff in that well-paid area....

 

My problem starts when immigrants (with no hope of anything other than a job offering the lowest pay) are allowed into the country.

There are EU accepted rules that may be implemented including one must be employed within 3 months of arrival. Our government declines to apply these for unknown reasons.

[7by7]

I see that, yet again, those Thai residents who are anti immigration to the UK are claiming that they are not 'anti immigration immigrants' because their visas say 'non immigrant' and so they have no permanent residence in Thailand.

 

In that case, they must agree that all those in the UK with student visas, work visas, family visas etc. cannot be immigrants. Even those who have obtained Indefinite Leave to Remain cannot be immigrants because indefinite is not permanent!

 

If this were the case, the UK's net migration figure would paint a very different picture!

 

 

[The Renegade]

1 minute ago, 7by7 said:

 I though we had done this to death a few pages ago; but you obviously failed to understand.

There is nothing to fail to understand that going back to the 80's, and probably before, Illegal's have moved across the EU making their way to places like Calais, in attempt to enter the UK illegally.

 

Nothing to do with freedom of movement.

 

Nothing to do with Schengen.

 

4 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

Blaming the EU for illegal immigration into the UK is yet another Brexiteer myth.

 

Got it now?

If there are Illegal's tramping all over the EU to get to places like Calais, before trying to get to the UK illegally, then yes, the buck stops with the EU as they should not be tramping all over the EU in the first place.

 

Got it now ?

[Chomper Higgot]

8 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

Does it really matter ?

 

The same twisted logic that had you screaming the Daily Mail had 17,000,000 readers.

 

Shoite logic.

You are correct, I was wrong, the DM readership is just over 13,000,000, the Daily Mail Group readership just over 14,300,000.

 

So somewhere over 13,000,000 people regularly read the DM’s demonization of immigrants during the run up to the referendum.

 

The Thai definition of immigration and immigrants status has absolutely no bearing on that of the UK (but it makes a nice distraction when you’re stuck for a sensible argument).

 

[7by7]

19 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

<snip>

But I'd be very interested to hear about an eu immigrant that was deported.

See  5. Enforced returns of EU nationals in this Home Office document

Quote

EU nationals may be returned for not exercising, or abusing, Treaty rights or for deportation on public policy grounds (such as criminality).

There were 20% more enforced returns (5,301) of EU nationals in the year ending June 2017 compared with the previous 12 months (4,424), and 26% more EU nationals were refused entry at port and who subsequently departed (2,726 compared to 2,158). Nationals of Romania and Poland counted for 60% of EU enforced returns compared to 57% the same time a year ago.

 

[transam]

10 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

I see that, yet again, those Thai residents who are anti immigration to the UK are claiming that they are not 'anti immigration immigrants' because their visas say 'non immigrant' and so they have no permanent residence in Thailand.

 

In that case, they must agree that all those in the UK with student visas, work visas, family visas etc. cannot be immigrants. Even those who have obtained Indefinite Leave to Remain cannot be immigrants because indefinite is not permanent!

 

If this were the case, the UK's net migration figure would paint a very different picture!

 

 

Why does LOS put non-immigrant in a PP...?

[dick dasterdly]

Just now, 7by7 said:

I see that, yet again, those Thai residents who are anti immigration to the UK are claiming that they are not 'anti immigration immigrants' because their visas say 'non immigrant' and so they have no permanent residence in Thailand.

 

In that case, they must agree that all those in the UK with student visas, work visas, family visas etc. cannot be immigrants. Even those who have obtained Indefinite Leave to Remain cannot be immigrants because indefinite is not permanent!

 

If this were the case, the UK's net migration figure would paint a very different picture!

 

 

Un-suprisingly, you misunderstand.

 

Those of us who move to Thailand are very aware that we can be thrown out at any time if we fail to meet the financial requirements.

 

We aren't 'refugees' that Thailand will consider providing residence rights.

 

But now I'm digressing from eu freedom of movement (!) - which is one of my dislikes about the eu.

 

Time to harden our hearts and ignore those trying to derail the topic!

[The Renegade]

3 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

You are correct, I was wrong, the DM readership is just over 13,000,000, the Daily Mail Group readership just over 14,300,000.

 

So somewhere over 13,000,000 people regularly read the DM’s demonization of immigrants during the run up to the referendum.

And still you continue with garbage and still get it wrong.

 

Quote

This statistic displays the circulation of The Daily Mail in the United Kingdom from the first half of 2003 to the second half of 2016. As of the second half of 2015, The Daily Mail had a circulation rate of 1.5 million copies.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/288261/circulation-trend-of-the-daily-mail-newspaper-uk/

 

Hoot Hoot.

[Chomper Higgot]

11 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

There is nothing to fail to understand that going back to the 80's, and probably before, Illegal's have moved across the EU making their way to places like Calais, in attempt to enter the UK illegally.

 

Nothing to do with freedom of movement.

 

Nothing to do with Schengen.

 

If there are Illegal's tramping all over the EU to get to places like Calais, before trying to get to the UK illegally, then yes, the buck stops with the EU as they should not be tramping all over the EU in the first place.

 

Got it now ?

One of the proposals to prevent illegL immigrants travelling through Europe is an integrated EU Boarder Security Organization.

 

https://fullfact.org/europe/new-eu-border-agency-or-eu-army/

[7by7]

8 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

There is nothing to fail to understand that going back to the 80's, and probably before, Illegal's have moved across the EU making their way to places like Calais, in attempt to enter the UK illegally.

 

Nothing to do with freedom of movement.

 

Nothing to do with Schengen.

 

If there are Illegal's tramping all over the EU to get to places like Calais, before trying to get to the UK illegally, then yes, the buck stops with the EU as they should not be tramping all over the EU in the first place.

 

Got it now ?

They are, as you put it, 'tramping all over the EU' because of the removal of border controls between Schengen area members. 

 

These border controls can be reintroduced; and some have been: Temporary Reintroduction of Border Control.

 

But none of this applies to the UK because

1. Freedom of movement only applies to non EEA nationals qualifying family members of an EEA national who are travelling with or to join said family member and
2. the UK is not in the Schengen area.

You can repeat the lie that the EU controls non EEA national immigration, legal and illegal, to the UK as often as you wish; but lie it is.