18 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

I'm sure many Germans felt at ease with the people in the UK in 1913, I don't think that the masses on either side saw the logic in an English baker trying to kill a German baker or vice versa, but of course the masses are easily manipulated and the dead can't complain.

Same same 1938, taking sheep to the abatoir.

The UK is leaving the fraudulent..corrupt..autocratic..eu which is run by unelected jobsworths..who gave them the power that they have??

Why don't the remoaners accept defeat gracefully and get on with supporting the UK now.??

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3 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

but like the masses even the state is dependant on circumstances in the world. the word sovereign has no real meaning,even a medieval king was dependant on his lords and acted on his own wishes at his peril.

Circumstances can be tackled in different ways if the state has

sovreignty, 

1 minute ago, malagateddy said:

The UK is leaving the fraudulent..corrupt..autocratic..eu which is run by unelected jobsworths..who gave them the power that they have??

Why don't the remoaners accept defeat gracefully and get on with supporting the UK now.??

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No-one gave them power, they stole it from us.

1 minute ago, talahtnut said:

Same same 1938, taking sheep to the abatoir.

Quite, I remember sitting outside my favourite cafe in the medieval town of Freising in Germany, it was next to an old church and on its walls were two plaques one over the other, they concerned the two world wars. The top one was for the 14-18 war, lest we forget sort of thing,this as a warning that such an event shall never take place again.The second was for the 39-45 war, remembering the dead, this as a warning that such an event shall never take place again, I think the irony was lost on most. The young had a different take, there is a monument to the civilians who lost their lives to the bombing in Freising (near Munich,so collateral damage) it read in memory of the 119 civilians who lost their lives....etc. The monument is flanked by two statues of lions, someone, obviously youths, had written under the 119 civilians, 'and two lions', in other words, spare us the BS.

4 minutes ago, talahtnut said:

No-one gave them power, they stole it from us.

Us? you personally never had any power in the first place.

7 minutes ago, talahtnut said:

Circumstances can be tackled in different ways if the state has

sovreignty, 

There are only logical ways to deal with circumstances which are forced on a country and they are usually dealt with by a very efficient civil service,the backbone of every country and in effect the true rulers outside the establishment but even the establishment can be manipulated by a civil service that 'has seen it all before', 'Sir Humphrey' is truer than we think. Nobody is sovereign.

14 minutes ago, malagateddy said:

The UK is leaving the fraudulent..corrupt..autocratic..eu which is run by unelected jobsworths..who gave them the power that they have??

Why don't the remoaners accept defeat gracefully and get on with supporting the UK now.??

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because the 52-48% result isn't considered a viable majority, what is taking place at the moment in the UK, the arguments back and forth is an expression of democracy at work.

5 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

There are only logical ways to deal with circumstances which are forced on a country and they are usually dealt with by a very efficient civil service,the backbone of every country and in effect the true rulers outside the establishment but even the establishment can be manipulated by a civil service that 'has seen it all before', 'Sir Humphrey' is truer than we think. Nobody is sovereign.

Correct again, the present cabinet secretary Sir Jeremy Hayward

is the most powerful individual in the UK.

Nobody is sovereign is correct, but the state could be..

If it were free of EU shackles.

 

 

 

S/bundy..who does not consider 52/48 a viable majority???
A difference of 4 seems clear enough to me.
Would you like the best of 3..5..7..9..etc???
Matter of interest..are you British and if so did you use your vote in the referendum

One more point..I would love the Govt to have a massive clear out of civil service jobsworths!!!

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Britain voted for the Brexit , in the hope the Goverment in BG helps,to move incomes,security,and freedom

 

it was clear it would fail , already beore the votings

Gb goverment is only helping financials and multinationlas to stay, by reucing taxes for them. The regular citizen will pay the bill.

 

But i am not sad, bcs the regular citizen voted for the Brexit

 

GB was never a full euopean member, who belives in the values of the EU. They always blocked the Eu from going forward.

 

I pleased with  the voting for the Brexit , bcs i think for the EU it brings a lot of future prospective, without the  hassle that Gb was done over the last centurys

 

There are other countrys .would fit into the Eu, much better than GB , in the long run.

 

GB thinks  they special..ok..move forward alone, the great empire is a thing of the past

 

i still belive in the values of the Eu , but if the EU alloud to stop the exit of GB, and give them again advantages to stay, than i ,as a european citizen , would loose the faith in the values of the EU.

 

i think europe is better off  without GB , but GB would be better on track with the EU...but hopefully its a thing of the past.

 

and in many posts i read home shortage is bcs of foreigners ,and racist posts, i think,GB is better out. sure to many immigrants, but not everything is their fault,and just think about britains econommy without foreign immigrant workers.....................

 

25 minutes ago, malagateddy said:

S/bundy..who does not consider 52/48 a viable majority???
A difference of 4 seems clear enough to me.
Would you like the best of 3..5..7..9..etc???
Matter of interest..are you British and if so did you use your vote in the referendum

One more point..I would love the Govt to have a massive clear out of civil service jobsworths!!!

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Check with Farage why 52-48 is not a viable majority.

25 minutes ago, talahtnut said:

Correct again, the present cabinet secretary Sir Jeremy Hayward

is the most powerful individual in the UK.

Nobody is sovereign is correct, but the state could be..

If it were free of EU shackles.

 

 

 

I don't know about all the shackles of course but many made good sense,environmental rules, caps on overfishing, workers rights, caps on debt (frequently ignored but it's a start) rules on food hygiene etc. Certainly there is cause for complaint over unnecessary meddling but all in all I found it good.

34 minutes ago, malagateddy said:

S/bundy..who does not consider 52/48 a viable majority???
A difference of 4 seems clear enough to me.
Would you like the best of 3..5..7..9..etc???
Matter of interest..are you British and if so did you use your vote in the referendum

One more point..I would love the Govt to have a massive clear out of civil service jobsworths!!!

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Yes, I am British, no I did not vote I wasn't allowed not having lived in the UK for so long, and a difference of 4 is not sufficient for such an important question that will affect the lives of so many but that was the fault of an incapable government which didn't stipulate what makes up a defining majority.

36 minutes ago, malagateddy said:

S/bundy..who does not consider 52/48 a viable majority???
A difference of 4 seems clear enough to me.
Would you like the best of 3..5..7..9..etc???
Matter of interest..are you British and if so did you use your vote in the referendum

One more point..I would love the Govt to have a massive clear out of civil service jobsworths!!!

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You may get your wish regarding the clear out since there may well not be enough money to keep them all employed. Unfortunately, that may also mean that others have to go, including people you don't consider to be jobsworths.

Plenty unemployed British people to fill thr job vacancies I believe..re the NHS bei g short-staffed..many qualified people globally to take their place..of course they would have to be educated..eg..english language skills..have no criminal record etc etc
No more eastern eu uneducated gangsters who milk the system whilst they engage in their " careers"...organised crime.. people trafficking..child prostitution..drugs..protection rackets..shop-lifting..etc.
The UK needs s big " clear out " of the lowlife imo

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2 minutes ago, malagateddy said:

Plenty unemployed British people to fill thr job vacancies I believe..re the NHS bei g short-staffed..many qualified people globally to take their place..of course they would have to be educated..eg..english language skills..have no criminal record etc etc
No more eastern eu uneducated gangsters who milk the system whilst they engage in their " careers"...organised crime.. people trafficking..child prostitution..drugs..protection rackets..shop-lifting..etc.
The UK needs s big " clear out " of the lowlife imo

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British industry doesn't agree with you that there's plenty of British unemployed people who are suitably qualified and skilled to take those jobs. 

5 minutes ago, malagateddy said:

Plenty unemployed British people to fill thr job vacancies I believe..re the NHS bei g short-staffed..many qualified people globally to take their place..of course they would have to be educated..eg..english language skills..have no criminal record etc etc
No more eastern eu uneducated gangsters who milk the system whilst they engage in their " careers"...organised crime.. people trafficking..child prostitution..drugs..protection rackets..shop-lifting..etc.
The UK needs s big " clear out " of the lowlife imo

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Try being a little more dispassionate, you'll give yourself a heart attack. 

2 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

British industry doesn't agree with you that there's plenty of British unemployed people who are suitably qualified and skilled to take those jobs. 

That also goes for the employers dissatisfaction with the 'skills' of some school leavers,some of whom are only semi literate.

2 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

That also goes for the employers dissatisfaction with the 'skills' of some school leavers,some of whom are only semi literate.

Agreed fully, that was actually what I was referring to in part.

2 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

Unsurprisingly you have not understood the question. The question I put forward is hypothetical, it asks you at what point of economic duress would you reconsider your position. The question doesn't need to consider contagion and it doesn't need to consider other aspects of the Brexit vote, it merely asks what your economic threshold for pain might be, how much economic change you're willing to tolerate, despite all other factors. So you have your independence, your blue passports, your fishing and farming and rule making and your free from external interference from overseas, is all that worth suffering on the economic front and to what degree?  

I understood but how can anyone define a threshold? Unsurprisingly you start off with a condescending remark.

 

I have answered the way I did because if things were to become as economically dire as your examples, then the conditions in the rest of Europe would be at least as bad. You say that the question doesn't need to consider other factors but I disagree.  It all has to be balanced. The EU overall, as it is, is bad for Europe as a whole and that's the most important reason to get out. Leaving is worth it, even at a very high economic cost.

 

The EU continues to be guilty of biased, corrupt and wasteful behaviour and it does not take financial responsibility seriously. If it is allowed to continue like this, then the overall cost will increase significantly for all member states. When the present beneficiary states are pressed to start contributing, then the whole thing will collapse anyway - a mess we don't want to be part of.  

1 minute ago, nauseus said:

I understood but how can anyone define a threshold? Unsurprisingly you start off with a condescending remark.

 

I have answered the way I did because if things were to become as economically dire as your examples, then the conditions in the rest of Europe would be at least as bad. You say that the question doesn't need to consider other factors but I disagree.  It all has to be balanced. The EU overall, as it is, is bad for Europe as a whole and that's the most important reason to get out. Leaving is worth it, even at a very high economic cost.

 

The EU continues to be guilty of biased, corrupt and wasteful behaviour and it does not take financial responsibility seriously. If it is allowed to continue like this, then the overall cost will increase significantly for all member states. When the present beneficiary states are pressed to start contributing, then the whole thing will collapse anyway - a mess we don't want to be part of.  

You don't need to understand the condition of your neighbour's property before deciding if your own is suitable for habitation! The question stands as is, it;'s your personal threshold not an economics thesis!

They could be trained..or employ immigrants from eg..Canada..Oz..etc?

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7 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

You don't need to understand the condition of your neighbour's property before deciding if your own is suitable for habitation! The question stands as is, it;'s your personal threshold not an economics thesis!

My personal view already stated "Leaving is worth it, even at a very high economic cost". Interpret that as you will. Your question can stand but it will get lonely on the shelf! With your demands and conditions, you sound like Barnier. 

 

I have a flat tyre to sort out. Time better spent and all that.

One year to Brexit: the future is bright

 

Mr Downer said the UK projected more “soft power” through its arts, education, political institutions and legal system than any other country in the world and would continue to do so.

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/2018/03/29/one-year-brexit-future-bright/

 

 

17 minutes ago, malagateddy said:

They could be trained..or employ immigrants from eg..Canada..Oz..etc?

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It's more like the other way round, most of my family have left the UK for Oz. My brother, who owns a firm in London, would rather fly to the UK every 3 months and let the board of directors run the firm than continue to live in London. 

57 minutes ago, nauseus said:

My personal view already stated "Leaving is worth it, even at a very high economic cost". Interpret that as you will. Your question can stand but it will get lonely on the shelf! With your demands and conditions, you sound like Barnier. 

 

I have a flat tyre to sort out. Time better spent and all that.

Thankyou, I'll put your name alongside your two chums, "too difficult to answer". Things are not looking too good for team Brexit at this juncture, three out of three couldn't answer a simple question.

I still can't understand how so called British people still want to reverse the democratic referendum. Also those still winging on wanting to reverse the decision and quite frankly are happy to see the UK to lose jobs and businesses to prove a point. how very patriotic those posters are.

 

Whether you agree or not you should be behind your country, buying British and wanting the best for your country. If you are unhappy vote at the next election for the idiots (IMO) for Corbyn or Cable.

 

In a Thai forum and Thai's have their own problem but one thing they do have it national pride and unity. Its something that many British would do good to mirror.

2 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

I still can't understand how so called British people still want to reverse the democratic referendum. Also those still winging on wanting to reverse the decision and quite frankly are happy to see the UK to lose jobs and businesses to prove a point. how very patriotic those posters are.

 

Whether you agree or not you should be behind your country, buying British and wanting the best for your country. If you are unhappy vote at the next election for the idiots (IMO) for Corbyn or Cable.

 

In a Thai forum and Thai's have their own problem but one thing they do have it national pride and unity. Its something that many British would do good to mirror.

I think you'll find that unity will develop quickly, as and when Brexit becomes an unchangeable reality until then there are those citizens who wish to continue to influence opinion and direction.

Just now, simoh1490 said:

I think you'll find that unity will develop quickly, as and when Brexit becomes an unchangeable reality until then there are those citizens who wish to continue to influence opinion and direction.

That may be true, but before it is, it seems perfectly reasonable for the people that think it was mistake and that the voting process was badly tainted to attempt by any legal means to either reverse it or try to influence things to make it less of a mistake in practice.