Brexit has created chaos in Britain – nobody voted for this

[aright]

Oh dear!

Last night there were calls for the commissioners to resign, as MPs suggested their personal views could have been behind the Commission’s refusal to investigate alleged illicit collusion by pro-Remain campaign groups, while conducting several inquiries into the official Leave campaign.

 

 

 

[billd766]

11 hours ago, talahtnut said:

No good bleating about it.

 

Can you speak up a bit please.

 

I am a bit mutton jeff.

[talahtnut]

15 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 

Can you speak up a bit please.

 

I am a bit mutton jeff.

You're pulling my gigot.

[Orac]

Oh dear!
Last night there were calls for the commissioners to resign, as MPs suggested their personal views could have been behind the Commission’s refusal to investigate alleged illicit collusion by pro-Remain campaign groups, while conducting several inquiries into the official Leave campaign.
 
 
[/url]  

Sounds to me, if both campaigns cheated and those responsible for ensuring that the vote was free and fair need to resign for not doing their job, then the whole referendum should be called into question.


Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[tebee]

1 hour ago, bert bloggs said:

whatever ,but it will still go through .

Oddly enough, as a remainer, I'm a lot less worried about that than I was two years ago - don't get me wrong, I'm not accepting it, I still think it's a very bad idea and will be a disaster.

 

But....

 

It's looking more and more as it if it will be a Brexit in name only to satisfy the wording of the referendum if not the spirit of it. Minor disaster. and both sides feel betrayed in equal measure.

 

Alternative is Canada  deal or talks collapse and we have hard Brexit by default. Both of these will be a major disaster and cause massive UK job losses. Remainders feel justified and Brexiters feel betrayed again.

 

But in both scenarios the Conservatives will get the bulk of the blame and be destroyed for a generation - I suspect that Labour will not survive either. I hope we will have a non-violent revolution and fix our broken political system were lying has become acceptable. I hope we can fix our biased and lying press who have mislead us so much over the years.

 

I don't know how long it will take the two sides of the country to reconcile, I suspect not for a generation  - maybe we will need to wait for the majority of the  brexit generation to die out naturally.  I'm just glad we have houses on mainland Europe and Thai where our family can weather the storm - we might even apply for French citizenship.  

 

I suspect the various bits of the former UK    will be looking  to rejoin the EU - I wonder if it will have them?

 

[nauseus]

5 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

It's easy enough to hide the parts of the graph that were posted originally in order to make the associated point, just by lengthening the timescale and stretching the graph, it's an old con trick! The title of the graph is the Brexit Barometer, how the UK economy has changed. The title of the graph is not, the UK economy since the year 2000!

 

What I posted originally is this: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-03-27/brexit-is-a-year-away-here-s-what-s-happening-in-the-u-k

 

What the above link shows is, (now read slowly everyone because this is really tricky), a graph showing how the economy has changed since Brexit where 100 is par - I'll say that again, where 100 is par at the start of the graph in the timeframe shown which starts at 2015 (not 2000) - I'm sorry if that continues to cause some posters confusion but I can't say it in simpler terms. Regardless of what the units do or not imply the relative plots on the graph shows the story that the article is trying to convey and this is supported by the narrative, indeed, there are words in the article in addition to the picture!

 

As said this is not a debate, it's an ego trip for a few lonely posters where Brexit is simply the excuse to hide behind whilst display appalling behaviour - to be useful it needs to change or be controlled.

More invented cobblers. CYA par pah! We can all see who is tripping up on their ground-level easter ego. 

[simoh1490]

1 minute ago, nauseus said:

More invented cobblers. CYA par pah! We can all see who is tripping up on their ground-level easter ego. 

We can't help that you can't read, now enough, we've all seen your limitation demonstrated only too well.

[nauseus]

3 hours ago, bert bloggs said:

whatever ,but it will still go through .

Back so soon? 

[sandyf]

On 3/31/2018 at 12:26 PM, nauseus said:

Yes, both parties were to blame for the Greek economic collapse but the pensions, youth unemployment and conditions there now are ridiculous. No wonder the economic immigrants want to race through Greece as fast as possible! But the EU are guilty of flouting their own rules multiple times over.

The falsified accounts were bad enough but it was the irresponsible spending that caused the problems. Of course to some the EU would be at fault whatever action was taken, its the brexit mentality.

The Greeks were drawing their old age pension after 35 years of working and now they have had this ridiculous age limit of 62 imposed on them it must really hurt. I paid over 49 years NI and got a frozen pension, unlike the Greeks the UK has had austerity for so long they don't know any different.

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, transam said:

The Brexit referendum was a decision/ruling made by the democratic government of the day to see what the people wanted...There was no revolution or coupe....

But there were only 2 doors ?

[nauseus]

3 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

We can't help that you can't read, now enough, we've all seen your limitation demonstrated only too well.

Now you're stealing my lines.    

[soalbundy]

1 minute ago, Grouse said:

But there were only 2 doors ?

very poetic, I like it.

[nauseus]

1 minute ago, sandyf said:

The falsified accounts were bad enough but it was the irresponsible spending that caused the problems. Of course to some the EU would be at fault whatever action was taken, its the brexit mentality.

The Greeks were drawing their old age pension after 35 years of working and now they have had this ridiculous age limit of 62 imposed on them it must really hurt. I paid over 49 years NI and got a frozen pension, unlike the Greeks the UK has had austerity for so long they don't know any different.

When I say "both parties were to blame" you just ignore that and say "to some the EU would be at fault whatever action was taken". I am am not absolving the Greeks. 

[sandyf]

A percentage of the leave vote was based on an illusion of greener grass portrayed by a group of individuals chasing their own agenda. When the reality kicks in it will not be the ordinary brexiteer that is faced with the new cross border regulations, it will be their boss. When the boss decides he does not want the hassle of the bureacracy and looks to downsize the business, the ordinary brexiteer will have plenty of time to reflect on the wisdom of his vote as waits outside the jobcentre.

[talahtnut]

1 hour ago, tebee said:

Oddly enough, as a remainer, I'm a lot less worried about that than I was two years ago - don't get me wrong, I'm not accepting it, I still think it's a very bad idea and will be a disaster.

 

But....

 

It's looking more and more as it if it will be a Brexit in name only to satisfy the wording of the referendum if not the spirit of it. Minor disaster. and both sides feel betrayed in equal measure.

 

Alternative is Canada  deal or talks collapse and we have hard Brexit by default. Both of these will be a major disaster and cause massive UK job losses. Remainders feel justified and Brexiters feel betrayed again.

 

But in both scenarios the Conservatives will get the bulk of the blame and be destroyed for a generation - I suspect that Labour will not survive either. I hope we will have a non-violent revolution and fix our broken political system were lying has become acceptable. I hope we can fix our biased and lying press who have mislead us so much over the years.

 

I don't know how long it will take the two sides of the country to reconcile, I suspect not for a generation  - maybe we will need to wait for the majority of the  brexit generation to die out naturally.  I'm just glad we have houses on mainland Europe and Thai where our family can weather the storm - we might even apply for French citizenship.  

 

I suspect the various bits of the former UK    will be looking  to rejoin the EU - I wonder if it will have them?

 

You appear to have done well in life, which is good. However, over half

the population are not happy with their lot. Therefore I would suggest

that we should show a degree of social responsibility, and provide

assistance in complying with their struggle.

It seems to me that remainers tend to be rather selfish socially

[sandyf]

6 minutes ago, nauseus said:

When I say "both parties were to blame" you just ignore that and say "to some the EU would be at fault whatever action was taken". I am am not absolving the Greeks. 

You are quite at liberty to claim that the EU was responsible for the Greek spending but it doesn't make it a fact, anti EU sentiment would want it to be a fact.

[nauseus]

7 minutes ago, sandyf said:

You are quite at liberty to claim that the EU was responsible for the Greek spending but it doesn't make it a fact, anti EU sentiment would want it to be a fact.

I didn't say that either! If you don't want to read what I post why comment at all?

[nauseus]

14 minutes ago, sandyf said:

A percentage of the leave vote was based on an illusion of greener grass portrayed by a group of individuals chasing their own agenda. When the reality kicks in it will not be the ordinary brexiteer that is faced with the new cross border regulations, it will be their boss. When the boss decides he does not want the hassle of the bureacracy and looks to downsize the business, the ordinary brexiteer will have plenty of time to reflect on the wisdom of his vote as waits outside the jobcentre.

You must have the inside track on the final outcome of the Brexit negotiations. Please tell us all.

[aright]

2 minutes ago, nauseus said:

You must have the inside track on the final outcome of the Brexit negotiations. Please tell us all.

I was going to say you couldn't make it up could you.......but sandyf obviously can.

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, Orac said:

 

Sounds to me, if both campaigns cheated and those responsible for ensuring that the vote was free and fair need to resign for not doing their job, then the whole referendum should be called into question.


Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

Don't worry. It's been called into question for years! 

[soalbundy]

Just now, nauseus said:

Don't worry. It's been called into question for years! 

Like the survival of the EU and the Euro but here we are with the reality

[aright]

1 minute ago, soalbundy said:

Like the survival of the EU and the Euro but here we are with the reality

Therese May same same

[tebee]

9 minutes ago, talahtnut said:

You appear to have done well in life, which is good. However, over half

the population are not happy with their lot. Therefore I would suggest

that we should show a degree of social responsibility, and provide

assistance in complying with their struggle.

It seems to me that remainers tend to be rather selfish socially

I'm OK now, but not rich enough not to worry about this - however I don't have any UK assets other than maybe one day a pension. It is because I worry about others less fortunate than me that I have campaigned passionately to remain.

 

However after two years it's become clear that most leavers are too overwhelmed by cognitive dissonance to understand the lies they have been fed over the years.

 

I'm starting to agree with Pete North that a bad Brexit will at least cause the collapse of the British political system and maybe we can rebuild something better. I do feel very sorry for those who are going to have to live through this, but I can't see anyway round it now as we don't seem to have a spare young boy to expose the emperor's new clothes  for what they are.

 

It's been enlightening ( and frightening ) to see Tocqueville's Tyranny of the majority in action. The perfect example of the  "Abandonment of rationality:  a decision which bases its claim to rule upon numbers, not upon rightness or excellence" The realization that democracy without truth, openness and being able to hold people to account is no democracy.

 

So I don't want  it to happen, but if it does so be it. I tried but was ignored. Be careful  about getting what you wish for.

[nauseus]

3 minutes ago, tebee said:

I'm OK now, but not rich enough not to worry about this - however I don't have any UK assets other than maybe one day a pension. It is because I worry about others less fortunate than me that I have campaigned passionately to remain.

 

However after two years it's become clear that most leavers are too overwhelmed by cognitive dissonance to understand the lies they have been fed over the years.

 

I'm starting to agree with Pete North that a bad Brexit will at least cause the collapse of the British political system and maybe we can rebuild something better. I do feel very sorry for those who are going to have to live through this, but I can't see anyway round it now as we don't seem to have a spare young boy to expose the emperor's new clothes  for what they are.

 

It's been enlightening ( and frightening ) to see Tocqueville's Tyranny of the majority in action. The perfect example of the  "Abandonment of rationality:  a decision which bases its claim to rule upon numbers, not upon rightness or excellence" The realization that democracy without truth, openness and being able to hold people to account is no democracy.

 

So I don't want  it to happen, but if it does so be it. I tried but was ignored. Be careful  about getting what you wish for.

That line "the realization that democracy without truth, openness and being able to hold people to account is no democracy" is a rather apt description of the EU regime and one of the prime reasons for the UK leave vote. Bravo! 

[soalbundy]

1 minute ago, aright said:

Therese May same same

I suspect that she is nearer the cliff edge than the EU. I think it is realistic to assume that when Brexit happens it will be far softer than many thought,to the joy of the bankers in the city and industry and to the anger of many Brexiters, she has to be a scapegoat along with Davis, Rees Mogg's star is burning bright but even he won't be able to turn brei into wood. 

[aright]

4 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

I suspect that she is nearer the cliff edge than the EU. I think it is realistic to assume that when Brexit happens it will be far softer than many thought,to the joy of the bankers in the city and industry and to the anger of many Brexiters, she has to be a scapegoat along with Davis, Rees Mogg's star is burning bright but even he won't be able to turn brei into wood. 

Of course she was half way over the cliff after the National election.....would only last 6 weeks some said and that was 10 months ago.....she has certainly proved a survivor. Outside Brexit I think she did an outstanding job getting support for retaliatory action against Russia as a result of Salisbury. It's too early to speculate about political outcomes  imo but Remainers have to have something to gristle  about don't they. Can't wait for the Mogg

[soalbundy]

I have just read that the French have won the contract to renovate Big Ben, the bell is to be recast in France, they joke that it could be called Brexit bell in future.

[tebee]

14 minutes ago, nauseus said:

That line "the realization that democracy without truth, openness and being able to hold people to account is no democracy" is a rather apt description of the EU regime and one of the prime reasons for the UK leave vote. Bravo! 

Maybe you could explain how those virtues apply to the current UK political system? I don't see any evidence of them being applied.

[talahtnut]

12 minutes ago, tebee said:

I'm OK now, but not rich enough not to worry about this - however I don't have any UK assets other than maybe one day a pension. It is because I worry about others less fortunate than me that I have campaigned passionately to remain.

 

However after two years it's become clear that most leavers are too overwhelmed by cognitive dissonance to understand the lies they have been fed over the years.

 

I'm starting to agree with Pete North that a bad Brexit will at least cause the collapse of the British political system and maybe we can rebuild something better. I do feel very sorry for those who are going to have to live through this, but I can't see anyway round it now as we don't seem to have a spare young boy to expose the emperor's new clothes  for what they are.

 

It's been enlightening ( and frightening ) to see  GLA  Tyranny of the majority in action. The perfect example of the  "Abandonment of rationality:  a decision which bases its claim to rule upon numbers, not upon rightness or excellence" The realization that democracy without truth, openness and being able to hold people to account is no democracy.

 

So I don't want  it to happen, but if it does so be it. I tried but was ignored. Be careful  about getting what you wish for.

I'm sure you mean well, but I think you should assist the less well off

majority that want to leave.

You are correct in that democracy eventually leads to tyranny

it is not the best system.   The government has become the tyrant.

I did not vote..I had no particular 'wish'.

 

[Grouse]

14 hours ago, aright said:

A very good article

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/03/31/remainers-need-get-lost/

Well I went to the trouble of reading it just to please you.

 

Fatuous pap as predicted

 

You do know that Heffer was the chap who blamed Hillsborough on Liverpool drunks? He was working for Boris at the time.

 

Some people wrongly accuse me of being pompous. Now Heffer really is pompous! I'm arrogant; I look down on bloated oafs such as Heffer! ?