4 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 

What you call democracy, I do not.

 

How is it democratic for countries to demand that laws be enacted in other sovereign countries, whether that country likes it or not.

 

That is not democracy but dictatorship under another name.

No, not at all. It's similar to political parties forming a coalition for a new govt. ( as in Germany in these days). You have to find compromises. And of course you will not get 100% what you expect

19 hours ago, sawadee1947 said:

This and similar expressions I heard in the last weeks and months even as one reason to leave EU. 

What a nonsense!!! 

Those bureaucrats are sent by your government, meaning T. May. 

The reason to send them to Brussels is to negotiate in currant law making process. And so to have a vote and to take part in a decision what is good for UK and what is not. The whole process is called democracy. 

If some now complaining about those bureaucrats then you don't understand how democracy works. 

Unelected bureaucrats should have nothing to do with creating laws or regulations. That they do so is undemocratic.

Get out, now, and don't look back.

 

As for May, she is obviously feeling the winds of change to the occupant of Number 10 and is coming out with increasingly ridiculous speeches. Governments since WW2 have done nothing but divide the populace, with the possible exception of Thatcher before she lost the plot.

Pretty speeches aren't going to put Humpty together again.

 

On ‎02‎/‎03‎/‎2018 at 9:15 AM, webfact said:

We must bring our country back together, taking into account the views of everyone who cares about this issue, from both sides of the debate

Regardless of the motivations of the Brexiters, the fact is that she/they have failed in any way whatsoever to win over the remainers. If anything, both sides are more entrenched than ever - how on earth she intends to bring the country back together, and proceed with Brexit while also taking into account the views of at least 50% of the country who did not or no longer want Brexit, demonstrates how deluded she really is.

Edited March 3, 20188 yr by RuamRudy

4 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Regardless of the motivations of the Brexiters, the fact is that she/they have failed in any way whatsoever to win over the remainers. If anything, both sides are more entrenched than ever - how on earth she intends to bring the country back together, and proceed with Brexit while also taking into account the views of at least 50% of the country who did not or no longer want Brexit, demonstrates how deluded she really is.

Numbers from thin air again.

4 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Unelected bureaucrats should have nothing to do with creating laws or regulations. That they do so is undemocratic.

Get out, now, and don't look back.

 

As for May, she is obviously feeling the winds of change to the occupant of Number 10 and is coming out with increasingly ridiculous speeches. Governments since WW2 have done nothing but divide the populace, with the possible exception of Thatcher before she lost the plot.

Pretty speeches aren't going to put Humpty together again.

 

I agree with your second part,

however I disagree with the first. These bureaucrats are elected by your Government in order to act for your govt. And you have chosen this Government. I wonder why it is so difficult to understand or to accept?

9 minutes ago, sawadee1947 said:

I agree with your second part,

however I disagree with the first. These bureaucrats are elected by your Government in order to act for your govt. And you have chosen this Government. I wonder why it is so difficult to understand or to accept?

It may be a fact of life now, but it's not democracy.

3 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

It may be a fact of life now, but it's not democracy.

In that case there has never been a democracy since civil servants have been delegated this responsibility by the responsible elected bodies.

1 minute ago, ilostmypassword said:

In that case there has never been a democracy since civil servants have been delegated this responsibility by the responsible elected bodies.

Exactly correct.

Edited March 3, 20188 yr by thaibeachlovers

After all the years of driving a wedge through the population and creating the biggest wealth difference for 80 years, she now asks people to come together. So she can keep her well paid job, while others do without them.

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Exactly correct.

Exactly ridiculous since that would require electing each and every person who does the government's work.

2 hours ago, nauseus said:

Numbers from thin air again.

Has there been a seismic shift in pubic perception that has gone largely unreported?

 

The polling shows public opinion turning against Brexit—can we trust it?

"In the past three weeks, YouGov has twice asked its tracking question, were we right or wrong to vote to leave the EU? In mid-January, for the first time since August, slightly more people said we were right to vote to leave (45 per cent) rather than wrong (44 per cent). Then at the end of January, the number saying “right” fell to its lowest level yet, 40 per cent, while the number saying “wrong” rose to 46 per cent. "

 

 

1 hour ago, RuamRudy said:

The polling shows public opinion turning against Brexit—can we trust it?

If you trust the guys that said Brexit would never happen and Trump would never win ....... by all means.

Edited March 3, 20188 yr by MaeJoMTB

7 minutes ago, MaeJoMTB said:

If you trust the guys that said Brexit would never happen and Trump would never wins ....... by all means.

My views are clear but, as with most people on this forum, we are resigned to the inevitable. However I see no evidence of any significant change in the mood of the public one way or the other. Even if all the doomsayers are wrong, the message that is resonant across broad swathes of the media is decidedly negative. That is why I question what TM could possibly mean when she spoke of (1) bringing the country together again - not looking likely at this point; (2) taking into account the views of all - even less likely, considering how diametrically opposed the two sides are.

5 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

Regardless of the motivations of the Brexiters, the fact is that she/they have failed in any way whatsoever to win over the remainers. If anything, both sides are more entrenched than ever - how on earth she intends to bring the country back together, and proceed with Brexit while also taking into account the views of at least 50% of the country who did not or no longer want Brexit, demonstrates how deluded she really is.

I also think she’s done a very  bad job of negotiating Brexit, though I ‘m not at all surprised, as she is at heart a remainer.

Regarding those who did vote for remain,at the referendum, there now seems to be a movement ( close minded Thai visa members excepted ) who are increasingly coming around to the view, that the country voted for Brexit, so we should all now pull together. Allthough I suspect that their change of view, has something do do with the dictatorial and bullying of the unelected bureaucrats in Brussels.

 

 

 

11 minutes ago, nontabury said:

I also think she’s done a very  bad job of negotiating Brexit, though I ‘m not at all surprised, as she is at heart a remainer.

Regarding those who did vote for remain,at the referendum, there now seems to be a movement ( close minded Thai visa members excepted ) who are increasingly coming around to the view, that the country voted for Brexit, so we should all now pull together. Allthough I suspect that their change of view, has something do do with the dictatorial and bullying of the unelected bureaucrats in Brussels.

 

 

 

 

Why does Nicola Sturgeon appear on your hit list? She has been clear from the start that Brexit was  bad idea. Are you taking the Nadine Dorries approach where anyone who does not share your point of view is branded a traitor? That is a very dangerous path to take - almost as if freedom of speech worries you.

7 hours ago, sawadee1947 said:

YOU did not mention Portugal before. But I can add Spain as well. What I'm trying to say is that you have to understand that many people of those former colonies are on the move to Europe because you - as colonists - left them poor, exploited and uneducated. Unfortunately. To solve this imminent problem WE as EU, have to offer them chances to stay in their countries. And this means to support them to develop infrastructure and education e.g. A channel will not stop them. The wave will come to your shores as well.

 

You are correct as I had forgotten Portugal but having worked in Angola for 3 months my memory kicked in. The Spanish have not really had an empire for a few centuries though Morocco was part of it.

 

It is the EU that decreed that the UK MUST take in immigrants or face penalties. The same EU that is trying to force Hungary and some of the other countries to do the same. The same EU that Germany as a member decided to give free rein to almost 1 million immigrants before realising how stupid that decision was.

3 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

My views are clear but, as with most people on this forum, we are resigned to the inevitable. However I see no evidence of any significant change in the mood of the public one way or the other. Even if all the doomsayers are wrong, the message that is resonant across broad swathes of the media is decidedly negative. That is why I question what TM could possibly mean when she spoke of (1) bringing the country together again - not looking likely at this point; (2) taking into account the views of all - even less likely, considering how diametrically opposed the two sides are.

 

Sadly neither you or many other remainers are resigned to the inevitable just by looking at the Brexit threads on TVF.

 

You can get the result in a poll that you desire by knowing the answer you want before you ask the questions.

If anyone took John Major seriously...

 

9 hours ago, billd766 said:

 

You are correct as I had forgotten Portugal but having worked in Angola for 3 months my memory kicked in. The Spanish have not really had an empire for a few centuries though Morocco was part of it.

 

It is the EU that decreed that the UK MUST take in immigrants or face penalties. The same EU that is trying to force Hungary and some of the other countries to do the same. The same EU that Germany as a member decided to give free rein to almost 1 million immigrants before realising how stupid that decision was.

Well as a part of this community you agreed with the rules even you are not happy with them. If every single country would look for advantages only it would not be a community 

11 hours ago, evadgib said:

If anyone took John Major seriously...

 

Rees-Mogg: the man who went canvassing with his nanny.

11 hours ago, billd766 said:

Sadly neither you or many other remainers are resigned to the inevitable just by looking at the Brexit threads on TVF.

You can get the result in a poll that you desire by knowing the answer you want before you ask the questions.

Might have a bit of difficulty sorting that out for a Hard Brexit result.

S/w..why are you so bitter re BREXIT..and politicians who support Brexit??
You seem rather immature.. can you not understand that the over 17 million people who voted FOR Brexit probably did do for a very wide variety of reasons

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

On 3/2/2018 at 6:37 PM, sawadee1947 said:

This and similar expressions I heard in the last weeks and months even as one reason to leave EU. 

What a nonsense!!! 

Those bureaucrats are sent by your government, meaning T. May. 

The reason to send them to Brussels is to negotiate in currant law making process. And so to have a vote and to take part in a decision what is good for UK and what is not. The whole process is called democracy. 

If some now complaining about those bureaucrats then you don't understand how democracy works. 

British votes have been increasingly negated in the Council of the EU due to QMV (qualified majority voting). Luvvies who say that we are better off staying in so we can change and influence the EU are just dreaming. 

31 minutes ago, malagateddy said:

S/w..why are you so bitter re BREXIT..and politicians who support Brexit??
You seem rather immature.. can you not understand that the over 17 million people who voted FOR Brexit probably did do for a very wide variety of reasons

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

So all the people who disagree with you are bitter.

58 minutes ago, malagateddy said:

S/w..why are you so bitter re BREXIT..and politicians who support Brexit??
You seem rather immature.. can you not understand that the over 17 million people who voted FOR Brexit probably did do for a very wide variety of reasons

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

What I understand is that many of the 17M were either misinformed or inadequately informed. We control our own currency as we are not in the EUR, we control our own borders as we are not in Schengen. Certainly we share some sovereignty with the other 27 members to be in the closest, deepest, frictionless single market and customs union on the planet.

 

Any residual benefits from Brexit are trivial compared to the losses that will be incurred.

 

Now, instead of ad hominem attacks why not give us a list of the benefits that you expect to be achieved though Brexit and be prepared to have them challenged.

Stevenl.
I did not say that..however some of S/w posts show him imo to be a very bitter bad loser re the Brexit vote..his imo rather cheap and would be sarcastic comments..eg "swivel eyed " etc etc

Let me give you the words of one of founders of what is now the eu..a certain Jean Monnet.
" Europe's nationals should be guided towards a superstate without their people understanding what is happening.
This can be accomplished by successive steps..each disguised as having an economic purpose..but which will eventually and inevitably lead to Federation ".

That was my main reason to vote LEAVE !!!

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Grouse..I do not wish my friends..their children and grandchildren to be " ruled " by unelected jobsworths over in brussels..who in turn are but mere " goffers " for the big financial players..eg. soros.goldman sachs.rothchilds.etc etc.
Why not wait a few years and then we can have a proper discussion as to whether Brexit has been a success for the British people.

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

5 minutes ago, malagateddy said:

Stevenl.
I did not say that..however some of S/w posts show him imo to be a very bitter bad loser re the Brexit vote..his imo rather cheap and would be sarcastic comments..eg "swivel eyed " etc etc

Let me give you the words of one of founders of what is now the eu..a certain Jean Monnet.
" Europe's nationals should be guided towards a superstate without their people understanding what is happening.
This can be accomplished by successive steps..each disguised as having an economic purpose..but which will eventually and inevitably lead to Federation ".

That was my main reason to vote LEAVE !!!

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Jean Monnet died amost 40 years ago and stopped being influential long before that. If we start to quote long dead peope as being the justification for contemporary decisions we leave ourselves open to ridicule, or should we reprise the Lord Rothermere's cry of All Hail the Black Shirts?

11 minutes ago, Grouse said:

What I understand is that many of the 17M were either misinformed or inadequately informed. We control our own currency as we are not in the EUR, we control our own borders as we are not in Schengen. Certainly we share some sovereignty with the other 27 members to be in the closest, deepest, frictionless single market and customs union on the planet.

 

Any residual benefits from Brexit are trivial compared to the losses that will be incurred.

 

Now, instead of ad hominem attacks why not give us a list of the benefits that you expect to be achieved though Brexit and be prepared to have them challenged.

As far as information goes, it seems, from remainers' comments, that they have been the misguided, over both the long and short terms. 

3 minutes ago, malagateddy said:

Grouse..I do not wish my friends..their children and grandchildren to be " ruled " by unelected jobsworths over in brussels..who in turn are but mere " goffers " for the big financial players..eg. soros.goldman sachs.rothchilds.etc etc.
Why not wait a few years and then we can have a proper discussion as to whether Brexit has been a success for the British people.

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

 

Whereas the Brexit movement was sponsored by such egalitarian men of the people like Rothermere, the Barclay Brothers, Aron Banks, Rees-Mogg and all the other tax dodging parasites who knew that their number was up when the EU Tax Avoidance Directive was after them. Your children and your childrens' children WILL be fodder for the furtherance of their personal wealth.