On 3/2/2018 at 5:55 PM, 4737 Carlin said:

I'd say it was a reaction to immigration in general. The Brexit referendum was the only chance the elecorate had to send a message to the politicians - to stick up two fingers basically. The overwhelming majority of Brits want immigration drastically reduced or stopped completely - they have done going back decades and have been ignored consistently. Polish and other Eastern Europeans are not the problem - they can be assimilated fairly easily - illiterate Africans and muslims, not so much.

And what is leaving the EU going to do to stop them? We had our own border control when we were in the EU, what is leaving going to do to help with that.

1 hour ago, puck2 said:

 

It's a horror to read comments of Brexit-friends only armed with propaganda delivered by Farage, Johnson and cohorts, but free of knowledge.

 

1. It seems hard for some British people to understand that the supranational EU system isn't exactly the same as the democratic system in Britain. That doesn't mean the EU-system is undemocratic. It is nearly a federal system. Believe it or not, the EU has a democratic system, not an autocratic one, as falsely repeated many times here in TV. It is democratic, because. It seems hard

• it depends of the separation of powers

  • the EU Commission is the executive power

  • the legislative consists of 2 parts (chambers?)

    • the European parliament chosen by the citizens

    • the Council of Europe, sent by the member states (comparable to the German Bundesrat)

  • the European Court of Justice

 

One thing makes me   and sad at the same time. Most of the Brexiteers call the EU system undemocratic. Then I have to ask them, why did GB join such a horror-system and staying in it for ~ 40 years?  Do you detect the contradiction to your believe of an undemocratic/autocratic system!

 

All democracies, be it GB, USA, Sweden, Australia or Germany, i.e., have their own administrations, some call it bureaucracy. But without it no the state – here in this case the EU as a supranational Union – cannot work. Or can you imagine that there is a state without tax-, justice- and other offices? Therefore the EU needs one, too.

 

There are a lot of Brexiteers that condemn this bureaucracy and believe it's only bad. That there are many, many positive effects... here only a few catchwords

• a uniform, supranational system for the industry, law etc.

• the economic power of a single state nowadays is minimal, the EU is a power factor.

• do you remember the EU fighting against nearly criminal monopolies; as Google, Microsoft, and the fight against astronomic bank fees.

• the custom free area for many, many goods within the EU; saving money just for the not so riches.

• support for the not so rich EU states, especially in the Eastern EU. Although a „pain“ for the money dominated Brexiteers, it helps to avoid wars, solving problems peacefully (for now many years) etc.

 

It's a horror to read comments of Brexit-friends only armed with propaganda delivered by Farage, Johnson and cohorts, but free of knowledge. First wrong assumption.

 

1. It seems hard for some British people to understand that the supranational EU system isn't exactly the same as the democratic system in Britain. That doesn't mean the EU-system is undemocratic. It is nearly a federal system. Believe it or not, the EU has a democratic system, not an autocratic one, as falsely repeated many times here in TV. It is democratic, because. It seems hard  Second and third wrong assumptions - It is certainly understood that the EU is "different" and that it is not only fundamentally undemocratic but also wasteful, deceitful and corrupt. 

• it depends of the separation of powers

  • the EU Commission is the executive power (add the only power to propose legislation).

  • the legislative consists of 2 parts (chambers?)

    • the European parliament chosen by the citizens 

    • the Council of Europe, sent by the member states (comparable to the German Bundesrat)

  • the European Court of Justice (and just how are the judges selected).

 

One thing makes me   and sad at the same time. Most of the Brexiteers call the EU system undemocratic. Then I have to ask them, why did GB join such a horror-system and staying in it for ~ 40 years?  Do you detect the contradiction to your believe of an undemocratic/autocratic system! The UK electorate was deceived. This political union was broadly sold as the "Common Market", a trading arrangement, nothing more. If it was just that then there would be no problem.

 

All democracies, be it GB, USA, Sweden, Australia or Germany, i.e., have their own administrations, some call it bureaucracy. But without it no the state – here in this case the EU as a supranational Union – cannot work. Or can you imagine that there is a state without tax-, justice- and other offices? Therefore the EU needs one, too. The present structure, powers and so-called democratic arrangement allows for far too much bureaucracy.

 

There are a lot of Brexiteers that condemn this bureaucracy and believe it's only bad. That there are many, many positive effects... here only a few catchwords Well if the below are the positives then the negatives must be worse than even I thought!:-

 

• a uniform, supranational system for the industry, law etc. The present system is flawed and evidently unpopular.

• the economic power of a single state nowadays is minimal, the EU is a power factor. Power! Gimme!

• do you remember the EU fighting against nearly criminal monopolies; as Google, Microsoft, and the fight against astronomic bank fees. Any independent state could do the same.

• the custom free area for many, many goods within the EU; saving money just for the not so riches. OK. But you can't have separate agreements with all those baddies in the greater world that might actually give you a better deal!

• support for the not so rich EU states, especially in the Eastern EU. Although a „pain“ for the money dominated Brexiteers, it helps to avoid wars, solving problems peacefully (for now many years) etc. If a poor country gets the offer of free cash then of course they will take it. But large for net contributors, like the UK, this generosity must have its limits. With new members planned then the contribution would go up significantly. It has been NATO, and the USA in particular, that has prevented war. The EU fools like Verhofstadt think that an EU military can compete, even though the military budgets of the member states are declining. All the EU will do is alienate the other major powers if they start playing soldiers again!

Edited March 4, 20188 yr by nauseus

4 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

Jean Monnet died amost 40 years ago and stopped being influential long before that. If we start to quote long dead peope as being the justification for contemporary decisions we leave ourselves open to ridicule, or should we reprise the Lord Rothermere's cry of All Hail the Black Shirts?

Are you unaware that the unelected Bureacrats in Brussels, are already planning further integration. That in itself will lead to further loss of sovereignty for the British people.

Do you not realise that we were conned in 1975 and years later Major signed the U.K up to the Maastricht Treaty without putting it to the British electorate.

And This you refer to as a people’s democracy.

31 minutes ago, nontabury said:

Are you unaware that the unelected Bureacrats in Brussels, are already planning further integration. That in itself will lead to further loss of sovereignty for the British people.

Do you not realise that we were conned in 1975 and years later Major signed the U.K up to the Maastricht Treaty without putting it to the British electorate.

And This you refer to as a people’s democracy.

I haven't referred to anything as a people's democracy - what an awful term, makes me think of Princess Diana.

4 hours ago, nauseus said:

For it to have a chance to work it would need a Swedish reset. A complete restart. Clear mission with honestly declared goals and the people of the member states properly represented with absolute rights to veto anything they want.

 

In other words a complete reformation of structure followed by open and truthful communication, cooperation and consent.

I agree! Wow, a staunch Brexiter and a staunch Remoaner have heated agreement!

R/r..imo..you are a disgrace re mentioning the late Diane..imo you are just another very bitter "jocko"
Thankfully I am a Glasgow Brit who is both s Unionist and a Royalist

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7 hours ago, nauseus said:

As far as information goes, it seems, from remainers' comments, that they have been the misguided, over both the long and short terms. 

It seems time that the UK has done jolly well over the last 40 years. It is not the fault of the EU have been shared in an obscenely fashion now is it?

16 minutes ago, malagateddy said:

R/r..imo..you are a disgrace re mentioning the late Diane..imo you are just another very bitter "jocko"
Thankfully I am a Glasgow Brit who is both s Unionist and a Royalist

 

Not to confuse you further, but the royal family are Remainers.  Most likely due to the fact their chief patriarch is an EU immigrant.

Edited March 4, 20188 yr by Air Smiles

12 minutes ago, malagateddy said:

R/r..imo..you are a disgrace re mentioning the late Diane..imo you are just another very bitter "jocko"
Thankfully I am a Glasgow Brit who is both s Unionist and a Royalist

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Thank you, Malaga Teddy for bringing a degree of dignified civility and rational discourse to these boards. I humbly accept your admonishment and promise never to besmirch the good name of St Diana, pbuh, again.

4 hours ago, puck2 said:

 

It's a horror to read comments of Brexit-friends only armed with propaganda delivered by Farage, Johnson and cohorts, but free of knowledge.

 

1. It seems hard for some British people to understand that the supranational EU system isn't exactly the same as the democratic system in Britain. That doesn't mean the EU-system is undemocratic. It is nearly a federal system. Believe it or not, the EU has a democratic system, not an autocratic one, as falsely repeated many times here in TV. It is democratic, because

• it depends of the separation of powers

  • the EU Commission is the executive power

  • the legislative consists of 2 parts (chambers?)

    • the European parliament chosen by the citizens

    • the Council of Europe, sent by the member states (comparable to the German Bundesrat)

  • the European Court of Justice

 

One thing makes me   and sad at the same time. Most of the Brexiteers call the EU system undemocratic. Then I have to ask them, why did GB join such a horror-system and staying in it for ~ 40 years?  Do you detect the contradiction to your believe of an undemocratic/autocratic system!

 

All democracies, be it GB, USA, Sweden, Australia or Germany, i.e., have their own administrations, some call it bureaucracy. But without it no the state – here in this case the EU as a supranational Union – cannot work. Or can you imagine that there is a state without tax-, justice- and other offices? Therefore the EU needs one, too.

 

There are a lot of Brexiteers that condemn this bureaucracy and believe it's only bad. That there are many, many positive effects... here only a few catchwords

• a uniform, supranational system for the industry, law etc.

• the economic power of a single state nowadays is minimal, the EU is a power factor.

• do you remember the EU fighting against nearly criminal monopolies; as Google, Microsoft, and the fight against astronomic bank fees.

• the custom free area for many, many goods within the EU; saving money just for the not so riches.

• support for the not so rich EU states, especially in the Eastern EU. Although a „pain“ for the money dominated Brexiteers, it helps to avoid wars, solving problems peacefully (for now many years) etc.

 

Well said, sir! ?

2 hours ago, nontabury said:

Are you unaware that the unelected Bureacrats in Brussels, are already planning further integration. That in itself will lead to further loss of sovereignty for the British people.

Do you not realise that we were conned in 1975 and years later Major signed the U.K up to the Maastricht Treaty without putting it to the British electorate.

And This you refer to as a people’s democracy.

Nope, multilevel / multi speed is the mantra now. Keep up ?

47 minutes ago, Grouse said:

It seems time that the UK has done jolly well over the last 40 years. It is not the fault of the EU have been shared in an obscenely fashion now is it?

I'm sorry...you'll read that again?

29 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Nope, multilevel / multi speed is the mantra now. Keep up ?

At which speed? 

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

I agree! Wow, a staunch Brexiter and a staunch Remoaner have heated agreement!

I doubt that you would be a fan of how long that process would take.

 

Look how much time it is taking and how much trouble it is causing when a single member intends to extract itself from the EU's web. For the EU to dissolve to allow European nations to reform into another group (let's say an association for now), it would probably take half a century! Probably 49 years for the EU to tidy up its affairs, pay off it's pensions and empty the wine cellars. Then about a year for the formation of a sensible trading pact, with other mutual interests packaged up into a neat agreement, with only a small body necessary to oversee and run it (plus a modest bar with Bass and Pedigree available, at very reasonable rates, of course). 

 

The continent can have the admin and we'll have the bar! 

2 hours ago, nauseus said:

I'm sorry...you'll read that again?

Damn auto complete; damn ciderCider 

3 hours ago, Grouse said:

Damn auto complete; damn ciderCider 

 Fair enough! All in a good cause.

Theresa May, Captain of the Good Ship Lollipop, going round in circles: https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-02-28/the-brexit-talks-are-going-in-circles

 

Hopefully very soon T May will tell Barnier to " go forth and multiply" ..WTR will do just fine thank you..then watch the eu's bottle crash as they realise that their "divorce settlement " is not in the post[emoji6][emoji23][emoji6]

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2 hours ago, malagateddy said:

Hopefully very soon T May will tell Barnier to " go forth and multiply" ..WTR will do just fine thank you..then watch the eu's bottle crash as they realise that their "divorce settlement " is not in the post
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As usual the Hard Brexiteers completely disconnected from reality and out of touch with what is actually in play. Otherwise 'hopefully this....' and 'hopefully that....'

No one knows what is actually " in play "..hence the use of " hopefully "
Do you have access to sensitive info. at your "I love the eu" nursery???

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Glasgow friend tells me the snp lemming numbers are dropping like flies..must be the weather[emoji23]

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7 minutes ago, malagateddy said:

Glasgow friend tells me the snp lemming numbers are dropping like flies..must be the weather

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I think you posted on the wrong thread there, pal - this one is about the seemingly impossible task ahead of the PM finding a resolution to a problem that nobody fully comprehends and that even she doesn't believe in, and satisfying two diametrically opposed factions at the same time, with a little look at her performance against her predecessors thrown in on the side.

Easy solution imo..JRM as PM..WTR is way to go..hope you can realise that eu slowly imploding..Hungarian PM statement re UN statement was spot on..Merkel admitting Germany has "no go " areas in some cities..
Italian voters " sticking it up " Brussels..Merkel's French poodle Macron admitting Italian election result was disasterous for your beloved eu.

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May urges British to "come together", then greets the Saudi head of state and gives him the full state welcome. Sooner she is relegated to the back benches the better, IMO.

Soon..hopefully JRM will be new PM[emoji6]

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41 minutes ago, malagateddy said:

Soon..hopefully JRM will be new PM

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Assuming that you were not public school educated, Malaga Teddy, your beloved JRM thinks that you are as thick as a potted plant. If ordinary people actually support him, possibly he has a point?

 

 

I went to a Glasgow fee paying school.
I won a Bursary
I am a working class man who worked hard all his days and also have a fair amount of business acumen.
Re you bad-mouthing JRM..why do you not bad-mouth the likes of soros.blair.mandellson.the bosses of rothchild's.g9ldman sachs etc etc
Could it be that you will lose some money when imo..the UK tells the eu that it's WTR time[emoji6]

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12 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Assuming that you were not public school educated, Malaga Teddy, your beloved JRM thinks that you are as thick as a potted plant. If ordinary people actually support him, possibly he has a point?

 

 

Wow £74000 salary, do you think that is a lot of money for someone running the country. To put things in perspective Jean Claude Juncker gets over €340000 a year, on that basis it would be fair to say we are getting value for money with Jacob. And to say £400 is a lot for ink jet cartidges when a single cartridge on Amazon can cost cost over £82 is scraping the barrel to say the very least. 

I think we can ignore such propaganda don't you, people will be saying you are becoming a drama queen next.

11 minutes ago, vogie said:

Wow £74000 salary, do you think that is a lot of money for someone running the country. To put things in perspective Jean Claude Juncker gets over €340000 a year, on that basis it would be fair to say we are getting value for money with Jacob. And to say £400 is a lot for ink jet cartidges when a single cartridge on Amazon can cost cost over £82 is scraping the barrel to say the very least. 

I think we can ignore such propaganda don't you, people will be saying you are becoming a drama queen next.

 

Actually the PM gets £150,402 but still gets to pay tax on it. It is still however only around 50% compared to  Jean Claude Juncker's over €340000 a year, on that basis it would be fair to say we are getting value for money with Jacob.

 

https://fullfact.org/law/how-much-does-prime-minister-get-paid/