Big Change in Penang

[FritsSikkink]

On ‎10‎/‎03‎/‎2018 at 2:39 AM, JackThompson said:

Yes, and this will likely be available via the "van nearby the embassy" (per other's reports) and from other "visa-help" service-providers - supplying tickets, hotel-reservations, and such on-the-fly.  I suppose Jim doesn't want to get into that part of the business. 

 

If this service did not already exist, it would in short-order.  But the Penang consul will be able to tell his higher-ups that he is "doing all he can" to stem that heavy flow of Westerners who come to Thailand to work for a fraction of what they could earn at home. 

 

Lord knows, if those darn English teachers are not stopped, no one in the country will ever be able to earn a decent wage, again.  After all, cracking down on the hiring-schools that won't give English teachers the proper paperwork would just be too hard, compared to the relatively simple task of identifying every illegal-teacher these schools hire, by differentiating them from the 'real tourists' with clever immigration 'imaginary-rules' and consulate 'requirement' schemes.

 

... and many will split their time between Vietnam or Cambodia - or just move there. 

 

Of course, those benefiting from the Elite sales won't care about all the Thai citizens who lose their livelihoods, as a direct result of this decision.  No doubt they have been pushing for it.  They (or someone) even have the airport IOs already citing a non-existent rule which could net them a few more sales this year. 

 

That new car someone's "official salary" could never finance, is just a few hundred more "out of business" mom/pop thai-restaurants away, via a bit more "crackdown" action on those pesky long-term Tourists who stubbornly refuse to just "pay up."

"all the Thai citizens who lose their livelihoods", what a joke, they can't pay for a proper visa but are aiding the economy by sooooo much.

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, FritsSikkink said:

they can't pay for a proper visa

Yes they can - that's why they are in Penang - to get one.  Those trips aren't "free."  The newer "border-bounce" / visa-exempt rules got rid of anyone who was hanging on by a thread.  These are people in Penang can afford the same extension cost as a retiree 4x per year, plus 4x trips out every year on top of that.

 

It is unfortunate so much money is wasted on trips and spent overseas, instead of simply getting rid of the "over 50" rule, and allowing more financially-independent people to spend more of their money in Thailand.  But, the authorities seem to prefer that money contribute to the economies of their neighbors, instead.

Edited March 12, 2018 by JackThompson

[FritsSikkink]

3 hours ago, JackThompson said:

Yes they can - that's why they are in Penang - to get one.  Those trips aren't "free."  The newer "border-bounce" / visa-exempt rules got rid of anyone who was hanging on by a thread.  These are people in Penang can afford the same extension cost as a retiree 4x per year, plus 4x trips out every year on top of that.

 

It is unfortunate so much money is wasted on trips and spent overseas, instead of simply getting rid of the "over 50" rule, and allowing more financially-independent people to spend more of their money in Thailand.  But, the authorities seem to prefer that money contribute to the economies of their neighbors, instead.

Financial independent people can get an investment visa, an elite visa. People who work or own a business can get a non-B visa. Don't see any problem for financial independent people.

[BritTim]

2 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

Financial independent people can get an investment visa, an elite visa. People who work or own a business can get a non-B visa. Don't see any problem for financial independent people.

I know plenty of financially independent people who would not consider a Thailand Elite visa or significant Thai investment just to get a visa to visit Thailand until they feel like going elsewhere. One very wealthy friend has been in six countries since October, but has been known to spend over six months some years in Thailand. He is unsure whether he will come again this year.

[FritsSikkink]

10 minutes ago, BritTim said:

I know plenty of financially independent people who would not consider a Thailand Elite visa or significant Thai investment just to get a visa to visit Thailand until they feel like going elsewhere. One very wealthy friend has been in six countries since October, but has been known to spend over six months some years in Thailand. He is unsure whether he will come again this year.

If you are very wealthy, they will let you in without a problem. You have to let them know of course.

Edited March 12, 2018 by FritsSikkink

[BritTim]

13 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

If you are very wealthy, they will let you in without a problem. You have to let them know of course.

I think that is usually the case. I have heard, though, of Indians and Russians who are loaded, but given grief anyway.

[Lovethailandelite]

It appears to have now moved on in Penang. Jim is stating to NOT overstay in Thailand or they will refuse to issue the visa. Looks like it could be coming back to bite those that liked to state an overstay wasn't a problem?
I wonder which Embassy or consulate will be the next to implement that rule?

[BritTim]

6 hours ago, Lovethailandelite said:

It appears to have now moved on in Penang. Jim is stating to NOT overstay in Thailand or they will refuse to issue the visa. Looks like it could be coming back to bite those that liked to state an overstay wasn't a problem?
I wonder which Embassy or consulate will be the next to implement that rule?

I am pretty sure there has been a change of top official at the Penang consulate a year or two ago. Since then, this once foreigner friendly consulate has erected increasingly onerous obstacles to people getting all kinds of visas there (Non B, Non O and tourist). It is possible this could become a trend elsewhere but, if so, I think this will happen slowly.

[ChiangMaiLightning2143]

What if passport country is not country of residence?

You’re screwed and they don’t care.

[sanemax]

12 hours ago, Lovethailandelite said:

It appears to have now moved on in Penang. Jim is stating to NOT overstay in Thailand or they will refuse to issue the visa.

Is he talking about a substantial overstay , or just a 1 day overstay ?

[Lovethailandelite]

29 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Is he talking about a substantial overstay , or just a 1 day overstay ?

Any overstay. Do not overstay or have an overstay stamp in your passport.

[chainarong]

On ‎6‎/‎03‎/‎2018 at 5:05 AM, overherebc said:

Re what other countries embassy would require this?

To GetReal.

UK and USA embassies ?

Australia

[LongTimeLurker]

On 3/8/2018 at 2:31 PM, lkv said:

Ed visa extensions cost 1900 + 1500 per three months.

Plus the 25+ thousand for the school for the course.

[LongTimeLurker]

On 3/11/2018 at 7:46 PM, Number 6 said:

I've not done this runner in years but last time I did, was asked for a bank book or proof of acct in Thailand.

 

Ironic no? Applying for a TR but have an account? Sounds like a trap. Didn't have my book anyway.

Same here for a Non-O

 

They weren't interested in my foreign bank accounts which they had accepted 6 months earlier.

 

Fortunately I had my Thai bank book as back up.

 

This was in October 2017.

Edited April 3, 2018 by LongTimeLurker

[the guest]

Certainly having to get a visa from the embassy would be much better in your home country. Then the conditions would be that you would have to provide firstly insurance, and secondly a return flight ticket. This would simply the process, and stamp out all the problems the authorities are facing with so-called tourists only trying to get to Thailand for others reasons (not tourist related).

[Lovethailandelite]

1 hour ago, the guest said:

Certainly having to get a visa from the embassy would be much better in your home country. Then the conditions would be that you would have to provide firstly insurance, and secondly a return flight ticket. This would simply the process, and stamp out all the problems the authorities are facing with so-called tourists only trying to get to Thailand for others reasons (not tourist related).

No doubt, eventually that's likely to happen in one form or another.

[JackThompson]

12 hours ago, the guest said:

Certainly having to get a visa from the embassy would be much better in your home country. Then the conditions would be that you would have to provide firstly insurance, and secondly a return flight ticket. This would simply the process, and stamp out all the problems the authorities are facing with so-called tourists only trying to get to Thailand for others reasons (not tourist related).

Why would shipping your body in an aluminum tube, half way across the world, to a nation you have not lived in for over 10 years be better?  What would it solve?  Why not send any needed documents electronically, instead? 

 

If validation of documents by a "home country" is needed, request an extra-fee and a couple-days delay for processing/validation, and let the person apply from any Thai Consulate.  If "hard copies" are needed to examine, there is Fed-Ex/DHL for that - no need to send "the human" all that way and back.

 

I do agree that it would make sense to require - at a minimum - "stabilize and evacuate to home-country" insurance, though this should be offered right at the entry-gate to Thailand, for those who don't have something already.

 

These fees could be used as a subsidy to the Thai national-insurance scheme, and any service provided would be carried out in Thai govt hospitals.  Granted, the private-hospital and insurance corporations would probably sabotage such a scheme.

[overherebc]

29 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

Why would shipping your body in an aluminum tube, half way across the world, to a nation you have not lived in for over 10 years be better?  What would it solve?  Why not send any needed documents electronically, instead? 

 

If validation of documents by a "home country" is needed, request an extra-fee and a couple-days delay for processing/validation, and let the person apply from any Thai Consulate.  If "hard copies" are needed to examine, there is Fed-Ex/DHL for that - no need to send "the human" all that way and back.

 

I do agree that it would make sense to require - at a minimum - "stabilize and evacuate to home-country" insurance, though this should be offered right at the entry-gate to Thailand, for those who don't have something already.

 

These fees could be used as a subsidy to the Thai national-insurance scheme, and any service provided would be carried out in Thai govt hospitals.  Granted, the private-hospital and insurance corporations would probably sabotage such a scheme.

If a UK expat and Thai wife want to have a one year holiday in UK the Thai wife will get a 6 month visa, the first time, at the end of that 6 months she, I believe, will be required to return to Thailand and apply for another visa. I don't think a border hop to somewhere for another 6 months is possible.

I can see, not tomorrow, but in the future the same conditions will come into force for long term tourists to Thailand.

Didn't bring 90 day reports etc into it by intension.

[oliverphoenix2]

Just got to Penang consulate to apply for tv and it's closed for 'all consular services'until 'further notice' as from Monday 2 april. Guard at gate said maybe reopen next week (or maybe not!). Flying back to Phuket tomorrow and hoping for visa exemption.

[ubonjoe]

5 minutes ago, oliverphoenix2 said:

Just got to Penang consulate to apply for tv and it's closed for 'all consular services'until 'further notice' as from Monday 2 april. Guard at gate said maybe reopen next week (or maybe not!). Flying back to Phuket tomorrow and hoping for visa exemption.

There was a topic posted about it last week. They verbally told the Phuket News it might be open on Friday.

 

 

[arithai12]

On 3/12/2018 at 7:23 AM, FritsSikkink said:

"all the Thai citizens who lose their livelihoods", what a joke, they can't pay for a proper visa but are aiding the economy by sooooo much.

On 3/12/2018 at 8:11 AM, JackThompson said:

Yes they can - that's why they are in Penang - to get one.  Those trips aren't "free."  The newer "border-bounce" / visa-exempt rules got rid of anyone who was hanging on by a thread.  These are people in Penang can afford the same extension cost as a retiree 4x per year, plus 4x trips out every year on top of that.

 

It is unfortunate so much money is wasted on trips and spent overseas, instead of simply getting rid of the "over 50" rule, and allowing more financially-independent people to spend more of their money in Thailand.  But, the authorities seem to prefer that money contribute to the economies of their neighbors, instead.

First of all, you are talking about tourist visas which are not "proper visas" for those who plan to live in Thailand very long periods. Second, the cost of hopping to Penang, spending a night, hopping back, is hardly "so much money". The ones who would "...lose their livelihoods" in case of a serious clamp down are mostly enterprises enabling those tricks we have been reading about here. I suppose they would be very quick in sensing the wind and adapt. All other tourism-related operators would barely notice.

As others said, this probably comes down from a requirement to stem out many abuses by people (often not farang) who come to Thailand on the pretext of being tourists and then stay illegally as scammers, phone center operators, "like" clickers, teachers or instructors without permit, etc.

I can well understand that people like you who, I assume, are legit and able to support themselves, are annoyed but your steam should be directed at those folks.

 

The over-50 rule.... what would you suggest? It's a number which apparently works for them in the status quo.

Those who are "financially independent" can always resort to Elite at say, 40, and then switch to retirement later. If I was younger than 40 and without the need to work, I would probably want to see the big world anyway.

 

 

[onera1961]

On 3/5/2018 at 8:01 PM, Get Real said:

I am not so well aware over their rules and regulations, but I would like to hear from you, how long time you can reside on tourist visas without risking refusal or questions regarding your stay?

I always wondered why people want to stay in Thailand on a tourist visa for long (more than 3 moths)? It is a cheap place and if some one wants to retire, it is OK. A digital nomad would like to move to different places after a stint of 2/3 months in a country. So, my question is why people would stay in Thailand on a tourist visa and what they really do in Thailand?

[sanemax]

3 minutes ago, onera1961 said:

So, my question is why people would stay in Thailand on a tourist visa and what they really do in Thailand?

I stay long term in Thailand on a TV , over 7 years now .

I quite like Thailand , thats why I stay here

[HooHaa]

On 3/6/2018 at 3:26 AM, BritTim said:

I have always considered ticket rental services to be a kind of fraud. However, they become very tempting when you need a ticket to home country in order to apply for a tourist visa. I wonder if Kuala Lumpur and Kota Bharu are going to implement similar conditions.

its not exactly rocket science to photoshop an itinerary

[elviajero]

3 minutes ago, onera1961 said:

I always wondered why people want to stay in Thailand on a tourist visa for long (more than 3 moths)? It is a cheap place and if some one wants to retire, it is OK. A digital nomad would like to move to different places after a stint of 2/3 months in a country. So, my question is why people would stay in Thailand on a tourist visa and what they really do in Thailand?

Because it is a way they can use the system to stay when they don't qualify for visas/permits designed for people that want to stay/live in the country. I'm sure there are lost of reasons they want to stay (tourism being the least likely), and that many are, in one way or another, working illegally to fund their stay. The door is closing, but until it's shut it's still an option for some.

 

It would be better if they called it a 'Visitor Visa' rather than a 'Tourist Visa' as these days the reason for genuine short term visits is varied.

[Get Real]

1 hour ago, onera1961 said:

I always wondered why people want to stay in Thailand on a tourist visa for long (more than 3 moths)? It is a cheap place and if some one wants to retire, it is OK. A digital nomad would like to move to different places after a stint of 2/3 months in a country. So, my question is why people would stay in Thailand on a tourist visa and what they really do in Thailand?

No understanding for that either. Just filed that question, but never got the answer.

[JackThompson]

 

1 hour ago, onera1961 said:

So, my question is why people would stay in Thailand on a tourist visa and what they really do in Thailand?

...

13 minutes ago, Get Real said:

No understanding for that either. Just filed that question, but never got the answer.

Most do the same things as retired people who are over 50, who qualify for a "retirement extension" or visa due to reaching the "magic age." 

 

But unlike the cheaper retirement option (1900 Baht/yr or pay an agent 12K), which people with lower-incomes (who have less to spend in Thailand) can afford, those on Tourist Visas must exert a lot more effort + funds to stay. 

 

Unfortunately, much of that additional income these people have is spent in neighboring countries, due to the "over 50" rule for retirement extensions / visas.

[Wang Lalker]

i figure the penang hotels arent paying enough tea money to the thai mbassy

[sanemax]

27 minutes ago, Get Real said:

No understanding for that either. Just filed that question, but never got the answer.

The same reason that everyone else stays in Thailand

[Get Real]

1 hour ago, sanemax said:

The same reason that everyone else stays in Thailand

That was not an answer on my question. Go back and read the original post.

For your answer anyway. Must be nice to worry all the time if you can come back to your child, your appartment, your girlfriend or your drinking pals. Or is this going to be the time they deny entry. Just stupid to stay to long time on tourist visa. To a clever and semilogical person the namne of the visa says something, but to all others not.