Trump economic adviser Gary Cohn quits after dispute over tariffs

[ostyan]

4 hours ago, Silurian said:

Gary Cohn was always an odd choice to be in the current administration. He is a democrat, a globalist and came from Goldman Sachs (which Donald dumped on several times during the campaign).

who needs more ?

[Proboscis]

The one big surprise here is that Cohn lasted so long. The way The Donald works is that he uses you to push for his particular views (although that can be a problem because his views change a lot) and then when you don't agree you are out.

 

It will therefore be no surprise when Navarro, who has particular views on trade that are politely considered "fringe" by other economists (they cannot find another economics professor who has the same protectionist views) but are currently loved by The Donald, is given the heave-ho.

 

Of course there will be no joined-up policy. And as has been the case recently, it will be up to the large cities to generate growth the best way they can.

[mikebike]

20 minutes ago, lannarebirth said:

Well, there's the perpetual war we're engaged in for one. Then there's the risk of losing those industries/jobs/technology, which really are strategically important.

 

That said, I'm not a fan of lazy tariffs. My tariff would be constructed around non renewable resource extraction taxes and differentials in environmental protections in the different manufacturing countries. If the competive advantage comes from destroying the environment I'd say that's worthy of a tariff. Probably a hefty one.

Then you really have no issue do you?

 

According to attrayant's graphic Canada has 70% of NA's aluminum smelting capacity, powered by hydro. USA's 30% powered mostly by coal. Unless the USA is planning to attack Canada I believe your supply chain is well protected and green.

[lannarebirth]

7 minutes ago, mikebike said:

Then you really have no issue do you?

 

According to attrayant's graphic Canada has 70% of NA's aluminum smelting capacity, powered by hydro. USA's 30% powered mostly by coal. Unless the USA is planning to attack Canada I believe your supply chain is well protected and green.

Not with Canada, no. Alcoa had two hydro powered plants with favorale BPA energy rates in Washington state at one time and both were closed for some reason. I don't know why.

 

In the case of Aluminum I think virtually all of the bauxite used in its production is imported.

Edited March 7, 2018 by lannarebirth

[samran]

10 minutes ago, lannarebirth said:

Not with Canada, no. Alcoa had two hydro powered plants with favorale BPA energy rates in Washington state at one time and both were closed for some reason. I don't know why.

 

In the case of Aluminum I think virtually all of the bauxite used in its production is imported.

I think the biggest factor is being able to have the bauxite mining and the energy source as close as possible. Hydro ideally, which is why Canada has the advantage.

 

If not, then the economics quickly become unfavourable.

Edited March 7, 2018 by samran

[InMyShadow]

3 hours ago, punchjudy said:

Trump is really starting to lose the plot........he needs removing from office

I think its on the cards after todays new scandal

 

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/03/06/politics/stormy-daniels-donald-trump-lawsuit/index.html

[lannarebirth]

2 minutes ago, InMyShadow said:

I think its on the cards after todays new scandal

 

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/03/06/politics/stormy-daniels-donald-trump-lawsuit/index.html

I'm not sure that would even make the top 10.

[Thaidream]

 I dislike Trump and his way of doing business- I see his Tariffs on Steel and Alum as a negotiating tool to force both Canada and Mexico to give way on the renegotiation of the North American FTA and show everyone else he 'means business'. However, his team of nationalist advisors are leading him down a slippery slope and a dangerous path. Trump loves debt and loves chaos but the majority of foreign nations like rational thinking and credibility. I expect at some point the tariffs  will go away or never be implemented but he always believes that he can ram anything down someone else's throat and one day he will be burned.

 

The fact is that America runs huge trade deficits with many countries but to me each has to be evaluated on its own.  Take Thailand and Vietnam- large deficits- American products cost 5 times more in each country than in the Us but  Thailand has a long term strategic relationship with the USA and cannot be allowed to fall into the chinese orbit by either default or overt action. Vietnam is also a potential anchor against Chinese influence as well as the Philippines.

 

The greatest economic threat to America, Canada, Europe and Australia is China simply because of their population; control by the Communist Party and an aggressive Worldwide move on natural resources and territory and a huge treasury filled with Dollars; Pounds and Euros. Trump needs  to understand that not all economic policy is a matter of dollars in and dollars out but part of a strategic World view.

 

In addition, China keeps buying up American debt which is a danger to American National security and must be stopped by moving to a balance budget. The Republicans claim to be fiscally conservative but just voted a useless tax cut which will cause another $1 Trillion rise in the deficit.

 

America needs allies and this is not the time to be playing Russian roulette with America's destiny.

 

 

[Jonnapat]

3 hours ago, punchjudy said:

Trump is really starting to lose the plot........he needs removing from office

I think you're a little late coming to this conclusion 

[mikebike]

1 hour ago, lannarebirth said:

Not with Canada, no. Alcoa had two hydro powered plants with favorale BPA energy rates in Washington state at one time and both were closed for some reason. I don't know why.

 

In the case of Aluminum I think virtually all of the bauxite used in its production is imported.

I believe Australia has the world's second largest bauxite reserves and THE largest mining capacity currently. So reserves and smelting capacity are well in hand for the USA. 

 

So what exactly is the "national security" issue regarding aluminum?

[samran]

8 minutes ago, mikebike said:

I believe Australia has the world's second largest bauxite reserves and THE largest mining capacity currently. So reserves and smelting capacity are well in hand for the USA. 

 

So what exactly is the "national security" issue regarding aluminum?

Yeah, I mean, Canada and Australia are hardly enemies of the US. But hey, lets hurt them the most, but if at least as my stupid voters think I'm winning against the Chinese, then its all worth it.

 

 

[ilostmypassword]

6 hours ago, lannarebirth said:

 

Cohn was never there for any other reason than to get the tax cut passed. I'm sure he was looking for an exit since the day it was voted into law. This was a perfect, early opportunty to get out and make it look like it was for some other reason than the reason he was there had ended.

And to slash regulations on the banks and financial institutions. Because we can never have too many financial meltdowns. Anyway, it looks like a bill in Congress to do just that is going to pass easily. Drain the swamp!

[mikebike]

Fooled ya Australia!!

 

The liar-in-chief was actually taken at his word by the poor, naive, Aussies...

https://www.smh.com.au/national/no-surprise-in-donald-trumps-decision-to-apply-trade-tariffs-20180306-h0x23o.html

Edited March 7, 2018 by mikebike

[ilostmypassword]

Just now, mikebike said:

Fooled ya Australia!!

 

The liar-in-chief was actually taken at his word by the poor, naive, Aussies...

 

https://www.smh.com.au/national/no-surprise-in-donald-trumps-decision-to-apply-trade-tariffs-20180306-h0x23o.html

 

"I find it amusing that Australia's politicians are stunned by Donald Trump's decision to apply trade tariffs that will hurt our steel and aluminum exports to the United States. They would do well to remember the words of President Charles de Gaulle of France – "The United States of America does not have friends, it has interests"."

What country do de Gaulle's words not apply to? 

[dunroaming]

8 hours ago, missoura said:

Throughout the years, in order to put food on the table, my job required that I explain stuff to 9-year old boys and girls. Not always successful and mistakes were made. Anyway, here is my attempt to explain tariffs to a fidgety class. 

.  Excuse me sir!  Having my hand thrust high in the air hoping to add something to the lesson.

 

Not that long ago there was something called product quality.  This was when countries like China were making cheaper steel but not of the same quality as steel being manufactured elsewhere, which was more expensive.  Not just steel but many other products too.  Then China and other countries in the region upped their game and the quality gap got closer and closer.  However the Chinese product still remained cheaper and for the companies using those products (working in a competitive market) they had to put on their business hats and buy the product that was the most cost effective.

 

I have to buy a new suit this week for a funeral.  There was a time when it would have been for a wedding but these days....  So I go on-line and work my way through the makes that I recognise.  Starting with Hugo Boss and then accepting that skinny fit suits and trousers may not be the best choice and looking at the other recognisable labels that would be more appropriate.  So I look at Ted Baker, Jaeger, Richard James etc.  Some of the better known names for decent quality British manufacturers.  I was pleased to see that the prices had not risen and in fact were cheaper than when I last looked.  Not hard to find the reason for that, they are all made in China.  So I delved a bit deeper and looked at the fashion labels like Next and River Island.  Same story.

 

There was a time when I would have rejected them out of hand but now I accept that in 2018  the word "quality"  can mean  "Made in China" or "Made in"  anywhere else.

[Thaidream]

Most Chinese products are of poor quality unless they are a Western Company making the product in China and using Western quality control. Nevertheless, I refuse to purchase Chinese manufacture goods regardless of the brand name as I will not provide any funds to the Chinese Government as I know they are a threat to the World economy. The I phone is made in China and is another thing I refuse to buy.

I have no quarrel with the Chinese people but everything is controlled by the State and  the time has come to recognize that the Chinese business model is predatory and must be contained.

[dunroaming]

7 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

Most Chinese products are of poor quality unless they are a Western Company making the product in China and using Western quality control. Nevertheless, I refuse to purchase Chinese manufacture goods regardless of the brand name as I will not provide any funds to the Chinese Government as I know they are a threat to the World economy. The I phone is made in China and is another thing I refuse to buy.

I have no quarrel with the Chinese people but everything is controlled by the State and  the time has come to recognize that the Chinese business model is predatory and must be contained.

You have your principles and they are commendable.  We all have our own red lines (excuse the pun), from vegetarians and vegans to people who won't buy German cars or wear real fur.  I have had quite a few flights back from China sitting next to the representatives from  big International companies having their goods made in China and you are right they have strict quality control in place. 

[Berkshire]

This is a good article that explains why Trump's view of the world is outdated.  And his views/policies will take America backwards, and certainly not for the good.

 

[It’s just the way modern economies evolve. As the economy becomes more productive, generating more wealth, capital naturally flows to activities that earn the highest return. Those tend to be innovative new industries that aren’t easily copied, where the value added by workers is high. So-called commodity products that are easy to duplicate—such as basic steel products, along with textiles, plastics, toys and many other routine things—offer a declining return on investment, and sometimes hardly any return. That’s why they tend to migrate to developing countries where production and labor costs are lower.]

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trumps-outdated-view-economy-002034964.html

[lannarebirth]

7 hours ago, dunroaming said:

.  Excuse me sir!  Having my hand thrust high in the air hoping to add something to the lesson.

 

Not that long ago there was something called product quality.  This was when countries like China were making cheaper steel but not of the same quality as steel being manufactured elsewhere, which was more expensive.  Not just steel but many other products too.  Then China and other countries in the region upped their game and the quality gap got closer and closer.  However the Chinese product still remained cheaper and for the companies using those products (working in a competitive market) they had to put on their business hats and buy the product that was the most cost effective.

 

I have to buy a new suit this week for a funeral.  There was a time when it would have been for a wedding but these days....  So I go on-line and work my way through the makes that I recognise.  Starting with Hugo Boss and then accepting that skinny fit suits and trousers may not be the best choice and looking at the other recognisable labels that would be more appropriate.  So I look at Ted Baker, Jaeger, Richard James etc.  Some of the better known names for decent quality British manufacturers.  I was pleased to see that the prices had not risen and in fact were cheaper than when I last looked.  Not hard to find the reason for that, they are all made in China.  So I delved a bit deeper and looked at the fashion labels like Next and River Island.  Same story.

 

There was a time when I would have rejected them out of hand but now I accept that in 2018  the word "quality"  can mean  "Made in China" or "Made in"  anywhere else.

 

Raise your hand again when "Made In China" also means environmental protections and worker safeguards.

[lannarebirth]

18 hours ago, Silurian said:

Gary Cohn was always an odd choice to be in the current administration. He is a democrat, a globalist and came from Goldman Sachs (which Donald dumped on several times during the campaign). I never understood how Cohn's global economic principles fit into the White House's protectionist ideals. How was this ever going to mix? Guess the writing was always on the wall with Cohn. It was just a matter of time before he would butt heads with the WH.

 

On brighter news, the Dow futures are tanking on the news that the Wall Street friendly WH economic adviser will be resigning. Now the real crazy protectionist economic policies from Peter Navarro can take over and drive the US economy into the ground. 

 

I'm now reading that to claim Cohn was a "globalist" is in fact "an anti-semitic dog whistle". You probably had no idea you were such an awful  person.  As Dylan said "All the truth in the world adds up to one big lie".

[Silurian]

7 hours ago, lannarebirth said:

 

I'm now reading that to claim Cohn was a "globalist" is in fact "an anti-semitic dog whistle". You probably had no idea you were such an awful  person.  As Dylan said "All the truth in the world adds up to one big lie".

 

Almost any term can be used in a derogatory way if properly applied. For me, a globalist is someone who believes that economic and foreign policy should be planned in an international way, rather than according to what is best for one particular country. Whereas nationalists/protectionists will put country first.

 

Cohn believes economic policy should be planned internationally as this not only benefits America but other countries as well. This is considered a win-win situation.

 

On the other hand the WH and advisers like Navarro believe America first no matter the international cost which will ultimately end up in a lose-lose situation. Isolationist policies stem from xenophobia.

 

Edited March 8, 2018 by Silurian

[Jai Dee]

A post containing a quote from another member which had been modified has been removed from this thread.

 

From the Forum Rules:

 

16) You will not make changes to quoted material from other members posts, except for purposes of shortening the quoted post. This cannot be done in such a manner that it alters the context of the original post.

[lannarebirth]

24 minutes ago, Silurian said:

 

Almost any term can be used in a derogatory way if properly applied. For me, a globalist is someone who believes that economic and foreign policy should be planned in an international way, rather than according to what is best for one particular country. Whereas nationalists/protectionists will put country first.

 

Cohn believes economic policy should be planned internationally as this not only benefits America but other countries as well. This is considered a win-win situation.

 

On the other hand the WH and advisers like Navarro believe America first no matter the international cost which will ultimately end up in a lose-lose situation. Isolationist policies stem from xenophobia.

 

 

Oh, c'mon. He just stole a Trillion dollars a year from your kids. The beautiful part is that it will be transferred globally. 

 

The self delusion that justifies every horrible thing of these past couple of generations astounds me. Except for the fact we've all been making money by sitting on our asses for 3 decades now. Maybe your kids can expect the same, but I doubt it.

[Silurian]

2 minutes ago, lannarebirth said:

Oh, c'mon. He just stole a Trillion dollars a year from your kids. The beautiful part is that it will be transferred globally. 

 

If you are talking about the terrible tax plan that the Republicans just past, I agree. The estimated long term cost is at $2.3 trillion! 

 

POLITICO analysis: At $2.3 trillion cost, Trump tax cuts leave big gap

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/02/28/tax-cuts-trump-gop-analysis-430781

 

FYI - I didn't say I was or wasn't a fan of Gary Cohn. But I am more fond of economic policies that are based on global planning instead of narrow-minded nationalistic plans. If America decides to become more isolationist then other countries such as China or Russia will rush in in hopes to become more influential on the global stage. The current WH administration seems hell bent on reducing America's global economic strength.

[lannarebirth]

14 minutes ago, Silurian said:

 

If you are talking about the terrible tax plan that the Republicans just past, I agree. The estimated long term cost is at $2.3 trillion! 

 

POLITICO analysis: At $2.3 trillion cost, Trump tax cuts leave big gap

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/02/28/tax-cuts-trump-gop-analysis-430781

 

FYI - I didn't say I was or wasn't a fan of Gary Cohn. But I am more fond of economic policies that are based on global planning instead of narrow-minded nationalistic plans. If America decides to become more isolationist then other countries such as China or Russia will rush in in hopes to become more influential on the global stage. The current WH administration seems hell bent on reducing America's global economic strength.

 

There's nothing wrong with global planning but if you're the only country that thinks that way it's a big problem. Every other country on Earth, no matter how enlightened they may seem is trying to beggar thy neighbor. China and Russia are both isolationist countries in the way we understand term that to mean.

Edited March 8, 2018 by lannarebirth

[ilostmypassword]

3 hours ago, lannarebirth said:

 

There's nothing wrong with global planning but if you're the only country that thinks that way it's a big problem. Every other country on Earth, no matter how enlightened they may seem is trying to beggar thy neighbor. China and Russia are both isolationist countries in the way we understand term that to mean.

Because the way to prosperity it so impoverish your neighbors? You really believe governments in general are so benighted as to believe that?

[Opl]

On ‎07‎/‎03‎/‎2018 at 1:49 AM, missoura said:

Throughout the years, in order to put food on the table, my job required that I explain stuff to 9-year old boys and girls. Not always successful and mistakes were made. Anyway, here is my attempt to explain tariffs to a fidgety class. 

 

First, would be a discussion on why their parents work. Eventually, it would boil down to money. Everyone needs money but some people have more than others.

 

Now, let’s say ½ of the class makes softball bats. These are made out of aluminum. We buy cheap and sell high. Cool, we are making money. But now we have to buy this metal at a higher cost. Why? Tariffs. This is what governments charge for stuff that comes from overseas. Our bats are going to cost us more money to make. This is a bad thing.

 

The good thing is that the other ½ of the class has a factory that makes aluminum. Because of the tariffs we can sell aluminum cheaper that what the tariffs are. We are going to make more money.

 

Hopefully, by the end of class these students have learned about tariffs and also a life lesson. Life is not always fair…

 

"The real cost of import restrictions is the harm they do to manufacturers of value-added products that use steel as an input. Those downstream manufacturers are a much larger factor in the U.S. economy (  $ 990 billion in 2014 - employment 6.5 million)  than are steel producers ($ 60 billion - employment : 400.000 ). "

https://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2016/05/23/us-china-steel-war/#3609f37667d2

[lannarebirth]

On 3/6/2018 at 6:05 PM, spidermike007 said:

Another top advisor departs the Trump swamp. Kudos to him for showing a bit of dignity, after a year working for Godzilla. Trump simply cannot attract much talent, and when he does, they are unwilling to stay once they are exposed to his crass and dictatorial style, and his gross incompetence. The ship continues to sink. 

 

•  

 

Quote

That's some high praise for a bag man for the 1%. Gary Cohn is personally responsible for blowing the biggest hole in the ship so far.

 

So, apparently, according to Bob Woodward's new book that Trump was looking to raise the highest tax bracket from 39.*% to 44.*% but Cohn convinced him into lowering it instead. I won't give my opinion on that lest it be construed as anti semitic.

[Basil B]

The revolving doors of the White House HR department go into overdrive...