Punishing UK for Brexit is "language of a gang" - trade minister Fox

[webfact]

Punishing UK for Brexit is "language of a gang" - trade minister Fox

 

Britain's International Trade Secretary Liam Fox gives a speech in London, Britain, February 27, 2018. REUTERS/Peter Summers

 

LONDON (Reuters) - Any suggestion from the European Union that Britain should be punished for leaving would turn it into a "gang", not a voluntary club of nations, and goes against the interests of EU member states, trade minister Liam Fox said on Thursday.

 

European leaders should realise that the competitiveness of the continent as a whole would be damaged by an approach that focused on taking a tough line on Britain in Brexit talks, Fox said.

 

But it was unclear whether the EU would take a pragmatic approach, he told the annual conference of the British Chambers of Commerce.

 

"That is largely dependent on the balance between the political ideology of an ever closer union that sees Britain's exit set an example to others that it is painful," he said.

 

"The idea of punishing Britain to me is not the language of a club, it is the language a gang."

 

EU negotiators have repeatedly stressed that punishment is not a motivation in Brexit talks.

 

On Wednesday, the EU offered Britain a free trade agreement for their post-Brexit relationship that fell well short of ambitions set out by Prime Minister Theresa May last week, notably for the key financial sector.

 

Donald Tusk, chairman of EU leaders, said Brexit would cause Britain and the EU to drift apart, contrasting sharply with May's call for future trade to be as "frictionless as possible".

 

(Reporting by David Milliken and Andrew MacAskill, editing by Stephen Addison)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2018-03-09

[Samui Bodoh]

16 minutes ago, webfact said:

Any suggestion from the European Union that Britain should be punished for leaving would turn it into a "gang", not a voluntary club of nations, and goes against the interests of EU member states, trade minister Liam Fox said on Thursday.

BooHoo! Sob! Sob!

 

What a poor, pretty little snowflake.

 

The UK is leaving the club, causing hardship and readjustment to all the remaining members. Personally, I think the EU has been very fair to the UK, discussing all issues and working to see if there is a way to ensure the least disruption and perhaps a future trading arrangement. They don't have to do that and in many ways it is in the interest of the EU to just say "don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out."

 

Stop whingeing.

 

[Guest]

23 minutes ago, webfact said:

European leaders should realise that the competitiveness of the continent as a whole would be damaged by an approach that focused on taking a tough line on Britain in Brexit talks, Fox said.

 

But it was unclear whether the EU would take a pragmatic approach, he told the annual conference of the British Chambers of Commerce.

Once again. EU's aim is to provide best possible long term results to EU citizens. That's the same aim as UK government has for its citizens. 

 

There is no reason for EU to punish UK. UK has managed to do that very well by itself.

 

 

[Scott]

Troll post removed.  

 

[Topdoc]

Time will tell that the British people made the right move here

[greenchair]

You don't get your cake and eat it. 

Britain wants all the perks, with none of the responsibilities. 

I  want, I  want. 

[Khun Han]

29 minutes ago, Samui Bodoh said:

BooHoo! Sob! Sob!

 

What a poor, pretty little snowflake.

 

The UK is leaving the club, causing hardship and readjustment to all the remaining members. Personally, I think the EU has been very fair to the UK, discussing all issues and working to see if there is a way to ensure the least disruption and perhaps a future trading arrangement. They don't have to do that and in many ways it is in the interest of the EU to just say "don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out."

 

Stop whingeing.

 

 

But the problem is that the EU, it's backers and supporters are making it as difficult as they possibly can to stop us from just leaving and not letting the door hit us on the ass on the way out. Their UK-based supporters have ensured that if our government tries to do that very thing, it will be disintegrated. Even white stick users can see this.

[rudi49jr]

29 minutes ago, Topdoc said:

Time will tell that the British people made the right move here

Or would that have been the wrong move? Like you said, time will tell. I know what what my money is on ...

[Samui Bodoh]

24 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

But the problem is that the EU, it's backers and supporters are making it as difficult as they possibly can to stop us from just leaving and not letting the door hit us on the ass on the way out. Their UK-based supporters have ensured that if our government tries to do that very thing, it will be disintegrated. Even white stick users can see this.

I think your post is "from the heart", but it displays the essential problem for the UK; a lack of consensus. And when I say a "lack of consensus", I don't mean the vote itself, but rather what it meant.

 

The UK voted to 'leave', but it didn't vote on how. Was the mandate for a 'soft Brexit'? Was the mandate for a 'hard Brexit'? Somewhere in between? Who the hell knows? No one!

 

This is a textbook example of why referendum(s) are a bad idea in a Parliamentary system; you have an unclear mandate to be implemented by a PM and leadership who didn't support it. The US military has a special word for these situations; a Cluster****! (the last letter is a 'K' if you were trying to guess)

 

The best thing the UK could do now is swallow its pride and shelve the idea of Brexit for a while (10 years? 20 years?). If there is a desire for Brexit in the future, start a party or enhance UKIP and work through the parliamentary system so that a future government can receive a clear mandate and not some general, meaningless nonsense from the voters.

 

Implementing Brexit under these conditions is a recipe for disaster, no matter how well-intentioned.

 

[Orac]

It is a gang,that is one of the biggest strengths of the EU. The whole aim when negotiating with other countries is for them to act as one to give them more power and a stronger negotiating position. If Liam Fox is pnly just realising this how on earth did he get his current role, surely he wasn't still under the impression he was going to negotiate with each EU country.

 

The rights or wrongs of Brexit aside we need some competent politicians in charge who are capable of negotiating the best deal we can get rather crying to the press because the lack the basic comprehension of how EU negotiate on trade.

[SheungWan]

2 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

BooHoo! Sob! Sob!

What a poor, pretty little snowflake.

The UK is leaving the club, causing hardship and readjustment to all the remaining members. Personally, I think the EU has been very fair to the UK, discussing all issues and working to see if there is a way to ensure the least disruption and perhaps a future trading arrangement. They don't have to do that and in many ways it is in the interest of the EU to just say "don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out."

Stop whingeing.

 

2 hours ago, Khun Han said:

But the problem is that the EU, it's backers and supporters are making it as difficult as they possibly can to stop us from just leaving and not letting the door hit us on the ass on the way out. Their UK-based supporters have ensured that if our government tries to do that very thing, it will be disintegrated. Even white stick users can see this.

... and the original white stick Conspiracy Theorists can keep us endlessly amused with their accusations of 5th Columnist Traitor Remainers holding back the UK from a heroic escape.

[malagateddy]

WTR..the way to go..just watch countries like Poland etc start on drunkard.barnier.tusk etc when they realise that the divorce check is not coming[emoji6]

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[KiChakayan]

6 hours ago, greenchair said:

You don't get your cake and eat it. 

Britain wants all the perks, with none of the responsibilities. 

I  want, I  want. 

And in that, nothing has changed since Maggy...

[Baerboxer]

7 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

BooHoo! Sob! Sob!

 

What a poor, pretty little snowflake.

 

The UK is leaving the club, causing hardship and readjustment to all the remaining members. Personally, I think the EU has been very fair to the UK, discussing all issues and working to see if there is a way to ensure the least disruption and perhaps a future trading arrangement. They don't have to do that and in many ways it is in the interest of the EU to just say "don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out."

 

Stop whingeing.

 

 

Your perception of what's fair is interesting. You missed all the demands, threats, and lack of positive suggestions from the EU negotiators then? 

 

Read about the UK contributions and balance of trade with member nations, the EU nations who want to control things, the Brussels bureaucrats who want to control things, and the complexities of power struggles within the EU made more so by other cliques of countries who are now also challenging the central authority some seek to wield,

 

Or perhaps your view of fairness is colored by your own prejudice.

[Baerboxer]

7 hours ago, oilinki said:

Once again. EU's aim is to provide best possible long term results to EU citizens. That's the same aim as UK government has for its citizens. 

 

There is no reason for EU to punish UK. UK has managed to do that very well by itself.

 

 

 

Then why are they not negotiating realistically?

 

The answer of course is the vain, bureaucratic, elected and non elected politicians that are trying to get something out of it. 

And sadly, that is the blight of all 28 country members.

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Then why are they not negotiating realistically?

 

The answer of course is the vain, bureaucratic, elected and non elected politicians that are trying to get something out of it. 

And sadly, that is the blight of all 28 country members.

What is negotiating realistically in this case? 

[boomerangutang]

Live by money, die by money.

[evadgib]

Here's what was said:

https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/historic-opportunity-for-uk-exporters

Edited March 9, 2018 by evadgib

[Walter Travolta]

The EU is made up of non elected self important sh!t's. They are scared to death that their empire is tottering on the brink, the domino effect is imminent and all they are bothered about is there own jobs, the huge salaries that go with it and the power and control. The UK will be well out of it and yet again will be pioneers. Anyone who feels all fluffy and safe under the CONTROL of the EU are the snowflakes. No backbone or bottle. We dont need you in the UK so move to a country in the EU and enjoy being taken care of into your 40s. Set of babies

[Orac]

Here's what was said:
https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/historic-opportunity-for-uk-exporters

This does not appear to say most of the stuff that is quoted in the original article and makes no reference to a gang or punishment.


Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Khun Han]

7 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

I think your post is "from the heart", but it displays the essential problem for the UK; a lack of consensus. And when I say a "lack of consensus", I don't mean the vote itself, but rather what it meant.

 

The UK voted to 'leave', but it didn't vote on how. Was the mandate for a 'soft Brexit'? Was the mandate for a 'hard Brexit'? Somewhere in between? Who the hell knows? No one!

 

This is a textbook example of why referendum(s) are a bad idea in a Parliamentary system; you have an unclear mandate to be implemented by a PM and leadership who didn't support it. The US military has a special word for these situations; a Cluster****! (the last letter is a 'K' if you were trying to guess)

 

The best thing the UK could do now is swallow its pride and shelve the idea of Brexit for a while (10 years? 20 years?). If there is a desire for Brexit in the future, start a party or enhance UKIP and work through the parliamentary system so that a future government can receive a clear mandate and not some general, meaningless nonsense from the voters.

 

Implementing Brexit under these conditions is a recipe for disaster, no matter how well-intentioned.

 

 

Your reply is uninformed. Cameron's government sent a pamphlet to every home in the UK, in which it was explained exactly what leaving the EU meant: that it meant leaving the single market and it meant leaving the customs union. The notion that this wasn't known prior to the referendum is a myth which has been propagated by the enduring remain campaign.

 

We are in the mess that we are in precisely because of the reason I stated in my post to which you replied. It has nothing to do with your absurd, oft-stated opinion that we are decades away from being ready for brexit. In fact, you claim is quite disingenuous: if it's difficult to do this now, and the Europe project succeeds, it will be impossible to leave a few years down the line. We need to get out of the EU abomination now, whilst we still can.

 

The real upshot of all this is that remain has made British politics even more toxic, sent it even further into the gutter. And this is where the UK will really be paying the price in coming decades. Expect to see the rise of extreme, non-consensus political parties, as has happened elsewhere in Europe. UKIP aint got nuthin on what's coming next.

Edited March 9, 2018 by Khun Han

[Laughing Gravy]

2 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

Your reply is uninformed. Cameron's government sent a pamphlet to every home in the UK, in which it was explained exactly what leaving the EU meant: that it meant leaving the single market and it meant leaving the customs union. The notion that this wasn't known prior to the referendum is a myth which has been propagated by the enduring remain campaign.

 

We are in the mess that we are in precisely because of the reason I stated in my post to which you replied. It has nothing to do with your absurd, oft-stated opinion that we are decades away from being ready for brexit. In fact, you claim is quite disingenuous: if it's difficult to do this now, and the Europe project succeeds, it will be impossible to leave a few years down the line. We need to get out of the EU abomination now, whilst we still can.

 

The real upshot of all this is that remain has made British politics even more toxic, sent it even further into the gutter. And this is where the UK will really[/] be paying the price in coming decades. Expect to see the rise of extreme, non-consensus political parties, as has happened elsewhere in Europe. UKIP aint got nuthin on what's coming next.

Eloquently put. 

[dunroaming]

8 hours ago, webfact said:

Any suggestion from the European Union that Britain should be punished for leaving would turn it into a "gang", not a voluntary club of nations, and goes against the interests of EU member states, trade minister Liam Fox said on Thursday.

What a stupid thing to say.

[Air Smiles]

Quote

LONDON (Reuters) - Any suggestion from the European Union that Britain should be punished for leaving would turn it into a "gang", not a voluntary club of nations, and goes against the interests of EU member states, trade minister Liam Fox said on Thursday.

 

Of course, when various countries tried to secure their independence from the British Empire they were never punished, instead invited over for tea and crumpets and waved off with a packed lunch and a hearty good luck.

-------------

 

Who on earth would want to make new business deals with the UK after watching all the boo hooing and childishness over the Brexit negotiations.

Edited March 9, 2018 by Air Smiles

[Samui Bodoh]

4 minutes ago, evadgib said:

We voted, we're leaving and no matter how hard it may be in the short term it will eventually become clear that the decision was sound. The only thing I'm not so sure of is who will be next to leave.

Please do not selectively edit my post for your own purposes.

[ResandePohm]

13 minutes ago, evadgib said:

We voted, we're leaving and no matter how hard it may be in the short term it will eventually become clear that the decision was sound. The only thing I'm not so sure of is who will be next to leave.

That is clearly Scotland leaving the once Great Britain and leaving behind it the remaining Little England on its own

[Air Smiles]

It's amazing how Brexiteers still think of the UK as having a strong negotiating position while its obvious, almost on a daily basis, the UK negotiating team are floundering.

 

The cries of 'oh why don't they just let us leave its so unfair' are particularly silly.

[Khun Han]

9 minutes ago, ResandePohm said:

That is clearly Scotland leaving the once Great Britain and leaving behind it the remaining Little England on its own

 

And off we go with the 'Little England" silliness again.

[darksidedog]

A post that only partially quoted another post, thus changing its context has been removed. A Trolling post has also been removed.

16) You will not make changes to quoted material from other members posts, except for purposes of shortening the quoted post. This cannot be done in such a manner that it alters the context of the original post.

[dunroaming]

It's just the same old rhetoric from me and the other members I am afraid.

 

25 minutes ago, evadgib said:

We voted, we're leaving and no matter how hard it may be in the short term it will eventually become clear that the decision was sound. The only thing I'm not so sure of is who will be next to leave.

When will it sink in?  Clearly the UK negotiating team doesn't think the decision is "sound".  May has already conceded that after Brexit we will be worse off.  Britain will recover eventually (maybe ten or twenty years) and then we may get back to where we are now.  How is that "sound"?

 

The only real option for the UK is a soft brexit which will mean free movement of people and us still (as far as trade is concerned) abiding by EU rules.  Plus we will not only have handed over £40 million but we will still be paying in but have no seat at the table.  The alternative is to walk away and economically bankrupt the country.