Bar Stool Discussions – Corruption

[laislica]

Corruption is everywhere and worldwide.

 

In Political circles it may be called Lobbying.
It may be that high level people in Government Regulatory Bodies get highly paid jobs in the industries that they were regulating. The revolving door!

In scientific circles they may be pressurized by withholding funding, into manipulating data to show the result that the funding group desire.

A poll in Thailand about corruption a couple of years ago showed that many Thai’s were not too concerned about the level of corruption in Thailand, but, that everyone should get their share!

 

Are you getting your share?
Have you ever “paid off” and had the problem go away?

 

Should it be stopped?
Can it be stopped?
If so how?

What do you think?

Edited March 9, 2018 by laislica

[themerg]

Yes, corruption is everywhere. Politicians talk and do nothing.

Here are 2 examples from USA:  1) campaign reform talk, the politicians look at it as why screw yourself out of your retirement fund secret stash. Talk and do nothing for 200 years.

                                           2) Alfonse DaMato, retired New York Congressman, head of the Banking Committee, swore to bring down credit card rates. Nothing done but talk and no results. For him, it would be like stabbing his Retirement stash contributors, the Banking lobbies, in the back.

LIAR, LIAR. Pants on fire. They should have an inside Congress fire department to extinguish all the pants on fire.

ALL politicians should be shot 2 times a day with rubber bullets just for the pain of it. Will Rogers said, " I never knew a politician I liked." I agree with Will.

Edited March 9, 2018 by themerg

[OneMoreFarang]

I think the main problem in Thailand is that many Thai just don't know "no corruption". They are used to it from early age and many Thais think corruption exists all over the word (most never visited another country even for one day).

 

I spoke with a few Thais about this and for them it is just obvious that people join the police, administration, politics, etc. because of the money they make (in corruption). I heard: Why else would they do that job if not for the money they can make?

 

My experience with paying bribes is limited. I only paid lots of 100B notes to police most of the time for not driving on the left lane with my bike. When they stop me I see the following option:

 

A) lots of talking for a long time until the guy gets annoyed and maybe not paying at all

waiting for them to fill out the form, visiting the police station hours later or in the next days and paying maybe 400B

C) paying 100B cash and all is over in 2 minutes.

 

For me the choice is easy...

 

Edited March 9, 2018 by OneMoreFarang

[ncc1701d]

My ex brother in law has a few businesses in Nigeria. When I asked him about corruption, he said he and the people love it. According to him, it basically limits big foreign companies from coming in a taking everything over. 

 

My tgf pays off some head of police in the local area and they basically turn a blind eye to her shop operating hours. 

[laislica]

27 minutes ago, ncc1701d said:

My ex brother in law has a few businesses in Nigeria. When I asked him about corruption, he said he and the people love it. According to him, it basically limits big foreign companies from coming in a taking everything over. 

 

My tgf pays off some head of police in the local area and they basically turn a blind eye to her shop operating hours. 

 

In my working life I was sent to Nigeria to find out if they really had the money to really buy traffic control systems.

(They didn't and even if they did they don't work)
When a light is green, you stop, cos for sure some a'hole will steam through their red and kill you LOL

 

When I needed to see the permanent secretary for state, our agents did not make an appointment, we just turned up.

There were rows of sofas in the waiting room full of people who had taken a number and were waiting, several days to see the man.
 

We just marched in and had our meeting.

Our agent said I was the honky factor lol

Yes I was happy with that level of corruption....

 

[TKDfella]

Ha, Corruption has been up there along Sex Orgies etc. for thousands of years...gosh it's part of human heritage. Seriously though, I suppose it's all down to greed in the end and we've probably all got it to a greater or lesser degree. Some of us can control it some of us can't...we are that way and we must do the best we can to live with it. It is no secret now that private companies can't wait to get to the Moon and Mars to start mining (been in the News for a while now) and can you imagine what is going to happen if they find Gold or Diamonds (etc)? It'll start all over again 'up there'. But the Tax man is going to be a winner as drafts have been written that say if it's a company on Earth extracting minerals etc. then Moon Rock is taxable. Ha, we just can't help ourselves.

[Lacessit]

Corruption is endemic in Western countries too. It's just much better disguised.

[JAZZDOG]

In many countries the regulations and laws are such that it is literally impossible to do things legally. At first I thought the powers that be were just clueless. After doing business in these countries over the years I've come to realize this was by design. To avoid the Catch-22 that was created they knew people would be forced into the shadows to get things accomplished. I initially detested the idea of paying bribes until I realized it would be the only way to get what I wanted in my lifetime. Unlike in Florida where I was a developer and could spend a hundred thousand dollars on a proposed projects planning then being turned down repeated by county board of commissioners, then having to reapply taking years. Bribes usually end in instant results and for far less money than in the daylight. I think that is why Thai look at Farang as foolish to believe things can actually be done by the book, it's the culture, it is not going to change.

[seabass69]

Thailand doesn’t have a problem with corruption...it’s as prevalent as it ever was.

[Wullie Mercer]

I remember many years ago, when I first started coming to LOL, around 1985 or so.

I stayed with a fellow Scot in his guest house, he was running and buying, one morning we were having one of our many discussions on life here in Thailand. He come out with a quote that has stuck with me to this day, as I have lived here now for some 26 years I understand what he was trying to say.

He would sat.

" There is corruption and there is taxation.

With corruption you have some say on how much you pay and you know exactly where the money goes.

With taxation you have little or no say on how much you pay and you definitely don't know where your money goes

So which is better".

I often wonder.

 

 

[Russell17au]

I am only going to comment on Thailand here.

I believe that the reason for so much corruption here in Thailand by the lower classes like the police officers and immigration officers is because of the low rates of pay and the non supply of equipment that they need to do their job that they must get underhand payments to be able to live. I do not know of any country that forces its police officers to buy their own equipment like guns, bikes, uniforms, every country I know of the government supply this equipment and pay a decent wage as well. To me it is not so much the police that are corrupt as they are doing it to survive it is the hierarchy of the country, the politicians, the big business men that are the corrupt ones because it is their money grabbing that is not being given to the lower class people.

[ScammedInThailand]

On ‎09‎/‎03‎/‎2018 at 4:15 PM, OneMoreFarang said:

I think the main problem in Thailand is that many Thai just don't know "no corruption". They are used to it from early age and many Thais think corruption exists all over the word (most never visited another country even for one day).

 

I spoke with a few Thais about this and for them it is just obvious that people join the police, administration, politics, etc. because of the money they make (in corruption). I heard: Why else would they do that job if not for the money they can make?

 

My experience with paying bribes is limited. I only paid lots of 100B notes to police most of the time for not driving on the left lane with my bike. When they stop me I see the following option:

 

A) lots of talking for a long time until the guy gets annoyed and maybe not paying at all

waiting for them to fill out the form, visiting the police station hours later or in the next days and paying maybe 400B

C) paying 100B cash and all is over in 2 minutes.

 

For me the choice is easy...

 

Corruption in Thailand is both endemic and systemic - it is a way of life. It infects every facet of Thai society - from the government, police, courts and the 'justice' system [LOL], immigration, business, industry and even religion. Corruption will always exist in Thailand as there is absolutely no incentive to change - like pigs with their snouts in a trough everyone wants their share.

 

Even more disappointing is the fact that since General Prayut and his sycophants took control of the country - corruption has become much worse [Thailand has risen from ranked 101st most corrupt country in 2014 to 70th in 2017]. Cleary General Prayut is as much a part of the problem as anyone else. 

[Here It Is]

Just accept TIT and you'll be fine.  Always nice to know that a problem can disappear with hard cash.  Never had to call on this facility but sure will do one day or another.

[OneMoreFarang]

2 hours ago, Here It Is said:

Just accept TIT and you'll be fine.  Always nice to know that a problem can disappear with hard cash.  Never had to call on this facility but sure will do one day or another.

But then there is obviously that problem if you are the victim and the criminal uses this method to get away with whatever he did.

[laislica]

1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said:

4 hours ago, Here It Is said:

Just accept TIT and you'll be fine.  Always nice to know that a problem can disappear with hard cash.  Never had to call on this facility but sure will do one day or another.

But then there is obviously that problem if you are the victim and the criminal uses this method to get away with whatever he did.

 

Yes, that's the downside all right!

.

In 2014 my 19 y/o step son was murdered in one of those inter college gang fights in Bangkok.

He was with a school friend, waiting for the bus to school.

A car with 4 other students stopped and the 4 guys used lumps of wood and reinforcing bar on our two.

Our lad fought too hard and someone shot him in the gut and he died.

The police did nothing.

They said that this sort of thing is accepted by Thai people, case closed.