rooster59 Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 Saudi Crown Prince signs off UK visit with push for fighter deal By William James and Stephen Kalin Britain's Archbishop of Canterbury Justin Welby shows The Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia Mohammed bin Salman the Birmingham Koran manuscript - one of the earliest surviving records of the Koran, written in Hijazi, and radiocarbon dated to between 568 and 645 AD - during a private meeting at Lambeth Palace, London, Britain, March 8, 2018. REUTERS/Yui Mok/Pool LONDON/RIYADH (Reuters) - Britain and Saudi Arabia took a step closer to a multi-billion- pound arms deal on Friday, touching on the most inflammatory element of their relationship at the end of an official visit to London that has mixed warm diplomacy with angry street protests. The two countries also said they had made trade deals worth more than $2 billion, without providing details. Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman has been in the British capital for three days on a mission to build broader trade and investment ties, meeting Queen Elizabeth, Prime Minister Theresa May, key ministers and executives. The countries signed a letter of intent to finalise talks on a multi-billion-pound order for 48 Typhoon aircraft made by BAE Systems <BAES.L>. The deal has been under discussion for years but has proven tough to seal. "The Crown Prince's visit has opened a new chapter in our two countries' historic relationship," British Defence Secretary Gavin Williamson said. "We have taken a vital step towards finalising another order for Typhoon jets that will increase security in the Middle East and boost British industry and jobs in our unrivalled aerospace sector," he said. Britain and Saudi Arabia have set themselves a 65 billion- pound ($90 billion) trade and investment target for the coming years, with London looking for new post-Brexit markets for its services sector, and Prince Mohammed seeking to convince wary investors his country is a tolerant and modernising place. But for now the heart of bilateral trade ties remains defence and security. Britain credits Saudi intelligence-sharing with saving British lives and has licensed billions of pounds of weapons and ammunition sales to Saudi Arabia. That has provided a controversial backdrop to the warm diplomatic welcome for Prince Mohammed, with hundreds turning out on Wednesday to protest arms sales and Saudi Arabia's role in Yemen's civil war. Prime Minister May defended the two countries' defence ties on Wednesday, saying all arms sales were strictly regulated. The deal for the Typhoon fighters has become bogged down in negotiations over where production of the jet will take place, with Saudi Arabia keen to have some parts of the process on Saudi soil. "If agreed, this shameful deal will be celebrated in the palaces of Riyadh and by the arms companies who will profit from it, but it will mean even greater destruction for the people of Yemen," said Andrew Smith of the Campaign Against Arms Trade. PUBLIC RELATIONS Despite an unusual advertising blitz that saw adverts promoting Prince Mohammed and Saudi Arabia appear in national newspapers and on taxis and electronic billboards across London, the visit was knocked from the British front pages by the poisoning of a Russian double agent. Prince Mohammed's itinerary was largely private, including meetings with bankers, executives and lawmakers, and he did not speak publicly at any point during the trip. But, in Riyadh, images of the 32-year old Saudi meeting the Christian cross-wearing head of the Anglican church on Thursday dominated newspapers, with headlines citing it as an example of the conservative kingdom's more tolerant approach to religion. An image of the heir-apparent striding up Downing Street towards May's office was lauded by Saudis on social media as emblematic of his youth, confidence, determination and enthusiasm. The thorny topic of Yemen was on the agenda at a private dinner at May's country residence on Thursday night, but it was tempered with gifts: May's office said she presented Prince Mohammed with a family tree showing the descent of the Al Saud dynasty. Downing Street said the framed document was originally created by Queen Victoria's consul general in Jeddah in 1880. The two countries pledged 100 million pounds of joint funding to support economic growth in the Horn of Africa and East Africa, the joint statement said. ($1 = 0.7219 pounds) -- © Copyright Reuters 2018-03-10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post boomerangutang Posted March 10, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted March 10, 2018 More weapons for the Middle East. ....nothing could go wrong with that, could it? Saudis are bombing civilians in Yemen, and rattling swords with Iran. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lungstib Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 1 hour ago, rooster59 said: Britain and Saudi Arabia have set themselves a 65 billion- pound ($90 billion) trade and investment target for the coming years, A sum guaranteed to generate a warm welcome and kind words from a government that needs all the trade it can get. With friends like this who needs enemies. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhonThong Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 So much complaining about the USA supplying arms to the Middle East. But, here goes the Brits. Gee, I wonder if anyone has a problem with that? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post vogie Posted March 10, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted March 10, 2018 8 minutes ago, PhonThong said: So much complaining about the USA supplying arms to the Middle East. But, here goes the Brits. Gee, I wonder if anyone has a problem with that? If the Brits don't supply them, I'm sure somebody else would. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Grouse Posted March 10, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted March 10, 2018 10 minutes ago, vogie said: If the Brits don't supply them, I'm sure somebody else would. Oh, well, that's OK then! Pragmatism always trumps morality. Except the Germans banned military sales to Saudi Arabia. I guess they are not quite as desperate as the British 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post vogie Posted March 10, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted March 10, 2018 24 minutes ago, Grouse said: Oh, well, that's OK then! Pragmatism always trumps morality. Except the Germans banned military sales to Saudi Arabia. I guess they are not quite as desperate as the British Where did I say it'ok, are you saying that if we don't supply the Saudis nobody else will. So I ask you is my post incorrect? And BTW if I had chickenpox you would have had german measels. As much as you would like to believe that Germany is at the centre of the universe, it isn't. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post lincolnshire poacher Posted March 10, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted March 10, 2018 3 hours ago, boomerangutang said: More weapons for the Middle East. ....nothing could go wrong with that, could it? Saudis are bombing civilians in Yemen, and rattling swords with Iran. Not only that they are exporting Wahabism. a major terrorist organisation and financing mosques and Imams, some sprouting hate for the West throughout Europe. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post jacko45k Posted March 10, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted March 10, 2018 42 minutes ago, Grouse said: Oh, well, that's OK then! Pragmatism always trumps morality. Except the Germans banned military sales to Saudi Arabia. I guess they are not quite as desperate as the British Perhaps Britain relishes not being told what it can and cannot do by Germany in the future. 6 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacko45k Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 1 minute ago, lincolnshire poacher said: Not only that they are exporting Wahabism. a major terrorist organisation and financing mosques and Imams, some sprouting hate for the West throughout Europe. I have hopes that this new Crown Prince will steer the KSA in another direction. Sadly it looks like he will still need weapons! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post ilostmypassword Posted March 10, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted March 10, 2018 1 minute ago, jacko45k said: Perhaps Britain relishes not being told what it can and cannot do by Germany in the future. I wasn't aware the Britain was currently being told by Germany what it can and cannot do. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lincolnshire poacher Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 1 hour ago, PhonThong said: So much complaining about the USA supplying arms to the Middle East. But, here goes the Brits. Gee, I wonder if anyone has a problem with that? Of course many of us Brits have a problem with that. The government is making a trade off between Saudi inspired terrorism and loadsa money made from arms sales 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lincolnshire poacher Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 17 minutes ago, jacko45k said: I have hopes that this new Crown Prince will steer the KSA in another direction. Sadly it looks like he will still need weapons! Of course he will but he will only bomb moderately and only have a moderate number of heads chopped off and the wahabi hate preachers will only promote moderate hate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuamRudy Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 21 minutes ago, jacko45k said: Sadly it looks like he will still need weapons! Need as in require, or need as (not) in desire? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuamRudy Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 Billions of pounds being spend on weapons to kill people who exist on less than a dollar a day. Morals have never actually been of huge importance to any UK government when it comes to self enrichment, but languishing death throes of the current one means that amorality is its preferred, nay only, way forward. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lincolnshire poacher Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 22 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said: I wasn't aware the Britain was currently being told by Germany what it can and cannot do. Me neither, that's just Brexit propaganda from people who are trying to justify sending Britain down the toilet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lincolnshire poacher Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 7 minutes ago, RuamRudy said: Billions of pounds being spend on weapons to kill people who exist on less than a dollar a day. Morals have never actually been of huge importance to any UK government when it comes to self enrichment, but languishing death throes of the current one means that amorality is its preferred, nay only, way forward. Unfortunately you are right and it is even more so with the present Tory government. They that gave the DUP a billion pound bribe to try to keep their rotten adminidtration afloat 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaibeachlovers Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 Oh goody. More weapons for a region awash with them ( not like they'll ever be used against us then? ) in exchange for wahabism. What could go wrong with that deal? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lincolnshire poacher Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said: Oh goody. More weapons for a region awash with them ( not like they'll ever be used against us then? ) in exchange for wahabism. What could go wrong with that deal? Cheap at twice the price!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owl sees all Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 1 hour ago, vogie said: If the Brits don't supply them, I'm sure somebody else would. Well let somebody else supply them. The Uk should have a higher standard than this. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post vogie Posted March 10, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted March 10, 2018 4 minutes ago, owl sees all said: Well let somebody else supply them. The Uk should have a higher standard than this. My reply is about fact, not morality. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post thaibeachlovers Posted March 10, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted March 10, 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, owl sees all said: Well let somebody else supply them. The Uk should have a higher standard than this. It's somewhat ironic that they are selling arms to a nation that probably has better weapons than the British military do. Still, they have to make enough money to pay for their aircraft carrier to have planes on it. Edited March 10, 2018 by thaibeachlovers 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post owl sees all Posted March 10, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted March 10, 2018 (edited) All these weapons will come back to haunt the human race. It will kick off one day. Brits will be killed by the very weapons they are selling. Maybe not in my time, but soon. Don't know where it will start; Europe, Middle East or the collapse of the Petro Dollar maybe. Love is the answer, not weapons; but Governments of the world are not listening too well. Edited March 10, 2018 by owl sees all 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chomper Higgot Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 The UK is about to walk away from the single biggest integrated market in the world and its largest trading partner. They need to do deals wherever they can find them. Today Saudi Arabia, not so long back reversing government policy on Hinkley B at the instruction of the Chinese. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owl sees all Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 13 minutes ago, vogie said: My reply is about fact, not morality. Yes! You are right Vogie; unfortunately. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuamRudy Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 4 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said: The UK is about to walk away from the single biggest integrated market in the world and its largest trading partner. They need to do deals wherever they can find them. Today Saudi Arabia, not so long back reversing government policy on Hinkley B at the instruction of the Chinese. I am not sure if you are in favour of the deal, but the reality is that the deal is enabling the indiscriminate killing of innocent civilians. You cannot be in favour of the former without being nonchalant about the latter. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krataiboy Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 1 hour ago, ilostmypassword said: I wasn't aware the Britain was currently being told by Germany what it can and cannot do. Germany runs the EU and the EU runs. . . Not rocket science, really. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evadgib Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 https://www.gov.uk/government/news/britain-and-saudi-arabia-to-strengthen-cultural-links-and-boost-trade https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-and-saudi-arabia-sign-memorandum-of-understanding-on-clean-energy https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-hosts-first-joint-executive-committee-on-healthcare-with-saudi-arabia I have no idea how Scotland might fare in any of this but its fair to assume that they will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chomper Higgot Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 8 minutes ago, RuamRudy said: I am not sure if you are in favour of the deal, but the reality is that the deal is enabling the indiscriminate killing of innocent civilians. You cannot be in favour of the former without being nonchalant about the latter. I'm not at all in favour of the arms trade. I simply observe that the UK has placed itself in a position of having to take any business it can. As an aside, I note there is significant pushback in the UK over this deal - by no means can it be said that selling arms to the Saudis enjoys wide public or cross party support. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhonThong Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 11 minutes ago, RuamRudy said: I am not sure if you are in favour of the deal, but the reality is that the deal is enabling the indiscriminate killing of innocent civilians. You cannot be in favour of the former without being nonchalant about the latter. History repeats itself, and that's one of the things that's wrong with history. Clarence Darrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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