Multiple Entry NON-"O' from Singapore

[papakapbaan]

They should do their mind. It's natural for a PARENT to SUPPORT a CHILD. It does not matter if the parent is FARANG and the child is THAI!

My understanding of this whole thing (7.17 of 606/2006) is that they were so EAGER TO GET RID OF THE NOTION OF A FARANG SUPPORTING A THAI (get rid of the notion EVERYWHERE in 606/2006) that they wrote a completely TING TONG CLAUSE. TING TONG by any standard!

I wouldn't be so sure about the ting tong. They may actually have put some thought into it and made up their minds that

1. in Thailand it is natural for the parents of a child to be married

2. an unmarried father younger than 50 living continuously in Thailand may be working in Thailand without work permit and without paying taxes

The resulting clause 7.17(5) is now making life difficult for young, unmarried fathers who have sufficient financial means to live in Thailand without having to work.

Just the same, you have a good point and are not alone with it. I remember Sunbelt writing, soon after October 1, that the way 7.17(5) is written is "nuts".

--

Maestro

Yes, I guess it's the same reason why they refuse retirees below 50.

Indeed, they may have a point too.

However the end result of the reasoning/reasons is still a TING TONG clause (father below 50 does not qualify).

1. It's more natural for any parent to SUPPORT a child than it is to marry the mother. Marriage is cultural. SUPPORT is natural.

2. It does not make sense/is not fair to grant the right to live permanently in Thailand to a married father and to refuse the same right to an unmarried father.

Simply because the married father is not here under any "SUPPORT Thai family" provision (he is here under a "family income" provision: the family earns 40,000/month). Simply because they feel good about the fact we are not talking about any SUPPORT.

In other words: If I was married, I could show "income". Because I'm not, I can NOT SUPPORT my child! (or only remotely maybe........) :-(

I said it in earlier posts and I will say it again: there is an "ideological drive" behing these new rules Police Order 606/2006. Maybe coupled with practical considerations about illegal workers. Possibly. If so, this bit must be more political ("electoralist") than an answer to real concerns! BTW.

They don't want to know anything about SUPPORT anymore. I am a bit surprised that nobody here really pointed it out so far: NO MORE NOTION OF SUPPORT in Police Order 606/2006.

[TAWP]

Great, so now one can be denied non-o, even though one is married, just for lacking founds in a bank-account...

[Morch]

I already mentioned in the previous thread that Melbourne was also no problem for me last week. No mention was made regarding money. Marriage certificate = Thai wife = visa and permission to live with her. Just as it should be.

At the moment. Who knows what happens tomorrow.

Had the same experience back home (Israel) last month.

[lopburi3]

Great, so now one can be denied non-o, even though one is married, just for lacking founds in a bank-account...

The only thing I have seen mentioned is multi entry visas. They have always been harder to obtain than single entry but now they appear to be setting a standard to allow issue if you can prove your wealth. Should make things easier for those working overseas with frequent trips to Thailand as now they will have a Consulate that they know will issue the visa if they show the bank account.

[Krub]

This is my experience with the embassy in Singapore, were I got my mutiple entry Non-im "O" Jan. 11th.

I showed up outside the Thai embassy 30 min. before opening time and was #5 in line. Got the application form from the security guy while i was waiting.

Inside the embassy I was waiting for about 5 min. I gave them these copies: copy of my passport, copy of my wife's passport, copy of birth certificate, copy of marriage certificate and 1 pass photo along with the application form. That was all they needed. (I'm younger than 50).

Went back to the embassy the day after at 2 o'clock. Waited 5-10 min in line to collect my passport. No fee for the visa. So everything went very smooth and quick.

Not a too expensive trip eather. Roundtrip BKK - Singapore with Airasia cost me 4450 bath.

Have a nice trip to Singapore!

No fee for the visa, this seems very strange. Also was it a 1 year Non-Im O ?

[thai_narak]

In other words, you cannot have a family in Thailand if you are not in a certain living standard set by the Thai immigration. OR even if you have a family, when you lose your job or earning less, get out of Thailand!

I have money and everything now but what if one day when it is a little rather "just enough" situation arise? This is really a harsh rule.

[papakapbaan]

In other words, you cannot have a family in Thailand if you are not in a certain living standard set by the Thai immigration. OR even if you have a family, when you lose your job or earning less, get out of Thailand!

I have money and everything now but what if one day when it is a little rather "just enough" situation arise? This is really a harsh rule.

I think it is correct to say "Nothing really new!" here. (Nothing really surprising)

Yes, it is "harsh" if you don't meet the financial requirements. And it is worrying for almost everybody else with family here.

But foreigners married to nationals never ever had it easy in Thailand!

(Amusing really how some apparent newbies here think "It will be a breeze"................ Kindly, BTW)

You "show money" (now salary) every year to be granted a temporary 1 year "extension" of stay, you report every 90 days like a convict on parole, you can't own your house or a land, you can't work (on the basis of marriage)........ OK enough. Compare this situation with Europe where foreigners married to nationals get an ID card and the right work after 1 year!

(We all know that. I could not resist the urge to write it again for the many newbies who popped up here in just a few hours!)

1) For years (decades), people who did not qualify financially for annual extensions of stay used and abused multiple entry visas.

In the eyes of Thai Immigration, permanent stay on multiple entry was always -and still is- ABUSE of the system.

(BTW I do not judge. Surely not. I am one of the many unlucky permanent "de facto" residents who basically do not have any other option to stay in Thailand than multiple entry visas. Not because I do not meet their financial requirements. Because they do not want to know about my financial means! I am below 50 and they decided I do not qualify to support my Thai child).

2) Actually, with this new requirement (400,000 baht savings for Multiple NON-O) it seems like they keep tolerating and even kind of acknowledge the abuse and still leave some doors open.

Typically Thai.

The more I read about it, the more I see this whole "visa-shake" issue as a "FLOOD CONTROL" issue.

You can not understand it better than as a mere FLOOD CONTROL issue :-(

Truly, I think fairness was never high in any agenda here. Nowhere. And definitely not in the Immigration regulations!

I say it will all the sadness of the world. (The future of my daughter -and our future together- is at stake).

---

BOTTOM LINE:

At this point, I'm honestly curious to see what they will do with all the "family cases" who are filtered out of the system.

Either because they do not meet financial requirements (40,000/month for annual extension and now, 400,000 savings for multiple entry visa) or because they are deemed to young to be recognized as parents! (if below 50)

I MEAN PRACTICALLY. Will they really refuse entry, separate families, let children drop out of schools and even create semi-orphan children etc. (cases where the solo farang father is in charge)??? What will they do???

Surely not everybody will decide to go home. Despite all the obvious pressure/clear invitation!

(And not everybody is able -financially or even legally- to bring his family to his home country).

[TAWP]

Great, so now one can be denied non-o, even though one is married, just for lacking founds in a bank-account...

The only thing I have seen mentioned is multi entry visas. They have always been harder to obtain than single entry but now they appear to be setting a standard to allow issue if you can prove your wealth. Should make things easier for those working overseas with frequent trips to Thailand as now they will have a Consulate that they know will issue the visa if they show the bank account.

Yes, I know it's about multi-entry. Which I have. And about 400K in the bank, which I don't.

And this is a change to the harder. And quite frankly if I had to get a new Visa next month I would be royaly screwed. Luckely I don't, but it's only months away anyway...

[tijnebijn]

So is it really absolutely sure that you have to show the 400k??

I do not have it right now,just spend a number like that too open a new business for my wife to try to ,slowly get to the 40k a month scenario......very harsh now in 3 months time I wanted to renew my multiple.....

I am one of them who does not have a job,and i am only 30 years old ,but stay 8 years allready.....

Is it really goning .let's say all around the globe,or just SE asia.Cause eventually I believe i will manage to heve what they ask for,but common I need some time,still young and got a family of four....

If in a few months I can get the multiple in my homecountry,I will just fly over there.

Can anybody surely tell me,it will be a vast rule or just for Sing????

A friend of mine got it only a week ago,without showing cash...

[Lop]

Quoted:

"No fee for the visa, this seems very strange. Also was it a 1 year Non-Im O ?"

Surely it is a 1 year visa since it is multiple entries. But free, no that can't be possible. A visa like that is gonna cost you 5000 Baht.

//Lopburi

[BlueScouse]

I also don't have the money in a Thai bank,but have enough in UK banks.

If I show a printout of the total amounts,will this suffice.

I also have a letter from my company stating my salary,c. 250k baht per month.

If I show these,will I be able to get a multiple visa?Had one for the last few years from Penang.

Don't work in Thailand,only stay with wife and children about 5 months a year.

[Likenitstill]

Just got back from KL, chose this route as all the threads and advice suggested stay away from Penang for multi entri visas.

Asked for the NON O and next day I picked up my visa with a single entry NON B !! I Wrote on the application "Non O for marriage visa".

Had all the required papers and more showed legal marriage and house papers etc. OK I am confused, they said I just need to go to the immigration office in the kingdom to get it changed to one year status.

Please advise

You are not working in Thailand? Did you have a previous B visa? Without a work permit or such evidence they should not have provided you a non immigrant B visa but if you are planning to extend your stay with Immigration on the basis of 40k family income I expect immigration will be able to do that OK as the important item is a non immigrant visa of some type.

If you do not plan to extend your stay and are not working I would just make sure to use a different Consulate next time and put family visit as reason for visa.

Thanks...Not working had a non B 3 years ago this time asked specifically for the Non O based on Marriage visa.

[kriswillems]

In my opinion Thailand just wants to kick as many foreigners out as they can, starting with the people of which they can't get much money. The fact that young families are being broken-up is none of their worries. Their reasoning is easy: attract old farangs that don't take any Thai job, squeeze the money out of them until they die and send all the others out, totally ignoring any family ties or any respect for human life.

I think these 2 facts prove my point:

For retired single people Thailand has more flexible visa rules than any western country (1 year extention based on 800K on bank account, income not important).

For young married people Thailand has more hard visa rules than any western country (For getting a 1 year extention your bank account is irrelevant, even 3 million won't help you. Your income should be 3 times higher than average and at the same time they make it very hard for you to get a work permit).

Making it more difficult to obtain a multiple-non-immigrant-O visa in signapore is just one more step getting closer towards their goal.

[Guts]

For young married people Thailand has more hard visa rules than any western country (For getting a 1 year extention your bank account is irrelevant, even 3 million won't help you. Your income should be 3 times higher than average and at the same time they make it very hard for you to get a work permit).

Married foreigners need to show 400.000 Baht once a year to get a 1 year extension Non O. That is 33,333 Baht per month ($980). No further question asked and you can live worryfree in Thailand and having fun the whole year. If you dont wanna show up on your 90 day report, just sent a letter to immigration. If you are too lazy to get out of your chair to post the letter, let fedex pick it up at your home.

Sounds rather easy to me, especially in comparison with immigration policies in EU and US.

Just my thoughts

[kriswillems]

Sounds rather easy to me, especially in comparison with immigration policies in EU and US.

The immigration policies for married people in the EU are 1 million times better than the rules for farang in Thailand.

My wife immediately got permanent residence in the EU. She doesn't need a visa. She never needed any work permit to work here and she can but land just like I can. She got free education, healthcare and wellfare. She now even has my nationality and can vote here.

The 400K for the one year extention is only valid for people that have used this rules before october 2006, the others need to prove a family income of 40K (3 times higher than average Thai income) and at the same time they are given a hard time to obtain a work permit.

Edited January 25, 2007 by kriswillems

[Austhaied]

This is my experience with the embassy in Singapore, were I got my mutiple entry Non-im "O" Jan. 11th.

I showed up outside the Thai embassy 30 min. before opening time and was #5 in line. Got the application form from the security guy while i was waiting.

Inside the embassy I was waiting for about 5 min. I gave them these copies: copy of my passport, copy of my wife's passport, copy of birth certificate, copy of marriage certificate and 1 pass photo along with the application form. That was all they needed. (I'm younger than 50).

Went back to the embassy the day after at 2 o'clock. Waited 5-10 min in line to collect my passport. No fee for the visa. So everything went very smooth and quick.

Not a too expensive trip eather. Roundtrip BKK - Singapore with Airasia cost me 4450 bath.

Have a nice trip to Singapore!

I had the same experience in June last year, went very smoothly, and no-one asked me for any financial info...I did have it on me just in case though..There was a fee of around $220 Sing or there abouts..

Edited January 25, 2007 by Austhaied

[Sophon]

Sounds rather easy to me, especially in comparison with immigration policies in EU and US.

The immigration policies for married people in the EU are 1 million times better than the rules for farang in Thailand.

Your post seems to indicate that the immigration policies across the EU are uniform. That is not the case, each country have their own rules and they can vary significantly. You should refer to the specific country instead of "the EU".

Sophon

[sh-dyrne]

Quoted:

"No fee for the visa, this seems very strange. Also was it a 1 year Non-Im O ?"

Surely it is a 1 year visa since it is multiple entries. But free, no that can't be possible. A visa like that is gonna cost you 5000 Baht.

//Lopburi

I thought there was a fee too, but surprisingly the lady did not ask for a fee, that's for sure. I didn't ask more about it eather, free is ok for me

But are we talking about the same Visa? I have a 1 year multy-entry non "O" visa, but I still have to do these visa runs every 90 days (because i can't show that me or my wife together pay taxes for at least 40k).

Edited January 26, 2007 by sh-dyrne

[brianb1944]

Thanks for the update, wassa69.

Recent reports also tells us that the Royal Thai Consulates in Adelaide and Brisbane, Australia, issue Multiple entry visas while you wait, and no bank requirements.

Brianb1944 Perth Consul also does Multiple entry with no finance requirement and a 2 day turnaround. Very obliging Kiwi lady in there.

[Bruce1]

Yes we got our multiple entry in Brisbane 18 months ago with just a fee and no bank requirements, but I'm not sure if that has since changed. They were VERY helpful and fast in Brissie, only took us 20 minutes.

[LPCustom69]

Without question, the system sucks. Part of my consulting is envisioning worst case scenarios, and I feel that we are headed that way. Those in charge really don't want very many westerners here. They would prefer that we were Chinese, or just come for 30-60 days and spend 200K baht (or more). Or take our families to our home countries, knowing that money will still be sent back. Expect things to get worse before the situation improves, if it does. In their minds, we can go "home" and work, and just send the money to the loved ones. Then, we can come for a short visit, no problem. Expect them to try and close the support visas in this way. They will probably raise the amount of baht required to be here, and not grandfather those in under a previous ruling or amount, which they have basically always done. That way, they feel that they can weed out the "undesirables". Worst case scenario, yeah, but the writings on the wall. They have already shown they can change laws at the drop of a hat, and consequences be damned. After all, TIT.

In other words, you cannot have a family in Thailand if you are not in a certain living standard set by the Thai immigration. OR even if you have a family, when you lose your job or earning less, get out of Thailand!

I have money and everything now but what if one day when it is a little rather "just enough" situation arise? This is really a harsh rule.

I think it is correct to say "Nothing really new!" here. (Nothing really surprising)

Yes, it is "harsh" if you don't meet the financial requirements. And it is worrying for almost everybody else with family here.

But foreigners married to nationals never ever had it easy in Thailand!

(Amusing really how some apparent newbies here think "It will be a breeze"................ Kindly, BTW)

You "show money" (now salary) every year to be granted a temporary 1 year "extension" of stay, you report every 90 days like a convict on parole, you can't own your house or a land, you can't work (on the basis of marriage)........ OK enough. Compare this situation with Europe where foreigners married to nationals get an ID card and the right work after 1 year!

(We all know that. I could not resist the urge to write it again for the many newbies who popped up here in just a few hours!)

1) For years (decades), people who did not qualify financially for annual extensions of stay used and abused multiple entry visas.

In the eyes of Thai Immigration, permanent stay on multiple entry was always -and still is- ABUSE of the system.

(BTW I do not judge. Surely not. I am one of the many unlucky permanent "de facto" residents who basically do not have any other option to stay in Thailand than multiple entry visas. Not because I do not meet their financial requirements. Because they do not want to know about my financial means! I am below 50 and they decided I do not qualify to support my Thai child).

2) Actually, with this new requirement (400,000 baht savings for Multiple NON-O) it seems like they keep tolerating and even kind of acknowledge the abuse and still leave some doors open.

Typically Thai.

The more I read about it, the more I see this whole "visa-shake" issue as a "FLOOD CONTROL" issue.

You can not understand it better than as a mere FLOOD CONTROL issue :-(

Truly, I think fairness was never high in any agenda here. Nowhere. And definitely not in the Immigration regulations!

I say it will all the sadness of the world. (The future of my daughter -and our future together- is at stake).

---

BOTTOM LINE:

At this point, I'm honestly curious to see what they will do with all the "family cases" who are filtered out of the system.

Either because they do not meet financial requirements (40,000/month for annual extension and now, 400,000 savings for multiple entry visa) or because they are deemed to young to be recognized as parents! (if below 50)

I MEAN PRACTICALLY. Will they really refuse entry, separate families, let children drop out of schools and even create semi-orphan children etc. (cases where the solo farang father is in charge)??? What will they do???

Surely not everybody will decide to go home. Despite all the obvious pressure/clear invitation!

(And not everybody is able -financially or even legally- to bring his family to his home country).

[WapiJohn]

Thanks for the update, wassa69.

Recent reports also tells us that the Royal Thai Consulates in Adelaide and Brisbane, Australia, issue Multiple entry visas while you wait, and no bank requirements.

Due to family problems in the UK I do not want to return there to renew my Non O Multi entry visa. I have a Thai wife and British born Daughter, but I lack the required funds.

Can a British citizen ( UK Passport ) apply for a visa at the Thai consulate in Brisbane, I have family in Brisbane.

[BigSnake]

Lucky you> for all

[wilko]

It has been done but whether it is still done.....contact the consul in Brizzie before you go!

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Absolutely correct seadoo,the legendary Thun William Dunn, who, I'm extremely privileged to have as a personal friend will be always at your service with any info regarding anything to do with his adopted Thailand,any Aussie on the East Coast of OZ. would be well advised to get in touch with any Visa Query,infact any Query about the L. O. S . Tip--( Have a couple of jokes to tell, That's usually worth a little more info.) His email is, [email protected]

He has a new email addy now :- [email protected] All other contact details are the same.

[WapiJohn]

Lucky you> for all

There's always one !

[papakapbaan]

Hopefully the OP is still around...

Practical question: did they want to see a copy of wife's ID card in Singapore?

I can show:

-My daughter's Thai Birth Certificate with my name on it.

-My Belgian Marriage Certificate (Wife NOT the mother)

-My Thai bank passbook with regular money transfers received from Belgium.

(Balance above THB 400,000)

If they don't need to see wife's ID (I do not have it), then I may just use marriage certificate and bank passbook.

Since it's more important to be married on paper than to actually support your children.

BTW you can't support your children anymore anyway. Not a valid reason to be in Thailand if you're below 50 (I can't resist. I have to rant :-0)

Thanks!

[wazza69]

Hopefully the OP is still around...

Practical question: did they want to see a copy of wife's ID card in Singapore?

I can show:

-My daughter's Thai Birth Certificate with my name on it.

-My Belgian Marriage Certificate (Wife NOT the mother)

-My Thai bank passbook with regular money transfers received from Belgium.

(Balance above THB 400,000)

If they don't need to see wife's ID (I do not have it), then I may just use marriage certificate and bank passbook.

Since it's more important to be married on paper than to actually support your children.

BTW you can't support your children anymore anyway. Not a valid reason to be in Thailand if you're below 50 (I can't resist. I have to rant :-0)

Thanks!

Hi!

This is the email I received from the Thai consulate in Singapore:

Dear Sir,

In order to apply for the non -Immigrant visa, we need you to get us a photocopy of your

marriage cert,house registration photocopy, your bank book or a copy of it under your

name which need to have at least 400 thousand bahts, one passport size photo, and

one visa form to be fillup at the visa counter, charges in singapore dollars $220/-.(mult-

entry visa for a period of 1 year) each stays only allowed for a period of 3 months only.

Submission hours are only from Monday to Friday from 9.15am to 12.15noon, and it takes

2 working days to process for the visa, collection will be from 2.00pm to 4.30pm only.

Need any further information kindly contact me at tel : 67372644 ext 3.

Best regards

Shima

I did take a copy of my wifes ID card, signed by her (which they took), but it was not mentioned in the email. I was told by the staff there at the time that the money could be shown in any current bank account (not necessarily a Thai account), but they did seem a little unsure about this. I would assume having a Thai account would be preferable.

I doubt there have been any further changes since then, but to make sure you might want to give the lovely Shima a call.

Hope this helps,

Wazza69

[Bruce1]

each stays only allowed for a period of 3 months only.

I wonder is that a reference to the normal 90 day reporting, for which you don't have to leave the country, or is it a reference to the 90 day max stay under tourist visas, in which case this advice might be wrong for a non immigrant visa?

No idea myself, just curious.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Hopefully the OP is still around...

Practical question: did they want to see a copy of wife's ID card in Singapore?

I can show:

-My daughter's Thai Birth Certificate with my name on it.

-My Belgian Marriage Certificate (Wife NOT the mother)

-My Thai bank passbook with regular money transfers received from Belgium.

(Balance above THB 400,000)

If they don't need to see wife's ID (I do not have it), then I may just use marriage certificate and bank passbook.

Since it's more important to be married on paper than to actually support your children.

BTW you can't support your children anymore anyway. Not a valid reason to be in Thailand if you're below 50 (I can't resist. I have to rant :-0)

Thanks!

Your rant days are numbered papa. Try to UNDERSTAND you do NOT comply. You fiddled when you could have got the visa. Your rants are too much, and you have been granted too many last chances.