Let’s fight corruption through ‘ZERO TOLERANCE’

[webfact]

OPINION

Let’s fight corruption through ‘ZERO TOLERANCE’

By The Nation

 

‘Lenient’ justice system stems from a ‘forgiving’ society

 

Some time back, two experimental signs were placed at a national park in Arizona asking people not to steal by taking home wood from the forest. At one entrance, a sign showed three “thieves” with an X over them. At another entrance, the sign showed just one thief, again with an X.

 

What happened was very interesting.

 

The second sign was more effective in reducing theft. Why? According to psychologists, if we emphasise how common a crime is, it conveys a subtle, but very significant, message that many others are doing the same thing.

 

Corruption has many levels, but everyone knows that it’s the “small” ones that sow the seeds for big graft that eats into everything – corporations, government agencies and the whole society. There is no way to fight the “big ones” without eradicating their mini counterparts.

 

One of the biggest cases at the moment involves an ultra-rich businessman who allegedly was involved in illegal hunting in a reserved forest area and tried to bribe park officials who found out about the alleged violations. Bribery is one of the charges he is facing. It is a big accusation, but it is also hard to prove.

 

As a high-profile case, it captivated society and his alleged attempt to bribe added fuel to the public outcry. But if the suspect did try to bribe park officials, what is the difference between him and, say, commuters trying to offer something to traffic police in order not to get a ticket? What makes him different from foreign companies trying to bribe their way into lucrative concessions?

 

There are laws against bribery, of course, but making people feel that violations of those laws are frequent, common or widespread makes those very laws less likely to be followed strictly. The same goes for social tolerance. If people know that they can pay off traffic police and their friends will not even frown at it, they will continue to do so. Those around them will be encouraged to do the same.

 

It is, therefore, imperative that the “warning sign” points to just one bribe giver. Society must recognise that the involvement of even one person can undermine the whole anti-corruption principle. Which is why sending a proper message is important. On the one hand, we need to discourage bribery entirely. On the other hand, saying bribery is rampant can create a forgiving society when it comes to small fish.

 

Zero tolerance is the way to go when it comes to corruption. It’s even more important in relation to politics, as we all know what corruption cases can lead to. They can snowball into detrimental nepotism, outcries of double standards and even ideological showdowns. To stand any chance of fighting corruption in Thailand, we need strict standards that are applied equally to everybody.

 

Another reason why zero tolerance must be adopted is that many corruption cases are hard to prove in court. If society adopts the zero-tolerance standard, it will deter potential wrongdoers. Deterrence is necessary because legal punishment alone is not enough and, as things stand, is very hard to come by.

 

Looking at the matter at hand, a society with zero tolerance for corruption would not have to worry about whether influential persons are accused of illegal hunting and bribery would be helped by a “lenient” justice system. In a zero-tolerance society, it’s very unlikely that such offences would happen in the first place, let alone the leniency.

 

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/detail/opinion/30341212

 

-- © Copyright The Nation 2018-03-19

[Samui Bodoh]

The editorial above is correct, if not a bit simplistic.

 

However, in a society where the leadership comes to power through coups and once there disregards even the already shambolic laws available, why would anyone expect the society NOT to be corrupt?

 

As long as General Rolex retains his position with the blessing of General Coup, nothing will change.

 

Leadership, and thus change, is setting examples as well as talking.

 

 

Edited March 18, 2018 by Samui Bodoh
Lack of coffee

[YetAnother]

29 minutes ago, Samui Bodoh said:

However, in a society where the leadership comes to power through coups and once there disregards even the already shambolic laws available, why would anyone expect the society NOT to be corrupt?

yes and minimize not the common techniques of inrushing governments on the defensive (self immunity) and offensive fronts ( S44) and ongoing fronts (new charters, governments, 20 year plans) 

[Cadbury]

1 hour ago, webfact said:

‘Lenient’ justice system stems from a ‘forgiving’ society

True but I think it would also be fair to say:

  Lenient justice system stems from a generous and giving upper class elite society.

Edited March 18, 2018 by Cadbury

[nausea]

Too many Thai people with a skin in the game.

[PatOngo]

There they go, relieving themselves into the wind again!

[car720]

When all pollies everywhere are not paid the ridiculous amounts of money that they are then they will not do all sorts of skullduggery to get into office and stay there.  Revenue is their sole aim regardless of the suffering of their people.  I know it is naive but they are supposed to be servants of the people,, not self serving.  It is a tired old doggerel but 666 is the number of the beast.

[pearciderman]

2 hours ago, webfact said:

Some time back, two experimental signs were placed at a national park in Arizona asking people not to steal by taking home wood from the forest. At one entrance, a sign showed three “thieves” with an X over them. At another entrance, the sign showed just one thief, again with an X.

 

Why have you not cited your source? Why have you missed out the word "petrified"?

 

https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/sites/gsb/files/2008August.pdf      Page 21 is where you got your info.

 

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/228908090_Activating_and_Aligning_Social_Norms_for_Persuasive_Impact

 

This is the abstract for the actual research.

[rkidlad]

Again, what’s the Thai definition of ‘corruptuon’? It would be so easy to teach people how corruption is rotten. You could teach it at school from an early age. Only problem you have then is students pointing at the principal’s new European car that’s parked in a spot that inconveniences everyone else but the principal, and then asking, “corruption?”

[mikebell]

2 hours ago, webfact said:

Bribery is one of the charges he is facing. It is a big accusation, but it is also hard to prove.

It is difficult to prove when the police 'lose' an incriminating tape.  To fight corruption a small step would be to disband the entire Thai police force; policing for many is a merely a sideline.

[RichardColeman]

2 hours ago, webfact said:

Another reason why zero tolerance must be adopted is that many corruption cases are hard to prove in court.

Probably as those judge and jury are corrupted already - along with both prosecution and defense. The guy in trial is probably the least corrupted in the room ! 

[leeneeds]

So how many of us would pay the smaller amount of cash to the policeman, and be on our way , or go through the hassle of going to the police station, and real possibility of the fine being doubled, trying to argue your point, 

 

Corruption has many forms!

[JOC]

What corruption...?

The most common Thai animal: The elephant in the room...

[Lupatria]

Reads like the contingent of 'inactive posts' is close to depletion.

[seajae]

while some will use this as a way to attack just one govt they really need to attack all govts as they are all guilty. Corruption and bribes have been part of all govts for many years, the individual departments inside govt continue with their corruption through each successive govt no matter who it is, what doesnt help is that the govt members themselves are all guilty of it as well. Thais climb over each other to get into a govt job because they know they can make a lot more money with bribes, all promotions are a money spinner for those that appoint the promotions, any possible action that needs to be done by individuals or companies is another money raiser as is any possible breaking of the law. When companies have to pay the police to allow them to have their trucks drive on the road with loads or be continually harassed by them, when customs agents demand a percentage of the companies profits each month or they will not allow their goods to leave port, when companies have to pay any govt office for anything that their company needs to do to even be able to survive but have all the required licenses/legal right to do so without  having to pay these bribes it is a worry and will not stop because too many people higher up are getting their commissions on all of it, corruption is embedded in thai society and govt

[worgeordie]

In some parts of the UK ,they would have stolen the signs too.

its just some people cannot help themselves,born thieves.

 

The whole World seems corrupt,the rich always want to get richer,

the poor in society are just lucky if they get by,day to day.

regards Worgeordie

[tigermoth]

Corruption exists in every country to some degree. There will always be a way of obtaining a license or permit for something without going through official channels and this will always exist. Corruption which causes hardship and tragedy to a fellow citizen is an entirely different catagory which is a definite no no and must be answered by the severest penalties. This is where the recent exposure of the civic authorities taking the aged and disabled pensions etc., must be answered by severe and harsh penalties.

[toybits]

The Watchman General, The Redbull Heir, Highflying Monks, The controversial Temple with golden dome, the Tiger Temple, Klongdan waste treatment facility, the controversial park with overpriced statues, Yellow submarines, etc. Need I say more?

 

[Ossy]

4 hours ago, webfact said:

If society adopts the zero-tolerance standard, . . .

If pigs could fly would be a more likely scenario. Where and how does the writer hope that Zero Tolerance will be first applied? . . . by the traffic cop, still tempted to take the 'quick cash' route; the Royal Thai Navy chief who is weighing up options for getting his next subs, either from China or US, or the local Tambon official who is preparing papers for the destitute to get their financial help. It's gonna take a lot more than Prayuth's TV monologues to persuade people to change their ways.

 

And, if as you say, many corruption cases are difficult to prove in court, how can you set-up an effective deterrent?

[pearciderman]

36 minutes ago, tigermoth said:

This is where the recent exposure of the civic authorities taking the aged and disabled pensions

 

I don't think it was pensions that were being taken, it was cash to be used to alleviate hardships.

[Lemonltr]

Premchai apparently attempted to bribe. But the Nation goes on to say. " What makes him different from FOREIGN companies ( not Thai of course) trying to bribe their way into lucrative concessions"

What if the dialogue goes like this-  "You can increase the price by 20% but you must pay that back to us in the way we designate. If you do not then you do not have a cat in Hell's chance of getting the contract"

Is that bribery by the company or something else?

 

[baboon]

4 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

The editorial above is correct, if not a bit simplistic.

 

However, in a society where the leadership comes to power through coups and once there disregards even the already shambolic laws available, why would anyone expect the society NOT to be corrupt?

 

As long as General Rolex retains his position with the blessing of General Coup, nothing will change.

 

Leadership, and thus change, is setting examples as well as talking.

 

 

"However, in a society where the leadership comes to power through coups and once there disregards even the already shambolic laws available"

 

But it is worse than that, isn't it? A society where the leadership comes to power through coups and once there ignore the laws and the constitution they bloody well wrote themselves! I mean, that's just mental.

 

However corruption is a blight on any society. Let's get serious here. At least now we have a group of multimillionaire Asian generals with fine, fine combovers actually speaking out against it and being photographed looking frightfully important and meaningful. The fight is surely halfway won with them standing bravely at the helm...

Edited March 19, 2018 by baboon

[AlphaSoiDog]

2 hours ago, pearciderman said:

 

Why have you not cited your source? Why have you missed out the word "petrified"?

 

https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/sites/gsb/files/2008August.pdf      Page 21 is where you got your info.

 

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/228908090_Activating_and_Aligning_Social_Norms_for_Persuasive_Impact

 

This is the abstract for the actual research.

Well done on the reference. I thought the original poster did well to remember it at all given how poor human memory is. But excellent to see the somewhat more involved source.

 

The first reference (page 21) is about corruption and effects on efficiency, so not about the (petrified) wood theft. The second is the one to look at. Long and in well educated academic speak, and worth looking at even if not your forte.

 

Notable was that when given the clear results the park refused to change their signs as they preferred to believe their rangers subjective opinions from interviewing visitors. Rather than believe a properly done study showing the opposite.

 

So when given clear evidence on how to improve a situation the people who could have taken action chose to do nothing (humans dislike change). Does that sound familiar?

 

 

 

 

[pearciderman]

7 minutes ago, AlphaSoiDog said:

The first reference (page 21) is about corruption and effects on efficiency, so not about the (petrified) wood theft.

 

This is a quote from page 21 " In an experiment in Petrified Forest National Park in Arizona, Cialdini placed signs at entrances asking people not to take home petrified wood. The sign at one entrance showed three thieves with an X over them, while at another entrance, the sign depicted just one thief. The latter was far more effective at reducing theft."

 

So it is about the theft of petrified wood.

 

:-)

[Thian]

4 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

The editorial above is correct, if not a bit simplistic.

 

However, in a society where the leadership comes to power through coups and once there disregards even the already shambolic laws available, why would anyone expect the society NOT to be corrupt?

 

As long as General Rolex retains his position with the blessing of General Coup, nothing will change.

 

Leadership, and thus change, is setting examples as well as talking.

 

 

Since we have the watch-scandal the highest general stopped doing crackdowns and other big plans/actions to improve the country.

 

It's very sad, i think he's too ashamed to make any new plans since that came in the news.

[baboon]

1 minute ago, Thian said:

Since we have the watch-scandal the highest general stopped doing crackdowns and other big plans/actions to improve the country.

 

It's very sad, i think he's too ashamed to make any new plans since that came in the news.

I am afraid I can't agree with your last sentence. Wealth and gold braid know no shame.

[Eric Loh]

Worthwhile to look at Singapore's zero tolerance framework and see where Thailand failed and where it needs reform. 

 

The framework is based on:-

1. Effective laws (maybe Thailand has but lacking enforcement)

2. Independent judiciary (serious deficit in Thailand)

3. Effective enforcement (selective here)

4. Responsive public service (acceptance of corruption is shocking)

 

The framework rest on a "Strong political will". Never had and never will happen when the elites and the military thrive in a corrupt system milking the country.

 

It will take a strong paradigm shift with a like minded single vision leader and decades to rid corruption to a level like Singapore. Mind you, leaders of Singapore still say that corruption zero tolerance is a work in progress. 

[kannot]

Huh!!  really?? sure???? ok, well your going to have to start with the very people you cannot  mention and work your way down.

[kannot]

13 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

Worthwhile to look at Singapore's zero tolerance framework and see where Thailand failed and where it needs reform. 

 

The framework is based on:-

1. Effective laws (maybe Thailand has but lacking enforcement)

2. Independent judiciary (serious deficit in Thailand)

3. Effective enforcement (selective here)

4. Responsive public service (acceptance of corruption is shocking)

 

The framework rest on a "Strong political will". Never had and never will happen when the elites and the military thrive in a corrupt system milking the country.

 

It will take a strong paradigm shift with a like minded single vision leader and decades to rid corruption to a level like Singapore. Mind you, leaders of Singapore still say that corruption zero tolerance is a work in progress. 

The acceptance is not shocking its based on 100% FEAR of what happens after you show someone is  involved in corruption.

[natway09]

Alleviate corruption completely in Thailand.

The problem is I wouldn't get anything done