At least 16 killed and many injured in Korat road accident

[owl sees all]

1 hour ago, Daveyh said:

<snip>

Lorries seem to understand the problems that exist & I've found them to be really cautious, in low gear, giving way to traffic etc etc ..... & very polite .

However, Buses, especially the tourist type with "double decker" design seem to be always in a hurry, impatient & drive too fast! Police in this area are vigilant as there are check points & police boxes in the area clearly visible, but I don't think they have CCTV in the "mountain pass" to assist them, which in my option is paramount & should be installed asap & manned 24/7. Also, not enough control is enforced in this area with regards to speeding. It's a really hazardous area & the tour buses should be targetted travelling through this pass as they are the main offenders ...... police should stop them, check their documents, give them a warning about speeding etc ...... after all they have 60+ souls on board that are trusting the driver with their lives. The buses should be "governed" to limit their speed as relying on the driver is not an option here. In my opinion, I don't think these buses meet "european safety standards" as they don't appear to sit the road well, especially at speed. Perhaps the suspension is softened to give a smoother ride, but I think these vehicles visibly struggle when changing direction & become unstable. Any views on this anyone???

 <snip>

Safe driving; taking into consideration the conditions, the environment, circumstances and within the constraints of the vehicle.

 

The skill, experience and carefulness of the driver is also a factor. Not driving under the influence of drugs, alcohol or tireness is also important and an understanding of how others behave on the road can be helpful.

 

The poor build quality is brought into the equasion. But usually only after an incident.

 

Simply too much for the Thai authorities to get their heads around. Next!!

 

Take care out there fellow TVForum road users; 'cause the Thais do not.

[kannot]

5 minutes ago, kaorop said:

look up a video of steven fry on his thoughts about a gawd. very well put and its hard to believe that so many believe, frightening actually

You are speaking to someone who had common sense at birth,saw straight thru the hypocritical nonsense of ALL religions, Fry, Hitchens, Harris Dawkins, when Im dead  Ill leave em all my cash to use for EDUCATION of the masses in reason, Dawkins foundation for reason and science. Off  topic  probably get removed but at the base of a lot of nonsense in Thailand is the ugly   truth of religion, belief in an afterlife so death doesnt matter.

[kannot]

8 minutes ago, Airbagwill said:

I just noticed this piece of nonsense too.....I get the feeling you really haven't thought this through.

you seem to think that alll crashes (not acidents) are the same - the bends are te same and the results of speeds (how do you know t speed?) are the same, all hills are th same gradient etc etc.

however the main thing you overlook is that the design and construction of a vehicle is crucial to the mitigation of death or injury caused in a crash, regardless of speed vehicle and incline.....

Actually the speeds  on many Thai roads are painfully  low, probably in the vain hope of lowering their 1st place in the world, speed  seems to be  many authorities "answer" to this , I beg to differ.

[Lemonltr]

1 hour ago, Daveyh said:

It's always the buses that seem to have these problems. On this Kabinburi road it is particulary steep & I've travelled it many times & it's a place that's very dangerous. The road is quite narrow, safe overtaking is limited, with "run off points" in places for heavy goods vehicles in an emergency. Lorries seem to understand the problems that exist & I've found them to be really cautious, in low gear, giving way to traffic etc etc ..... & very polite .

However, Buses, especially the tourist type with "double decker" design seem to be always in a hurry, impatient & drive too fast! Police in this area are vigilant as there are check points & police boxes in the area clearly visible, but I don't think they have CCTV in the "mountain pass" to assist them, which in my option is paramount & should be installed asap & manned 24/7. Also, not enough control is enforced in this area with regards to speeding. It's a really hazardous area & the tour buses should be targetted travelling through this pass as they are the main offenders ...... police should stop them, check their documents, give them a warning about speeding etc ...... after all they have 60+ souls on board that are trusting the driver with their lives. The buses should be "governed" to limit their speed as relying on the driver is not an option here. In my opinion, I don't think these buses meet "european safety standards" as they don't appear to sit the road well, especially at speed. Perhaps the suspension is softened to give a smoother ride, but I think these vehicles visibly struggle when changing direction & become unstable. Any views on this anyone??? ...... I think slowing these buses down would be a great start to saving lives by "governing" the engines with an Thai Govt official tamperproof seal to stop meddling!  Please Thailand ................. you need to do this immediately & stop this carnage ............ punitive action is required. Loss of licence, even confiscation of vehicle, heavy fines & jail terms must be introduced ... you've gotta face it Thailand & get tough now with everyone.

Sorry daveyh but you are commenting on the wrong side of the mountain. The yet not dualed section with 'run off points' you refer to is on the South side  I seems clear that the bus was going downhill after leaving Wang Namkeao on the North side. Last week I saw that the progress of dualling the Kabinburi side was painfully slow. It looks like it will take a couple of more years. At best!!

[Bangkok Barry]

28 minutes ago, kaorop said:

not to mention the incredibly dangerous road conditions if it rains where there is a lot of dropped and crushed cane. its like ice to a thin worn mocy tyre..or any bike for that matter.

 

you ought see around the factories. the one south of wangsaphung trucks everywhere and the road leading to it from the south is a winding single lane road so there are multiple traffic jams with high risk passing the norm.

 

and the amount of cane on the roads is rediculous...the company a huge exporter is suposed to maintain the roads in that area...lol

 

I know. Hundreds of them pass my house. Once or twice each 'season' I'll see a small pickup with two chaps collecting the dropped material. It actually needs to be done every day but like most things in Thailand only a token gesture is made.

[Airbagwill]

4 minutes ago, kannot said:

Actually the speeds  on many Thai roads are painfully  low, probably in the vain hope of lowering their 1st place in the world, speed  seems to be  many authorities "answer" to this , I beg to differ.

sorry I don't understand, what point are you making?

[midas]

6 hours ago, bluesofa said:

I know there has been a loss of life here, and that is genuinely sad.

 

However, I’m waiting for the all-too-often-made calls to begin about banning double-decker buses as they’re dangerous.

I’ll get in first: If only they would think, and look at accident rates involving double-decker buses in other countries. I’m sure it must be the UK where there are more (and taller) double-decker buses than anywhere else, yet accidents there are very, very, rare.

 

It’s the drivers here that need banning. They need to be responsible and concentrate on their driving, not trying to get down hills with sharp bends at break-neck speed (no pun intended), or perform dangerous overtaking manoeuvres.

 

As soon as this particular incident is out the news, it will be forgotten again until the next accident.

 

 

" However, I’m waiting for the all-too-often-made calls to begin about banning double-decker buses as they’re dangerous."

 

And I wonder if that has anything to do with the fact that some of these buses are not fit to be on the road?

 

False ‘Scania’ bus in yet another deadly Thailand traffic accident

 

Quote

“The local modified chassis is the chassis that built up by used parts or the second hand parts from any second hand store and stick them together into chassis (Reference in a TV variety ‘Kob nork ka la’ chapter ‘how it turns into a coach’. This means that local, modified chassis can be built using different parts of brands and cover with the body that also could be painted into any brand.”

 

https://scandasia.com/false-scania-bus-in-yet-another-deadly-thailand-traffic-accident/

[Airbagwill]

9 minutes ago, kannot said:

You are speaking to someone who had common sense at birth,saw straight thru the hypocritical nonsense of ALL religions, Fry, Hitchens, Harris Dawkins, when Im dead  Ill leave em all my cash to use for EDUCATION of the masses in reason, Dawkins foundation for reason and science. Off  topic  probably get removed but at the base of a lot of nonsense in Thailand is the ugly   truth of religion, belief in an afterlife so death doesnt matter.

Ifyou read any of "Fry, Hitchens, Harris Dawkins," you will soon find out they all believe that "common sense" doesn't exist, only reason.

[Airbagwill]

11 minutes ago, owl sees all said:

Safe driving; taking into consideration the conditions, the environment, circumstances and within the constraints of the vehicle.

 

The skill, experience and carefulness of the driver is also a factor. Not driving under the influence of drugs, alcohol or tireness is also important and an understanding of how others behave on the road can be helpful.

 

The poor build quality is brought into the equasion. But usually only after an incident.

 

Simply too much for the Thai authorities to get their heads around. Next!!

 

Take care out there fellow TVForum road users; 'cause the Thais do not.

You are confusing your western concept of "driving" with road safety which is a much broader concept, involving eduction, road and vehicle design, enforcement, study of crashes and medical and first responder services and the role of police.

[0815]

6 hours ago, bluesofa said:

I know there has been a loss of life here, and that is genuinely sad.

 

However, I’m waiting for the all-too-often-made calls to begin about banning double-decker buses as they’re dangerous.

I’ll get in first: If only they would think, and look at accident rates involving double-decker buses in other countries. I’m sure it must be the UK where there are more (and taller) double-decker buses than anywhere else, yet accidents there are very, very, rare.

 

It’s the drivers here that need banning. They need to be responsible and concentrate on their driving, not trying to get down hills with sharp bends at break-neck speed (no pun intended), or perform dangerous overtaking manoeuvres.

 

As soon as this particular incident is out the news, it will be forgotten again until the next accident.

 

Brakes failed again! Clear reason...

[Airbagwill]

Just now, 0815 said:

Brakes failed again! Clear reason...

why do people who don't like something always start yelling "ban it!"?

 

th truth is we need public transport on roads and statistically it is WAY< WAY safer than private passenger vehicles.

What is needed is regulation to improve the safety of these vehicles, construction, drivers hours etc etc - put a digital tacho in and test all the4 vehicles.

[0815]

6 hours ago, Lungstib said:

Are Thai buses and trucks made to good standards of safety? Several after accident scenes show awful damage and scattered vehicle parts. They do seem to break apart rather easy.

What safety standards?
Some square pipes, a lot glass and fiberglass glued together by innocent "mechanics"...
Ohhh! And cool airbrush-design to cover it !!

[owl sees all]

6 minutes ago, Airbagwill said:

You are confusing your western concept of "driving" with road safety which is a much broader concept, involving eduction, road and vehicle design, enforcement, study of crashes and medical and first responder services and the role of police.

I'm not confusing anything. Just pointing out that good, safe driving requires more than the average Thai envisages or comprehends.

Edited March 22, 2018 by owl sees all

[0815]

4 minutes ago, Airbagwill said:

why do people who don't like something always start yelling "ban it!"?

 

th truth is we need public transport on roads and statistically it is WAY< WAY safer than private passenger vehicles.

What is needed is regulation to improve the safety of these vehicles, construction, drivers hours etc etc - put a digital tacho in and test all the4 vehicles.

You may be right, but as long as they can buy the safety tests...

[DM07]

53 minutes ago, whaleboneman said:

Do you have any lynching links? I'd be interested in reading about any.

Lynching or being beaten to death in an act of self- justice...pretty much the same, isn't it?

Why the interest in the specifics?

(Not that I don't have an idea about your motives, but...)

[Peterphuket]

If I have to brake, most of the time I downshift on the engine, Thai people has never heard of it.

It is one of the many examples that they have never learned before.

 

But then if you come as a foreigner to renew your driving license, they are then of opinion that they can teach you how to drive.

OMG

[Artisi]

3 hours ago, flyingdoc said:

RIP all the dead, and hope for those who survived.  It is not the construction of the buses, but the lack of capability of the drivers in almost all incidents like this, but when will this issue be tackled sensibly?

how long is a piece of string?

[bluesofa]

1 hour ago, kannot said:

Why do my hosts always use a calculator?

I saw a cashier using a calculator to work out 1,000 - 100.

 

When I go to our local shop to buy 3 bottles of beer at 60 Baht each, I give the owner 200 Baht and tell her I want 20 Baht change. She uses the calculator, then looks amazed I could work it out in my head...

 

[Airbagwill]

51 minutes ago, 0815 said:

You may be right, but as long as they can buy the safety tests...

you mean as long as they can buy the buses?

There is a process here.

Firstly identify the problem correctly. ... most on this thread hae not done that.

Then take action... few on this thread can do anything about that....BUT ........... I can point out the problem and maybe or maybe not some action will take place, however it isn't in my hands but it doesn't negate my points.To throw ones hands in the air and say "nothing can be done" - does not negate any argument about road safety, it is up to the Thai authorities whether or not they do anything.

How to solve that problem is a different argument altogether.

 

[Henrik Andersen]

Start put speed limit control on all busses 

RIP to all and recover well to the rest 

[Airbagwill]

26 minutes ago, Peterphuket said:

If I have to brake, most of the time I downshift on the engine, Thai people has never heard of it.

It is one of the many examples that they have never learned before.

 

But then if you come as a foreigner to renew your driving license, they are then of opinion that they can teach you how to drive.

OMG

you obviously don't drive an automatic.

 

[Airbagwill]

vehicles.

however you make the assumption that speeding was the only factor in this crash?

[Peterphuket]

1 minute ago, Airbagwill said:

you obviously don't drive an automatic.

 

Believe me, I DO, a Fortuner 3.D, but even in that case it is easy to do.

[Airbagwill]

2 minutes ago, Peterphuket said:

Believe me, I DO, a Fortuner 3.D, but even in that case it is easy to do.

You're new to automatic then.

people with autos put their cars in D and stay there - if you aren't aware how others drive on Thai roads, I'd say you should take time out and learn a bit.

 

Also on standard auto g/boxes using the drive shift to chanfge down is not a good idea. If it has a "manual" or flippper override, then it's not a problem - ask you dealer about that.

[Peterphuket]

3 minutes ago, Airbagwill said:

You're new to automatic then.

people with autos put their cars in D and stay there - if you aren't aware how others drive on Thai roads, I'd say you should take time out and learn a bit.

 

Also on standard auto g/boxes using the drive shift to chanfge down is not a good idea. If it has a "manual" or flippper override, then it's not a problem - ask you dealer about that.

Listen I'm 70 years old, drive from the time when I was 18, the last 30 years automatic, do I something wrong......??

[webfact]

Brake failure blamed for fatal bus crash on highway 304 in Wang Nam Khiao

By Thai PBS

 

 

As death toll from the bus crash on Highway 304 in Wang Nam Khiao district of Nakhon Ratchasima last night climbed to 18, deputy prime minister Gen Prawit Wongsuwan said brake failure was the cause of the fatal accident.

 

Gen Prawit said the accident of this double deck bus was caused by brake failure. He said double deck buses have been used for public transport for a long time and the transport officials have the safety standards to govern the operation of these buses.

 

He said it was unnecessary to have more safety measures to prevent fatal bus accidents during the Songkran festival as the existing strict measures, and laws remained in force, particularly drink driving, drowsy driving, and speeding.

 

Full story: http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/brake-failure-blamed-fatal-bus-crash-highway-304-wang-nam-khiao/

 

-- © Copyright Thai PBS 2018-03-22

[Peterphuket]

1 minute ago, Peterphuket said:

Listen I'm 70 years old, drive from the time when I was 18, the last 30 years automatic, do I something wrong......??

But to be honestly, I'm aware about what you say, but so far it has always gone well.

[Mattd]

1 minute ago, webfact said:

Gen Prawit said the accident of this double deck bus was caused by brake failure. He said double deck buses have been used for public transport for a long time and the transport officials have the safety standards to govern the operation of these buses.

And this is exactly why Thailand will continue to be number one for road deaths!

How the hell can they determine the cause was brake failure after such a short time span and destructive force of the crash.................... easier just to fob it off as that, the minions will believe!

[Peterphuket]

1 minute ago, webfact said:

Brake failure blamed for fatal bus crash on highway 304 in Wang Nam Khiao

By Thai PBS

 

 

As death toll from the bus crash on Highway 304 in Wang Nam Khiao district of Nakhon Ratchasima last night climbed to 18, deputy prime minister Gen Prawit Wongsuwan said brake failure was the cause of the fatal accident.

 

Gen Prawit said the accident of this double deck bus was caused by brake failure. He said double deck buses have been used for public transport for a long time and the transport officials have the safety standards to govern the operation of these buses.

 

He said it was unnecessary to have more safety measures to prevent fatal bus accidents during the Songkran festival as the existing strict measures, and laws remained in force, particularly drink driving, drowsy driving, and speeding.

 

Full story: http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/brake-failure-blamed-fatal-bus-crash-highway-304-wang-nam-khiao/

 

-- © Copyright Thai PBS 2018-03-22

"He said it was unnecessary to have more safety measures to prevent fatal bus accidents during the Songkran festival as the existing strict measures, and laws remained in force, particularly drink driving, drowsy driving, and speeding."

 

Of course Khun Prawit, nothing to the point continue.

[kannot]

1 hour ago, Airbagwill said:

sorry I don't understand, what point are you making?

90kmh on a  3  lane  toll road  with good  surface  going out of Bangkok  stupidly  slow and no one does it, usually 120kmh.

Speed for many is the "only"  issue, speed isnt a problem its the driver thats the problem, thats where they really need to focus, instead  youll get draconian laws and we may as  well end  up walking everywhere, already the UK has many 20mph unecessary  limits and if you are doing  26mph in one 3  points and fined, 10% and 2-3mph is all thats allowed there all because pedestrians  cant  look where their  wandering.

Outside  schools   is  ok but now I think I read they were planning a massive 20mph max all over  Birmingham where I was originally  from. Itll end  up the same here.