Man holds hostages in French supermarket, claims allegiance to Islamic State - BFM TV

[simple1]

15 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

Was this terrorist a 'refugee''' - or a 'home grown' terrorist?

Moroccan heritage family, born in France.

[FreddieRoyle]

Well guys, the French people have a huge problem. Their interior minister does not understand the issue one iota.

 

Gerard Collomb described him as a “radicalised petty criminal and small-time drug dealer”.

He said it was not clear whether he was a committed radical, adding: “It was more of a petty criminal who at a certain moment decided to act.”

 

In the French govt's little minds, small time pot sellers suddenly go on suicide murder rampages in ISIS's name. How many more people will political correctness cause to be killed before finally there will be a desire to a)understand the problem, and b)deal with it ??

 

RIP to the deceased victims in this latest Islamic terror outrage.

[metisdead]

Off topic posts and the replies have been removed. 

[simple1]

1 hour ago, FreddieRoyle said:

Well guys, the French people have a huge problem. Their interior minister does not understand the issue one iota.

 

Gerard Collomb described him as a “radicalised petty criminal and small-time drug dealer”.

He said it was not clear whether he was a committed radical, adding: “It was more of a petty criminal who at a certain moment decided to act.”

 

In the French govt's little minds, small time pot sellers suddenly go on suicide murder rampages in ISIS's name. How many more people will political correctness cause to be killed before finally there will be a desire to a)understand the problem, and b)deal with it ??

 

RIP to the deceased victims in this latest Islamic terror outrage.

Considering French laws enacted for counterterrorism and other legal measures encouraged, to accuse Gerard Collomb, the Interior Minister of France, of being PC is frankly ridiculous. Perhaps this incident will lead to a change to threat assessment policies. In the meantime the Rule of Law is essential, not a knee jerk response based on hard right divisiveness.

Edited March 25, 2018 by simple1

[Skeptic7]

On 3/23/2018 at 8:05 PM, saakura said:

Not again, getting sick of this Allahu Akbar brainwashed idiots.

Me too, but been sick of it/them for decades already. 

[Grouse]

http://theconversation.com/london-train-bombing-why-is-europe-seeing-so-many-terrorist-attacks-84176

 

This is quite a good quick analysis

 

I for one do not accept jihadi inspired terrorism as the new normal in this century. As I have said before, I want see real action to reduce the number of Muslims in Europe. That includes negative discrimination, even informally, to stop these people taking certain types of jobs including any security related roles, cab driving, teaching etc. 

 

BTW, I know I spelt Jihadi incorrectly. I don't give a damn how it's spelt.

[transam]

6 minutes ago, Grouse said:

http://theconversation.com/london-train-bombing-why-is-europe-seeing-so-many-terrorist-attacks-84176

 

This is quite a good quick analysis

 

I for one do not accept jihadi inspired terrorism as the new normal in this century. As I have said before, I want see real action to reduce the number of Muslims in Europe. That includes negative discrimination, even informally, to stop these people taking certain types of jobs including any security related roles, cab driving, teaching etc. 

 

BTW, I know I spelt Jihadi incorrectly. I don't give a damn how it's spelt.

Crazy talk......

So what would you do with Jehovah Witness folk who will let their child die rather than have a blood transfusion...?

[simple1]

3 hours ago, Grouse said:

That includes negative discrimination <snip>

Seems you didn't read the link you provided. BTW your idea is contrary to the recommendations of Western national security / counter terrorism specialists.

[Grouse]

6 hours ago, transam said:

Crazy talk......

So what would you do with Jehovah Witness folk who will let their child die rather than have a blood transfusion...?

Why do you bring up Jehovah's Witnesses? Nothing to do with me. I suspect they are more mad than bad though.

 

Their children should be taken into care if necessary. (Just the same as all those children forced to wear Aladdin and Alibaba outfits when they're not old enough to decide for themselves. Criminal).

[Grouse]

3 hours ago, simple1 said:

Seems you didn't read the link you provided. BTW your idea is contrary to the recommendations of Western national security / counter terrorism specialists.

Humour me. What did I miss? I am interested in Europe BTW.

[Scott]

Just to clarify, with children who are denied necessary medical care, the state will usually take custody of the child, authorize treatment and then return custody to the parents if they are otherwise fit to provide care. 

 

Now, please stay on the topic of this thread.

 

[simple1]

7 hours ago, Grouse said:

Humour me. What did I miss? I am interested in Europe BTW.

From your link compare the US versus a number of EU countries regards discrimination and outcomes

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, simple1 said:

From your link compare the US versus a number of EU countries regards discrimination and outcomes

Don't be naive. The article CLEARLY makes the point that Muslims are a TINY percentage of USA population and are easily integrated (absorbed). Thank you for making my point! Glad you agree that if Muslims were only 3% of the population of European countries we would not have a problem! ?

Edited March 25, 2018 by Grouse

[simple1]

23 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Don't be naive. The article CLEARLY makes the point that Muslims are a TINY percentage of USA population and are easily integrated (absorbed). Thank you for making my point! Glad you agree that if Muslims were only 3% of the population of European countries we would not have a problem! ?

You clearly misunderstood. Contrary to your assertion active discrimination is the way to go, the opposite holds true, as also articulated by leaders in counter terrorism policy. The 3% or similar is a BS claim originating from far right memes.

[lannarebirth]

1 hour ago, simple1 said:

You clearly misunderstood. Contrary to your assertion active discrimination is the way to go, the opposite holds true, as also articulated by leaders in counter terrorism policy. The 3% or similar is a BS claim originating from far right memes.

Muslim population in the US is 1.1% of the total US population.

[simple1]

25 minutes ago, lannarebirth said:

Muslim population in the US is 1.1% of the total US population.

I know, and?

[lannarebirth]

1 minute ago, simple1 said:

I know, and?

 

A poster mentioned it was 3% and you commented that was not true but I didn't know if that meant it was higher or lower than 3% , so I looked it up.  Any other questions?

[simple1]

6 minutes ago, lannarebirth said:

 

A poster mentioned it was 3% and you commented that was not true but I didn't know if that meant it was higher or lower than 3% , so I looked it up.  Any other questions?

Think you've got the wrong end of the stick. From members post...

 

if Muslims were only 3% of the population of European countries we would not have a problem!

 

He was inferring that if the Muslim heritage population is more than 3% in a non Muslim country it automatically equates to the commencement of Islamist conflict / terrorism in that nation. As I said an oft repeated far right mime. 

Edited March 26, 2018 by simple1

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, simple1 said:

You clearly misunderstood. Contrary to your assertion active discrimination is the way to go, the opposite holds true, as also articulated by leaders in counter terrorism policy. The 3% or similar is a BS claim originating from far right memes.

Sorry, misquote by me

 

"In contrast, the U.S. has a much lower proportion of Muslim residents – about 3.3 million people, or 1 percent of the population – and they tend to be well-integrated into American society, with educational attainment, household income and employment levels comparable to those of the general public."

 

The Conversation is a LEFT wing Australian group that is well respected. So much for "far right wing meme"

 

I think the conclusions are quite clear. Get the population of Muslims much lower as a percentage. 3% would be a reasonable initial target. I recommend a multi-pronged governmental approach to achieve a net emigration of Muslims from Europe.

[Grouse]

13 minutes ago, simple1 said:

Think you've got the wrong end of the stick. From members post...

 

if Muslims were only 3% of the population of European countries we would not have a problem!

 

He was inferring that if the Muslim heritage population is more than 3% in a non Muslim country it automatically equates to the commencement of Islamist conflict / terrorism in that nation. As I said an oft repeated far right mime. 

I think the fundamental truth of my assertion is self evident. If the Muslim population grows above a certain percentage (presumably greater than 1.1%). Integration fails and strife occurs. A bit like chemistry: muslims are only partly soluble in Western societies.

Edited March 26, 2018 by Grouse

[CharlesSwann]

On 24/03/2018 at 9:53 PM, overherebc said:

Why do people who seem on the face of it appear to be intelligent disprove that fact by telling everyone their sky floating god thing is better than everyone elses.

Ever seen a film/movie called the gods must be crazy?

Because the purpose of religion is group solidarity. Groups form because humans are essentially competitive and each group needs to protect itself. Islamic terrorism isn't about religion at all, it just looks that way on the surface. It's about the group asserting itself because it feels insecure. The terrorist craves the accolade of his peers, and aims to spread a wave of self-righteous solidarity through the group, which explains why they so often want to die in the process - the greater the sacrifice, the greater the publicity, the greater the effect.

 

Once understood, religion is so facile it's a joke. But because politicians are such a long way from understanding this, they are a long way from a solution.

[overherebc]

16 minutes ago, CharlesSwann said:

Because the purpose of religion is group solidarity. Groups form because humans are essentially competitive and each group needs to protect itself. Islamic terrorism isn't about religion at all, it just looks that way on the surface. It's about the group asserting itself because it feels insecure. The terrorist craves the accolade of his peers, and aims to spread a wave of self-righteous solidarity through the group, which explains why they so often want to die in the process - the greater the sacrifice, the greater the publicity, the greater the effect.

 

Once understood, religion is so facile it's a joke. But because politicians are such a long way from understanding this, they are a long way from a solution.

The main purpose of religion(s) is to enrich some, in fancy gowns, and to control the masses for political power. 99% of these suicide bombers and hostage takers are low IQ and/or are uneducated people who are easily led and believe the claptrap they are fed about gods, heaven and hell etc.

In all honesty two good hookers sounds more appealing to me rather than 72, or whatever number it is, virgins.

[Scott]

Off-topic posts removed.   The topic is about a situation in France.  

 

[maxcorrigan]

22 hours ago, Grouse said:

http://theconversation.com/london-train-bombing-why-is-europe-seeing-so-many-terrorist-attacks-84176

 

This is quite a good quick analysis

 

I for one do not accept jihadi inspired terrorism as the new normal in this century. As I have said before, I want see real action to reduce the number of Muslims in Europe. That includes negative discrimination, even informally, to stop these people taking certain types of jobs including any security related roles, cab driving, teaching etc. 

 

BTW, I know I spelt Jihadi incorrectly. I don't give a damn how it's spelt.

Yes certain types of security jobs, such as in the UK where muslims run the security checks at LHR both internation and national level, it's like putting the fox in charge of the henhouse, ridiculous!

[simple1]

3 hours ago, Grouse said:

Sorry, misquote by me

 

"In contrast, the U.S. has a much lower proportion of Muslim residents – about 3.3 million people, or 1 percent of the population – and they tend to be well-integrated into American society, with educational attainment, household income and employment levels comparable to those of the general public."

 

The Conversation is a LEFT wing Australian group that is well respected. So much for "far right wing meme"

 

I think the conclusions are quite clear. Get the population of Muslims much lower as a percentage. 3% would be a reasonable initial target. I recommend a multi-pronged governmental approach to achieve a net emigration of Muslims from Europe.

The article makes no association between percentage of Muslims as a trigger for commencing Islamist terrorism, that's your spin and to repeat originates from the far right. Forcibly removing millions of Muslims from Western countries is not feasible. An example where Muslims have returned in their millions to their home country is from Pakistan to Afghanistan when conflict reduced for a while. The article states one of the causes leading to radicalisation is lack of integration. As Scott has highlighted integration services focus by NGOs /government is an important factor, as is non discrimination against minorities. My understanding is the US has a greater services focus regards integration issue than, for example, UK. You will of course remember that prior to the War on Terror there was very minimal Islamist attacks in Western countries. Whilst there is no excuse for attacks on innocent civilians, perhaps it's a good idea to think through as many Islamist terror killings in the West are proclaimed as revenge for the killing of civilians by Western forces in Muslim majority countries.To my amateur knowledge the War on Terror has caused more harm than good to Western interests and looks likely Trump Administration is in the process of compounding the errors thereby leading to more deaths in the West. 

 

Unfortunately the French have a lot of negative baggage with their involvement with the Islamic world in Africa and Near East. Hopefully the French government can implement further policies that will lessen the threat. Personally I do not believe discrimination as proposed by you is the way to go, nor to my knowledge do counter terrorism professionals. Although I would be interested if you can point to countries where discrimination against minorities has been a success in countering terrorism.

 

I am curious whether the murdered senior police office had permission to swap himself for the female hostage; does anyone know if the media / French police have covered this aspect?

Edited March 26, 2018 by simple1

[dick dasterdly]

13 minutes ago, simple1 said:

The article makes no association between percentage of Muslims as a trigger for commencing Islamist terrorism, that's your spin and to repeat originates from the far right. Forcibly removing millions of Muslims from Western countries is not feasible. An example where Muslims have returned in their millions to their home country is from Pakistan to Afghanistan when conflict reduced for a while. The article states one of the causes leading to radicalisation is lack of integration. As Scott has highlighted integration services focus by NGOs /government is an important factor, as is non discrimination against minorities. My understanding is the US has a greater services focus regards integration issue than, for example, UK. You will of course remember that prior to the War on Terror there was very minimal Islamist attacks in Western countries. Whilst there is no excuse for attacks on innocent civilians, perhaps it's a good idea to think through as many Islamist terror killings in the West are proclaimed as revenge for the killing of civilians by Western forces in Muslim majority countries.To my amateur knowledge the War on Terror has caused more harm than good to Western interests and looks likely Trump Administration is in the process of compounding the errors thereby leading to more deaths in the West. 

 

Unfortunately the French have a lot of negative baggage with their involvement with the Islamic world in Africa and Near East. Hopefully the French government can implement further policies that will lessen the threat. Personally I do not believe discrimination as proposed by you is the way to go, nor to my knowledge do counter terrorism professionals. Although I would be interested if you can point to countries where discrimination against minorities has been a success in countering terrorism.

 

I am curious whether the murdered senior police office had permission to swap himself for the female hostage; does anyone know if the media / French police have covered this aspect?

"I am curious whether the murdered senior police office had permission to swap himself for the female hostage; does anyone know if the media / French police have covered this aspect?"

 

Why are you curious?  Is it an important point?

 

Edit - 'brave/hero' are terms too often used inappropriately - but this police officer was both brave and heroic.

Edited March 26, 2018 by dick dasterdly

[Grouse]

23 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

"I am curious whether the murdered senior police office had permission to swap himself for the female hostage; does anyone know if the media / French police have covered this aspect?"

 

Why are you curious?  Is it an important point?

 

Edit - 'brave/hero' are terms too often used inappropriatey - but this police officer was both brave and heroic.

sorry, posting error

Edited March 26, 2018 by Grouse

[Grouse]

Permission? Permission? Are you mad? The man's a hero. I am sure he acted in a selfless manner out of goodness. You clearly have no understanding of such things.

 

Edited March 26, 2018 by Grouse

[simple1]

21 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

"I am curious whether the murdered senior police office had permission to swap himself for the female hostage; does anyone know if the media / French police have covered this aspect?"

 

Why are you curious?  Is it an important point?

 

Edit - 'brave/hero' are terms too often used inappropriately - but this police officer was both brave and heroic.

Of course offering your life for another is an outstanding act of bravery. I am curious because to my knowledge there hasn't been a precedent, nor SOP when handling Islamist terror incidents in Western countries

[simple1]

4 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Permission? Permission? Are you mad? The man's a hero. I am sure he acted in a selfless manner out of goodness. You clearly have no understanding of such things.

Do you have knowledge of SOP for Islamist terror incidents - didn't think so