Village Fees

[kirkieb]

Is there a reference anywhere as to a Legal requirement for how a Private Village charges Fees for Services and maintenance?

I'm sure I read it in the Land Act they reference per sq Wah but I've also been told it can be whatever the Association decide.  Anyone help

Cheers

[ross163103]

I'm not a legal expert but have lived in Thailand many years; I don't think there is any legal requirements concerning anything within a private estate. The reason I say this is our estate recently doubled our water rates overnight and there is nothing we can do about it because it's a private estate. Maybe things can be done about electricity since it's supplied by the state but most other things are privately owned/run so not much recourse.

I would say concerning land prices; since it's a private estate the person/persons that own it can charge whatever they want per talang wah, similar to if you own a house, you can charge whatever price you think the market will bear. I paid approx 18,000 per talang wah for my land and now the estate is charging approx 28,000 per talang wah.

[aussieinphuket]

our water rate per unit was doubled just recently but the previous rate was very low anyway so we probably

paying a fair rate now as i heard some other developments are charging more ..

 

we pay CAM fees a monthly amount of approx 15,000 thb but this covers security, gardening, garbage removal, general maintenance around the development but any problems like a broken well pump the costs are shared between each villa .... the majority of our costs go to security as we have 24 hr guards.. also cost for management company to collect funds and make various payments and ensure all runs smoothly...

 

some developments charge much more as they also charging costs for internet supplied and maybe some other services and they vary between each development , usually large developments with more villas is cheaper as more to share costs between.. 

 

anything extra done is then charged on a pro rata basis, we all pay PEA power supply company directly and each villa has a meter.. there is a common area water and electricity charge between villa but this is also quite cheap...

 

 

 

 

[everett kendall]

How do you make residents pay the maintenance fees. If a house owner refuses to pay what recourse is there? 

BTW- 15,000 Baht a month seems extremely high for the maintenance fee.

[Halfaboy]

In our (small village - 26 houses) the annual fee is 16.000 Baht and we are getting the same services a abover described. A fee of 15.000 Baht per month seems for me to be on the high side.

[Tchooptip]

Do you know exactly how many houses in you "private village"?

 

[snowgard]

We have our own house and land (1 rai) and pay like nothing!!!

Electric for 5 Pers. is around 2.000 THB/monthly

Internet 50 MB Speed for 799 THB/monthly

Garbage 40 THB/monthly

Water free (have a own well)

Gardening 1.000 THB for 3 days working/monthly.

 

That's all. ;-)

 

[topt]

14 minutes ago, snowgard said:

We have our own house and land (1 rai) and pay like nothing!!!

If you are not in a private (normally gated) village then it is not really relevant........

[snowgard]

Did you ever check where the water comes from? A lot of PRIVATE VILLAGES tell they have their own water. But how they get it? The most from public water lines.

Do you know the new renting law? This maybe will help you: http://thailandproperty.news/new-rental-law-start-may-1

[topt]

On 3/30/2018 at 9:36 AM, kirkieb said:

Anyone help

OP is the village set up with a Juristic or still owned/managed by the original developer?

You do not say whether there is currently an annual fee?

Our "village" is set up as a legal entity registered with the land office. The village charge as you say is based on so many baht per talang wah but this was set long before I moved here.

 

There have been some fairly recent threads on Juristics for villages/mu baans including one that posted a copy of the Village Act. May be worth searching that out if you haven't already.

[ross163103]

Our estate has approx 90 houses and as far as if we don't pay the maintenance fees; some Thai owners found out the hard way, the estate cuts off your water supply--takes the water meter that WE had to buy out of the system. I guess if an estate uses city water that's not possible but ours have their own wells. I'm not sure the legality of taking the water meter that you bought away but anyone who's been in Thailand for any amount of time; farangs don't have many rights here.

[topt]

2 hours ago, everett kendall said:

How do you make residents pay the maintenance fees. If a house owner refuses to pay what recourse is there? 

BTW- 15,000 Baht a month seems extremely high for the maintenance fee.

Our village has (finally) started legal proceedings against those owners with multiple years of non payments. After the second letter this has been enough in most cases for the owners to start to pay. (and with interest as well)

 

I agree with you and guess that 15k a month is either a very large property and or in an "exclusive" development.......or with a lot of expensive common facilities.

[DJ54]

US friend sold their house to buy condo for easier up keep and their children had moved out. There was an Association fee which at the time was fair. A year  later it doubled and ended up more than their mortgage. 

[khunPer]

4 hours ago, snowgard said:

Did you ever check where the water comes from? A lot of PRIVATE VILLAGES tell they have their own water. But how they get it? The most from public water lines.

Do you know the new renting law? This maybe will help you: http://thailandproperty.news/new-rental-law-start-may-1

If was just going to mention that I read in the news about a new law, glad "snowgard" shared a link – saved me from Google it – as that may help OP...

[KittenKong]

In our (small village - 26 houses) the annual fee is 16.000 Baht and we are getting the same services a abover described.

36 houses paying 16,000B per year gives you 48,000B per month. Two security guard shifts of 12 hours per day would take care of 30,000 of that, leaving not much for the rest. I suppose if you dont have many other facilities or expenses then it would be just about possible. If you had a shared pool and nice gardens it would not be possible.

[ianf]

We own a house in an upscale village. Our fee is 28000 per year for two houses (we have a house for guests). It's worked out per house per sqwah but is capped. 15000 per month does not sound correct to me.

[aussieinphuket]

On 31/03/2018 at 9:44 AM, everett kendall said:

How do you make residents pay the maintenance fees. If a house owner refuses to pay what recourse is there? 

BTW- 15,000 Baht a month seems extremely high for the maintenance fee.

if you read carefully, 

1. management fee 

2. security

3. garbage removal

4. gardening and general maintenance

 

as we only 8 villa the security fee per month is approx 7,500 per villa just for this, the management fee

for collecting funds, making payments and ensuring all runs smoothly is about another 5,000 each villa

per month so already we into the 12,500 pm number the additional 2,500 for other items listed.

 

honestly this is cheap compared to some others i know of, at some of the bigger villas and developments they paying upto 30/50,000 pm.... 

 

 

but my big question is the same as you asked .... how do u make residents pay monthly CAM fees , if they refuse... we have gone down this line with one of 2 owners over past years, courts wont help so all you can do is look at the ownership structure if its lease hold you can stop water and electricity .... or if freehold then you just stop services like garbage and gardening and then make life difficult security guards will not open and close front gate for non-paying owners.... but seriously there is not much you can do, if you have respectful owners who want properties to look good for future sales then the properties must be maintained and luckily we only have one cheap charlie who is english in our development and moans and groans about everything, though he sits in a bar getting pissed up every nite paying for booze and girls.....   any other solutions to non payers please i would love to have more advice on what to do..

 

[KittenKong]

how do u make residents pay monthly CAM fees , if they refuse... we have gone down this line with one of 2 owners over past years, courts wont help

Why wont the courts help? Non-payment of common fees is a debt which can be pursued in court just like any other debt. Of course you would need to pay fees to do this, and possibly engage a lawyer, and it would not be worthwhile for just a few tens of thousands of Baht.

Condos I have known have pursued large common fee debts in court successfully, resulting in the forced sale by court order of the units in order to cover the debts, and the situation appears to be identical. In most cases I suspect that people would pay up long before the day of the hearing.

[kirkieb]

We just had a Special General Meeting to Vote on Village becoming a Juristic Association. Lawyers are still checking the massive paperwork required from over 160 properties and a kilometre long village has many Common Areas.

 

Once we establish the Vote and documents are correct then we need to establish a Constitution and Village Rules.  I have read The Land Act and it seems to infer a fee per Wah or size of property is acceptable but It doesn't seem to say it is a law and can be at Villages discretion by way of a vote.

 

This has taken 20 yrs to get Developer to sign off and many people have been hurt by the process so the idea of a Band system is what we are floating.

ie. Band 1 Townhouse 800 Baht

      Band 2 Small Hse 1000 Baht

       Band 3 Lge Hse 1200 Baht

 

This fee pays for 24 hr Guard Security at front gate, CCTV at Electronic Rear Gate, Rubbish Collection Daily, Gardeners for massive area and street lighting. Our Pool and Clubhouse closed due to insufficient funds to repair the old and tired property.

 

Currently we pay 1300 Baht per month but that is because many (about 45%) don't pay and just laugh at the ones that do.  We are hoping to rectify that as the Village was sold as a private Village

 

With a Yes Vote we think the Band idea is reasonable

Just want to know if its legal and cant seem to get a reference

 

[kirkieb]

22 hours ago, KittenKong said:

Why wont the courts help? Non-payment of common fees is a debt which can be pursued in court just like any other debt. Of course you would need to pay fees to do this, and possibly engage a lawyer, and it would not be worthwhile for just a few tens of thousands of Baht.

Condos I have known have pursued large common fee debts in court successfully, resulting in the forced sale by court order of the units in order to cover the debts, and the situation appears to be identical. In most cases I suspect that people would pay up long before the day of the hearing.

If you are in a Legal Juristic Village then a visit to Land Office to put a Lean on the owners Chanute can be administered. At same time pick a Lawyer and get them to have the worst offender a target and have them charged through Civil Law,  Land Act has recently had some amendments which include a 3 month time of failure to pay Village Fees can have the property seized, confiscated and with Interest.  The Lawyer will get paid the fees via the Court Action.  Once that is done the word will spread very quickly.
Sadly this is long over due but slowly Private Villages are getting law reform to assist.

 

Councils and Municipalities don't want the extra burden of street lighting etc so they are helping just got to find the right person.

[kirkieb]

Thanks for feedback but I found the reference

Land Development Act Section 49

Maintenance Fees of a Village that is Juristic are decided by Resolution of a General Meeting of Owners.

So clearly the majority decide the amount.

In accordance with S.44(1) or Commission under S.44(2)

[topt]

On 4/5/2018 at 10:17 AM, aussieinphuket said:

but my big question is the same as you asked .... how do u make residents pay monthly CAM fees , if they refuse... we have gone down this line with one of 2 owners over past years, courts wont help

 

On 4/5/2018 at 10:48 AM, KittenKong said:

Why wont the courts help? Non-payment of common fees is a debt which can be pursued in court just like any other debt. Of course you would need to pay fees to do this, and possibly engage a lawyer, and it would not be worthwhile for just a few tens of thousands of Baht.

As per my post no. 12,  as KK mentions above, this is what is happening in our village but has taken a new forceful chairman to push the lawyer to make it happen (I think he changed the lawyer as well ).

 

I could never understand why we did not pursue it earlier as it was talked about for years but nothing seemed to happen. Maybe as kirkieb suggests things are a changing.........

[kirkieb]

Thai Land Laws are changing and in recent times new laws allowing a Lean placed across a Chanute if after 6 months of fees not being paid. That means the property can not be used as equity or sold while that lean is placed.  Interest can be charged and even seizure of the property  is all now available under Thai Law.

 

The only thing is you must be a Juristic under Law Village.

Plenty of great lawyers are getting their fees paid for also so the Village win wins.