Cryptogeddon

[Brunolem]

A few months ago, members were inquiring about cryptocurrencies and how to enter the game.

Back then, I remember posting a comment like: remember the story of Joe Kennedy and the shoeshine boy.

And here we are...with a (very) little help from the Thai finance ministry...

 

https://cointelegraph.com/news/thai-finance-ministry-releases-final-version-of-cryptocurrency-tax-framework

 

 

 

 

[HerbalEd]

I've never bought into the cryptocurrency thing, and I also heed this advice from Warren Buffett: "Cryptocurrency will have a bad ending."

 

 

[Davedub]

Have we seen the start of Cryptogeddon? Lol - not in the slightest!

Analysis of Bitcoin prices since it's inception will show the recent correction is not unprecedented. Although the actual value of Bitcoin is significantly higher each time it happens, the current 'dip' is just a case of history repeating. Putting the current 'dip' into perspective, note that the price of Bitcoin today is six times higher than it was this time last year.

The people who bought in during the quiet times because they understand the truly revolutionary nature of blockchain technologies (there are many other applications other than currency) and want to support a more fair, equitable, global system of storage and exchange of value that doesn't rely on 'trusted' third parties (e.g. banks) continue to show their support. 

The real problem is that people react to the mainstream media's reports of other people 'getting rich quick' and buy in at the peak due to fear of missing out (FOMO). 

It's also worth noting that this effect is not limited to Bitcoin speculation; check the NASDAQ charts for the period 1990 to the early 2000's (the dotcom bubble). Almost exact same pattern, albeit on a far slower timescale. That market recovered too.

 

Let's not get too caught up in the hype folks! There are vast swathes of highly exciting research and product development going on in the blockchain space. Some of the best mathematical, logistical, economic, legal, entrepreneurial and IT brains are going all guns to better our lives using these technologies by removing the need for centralised 'trusted third parties' [sic]. In addition to storage and exchange of value, blockchain technologies are set to revolutionise legal systems, systems of media distribution, social networks, logistical infrastructure coordination, the list goes on and grows by the day

Like it or not, blockchain technologies are set to revolutionise many aspects of our lives over the next decade or so. Bitcoin is just the beginning. 

 

And finally, the Wall Street Cheat sheet ;-)

 

 

[timendres]

50 minutes ago, Davedub said:

Have we seen the start of Cryptogeddon? Lol - not in the slightest!

Analysis of Bitcoin prices since it's inception will show the recent correction is not unprecedented. Although the actual value of Bitcoin is significantly higher each time it happens, the current 'dip' is just a case of history repeating. Putting the current 'dip' into perspective, note that the price of Bitcoin today is six times higher than it was this time last year.

The people who bought in during the quiet times because they understand the truly revolutionary nature of blockchain technologies (there are many other applications other than currency) and want to support a more fair, equitable, global system of storage and exchange of value that doesn't rely on 'trusted' third parties (e.g. banks) continue to show their support. 

The real problem is that people react to the mainstream media's reports of other people 'getting rich quick' and buy in at the peak due to fear of missing out (FOMO). 

It's also worth noting that this effect is not limited to Bitcoin speculation; check the NASDAQ charts for the period 1990 to the early 2000's (the dotcom bubble). Almost exact same pattern, albeit on a far slower timescale. That market recovered too.

 

Let's not get too caught up in the hype folks! There are vast swathes of highly exciting research and product development going on in the blockchain space. Some of the best mathematical, logistical, economic, legal, entrepreneurial and IT brains are going all guns to better our lives using these technologies by removing the need for centralised 'trusted third parties' [sic]. In addition to storage and exchange of value, blockchain technologies are set to revolutionise legal systems, systems of media distribution, social networks, logistical infrastructure coordination, the list goes on and grows by the day

Like it or not, blockchain technologies are set to revolutionise many aspects of our lives over the next decade or so. Bitcoin is just the beginning. 

 

And finally, the Wall Street Cheat sheet ;-) [removed]

I think you are confusing matters a little bit.

 

Blockchain technology, and it's inevitable application in many arenas, which I fully agree will happen, has nothing to do with the price of Bitcoin. Bitcoin can go to zero while blockchain technology finds applications in every aspect of society and goes on to make billions for those developing those applications.

 

Further, unlike Bitcoin, stocks are actually backed by something of value. As long as Apple generates enormous revenues with a real business and pays dividends, it will never go to zero, unlike Bitcoin.

 

As I see it, the winners in the cryptocurrency arena will be those who are now putting in place currencies that are backed by real assets (like SwissRealCoin), or facilitate a niche payment ecosystem (like Travelkoin), or build an ecosystem (like Six is trying to do). Bitcoin does not really fall into this category. I believe that Bitcoin will inevitably be relegated to a "collectable" status, like baseball cards, due it's historic place as the first cryptocurrency to take hold. Collectable status will not justify the price we see today, or even a fraction of it.

 

[Davedub]

1 hour ago, timendres said:

Blockchain technology, and it's inevitable application in many arenas, which I fully agree will happen, has nothing to do with the price of Bitcoin.

 

Thank you for your reply. Whilst I do agree that Bitcoin itself may have a limited shelf life I really can't agree that blockchain technology has nothing to do with the price of Bitcoin.

 

Given that Bitcoin is currently the flagship for blockchain technology, it represents the starting point / point of entry for most investors / speculators interested in getting exposure to the blockchain space. In addition, many of the investment opportunities currently available (in the form of ICOs like were used to launch SwissRealCoin and Travelkoin) require Bitcoin (or Ether) to participate. So I'd argue that the entire blockchain industry is currently driven in no small part by the value of Bitcoin (and Ether).

 

Regarding the newer applications of blockchain technology, I'd say that many do not hold true to the principles of Bitcoin, particularly in respect of decentralisation. Decentralisation is the cornerstone for fairness, openness and trustlessness. Centralised systems will always be prone to negative human effects like greed and corruption - sadly these are parts of human nature, which is why truly trustless, decentralised systems like Bitcoin were invented in the first place. I believe this point is often (perilously) overlooked.

 

I can't really agree with your statement about Bitcoin failing due to not being backed by anything of value either! Take the example of the USD, which has been backed by nothing other than confidence since Nixon decoupled it from gold in the 70's. One Bitcoin is estimated to take around $1000 to produce. The equivalent amount in USD costs pennies to produce, yet the USD still has value does it not?

 

Back on the subject of Bitcoin's potentially limited shelf life, as I say I do agree that it may be replaced at some point in the future. The myspace / youtube anaogy may be pertinent here; first to market is not always the winner. So Bitcoin may get replaced by something very similar; the Litecoin dev team, for example, have done a great job of avoiding the politics that have plagued Bitcoin's development whilst adopting the best new features proposed for Bitcoin.

I believe it's also important to remember that Bitcoin does already have utility aside from as a speculatory vehicle - people in countries with runaway inflation due to bad governance are using it to retain their hard earned wealth is a good example. Also, given the nascent Wall Street market for Bitcoin ETFs and all the other Bitcoin based financial instruments under development by the existing financial systems, it has to be appreciated that a lot of very serious investors are paying attention and getting involved. (I can't say I see this as necessarily a positive development, but it does demonstrate the seriousness with which institutional investors are taking in Bitcoin).

 

I so wish I had more time to go into depth on all of this, but I have lots to do today! Suffice to say, I honestly can't see Bitcoin being reduced to 'collectable baseball card' status anytime soon.

 

[Peter Denis]

Two very, interesting articles on the subject (one contra / one pro with some reservations).

The contra-article was featured in The Guardian and is a reprint of mid January written article by mr MoneyMustache

> https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/jan/15/should-i-invest-bitcoin-dont-mr-money-moustache

After reading it I decided NOT to 'invest' in crypto-currencies.

The second article is moderately PRO, and specifically makes a case for BitCoin (predicting the other crypto-currencies will not make it).

It gives a very good (historical) background of what constitutes money, and compares Gold / BitCoin / Regular money, coming to the conclusion that in the longer run BitCoin will most probably prevail because it is superior in many aspects.

https://medium.com/@vijayboyapati/the-bullish-case-for-bitcoin-6ecc8bdecc1

After reading the second article, I decided to keep watching the BitCoin evolution and when there are signs of recovery to make a small bet (one which I can afford to loose).

Happy reading!

[Brunolem]

38 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

compares Gold / BitCoin / Regular money, coming to the conclusion that in the longer run BitCoin will most probably prevail because it is superior in many aspects.

 

Khunhan...the land of the beautiful Wat Laan Kuat...

 

As for the longer run, what we know since the time of Voltaire is that our current paper money will likely return to its intrinsic value, which is...read below...

 

In the longer run, it is also likely that those holding the power, especially in the West, won't relinquish the monopoly of printing money, to give it to the peasants, a.k.a. deplorables.

 

Yet, these same people in power would surely be delighted to implement a cryptocurrency that THEY could create at will, and whose owners THEY could totally control, being able to access their accounts anytime.

 

Meanwhile, in the East, it seems that gold, the eternal money, may have a bright future, considering that China and Russia are piling gold bars, as if they were up to something.

 

 

Edited April 2, 2018 by Brunolem

[Suradit69]

Charts are always fun. Here's one from circa 2013 to 2017.  It's the British pound against the dollar. Pretty dramatic, huh?

No one has any certainty as to where Bitcoin or any other crypto is going. Maybe they will all evaporate or maybe, as Tom Lee has claimed, Bitcoin will be above $20,000 by mid-summer.

People have been speculating on the price of gold, oil and interest rates and currencies... all of which have far longer histories than the cryptos, and only a small percentage of the prognosticators get it right and never consistently.

 

 

 

 

[ubonr1971]

Its just a correction in the markets. It will pick up and OP can read back over this and confirm that he was scare mongering

[Brunolem]

3 hours ago, ubonr1971 said:

Its just a correction in the markets. It will pick up and OP can read back over this and confirm that he was scare mongering

A "correction" in financial market language is a loss of 10%...at 20% you enter bear market territory...at 70% you are in crash territory....

 

I would be John Mc Afee, the man who bet his balls on bitcoin reaching 500,000 and then 1,000,000 dollars, I would start seriously worrying.

 

I had a feeling that the party was over as soon as bitcoin became mainstream, with future contracts and banks and hedge funds joining the "pionneers".

 

These institutions are first and foremost the guardians of the fiat-fake-paper money which they also fully control, and it is not in their interest to see investors flowing to cryptos, no more than to gold.

 

The recent leg down for cryptos looks very similar to that of gold, promptly brought down from 1,900 to 1,300 dollars, years ago, when the yellow metal was on a trajectory reminding that of cryptos last year.

 

The banksters won't go down without a fight...to the bitter end...

[theguyfromanotherforum]

8 minutes ago, Brunolem said:

 

 

I had a feeling that the party was over as soon as bitcoin became mainstream, with future contracts and banks and hedge funds joining the "pionneers".

 

Amen!

 

I was laughing when all those YouTube experts and bloggers kept going on about price of bitcoin going to the moon once futures  start trading and Goldman Sachs gets involved.

 

What a bunch of knobheads lolz

[Skeptic7]

Prob not Cryptogedden...as the end of all of them...but do love the term and my guess is YES.

 

Some/many will simply disappear as values go to zero. Others may, someday, have some actual uses...real everyday uses...by real everyday people...practical uses, but these remaining virtual currencies will have to stabilize at sane and realistic (ie LOWER) levels and lose the extreme volatility. Until then, they will never be practical and will remain fringe investment vehicles and a roll of the dice...but misunderstood otherwise.

 

Bubbles are fun & exciting if fortunate enough to get in and out at the proper times...not easy on either end...but most get in too late and lose their asses or panic and lose their assses. A painful lesson bubbles are when they ultimately burst...and they always do. 

[phycokiller]

jeez, while I was enjoying my unexpected early retirement it seems the forum has become a therapy session for those who missed out to boast about their superior foresight. have fun everyone

[Skeptic7]

21 minutes ago, phycokiller said:

jeez, while I was enjoying my unexpected early retirement it seems the forum has become a therapy session for those who missed out to boast about their superior foresight. have fun everyone

Seems to me most of the "boasters" are not here anymore as they didn't possess your "superior foresight" and have nothing left to boast about. Good on ya! Perhaps they needs some of your expertise to recoup their asses...aka asses!

SEEYA and Enjoy! 

     

[Brunolem]

5 minutes ago, Skeptic7 said:

Seems to me most of the "boasters" are not here anymore as they didn't possess your "superior foresight" and have nothing left to boast about.

Right!

I remember in previous threads, at the beginning of this year, the multiple comments of those who were making a killing with cryptos.

Still waiting to hear from them in this thread...

[theguyfromanotherforum]

4 minutes ago, Skeptic7 said:

Seems to me most of the "boasters" are not here anymore as they didn't possess your "superior foresight" and have nothing left to boast about. Good on ya! Perhaps they needs some of your expertise to recoup their asses...aka asses!

SEEYA and Enjoy! 

     

 

There was a guy here boasting that he made so much money trading cryptos that he bought "the very laptop he is writing this post on". Mind you, if the laptop was all you were able to get in one of the biggest run ups in recent history, then there's nothing really to boast about. Bought a 10 mil condo in Patters from your profits? Ok, somewhat impressive, but you could have done the same hodling SP500 i the past 4 years.

 

Most of the crypto braggers here are small players wasting time clicking 24 hours a day.

 

Whata life

 

 

[Skeptic7]

1 hour ago, Brunolem said:

Right!

I remember in previous threads, at the beginning of this year, the multiple comments of those who were making a killing with cryptos.

Still waiting to hear from them in this thread...

May hear 'bout them in the headline news section...among the many "balcony divers" here! 

Edited April 3, 2018 by Skeptic7

[phycokiller]

Im doing fine in my cryto retirement thanks, cant buy quite as many houses as a few months ago but Im doing fine. what I really wonder about is why the same people that say crypto is a flawed concept thats never going to work would come onto a forum about crytos and post the same message everyday. it really is quite fascinating

[Brunolem]

50 minutes ago, phycokiller said:

Im doing fine in my cryto retirement thanks, cant buy quite as many houses as a few months ago but Im doing fine. what I really wonder about is why the same people that say crypto is a flawed concept thats never going to work would come onto a forum about crytos and post the same message everyday. it really is quite fascinating

Contradiction is requested in any meaningful debate...what's the point of a forum where members only congratulate each other?

Now I think it's only fair for naysayers, who were mocked a few months ago, to have their day in the sun.

Personally, I remain open on the concept of cryptocurrency itself, but I am convinced that the bubble days are over...

 

[lkn]

On 4/2/2018 at 3:50 PM, timendres said:

Blockchain technology, and it's inevitable application in many arenas, which I fully agree will happen, has nothing to do with the price of Bitcoin

Overall I agree with your post and that value of bitcoin has nothing to do with whether or not the blockchain concept will see widespread adoption.

 

But as someone who is in technology, I do *not* believe that the blockchain concept will see widespread adoption!

 

It is basically just an append-only database using proof-of-work to allow anyone to append to it.

 

The problem is that the proof-of-work must cost more than the data being protected, so the alternative, having a central authority, is generally much preferred.

It’s also questionable if people want a *truly* immutable database, because humans make mistake, so although you can argue that making it truly immutable avoids censorship, the price of being unable to undo mistakes is just too high (as has already been demonstrated countless times with logic bugs in smart contracts, security flaws in both software and hardware wallets, the many bitcoin exchanges that were hacked, etc.)

 

So the two features of blockchain technology are undesired, but that’s not all, because having these two features have plenty of downsides as well, which makes it even less appealing, primarily the lack of scalability, as all nodes need to retain the full ledger.

[phycokiller]

22 hours ago, Brunolem said:

Contradiction is requested in any meaningful debate...what's the point of a forum where members only congratulate each other?

Now I think it's only fair for naysayers, who were mocked a few months ago, to have their day in the sun.

Personally, I remain open on the concept of cryptocurrency itself, but I am convinced that the bubble days are over...

 

yes, but when they claim that they dont understand cryptos, and its obvious they dont, then their opinion really has no more value then a troll post

[Acemaker]

On 4/2/2018 at 5:53 PM, Brunolem said:

Khunhan...the land of the beautiful Wat Laan Kuat...

 

As for the longer run, what we know since the time of Voltaire is that our current paper money will likely return to its intrinsic value, which is...read below...

 

In the longer run, it is also likely that those holding the power, especially in the West, won't relinquish the monopoly of printing money, to give it to the peasants, a.k.a. deplorables.

 

Yet, these same people in power would surely be delighted to implement a cryptocurrency that THEY could create at will, and whose owners THEY could totally control, being able to access their accounts anytime.

 

Meanwhile, in the East, it seems that gold, the eternal money, may have a bright future, considering that China and Russia are piling gold bars, as if they were up to something.

 

 

QUOTE J.P. MORGAN :  Gold is Money everything else is Credit.   Dont miss this! Message me i will show you how to buy into this Gold backed Coin for just 1 cent per coin, only 10 days left ICO :  www.tradeladder.net

Edited April 6, 2018 by Acemaker

[Skeptic7]

On 4/4/2018 at 3:12 AM, phycokiller said:

yes, but when they claim that they dont understand cryptos, and its obvious they dont, then their opinion really has no more value then a troll post

BS. While some posters asked for advice and explanations...to which they got zero from the self anointed crypto "experts", others flat out said this was highly speculative, misunderstood and risky business. That this crypto bubble was way too overinflated and gonna burst. To which the "SACE" took umbrage and cried FOUL. 

 

The message (what u call trolling) wasn't that they have no understanding of Cryptos...it's that in an overblown investment bubble, everybody thinks they're an expert...until the POP! Then it's apparent that they knew no more than anyone else...some even less.

 

Since this obviously doesn't pertain..not sure why a bit of healthy dissent is so distressing??? Unexpected early retirement... buying houses upon houses. With such success, surely the cryptos can stand on their own merits...despite what a few naysayers here might think. 

 

[Skeptic7]

As mentioned previously...probs not Cryptogeddon per se, but certainty an overdue and expected Cryptogeddon Quarter. 

 

https://www.coindesk.com/how-bad-was-q1s-crypto-market-just-two-top-tier-tokens-saw-green/

[phycokiller]

On 4/6/2018 at 2:30 PM, Skeptic7 said:

BS. While some posters asked for advice and explanations...to which they got zero from the self anointed crypto "experts", others flat out said this was highly speculative, misunderstood and risky business. That this crypto bubble was way too overinflated and gonna burst. To which the "SACE" took umbrage and cried FOUL. 

 

The message (what u call trolling) wasn't that they have no understanding of Cryptos...it's that in an overblown investment bubble, everybody thinks they're an expert...until the POP! Then it's apparent that they knew no more than anyone else...some even less.

 

Since this obviously doesn't pertain..not sure why a bit of healthy dissent is so distressing??? Unexpected early retirement... buying houses upon houses. With such success, surely the cryptos can stand on their own merits...despite what a few naysayers here might think. 

 

bitcoin has a history of bubbles, in fact the earlier ones were bigger

[Ron19]

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[Skeptic7]

5 hours ago, phycokiller said:

bitcoin has a history of bubbles, in fact the earlier ones were bigger

Tru dat...common knowledge.

 

Remains to be seen, however, if this time is different...and if it can ever regain any, most or all of those richly valued, lofty levels. 

[phycokiller]

7 hours ago, Skeptic7 said:

Tru dat...common knowledge.

 

Remains to be seen, however, if this time is different...and if it can ever regain any, most or all of those richly valued, lofty levels. 

yes, but so far its just a standard bitcoin bubble

[jesimps]

On 02/04/2018 at 3:50 PM, timendres said:

I think you are confusing matters a little bit.

 

Blockchain technology, and it's inevitable application in many arenas, which I fully agree will happen, has nothing to do with the price of Bitcoin. Bitcoin can go to zero while blockchain technology finds applications in every aspect of society and goes on to make billions for those developing those applications.

 

Further, unlike Bitcoin, stocks are actually backed by something of value. As long as Apple generates enormous revenues with a real business and pays dividends, it will never go to zero, unlike Bitcoin.

 

As I see it, the winners in the cryptocurrency arena will be those who are now putting in place currencies that are backed by real assets (like SwissRealCoin), or facilitate a niche payment ecosystem (like Travelkoin), or build an ecosystem (like Six is trying to do). Bitcoin does not really fall into this category. I believe that Bitcoin will inevitably be relegated to a "collectable" status, like baseball cards, due it's historic place as the first cryptocurrency to take hold. Collectable status will not justify the price we see today, or even a fraction of it.

 

I'd like to screenshot this and post it back to you at the end of the year but I can't be arsed. 

Many who missed out have posted similar nonsense in the past only to have their nose wiped in it. Jealousy makes people very bitter and twisted.

[jesimps]

On 03/04/2018 at 2:07 PM, theguyfromanotherforum said:

 

There was a guy here boasting that he made so much money trading cryptos that he bought "the very laptop he is writing this post on". Mind you, if the laptop was all you were able to get in one of the biggest run ups in recent history, then there's nothing really to boast about. Bought a 10 mil condo in Patters from your profits? Ok, somewhat impressive, but you could have done the same hodling SP500 i the past 4 years.

 

Most of the crypto braggers here are small players wasting time clicking 24 hours a day.

 

Whata life

 

 

What are you even doing on this forum? You say "Whata life" and yet here you are, not even a crypto trader spending your life arguing about cryptos. At least the traders are here to share their views, TA and maybe pick up a few trading tips.

Be truthful, you're one of these strange people, all forums have them, who become orgasmic over knocking whatever it is that the majority posters are interested in.

I regard you and one or two others on here as sickos.