Trump: Send military to U.S.-Mexico border until wall built

[webfact]

Trump: Send military to U.S.-Mexico border until wall built

By Steve Holland

 

U.S. President Donald Trump signs a memorandum on intellectual property tariffs on high-tech goods from China, at the White House in Washington, DC, U.S., March 22, 2018. REUTERS/Jonathan Ernst

 

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President Donald Trump sharpened his anti-immigration rhetoric on Tuesday, saying he wants to deploy U.S. military forces to the Mexican border to stop illegal immigrants until his long-promised wall is built and "proper security" is in place.

 

His comments, following a threat to halt foreign aid to Honduras and other countries unless they stopped a "caravan" of Central Americans headed to the United States, immediately raised questions about troop deployment on U.S. soil.

 

Trump called using the military at the southern border "a big step." He met on Tuesday with U.S. Defense Secretary James Mattis and others to discuss the idea.

 

"Until we can have a wall and proper security we’re going to be guarding our border with the military," Trump told reporters at the White House, lamenting what he called "horrible" U.S. laws that left the southern border poorly protected.

 

After 14 months in office, Trump still hammers regularly on an anti-immigration theme that helped to energize conservative Republican voters who helped him win the presidency in the 2016 election. Trump took a hard line on illegal immigration during the campaign and has also sought to curtail legal immigration.

 

Trump's efforts have failed to produce a deal on immigration or funding a border wall in the Republican-led Congress and no major legislation was expected before November's congressional elections.

 

Trump gave no details on the size or mission of a military border deployment. The Posse Comitatus Act, a federal law, prohibits using the military for civilian law enforcement duties on U.S. soil unless authorized by Congress.

 

But the military can provide support services to law enforcement and has done so on occasion since the 1980s.

 

Under Republican President George W. Bush, National Guard forces were used between 2006 and 2008 for border-related intelligence analysis, but had no direct law enforcement role.

 

In 2010, President Barack Obama sent some National Guard troops to the U.S.-Mexican border to provide intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance support to U.S. Border Patrol agents.

 

Some specific statutes authorize the president to deploy troops within the United States for riot control or relief efforts after natural disasters, such as hurricanes and floods.

 

"The details really matter here," said Stephen Vladeck, a professor at the University of Texas School of Law.

 

"The real question is going to be if the president is serious about this, what kind of legal arguments do we get out of the White House and the Pentagon for such a deployment."

 

A senior Republican aide in the U.S. House of Representatives said key lawmakers had not been briefed on the White House plan. The aide said there was no indication that a specific plan had even been formulated yet.

 

Geronimo Gutierrez, Mexico's ambassador in Washington, said he had spoken to U.S. Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen about Trump's remarks on the border and that Mexico had formally asked the U.S. government to clarify them.

 

"It's certainly not something that the Mexican government welcomes," Gutierrez told CNN.

 

At a campaign rally, Mexican leftist Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador, who is leading most opinion polls by double digits before the July 1 presidential election, said that if the U.S. government militarizes the border, thousands of his supporters would protest by forming a "big human chain of Mexicans for peace."

 

NAFTA, CARAVAN

 

Trump has railed in recent days against more than 1,200 Central American migrants journeying from the Mexico-Guatemala border toward the United States.

 

He has also repeated threats to derail the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) if they are not stopped.

 

In a Twitter post earlier on Tuesday, Trump said the caravan "heading to our 'Weak Laws' Border, had better be stopped before it gets there.

 

Cash cow NAFTA is in play, as is foreign aid to Honduras and the countries that allow this to happen. Congress MUST ACT NOW!" Congress is on vacation until next week.

 

Mexican officials intensified efforts to process the dwindling "caravan" and determine whether they had the right to stay in Mexico or sent back to their countries of origin. Such "caravans" of mostly Central Americans, including many escaping violence in Honduras, have occurred annually since 2010 to draw attention to the plight of such migrants.

 

Trump said he asked Mexico to stop the caravan and he thought Mexican officials were having some success. "As of 12 minutes ago, it was all being broken up," he said.

 

Some members of Congress said they were uncomfortable with the idea of using the military at the border.

 

Democratic Senator Brian Schatz said Trump should have to seek approval from Congress for any such troop deployment. "We should put that new law to a vote in the Senate," he said on Twitter. “I predict fewer than 20 votes."

 

Representative Francis Rooney, a Republican member of the House Foreign Affairs Committee, said there was a risk of increased violence.

"These people should be stopped at the border and vetted out, just the normal process, and we should have plenty of agents down there to do that," Rooney told CNN.

 

(Reporting by Steve Holland; Additional reporting by Susan Heavey, Makini Brice, Amanda Becker, Richard Cowan and Phil Stewart in Washington; Karen Freifeld in New York and the Mexico City newsroom; Writing by John Whitesides; Editing by Kevin Drawbaugh and Grant McCool)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2018-04-04

[sirineou]

Why dont he get the Mexican army to do it that way Mexico can pay for it!

 

Posse Comitatus

[Samui Bodoh]

43 minutes ago, webfact said:

"The details really matter here," said Stephen Vladeck, a professor at the University of Texas School of Law.

 

"The real question is going to be if the president is serious about this, what kind of legal arguments do we get out of the White House and the Pentagon for such a deployment."

 

A senior Republican aide in the U.S. House of Representatives said key lawmakers had not been briefed on the White House plan. The aide said there was no indication that a specific plan had even been formulated yet.

One has to assume, at least for the moment, that this is another case where there is no point taking the word of the US President seriously; that is a sad commentary, but if there are no plans then this is simply more noise.

 

Is the US going to militarize the US-Mexico border? I doubt it as I doubt whether there is support for this in Congress or the military.

 

The US really needs to be careful here. Yes, the US is a much bigger, much more powerful nation than Mexico, but to date things have been quite easy as the Mexican President has been quite accommodating to the US.  If Obrador wins the election and rallies the Mexican people behind a policy of standing up to Trump, then the US is going to have MANY MANY problems. What happens if Mexico lets it be known that it won't try to stop anyone from crossing its territory to get to the US? Think 'surge'! Mexico, even though it is the weaker of the two countries, can cause a great deal of grief to the US, and based on how Trump has treated Mexico to date, I suspect that there would be a lot of support for a Mexican leader who says" Up Yours, Yankee!"

 

[sirineou]

An other half baked Trump idea, IMO

Enforcement of immigration laws  is a law enforcement activity   and the army is prohibited from law enforcement with in the USA under the  Posse Comitatus Act. The Act does not explicitly cover the Navy so perhaps a case can be made for using the Marines , and it does not cover the National Guard   so perhaps each state can use their National Guard.

But I fail to see what the advantage would be, other than circumventing the appropriations system. 

Anyway, good luck with any of it happening, such a move will be mired in legal challenges,by the time they are resolved, Trump's presidency will be another unfortunate historical footnote.  

 

 

 

[Ks45672]

48 minutes ago, Samui Bodoh said:

One has to assume, at least for the moment, that this is another case where there is no point taking the word of the US President seriously; that is a sad commentary, but if there are no plans then this is simply more noise.

 

Is the US going to militarize the US-Mexico border? I doubt it as I doubt whether there is support for this in Congress or the military.

 

The US really needs to be careful here. Yes, the US is a much bigger, much more powerful nation than Mexico, but to date things have been quite easy as the Mexican President has been quite accommodating to the US.  If Obrador wins the election and rallies the Mexican people behind a policy of standing up to Trump, then the US is going to have MANY MANY problems. What happens if Mexico lets it be known that it won't try to stop anyone from crossing its territory to get to the US? Think 'surge'! Mexico, even though it is the weaker of the two countries, can cause a great deal of grief to the US, and based on how Trump has treated Mexico to date, I suspect that there would be a lot of support for a Mexican leader who says" Up Yours, Yankee!"

 

A drone could kill anything that tries to cross the border from above the clouds

 

It would cost almost nothing compared to building a wall

[sirineou]

3 minutes ago, Ks45672 said:

A drone could kill anything that tries to cross the border from above the clouds

 

It would cost almost nothing compared to building a wall

 How about snipers killing suspected illegals? I think they would be cheaper than drones.

But if it has to be drones. maybe they can be like the ones in the terminator movies.

Edited April 4, 2018 by sirineou

[lovelomsak]

3 minutes ago, sirineou said:

 How about snipers killing suspected illegals? I think they would be cheaper than drones.

But if it has to be drones. maybe they can be like the ones in the terminator movies.

I like either one sounds good to me. These illegals are now trying to come to Canada. Do what ever it takes to keep out.

[jackh]

All Trump should do is call out troops from Camp Pendelton to preform "military training" exercises all along the border (with live ammo). A few months of this training will go a long way to clean up the illegal problem. 

Smart man that Trump!

[ChiangMaiLightning2143]

Good common sense. No real need for a wall.

Times to “take the gloves off” and give every Latin American embassy 90 days notice. The frontier is closed! Everything on two feet unders orders to shoot first and ask questions later. Come thru an airport or checkpoint or face the most capable and well funded Military in the world.

[smotherb]

3 hours ago, sirineou said:

Why dont he get the Mexican army to do it that way Mexico can pay for it!

 

Posse Comitatus

No, his plan is to have Mexico pay the US military budget.

[ChiangMaiLightning2143]

2 hours ago, sirineou said:

An other half baked Trump idea, IMO

Enforcement of immigration laws  is a law enforcement activity   and the army is prohibited from law enforcement with in the USA under the  Posse Comitatus Act. The Act does not explicitly cover the Navy so perhaps a case can be made for using the Marines , and it does not cover the National Guard   so perhaps each state can use their National Guard.

But I fail to see what the advantage would be, other than circumventing the appropriations system. 

Anyway, good luck with any of it happening, such a move will be mired in legal challenges,by the time they are resolved, Trump's presidency will be another unfortunate historical footnote.  

 

 

 

An incorrect interpretation, nothing in the posse comitatus act limits the executive authority of the POTUS to order the US Military to protect the US Border.This is a long-ago discredited left-wing trope often cited by those who promote open boarder policies.

Edited April 4, 2018 by ChiangMaiLightning2143

[wwest5829]

1 hour ago, sirineou said:

 How about snipers killing suspected illegals? I think they would be cheaper than drones.

But if it has to be drones. maybe they can be like the ones in the terminator movies.

That's the way I want my country to be known worldwide as an American citizen! (said tongue in cheek for those who do not recognize my sarcasm).

[smotherb]

18 minutes ago, ChiangMaiLightning2143 said:

Good common sense. No real need for a wall.

Times to “take the gloves off” and give every Latin American embassy 90 days notice. The frontier is closed! Everything on two feet unders orders to shoot first and ask questions later. Come thru an airport or checkpoint or face the most capable and well funded Military in the world.

Well, at least you see the ridiculousness of the wall. It seems to me, Americans are at fault for illegal immigration. Who hires these illegal immigrants? How do they survive in the US as illegal immigrants? If our laws would be enforced by all Americans and included no employment for anyone without the proper paperwork, no purchase or lease of anything which requires a title, a registration, or a license--including guns-- for anyone without the proper paperwork, and closing all other means of earning government or private money without the proper paperwork; the problem will be solved. However, like the gun laws, we simply cannot get all Americans to comply--which leads me back to my initial statement, " . . . Americans are at fault for illegal immigration."  

 

Of course, proper paperwork means proper processing by US Immigration.

[smotherb]

33 minutes ago, gogetem said:

No he didn't. Show me where he backtracked.

Mexico will pay for the wall for starters. The wall has yet to be built or even approved by congress. One thing Trump seems to have forgotten is that over 1,200 miles, about 2,000 kilometers, of the US-Mexico border are in the middle--the navigable part--of the Rio Grande river.

[spidermike007]

This man appears to be becoming increasingly unhinged, by the day. I think the stress of the job is getting to him, and he does not appear to be able to handle all of the disapproval. He is used to having people kiss his butt wherever he goes. Now, he is getting alot of pushback, and it appears to be making him downright nuts. If he was not insane to begin with, he is showing real signs of it now.

[gogetem]

42 minutes ago, smotherb said:

Mexico will pay for the wall for starters. The wall has yet to be built or even approved by congress. One thing Trump seems to have forgotten is that over 1,200 miles, about 2,000 kilometers, of the US-Mexico border are in the middle--the navigable part--of the Rio Grande river.

reference was to something else entirely.

[geriatrickid]

The USA has a legal and moral right to protect the integrity of its border and to control who enters the country.  Mexico has chosen not to  discourage the illegal border crossings, but its people  have certainly profited through the exploitation of the migrants either through  stealing, extortion or the guiding of the migrants. This is a nice money maker for the corrupt segment of Mexico.It's nice to blame Trump and the USA, but the Mexicans are in large part responsible for this. Trump has not managed the situation  well, although he has said some things that caught their attention.  There would not be an issue today if it had been dealt with 25 years ago. Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush, Obama all share responsibility.

[sirineou]

1 hour ago, ChiangMaiLightning2143 said:

An incorrect interpretation, nothing in the posse comitatus act limits the executive authority of the POTUS to order the US Military to protect the US Border.This is a long-ago discredited left-wing trope often cited by those who promote open boarder policies.

 To protect the border from military threat,   not to enforce immigration law .

  In  times of emergency Presidents have used the National guard to assist existing agencies, 

Both president Bush and President Obama used the National Guard when the Border patrol was overwhelmed. they assisted in non enforcement duties freeing border patrol for enforcement duties, I fail to see what the emergency is at the time, or what the military threat is. 

This is simply a political stunt to show his base, that he is doing something , and to circumvent the appropriations process of hiring more border patrol. Simply an attempt to shift border patrol costs to the military.  

1 hour ago, smotherb said:

Well, at least you see the ridiculousness of the wall. It seems to me, Americans are at fault for illegal immigration. Who hires these illegal immigrants? How do they survive in the US as illegal immigrants? If our laws would be enforced by all Americans and included no employment for anyone without the proper paperwork, no purchase or lease of anything which requires a title, a registration, or a license--including guns-- for anyone without the proper paperwork, and closing all other means of earning government or private money without the proper paperwork; the problem will be solved. However, like the gun laws, we simply cannot get all Americans to comply--which leads me back to my initial statement, " . . . Americans are at fault for illegal immigration."  

 

Of course, proper paperwork means proper processing by US Immigration.

You are absolutely right. 

   First, in many crimes there are two parties involved, the one commiting the crime and the one who commissions the crime , both are equally liable. For instance  the one who buys stolen property is just as liable as the one who steals it.

If illegal workers are stealing american jobs , those who knowingly  receiving the product of this illegal activity are equally as guilty.

  Second,  eliminate the demand for stolen radios , and watch the   breaking into cars and stealing radios stop.  Same,   eliminate the demand for cheap labor and you stop those who provide it. Everything else is just a song and dance routine. 

 Then they say, "the do jobs Americans don't want to do" 

NONCENCE

Jobs americans don't want to do for slave labor,

pay $20 per hr to pick fruit and weach Americans line up!!! 

But but "It will make fruit more expensive"   Sure it will,  this argument can be used for any product

.Americans making more money can afford more expensive product.Government receives more taxes, and Americans benefit  from better infrastructure and services.

Instead from chasing the bottom. let's race to the top!!

 

[sirineou]

4 hours ago, lovelomsak said:

I like either one sounds good to me. These illegals are now trying to come to Canada. Do what ever it takes to keep out.

Sure, and after the technology is perfected, we can sell it to other countries also. Perhaps it can be implemented to solve the visa overstay problem in Thailand. 

 

For those not following this litle diversion from the OP , this is in reference to the suggestion of using Drones to kill illegals crossing the border. 

Edited April 4, 2018 by sirineou

[ChiangMaiLightning2143]

Sirineo, I Wish the ACLU Good luck with those argument  SCOTUS. A threat is a threat.

Not just  a direct Military one. Remember 9-11? 

 

(R)Governors can be counted on but Liberal governors like Jerry Moonbeam will never deploy the Cal Natl. Guard. Some of the "No Hablo Ingles" "migrants are in fact arabs, africans, and international crims.

 

Trump will make his moves and the days of traipsing blithely across an open boarder should soon be over.

[ALLSEEINGEYE]

considering a vast majority of illegals enter the country legally by planes, buses etc. this is a complete waste of time and money. Just a way for Trump to pander to his base, nothing more.

[zydeco]

6 minutes ago, ALLSEEINGEYE said:

considering a vast majority of illegals enter the country legally by planes, buses etc. this is a complete waste of time and money. Just a way for Trump to pander to his base, nothing more.

If someone enters the country by plane, that means they must have a visa. They are screened before given the visa. They might overstay, but at least the US knows who they are. Those crashing the border are unscreened, unchecked, and unidentified. Interior enforcement is necessary, too. But so is a secure border check.

[ChiangMaiLightning2143]

And people with the correct passports who don't need visas anway to enter the US often posses Islamist ideologies.I read an academic paper online from a Major at Army War Fighting college that argued against walls and said the, for this reason,  Canada border was actually the greater threat due to their liberal immigration policies. 

 

More in depth screening should be required at first a secure frontier is essential.

[Silurian]

9 hours ago, webfact said:

"Until we can have a wall and proper security we’re going to be guarding our border with the military," Trump told reporters at the White House, lamenting what he called "horrible" U.S. laws that left the southern border poorly protected.

 

Woohoo! Let's do this! Maybe the WH should go one step further and declare the entire southern border an active war zone. Heck, why not! Setup a nice perimeter with 50 Cal machine guns strategically placed along the border. Anything that moves is shot without question. If it moves, it goes down! Heck, with AI and remote turrets, it doesn't even need to be manned. Imaging the cost savings of unmanned turrets just gunning down anything bigger than a raccoon. That should prevent any illegal (or even legal, ah who cares) crossings. Probably cheaper and more effective than an actual physical wall. Also, toss in a few armed drones for air strikes and video capture to please the masses. It would be like those tower defense video games in real time!

 

Though would probably have to reimburse those ranchers for the odd cattle that get shot up every now and then.

 

 

Edited April 4, 2018 by Silurian

[ChiangMaiLightning2143]

There won’t be any shoot first policies.(sorry)
The US Military is the the most professional and least corrupted institution in the country.
No cattle will be killed another reason why the wall is a bad idea. Nature. There arelarge migratory and far ranging species some endangered like wolves and jaguars and bears that would be negatively affected by a useless wall. Humans leave a broad footprint that can be easily detected by the US Military.

[MaxYakov]

11 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

One has to assume, at least for the moment, that this is another case where there is no point taking the word of the US President seriously; that is a sad commentary, but if there are no plans then this is simply more noise.

 

Is the US going to militarize the US-Mexico border? I doubt it as I doubt whether there is support for this in Congress or the military.

 

The US really needs to be careful here. Yes, the US is a much bigger, much more powerful nation than Mexico, but to date things have been quite easy as the Mexican President has been quite accommodating to the US.  If Obrador wins the election and rallies the Mexican people behind a policy of standing up to Trump, then the US is going to have MANY MANY problems. What happens if Mexico lets it be known that it won't try to stop anyone from crossing its territory to get to the US? Think 'surge'! Mexico, even though it is the weaker of the two countries, can cause a great deal of grief to the US, and based on how Trump has treated Mexico to date, I suspect that there would be a lot of support for a Mexican leader who says" Up Yours, Yankee!"

 

Errrr... wouldn't that be "Tuyo Yanqui"?

[alocacoc]

Finally a president who is doing his job. [emoji106]

Sent from a so called Smartphone using an App.

[metisdead]

Off topic posts and the replies have been removed. 

[riclag]

11 hours ago, sirineou said:

An other half baked Trump idea, IMO

Enforcement of immigration laws  is a law enforcement activity   and the army is prohibited from law enforcement with in the USA under the  Posse Comitatus Act. The Act does not explicitly cover the Navy so perhaps a case can be made for using the Marines , and it does not cover the National Guard   so perhaps each state can use their National Guard.

But I fail to see what the advantage would be, other than circumventing the appropriations system. 

Anyway, good luck with any of it happening, such a move will be mired in legal challenges,by the time they are resolved, Trump's presidency will be another unfortunate historical footnote.  

 

 

 

Military support of domestic law enforcement operations,

 Working with the Posse Comitatus Act:

"Despite the general proscription against using military intelligence in domestic support operations, Title 10, Section 371, U.S. Code does allow for the transfer of information acquired in the normal course of military operations to civilian law enforcement agencies. In other words, if military personnel observe suspicious activity during their normal duties, they may, as any concerned citizen, pass such information on to the appropriate law enforcement agency. In fact, the military is encouraged to provide law enforcement officials any information collected during the normal course of military operations that may be relevant to a criminal violation".

file:///C:/Users/Ricky/Desktop/442654.pdf

http://www.fbi.gov/publications/leb/2001/dec01leb.pdf

 

  "Any state governor or the President of the United States can call on the Guard in a moment’s notice". 

https://www.nationalguard.com/guard-faqs

 

Your correct to use," Enforcement of immigration laws  is a law enforcement activity   and the army is prohibited from law enforcement with in the USA under the  Posse Comitatus Act".

But you neglected to look for exceptions to the PCA , "Military support of domestic law enforcement operations". The National guard can be deployed by the President in a supported role to assist the civilian authority in surveillance and intelligence ,such as detecting suspicious activities  at the boarder perimeters and reporting it to the boarder patrol. Brilliant move IMOP.

Edited April 4, 2018 by riclag

[IAMHERE]

12 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

What happens if Mexico lets it be known that it won't try to stop anyone from crossing its territory to get to the US?

Already the Mexican Policy. In the news right now is a caravan of 1,000 Central American immigrant wannabees crossing Mexico to the US border. This caravan in some instances are being helped by Mexicans along their the trip to the US border.