Tractor with 4 hydraulic connectors?

[JungleBiker]

Do any of the the tractors commonly available/used in Thailand have 4 hydraulic connectors? And the tractor should be at least 90hp. 

The Kubotas here in Laos, coming from Thailand, don't have that many.

How about the old Fords? 

I guess not many farmers in this part of the world use equipment requiring more than one or 2 hydraulic pipes?   

[Outbackoz]

The older ford 7700 in Australia had 4 2 active, 2 returns. I had modified the hydraulics on one to put a set of forks on the front whilst still maintaining the hydraulics for implements (sadly this old girl took a beating during the floods in Queensland and we had to recover it from the river) 

[kickstart]

I think it will have to be a Ford,the old Ford 6600-6100 are only rated 78/79hp.

There are some  Ford 7610's about that are 97hp ,and some 8210's a 6 cylinder engine 110 hp ,they are a couple that drive past my house  often  but the engines do not  sound that healthy,  a 7610/8210 would cost you 800 000 baht plus ,they should have 4  spool valves fitted,and they are all 4 wheel drive .

The New Holland TS series ,Ford tractors with a New Holland badge, newer tractors most over here are 100 hp plus ,but you will be looking at 1 million baht plus most have 4  spool valves  fitted.

John Deer's should be ok ,but not seen a 90 hp ,most are smaller 70 hp ish 

Kubotas here in Thailand do not have any spool valves fitted as standered ,  if a loader is fitted some will be fitted but not 4 .

Again here in Thailand almost no one uses hydraulic  implements,so no connectors are fitted  ,all implements are on the 3 point linkage ,just mainly 3 and 7 disc ploughs, did see a 3 furrow reversible plough  on the back of a NH TS 110 ,but that was a very one off.

Like the small compact tractors nothing fitted  on the hydraulics ,just the arms,some farmers have fitted a small loader ,looking at the finished article it was a major pluming job to fit it all together.

[JungleBiker]

Thanks Kickstart. It's a pity the Kubotas don't enough spool valves/connectors because they seem to have the best service network here. I think getting spares/service for New Hollands where I am will be more of a challenge. 

[kickstart]

31 minutes ago, JungleBiker said:

Thanks Kickstart. It's a pity the Kubotas don't enough spool valves/connectors because they seem to have the best service network here. I think getting spares/service for New Hollands where I am will be more of a challenge. 

JB

    Where you are in Laos I would not have a New Holland as you said servicing I think would be difficult to say the least, I would stick with the old Fords, the newer 7 series should not be a problem, (and you could have an air con cab). easy to repair any big problems a trip to LOS , almost anywhere in Isan could help you .

Farmer Jo 

                 Could you fit spool valves to a Kubota?I would say you could, but would you have to use external control leavers,and not the ones in the cab?

[JungleBiker]

By the way, there is a list of tractors available in Thailand with prices here: http://www.108engine.com/tractors/Tractor_Raka3.asp#.WsSdkSNL3OQ

(see other linked pages for smaller hp tractors)

But they don't say how many hydraulic valves they have and the specs of tractors in Thailand are not the same as the same models in other countries. 

 

Thanks Kickstart for the recommendation for the newer 7 series Fords. So now my next question is, where is a good place to buy them? (I mean in Thailand). And what is a ballpark price for a decent one? 

 

Re fitting a Kubota - if the added levers were not in the cab where would they be? 

 

 

 

 

[Outbackoz]

There are are few bigger Ford tractors available 90 hp net + in Thailand on the second hand market. They are easy to service, work on and maintain. I had converted a spool valve assy from an old forklift on my 7700 for forks/tilt/ sideshift and mast. I think Kubota can supply after market spool valve assy/connectors for a price.  There are kits available online but the quality is unknown. If I may ask what do you plan to use the hydraulics for?

 

 

https://www.machinio.com/listings/23776710-1981-ford-7700-in-chon-buri-thailand

[farmerjo]

40 minutes ago, kickstart said:

JB

    Where you are in Laos I would not have a New Holland as you said servicing I think would be difficult to say the least, I would stick with the old Fords, the newer 7 series should not be a problem, (and you could have an air con cab). easy to repair any big problems a trip to LOS , almost anywhere in Isan could help you .

Farmer Jo 

                 Could you fit spool valves to a Kubota?I would say you could, but would you have to use external control leavers,and not the ones in the cab?

You could set up an independent system with a pump off the PTO.

Is this for your compost turner JB?

[Outbackoz]

                 Could you fit spool valves to a Kubota?I would say you could, but would you have to use external control leavers,and not the ones in the cab?

For cab controls you may be able add a post to attach actuating levers to and run Bowden cables to your spool valve assy.

[JungleBiker]

This is for our new lime/fertiliser spreader, recently arrived from USA. It is trailed and does not use the PTO, so FJ do you think there would be enough space to fit a pump on the PTO? The spreader needs a flow of 60 litres/minute. Are PTO-mounted pumps easy to find in Thailand or would I have to import from wherever?  

Thanks OBO for the link. It's reassuring to know that Fords are easy to work on. I need to google Bowden cables. 

 

[farmerjo]

3 hours ago, JungleBiker said:

This is for our new lime/fertiliser spreader, recently arrived from USA. It is trailed and does not use the PTO, so FJ do you think there would be enough space to fit a pump on the PTO? The spreader needs a flow of 60 litres/minute. Are PTO-mounted pumps easy to find in Thailand or would I have to import from wherever?  

Thanks OBO for the link. It's reassuring to know that Fords are easy to work on. I need to google Bowden cables. 

 

I presume the hydraulics are for motors on the spinners,forget the hydraulics.You are reasonably isolated in Laos.

Sounds rough on a new machine but i would convert them to belt drive,driven by a 20 horsepower petrol engine.

I used to run 2 x 10 ton Marshall Multispreaders(truck mounted) and never had any problems with the belt system.

I did used to carry a hand held RPM meter as different materials require different spinner speeds.

This modification would not take long and would be my preference unless you bought a new tractor but then you can't swap to another if required.

That particular brand may have the belt drive option,if not you require

4 x pulleys and a long shaft with 4 x bearings that goes from back of machine to front where the motor is mounted(i used a boat plastic petrol tank next to motor)and 3 x v-belts,one for the spinners,two for motor drive.

You can also make this PTO drive instead of the motor but hard to know the condition of PTO on second hand tractor unless you can test with a good load before purchasing.

 

 

 

 

Edited April 5, 2018 by farmerjo

[kickstart]

1 hour ago, farmerjo said:

I presume the hydraulics are for motors on the spinners,forget the hydraulics.You are reasonably isolated in Laos.

Sounds rough on a new machine but i would convert them to belt drive,driven by a 20 horsepower petrol engine.

I used to run 2 x 10 ton Marshall Multispreaders(truck mounted) and never had any problems with the belt system.

I did used to carry a hand held RPM meter as different materials require different spinner speeds.

This modification would not take long and would be my preference unless you bought a new tractor but then you can't swap to another if required.

That particular brand may have the belt drive option,if not you require

4 x pulleys and a long shaft with 4 x bearings that goes from back of machine to front where the motor is mounted(i used a boat plastic petrol tank next to motor)and 3 x v-belts,one for the spinners,two for motor drive.

 

 

 

 

FJ

    With your past experience  I can see it worked for you, but for JB , a 20hp petrol engine, a fair lump and finding one, would a 15hp Kubota diesel work, it would have the torque, and cheaper to run, and belts do wear.

I would go for a PTO driven  hydraulic pump, once fitted  it should be almost maintenance free, have seen a hydraulic pump from a 6 wheeled truck  used on a farm  tipping trailer, again PTO driven , the trailer being an old 6 wheeled truck as well , worked well 

  

[Outbackoz]

SA few reasonable suggestions so far. If whatever tractor you end up with  has an available hydraulic fluid delivery capacity of greater than your requirement for the spreader it may be worthwhile to consider tapping into the pressure side of the hydraulics if the tractor is not fitted with hydraulic connectors and return drain ( most tractors that I have worked on in Aust  generally have an available bung for this)   For simplicity you can use a hydraulic gate valve on the "live" side which will allow you to vary the rpm  on your speader hydraulic motor. You can plumb this into the cab if fitted or alternatively have it within easy reach from your seat mounted on the rear. Alternatively there are pto driven hydraulic pumps available. However you would also be wise to fit a filter and reservoir if you decided to go down this road.

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Brand-New-Prince-Manufacturing-HC-PTO-1A-PTO-Hydraulic-Pump/263439286794?_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D44040%26meid%3De69b7181f02942b3b217dae3a3fa98ba%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D282127174727%26itm%3D263439286794&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851

[farmerjo]

I was just trying to keep it simple for JB.

I used to do over 100,000 acres a year so have experience in this field.

Not sure about a diesel engine KS,Marshall use a 20 horsepower Kohler petrol engine,high revs.

If engine drive is not suitable PTO drive to belts would be next preference. 

Without the hydraulic spinners it would give more flexibilty to tractor choice and horsepower as well.Also when the worker disconnects the draw bar pin and forgets the hoses,you will be off looking for spares. 

Not sure what brand and size spreader he has purchased but you load to the conditions,not size of the hopper.

He will require a draw bar arrangement to pull it.

It may need air required to operate the ground drive wheel and some electric cables to run a monitor or 12 volt compressor for a foam marker.(think JB did mention a guidance system rather than foam)   

What did you end up with JB?

Edited April 5, 2018 by farmerjo

[kickstart]

JB said his spreader needs a hydraulic pump rated at 60 lt/ min, a Ford 7610 pump is rated at 68.9 lt/min, not a lot in it but it should work .

[farmerjo]

Here is a Thai bolt on draw bar i got for my 6610.(ford)

Not sure what it is rated at but do see 6600's towing 8 ton sugar trailers with them.

 

 

[talahtnut]

Everything seems well covered here, I would only add that whatever tractor

you go for, it might be an idea to avoid the newer electronically controlled

machines, the older stuff can be owner fixed with a spanner..or hammer.

[farmerjo]

I found an old thread with model JB was after.Stolzfus spreaders CU-40.

2 ports required,one for spinners and the other is for the ground wheel drive.

5250 kg's loaded.

70" wheel centres(ford 6610 is 65")

 

[kickstart]

5 hours ago, farmerjo said:

Here is a Thai bolt on draw bar i got for my 6610.(ford)

Not sure what it is rated at but do see 6600's towing 8 ton sugar trailers with them.

 

 

Is that homemade? our local tractor dealer sells a bigger version same type of mounting  for a 6600/6610 around here 15 ton of cane is hauled plus trailer about 20 ton in all . 

[farmerjo]

18 minutes ago, kickstart said:

Is that homemade? our local tractor dealer sells a bigger version same type of mounting  for a 6600/6610 around here 15 ton of cane is hauled plus trailer about 20 ton in all . 

Bought from one of the biggest ag shops in town.

Six 1" bolts holding it on.

I dread the day where something disagrees with it and it rips the arse out of a rear axle.

Edited April 5, 2018 by farmerjo

[farmerjo]

22 hours ago, kickstart said:

Is that homemade? our local tractor dealer sells a bigger version same type of mounting  for a 6600/6610 around here 15 ton of cane is hauled plus trailer about 20 ton in all . 

Just to add i pretty sure when it's on(fitted),it interferes with the operation of the PTO shaft.

[JungleBiker]

Thanks guys for all the suggestions, though I have to say, I'm really not happy about the idea of discarding the beautiful hydraulic motors on a brand new spreader! 

 

Before I discovered that local Kubota's don't have enough valves, I did already have in my budget a plan to buy a new Kubota. Up until now we have been hiring local tractor guys to do jobs like discing. 

 

My preference now is to go ahead with getting a new Kubota and tell the dealer I want full set of valves as found on overseas versions of the same model. I would be surprised if Kubota Siam or one of their dealers can't deliver.

 

Getting the above will take a while, so in the meantime, I'll hire local villagers to spread the fertiliser by hand (over 300 rai).  

 

  

[talahtnut]

6 minutes ago, JungleBiker said:

Thanks guys for all the suggestions, though I have to say, I'm really not happy about the idea of discarding the beautiful hydraulic motors on a brand new spreader! 

 

Before I discovered that local Kubota's don't have enough valves, I did already have in my budget a plan to buy a new Kubota. Up until now we have been hiring local tractor guys to do jobs like discing. 

 

My preference now is to go ahead with getting a new Kubota and tell the dealer I want full set of valves as found on overseas versions of the same model. I would be surprised if Kubota Siam or one of their dealers can't deliver.

 

Getting the above will take a while, so in the meantime, I'll hire local villagers to spread the fertiliser by hand (over 300 rai).  

 

  

Might be worth contacting Kubota to check if your local type

Kubota can be converted to a 4 system,  Or perhaps fix another

pump on the front of the crankshaft. Bit of a faff but so useful.

[kickstart]

JB

     Just had a look at Kubota uk .there M7001 modal has an 80 lt hydraulic pump.

It has spool valves fitted as standard,but a 4th valve is an option.

 They are available,I know this a 70 hp modal, and you need a 90 hp the spec should be the same.

So as you said it is a  case of getting the dealer to find one for you.

 

[kickstart]

FJ

Outside our local sugar mill he will have the best part of 20 ton on board, with that bigger version of your drawbar.

Call  it splitting hairs, about the pto shaft catching the drawbar, like it has been said on this thread, most Ford tractors are used either for a 3 disc or a 7 disc plough or towing a trailer, very few do any pto work, a few are spreading manure at this time  ,and that is about it .

[farmerjo]

JB,machine should have come with one of these,if not you will need one unless it has load cells fitted.

https://barndoorag.com/fertilizer-density-scale-fe8000/

[JungleBiker]

Thanks FJ, That looks very handy. No, the spreader doesn't have one of those or any load cells. But it does have instructions in the manual about measuring the density of materials to work out application rates. I do have a small laboratory with measuring flasks (for volume) and digital scales, so I think I can sort it out. 

 

I did see that the UK, South African, German and Australian versions of the Kubota I'm looking at have 2 spool valves (4 ports) as standard with an option for a 3rd. So I will try to get one with 3 spool valves (6 ports) to be on the safe side.  

 

Well in the past few days I have learnt a few things about tractor hydraulics that I didn't know before. And now I know what Bowden cables are. I have them on my bicycles but I didn't know before what they were called! I just called the "cables". 

 

Thanks everyone. 

JB

 

 

 

[talahtnut]

17 hours ago, JungleBiker said:

Thanks guys for all the suggestions, though I have to say, I'm really not happy about the idea of discarding the beautiful hydraulic motors on a brand new spreader! 

 

Before I discovered that local Kubota's don't have enough valves, I did already have in my budget a plan to buy a new Kubota. Up until now we have been hiring local tractor guys to do jobs like discing. 

 

My preference now is to go ahead with getting a new Kubota and tell the dealer I want full set of valves as found on overseas versions of the same model. I would be surprised if Kubota Siam or one of their dealers can't deliver.

 

Getting the above will take a while, so in the meantime, I'll hire local villagers to spread the fertiliser by hand (over 300 rai).  

 

  

I dont know what area you are in, but am interested to know if

you have a farming community where you can share costly

machinery. 

Another point of interest you raised, is manual labour, which

has many environmental and social advantages, something

future farming methods must consider.

 

 

[JungleBiker]

This is a New Holland 7740 not far from where I am. Photos taken today. I had noticed it a long time ago but I had never been interested to see how many spool valves it had. I'm not sure if it has 2 or 3? Perhaps someone can tell us.

 

Pity it's lacking an engine.

 

The tyres look better than the ones on Talahtnut's flood stricken Ford in Oz.

 

I bet the previous owners never thought their tractor would end up in Laos. I will try to make contact with them via Ernest Doe & Sons (name on the bottom of the number plate). 

 

I wonder what it would take to get it working again? I guess it would be better to start off with a complete tractor rather than half of one. 

[JungleBiker]

4 hours ago, talahtnut said:

I dont know what area you are in, but am interested to know if

you have a farming community where you can share costly

machinery. 

Not sure about sharing but I'm hoping other farms will be interested to hire our spreader once we have it up and running. And we are hiring tractors and drivers with discs, bulldozers, etc.