Russian bid for joint inquiry into England spy poisoning fails

[webfact]

Russian bid for joint inquiry into England spy poisoning fails

By Anthony Deutsch

 

A police officer guards a cordoned off area in the city centre where former Russian intelligence officer Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia were found poisoned, in Salisbury, Britain, April 3, 2018. REUTERS/Hannah McKay

 

THE HAGUE (Reuters) - Russia's call for a joint inquiry to be held into the poisoning of a former Russian double agent in England failed on Wednesday when it was outvoted 15-6 at a meeting of the global chemical weapons watchdog.

 

Russia had called an emergency meeting of the decision-making executive of the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons to counter accusations by Britain that it was behind the March 4 nerve agent poisoning of Sergei Skripal and his daughter in Salisbury, England.

 

UK's security services believe they have pinpointed the location of Russian laboratory that manufactured the nerve agent Novichok used in Salisbury attack, The Times reported on Wednesday. Britain was aware of the existence of the site before March 4, the report said.

 

It cited an unidentified security source as saying they have a "high degree of confidence in the location".

 

Britain's charges of Russian involvement, strongly denied by Moscow, have triggered mass expulsions of diplomats by both Britain's allies in the West, including the United States, and similar retaliatory action by Russia.

 

When the meeting convened on Wednesday, Russia proposed a joint investigation into the poisoning as it was not invited to participate in an independent probe being carried out by the OPCW at Britain's request, results of which are due next week.

 

Britain called the Russian proposal for a joint investigation a "perverse" attempt to escape blame for the poisoning of the Skripals, and part of a disinformation campaign mounted by Moscow.

 

Russia's proposal in the end drew support from China, Azerbaijan, Sudan, Algeria and Iran, a source told Reuters, with U.S. and European members voting against the plan. There were 17 abstentions among members of the organisation's 41-member council, only 38 of whose members were present and eligible to vote on Wednesday.

 

Russia's ambassador to the OPCW, Aleksander Shulgin, confirmed that the vote had been lost.

 

RUSSIA CALL TO SECURITY COUNCIL

 

Separately on Wednesday, Russia requested a public meeting of the United Nations Security Council on April 5 to discuss the British accusations against Moscow, Russian U.N. Ambassador Vassily Nebenzia said.

 

British Foreign Minister Boris Johnson welcomed Russia's defeat.

 

"Russia has had one goal in mind since the attempted murders on UK soil through the use of a military-grade chemical weapon - to obscure the truth and confuse the public," he said in a statement.

 

"The international community has yet again seen through these tactics and robustly defeated Russia’s attempts today to derail the proper international process."

 

The closed-door OPCW meeting itself triggered sharp verbal exchanges between the Britain and Russia's representatives.

 

In a tweet, the British delegation called Moscow's idea for a joint investigation "a diversionary tactic, and yet more disinformation designed to evade the questions the Russians authorities must answer".

 

John Foggo, Britain's acting envoy, said Russian assertions that the attack may have been carried out by Britain, the United States or Sweden were "shameless, preposterous statements".

 

Shulgin, at a news conference, said the vote showed more than half of the OPCW's members had "refused to associate themselves with the West's point of view" - referring to those who voted in favour of Russia's proposal or abstained.

 

He repeated that Russia had had nothing to do with the attack on the Skripals, which he said looked like "a terrorist attack."

 

Britain's remarks were "a dirty flow of complete lies ... outright Russia-phobia," he said.

 

Russian President Vladimir Putin said on Tuesday the OPCW should draw a line under a case that has triggered the worst crisis in East-West relations since the Cold War.

 

Scientists at the Porton Down biological and chemical weapons laboratory in England have concluded that the toxin was among a category of Soviet-era nerve agents called Novichok, though could not yet determine whether it was made in Russia.

 

TAKING SAMPLES

 

The OPCW, which oversees the 1997 Chemical Weapons Convention, has taken samples from the site of the Salisbury attack and is expected to provide results from testing at two designated laboratories next week.

 

Shulgin said earlier that if Moscow was prevented from taking part in the testing of the Salisbury toxin samples, it would reject the outcome of the OPCW research.

 

Russia's request to open a parallel, joint Russian-British inquiry has been portrayed by Western powers as an attempt to undermine the investigation by OPCW scientists.

 

The EU said it was very concerned Moscow was considering rejecting the OPCW findings.

 

Instead of cooperating with the OPCW, Russia had unleashed "a flood of insinuations targeting EU member states ... This is completely unacceptable," an EU statement read to the council session said.

 

Skripal, 66, a former Russian military intelligence officer who betrayed scores of Russian agents to Britain and was exchanged in a Russia-West spy swap, remains in a critical but stable condition. His daughter, Yulia, 33, has shown signs of improvement.

 

(Reporting by Anthony Deutsch in The Hague; Additional reporting by Toby Sterling in Amsterdam and William Schomberg in London; editing by Richard Balmforth and Grant McCool)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2018-04-05

[bartender100]

The international communities are teaching Russia a lesson for its involvement in Syria against most western countries policies , sorry for the gramma 

[evadgib]

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/protecting-victims-of-chemical-weapons-attacks-in-syria-salisbury-and-internationally

 

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/foreign-secretary-boris-johnson-responds-to-defeat-of-russias-proposals-at-opcw

[mlmcleod]

I think that the international community has wised up to the Russian tactic of participating so they can disseminate conspiracy theories to deflect any blame that might accrue.  The Ukraine airliner investigation is the prime example of obfuscation while every salient piece of evidence pointed directly to the Russian backed rebel forces there.  

 

 

Edited April 5, 2018 by metisdead
Bold font removed.

[FritsSikkink]

^^^^^

Where is the proof they actually did something?

[CharlesSwann]

Would have been far more useful to let them join in the investigation - their tactics would have been interesting and perhaps only help reveal what they are hiding. Even murderers are allowed a defence.

 

In any case, everyone is assuming that Putin personally micromanaged this. Not sure that's necessarily the case. Firebrand operatives?

[boomerangutang]

16 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

Where is the proof they actually did something?

The poisoned man was a Russian spy who defected and turned. Not even Russia officials dispute that. ex-KGB boss Putin has publicly declared that any spy who turns, is worthy of being killed.  Russian officials have done these sorts of things before: such as the murder of an ex-Russian agent on a London bridge.  Plus there's chemical analysis pointing at the Russkies.   1+1+1+1=4   connect the dots.

[boomerangutang]

It brings to mind OJ saying he would like to join the investigation into who murdered his wife and her boyfriend.  Of course, nothing ensued, and it was never broached again.  

 

It would be like Trump announcing he wants an investigation into whether Stormy was paid hush money, .....by whom and why.

[FritsSikkink]

6 minutes ago, boomerangutang said:

The poisoned man was a Russian spy who defected and turned. Not even Russia officials dispute that. ex-KGB boss Putin has publicly declared that any spy who turns, is worthy of being killed.  Russian officials have done these sorts of things before: such as the murder of an ex-Russian agent on a London bridge.  Plus there's chemical analysis pointing at the Russkies.   1+1+1+1=4   connect the dots.

He was in jail in Russia and got released, do the math again.

[Topdoc]

Here's a pretty good update of the situation from Channel 4 News:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIHxEw6J2GY

[Ali S]

I think if Russia wanted to kill Skripal, they could use handgun or some cianides )

Britain authorities are trying to convince people that russian special services are so dumb to use chemical weapon made in Russia? )

It's sad to see many people are so stupid to believe in this..

[rockingrobin]

59 minutes ago, boomerangutang said:

The poisoned man was a Russian spy who defected and turned. Not even Russia officials dispute that. ex-KGB boss Putin has publicly declared that any spy who turns, is worthy of being killed.  Russian officials have done these sorts of things before: such as the murder of an ex-Russian agent on a London bridge.  Plus there's chemical analysis pointing at the Russkies.   1+1+1+1=4   connect the dots.

The Putin public statement you refer to , was against the military officer who betrayed Anna Chapman and the ring of 10. Whilst making the statement Putin stated that the traitor had already been identified and assassin dispatched.

It also difficult to reconcile why Skripal was allegedly in regular contact with the Russian Embassy

[boomerangutang]

1 hour ago, FritsSikkink said:

He was in jail in Russia and got released, do the math again.

people get released from jail for various reasons.  In his case, it could have been an exchange for another prisoner or money or his time was up, or....?

 

1 hour ago, Ali S said:

I think if Russia wanted to kill Skripal, they could use handgun or some cianides )

Britain authorities are trying to convince people that russian special services are so dumb to use chemical weapon made in Russia? )

It's sad to see many people are so stupid to believe in this..

It's easier to catch a murderer who uses a gun, than one who murders with poison.  Russians are expert at killing with poison.

[rockingrobin]

3 minutes ago, boomerangutang said:

people get released from jail for various reasons.  In his case, it could have been an exchange for another prisoner or money or his time was up, or....?

 

It's easier to catch a murderer who uses a gun, than one who murders with poison.  Russians are expert at killing with poison.

Apparently not expert enough in this case

[FritsSikkink]

3 minutes ago, boomerangutang said:

people get released from jail for various reasons.  In his case, it could have been an exchange for another prisoner or money or his time was up, or....?

 

It's easier to catch a murderer who uses a gun, than one who murders with poison.  Russians are expert at killing with poison.

There is no proof at all:  

 

[tumama]

3 hours ago, mlmcleod said:

I think that the international community has wised up to the Russian tactic of participating so they can disseminate conspiracy theories to deflect any blame that might accrue. 

 

Actually no. This is a clear violation of international law which U.K is again blatantly violating. It shows it has no respect for the rule of law. That's a fact, regardless of your biased anti-russian opinions.

[tumama]

Anyone notice how Porton Down is just 12 km from Salisbury? Porton Down has already confirmed they had the nerve agent present at their site before the poisoning. Most likely the only place in the U.K where they did. And the ex spy just happen to live right next to it. What are the odds?

 

Could it be that he actually secretly worked at Porton Down. That he somehow contaminated himself, got sick, went home and accidentally contaminated his daughter as well? If so, perhaps they decided it would be to hard to cover up and they just decided to go all in and blame Russia for the whole thing.

 

That would explain why they lied about the origins of the nerve agent and why they refuse to follow international protocols. It also explains why the girl is recovering and the policeman is already fully recovered. 

Edited April 5, 2018 by tumama

[evadgib]

17 minutes ago, tumama said:

Anyone notice how Porton Down is just 12 km from Salisbury? Porton Down has already confirmed they had the nerve agent present at their site before the poisoning. Most likely the only place in the U.K where they did. And the ex spy just happen to live right next to it. What are the odds?

Its not quite as easy as going to the fridge for a beer!

[dunroaming]

Another fine mess you have got us into Mr Johnson (I would have said Stanley but that's his dad's name).  I honestly think that Russia is behind this but the way Boris tried to bullsh*t everyone  gives the Russians the opportunity to try to take the high ground.

[evadgib]

https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/statement-from-the-organisation-for-the-prohibition-of-chemical-weapons-on-the-salisbury-attack-4-april-2018

[midas]

The Russian Ambassador to the UK is holding a press conference right now and is very eloquently explaining to the British media that all Russia is asking for is transparency. What's the problem with that?

He is also doing a very good job of illustrating quite a few ways that the UK government has completely distorted the truth.

 

Edited April 5, 2018 by midas

[evadgib]

Russian TV has aired an alleged call from the daughter to a cousin:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-43652574

[Morch]

3 hours ago, midas said:

The Russian Ambassador to the UK is holding a press conference right now and is very eloquently explaining to the British media that all Russia is asking for is transparency. What's the problem with that?

He is also doing a very good job of illustrating quite a few ways that the UK government has completely distorted the truth.

 

 

Oh, a Russian Ambassador is going on about transparency.  How nice. Because transparency is just the thing Russia is well known for. And, of course, not a country that would ever distort the "truth".

[Morch]

10 hours ago, tumama said:

Anyone notice how Porton Down is just 12 km from Salisbury? Porton Down has already confirmed they had the nerve agent present at their site before the poisoning. Most likely the only place in the U.K where they did. And the ex spy just happen to live right next to it. What are the odds?

 

Could it be that he actually secretly worked at Porton Down. That he somehow contaminated himself, got sick, went home and accidentally contaminated his daughter as well? If so, perhaps they decided it would be to hard to cover up and they just decided to go all in and blame Russia for the whole thing.

 

That would explain why they lied about the origins of the nerve agent and why they refuse to follow international protocols. It also explains why the girl is recovering and the policeman is already fully recovered. 

 

 

Did Porton Down actually officially confirm that they had the nerve agent present at their site before the poisoning? As far as I recall, more like unconfirmed assumptions by commentators - could be wrong.

 

Quote

Could it be that he actually secretly worked at Porton Down. That he somehow contaminated himself, got sick, went home and accidentally contaminated his daughter as well? If so, perhaps they decided it would be to hard to cover up and they just decided to go all in and blame Russia for the whole thing.

 

Other than raising unfounded conspiracy theories based on nothing whatsoever (not even the first premise) - why would the UK government go through all this trouble (not to mention diplomatic issues) to cover up something of the sort?

 

 

[Morch]

11 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

There is no proof at all:  

 

 

Well so you say. But saying that, you're only referring to the analysis of the compound used. In almost all articles, stories and interviews, it is mentioned that this is one of the elements, not a sole one. The expectation that all investigation materials and related information will be fully divulged is bogus. This is not how things are done (anywhere in the world) when it comes to these sort of investigations.

[Basil B]

13 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

He was in jail in Russia and got released, do the math again.

It was a prisoner exchange, possibly Russia was worried that he still had some beans to spill...

 

Thing are getting hotter, what ever we have done Russia is really squirming, the are now running fake interviews with Ms Skripal

Quote

The UK Foreign Office says Ms Skripal, who is a Russian citizen, has not yet taken up Russia's offer of consular assistance.

The Russian embassy in London said last week that it was insisting on its right to see her after it emerged that she was conscious and talking.

Earlier on Thursday, Russian TV aired a recording of an alleged phone conversation between Ms Skripal and her cousin.

However, doubts have been cast on how authentic the recording is; the presenters of the programme said they had been unable to verify it and themselves had doubts about it.

  Best thing the UK could do is ask consular officials from three countries who are not puppets of the UK or Russia to visit her and verify that she is:

• Getting better
• Getting the best treatment
• Is aware she can ask to see a representative of the Russian Consulate if she wishes
• There is coercion being used to make her refuse visits by the Russian Consulate 

 

[Basil B]

11 hours ago, tumama said:

Anyone notice how Porton Down is just 12 km from Salisbury? Porton Down has already confirmed they had the nerve agent present at their site before the poisoning. Most likely the only place in the U.K where they did. And the ex spy just happen to live right next to it. What are the odds?

 

Could it be that he actually secretly worked at Porton Down. That he somehow contaminated himself, got sick, went home and accidentally contaminated his daughter as well? If so, perhaps they decided it would be to hard to cover up and they just decided to go all in and blame Russia for the whole thing.

 

That would explain why they lied about the origins of the nerve agent and why they refuse to follow international protocols. It also explains why the girl is recovering and the policeman is already fully recovered. 

They are too busy making pigs that can fly...

 

[janclaes47]

15 minutes ago, Basil B said:

14 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

He was in jail in Russia and got released, do the math again.

It was a prisoner exchange, possibly Russia was worried that he still had some beans to spill...

 

He was in prison in Russia for 6 years, and I don't think the prisoner exchange was decided overnight, so Russia had plenty of time to get rid of all the beans.

[Banana7]

Russia has lied to the world and the United Nations about many critical events throughout history most notably the Cuban missile crisis, and the most recently the removal of all chemical weapons in Syria.

 

Russian involvement is not needed. If they are involved in the secondary or subsequent analysis, they'll just refute the evidence and claim everyone else's analysis is false. As the British said, Russia  is trying to "obscure the truth".

 

History just keeps repeating itself.

Edited April 5, 2018 by Banana7

[evadgib]

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/we-cannot-ignore-what-has-happened-in-salisbury