Russian envoy seeks meeting with Britain's Johnson over poisoning

[rooster59]

Russian envoy seeks meeting with Britain's Johnson over poisoning

 

A coat of arms is seen on a gate outside of the Russian embassy in London, Britain, March 16, 2018. REUTERS/Toby Melville

 

MOSCOW (Reuters) - The Russian embassy in London has sent a request for a meeting of its envoy with British foreign minister Boris Johnson to discuss the case of an ex-Russian spy and his daughter poisoned in Salisbury, the RIA news agency reported on Saturday.

 

"We hope for a constructive response from the British side and are counting on such a meeting in the very nearest future," the agency cited a spokesman for the Russian embassy saying.

 

The Foreign Office confirmed it had received the request for ambassador Alexander Yakovenko to meet Johnson, but called the request a diversionary tactic.

 

"We will be responding in due course," it said in a statement.

 

Relations between Russia and Britain have plunged to their lowest for decades since former Russian spy Sergei Skripal, 66, and his daughter Yulia, 33, were found slumped unconscious on a bench in Salisbury last month.

 

Both were found to be suffering from the effects of a nerve agent but are now recovering in hospital.

 

Britain blamed Russia for the poisoning and asked it to explain what happened but Russia denies any involvement and has suggested Britain itself carried out the attack to stoke anti-Russian hysteria.

 

Both have subsequently accused each other of trying to deceive the world with an array of claims, counter-claims and threats.

 

At a session of the executive of the global chemical weapons watchdog earlier this week, Russia called for a joint inquiry into the poisoning of the Skripals but lost a vote on the motion.

 

The two then swapped insults at the United Nations Security Council on Thursday where Russia warned Britain it was "playing with fire" by accusing Moscow.

 

Saturday's Foreign Office statement said: "It’s over three weeks since we asked Russia to engage constructively and answer a number of questions relating to the attempted assassinations of Mr Skripal and his daughter.

 

"Now, after failing in their attempts in the UN and international chemical weapons watchdog this week and with the victims’ condition improving, they seem to be pursuing a different diversionary tactic."

 

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2018-04-08

[sawadee1947]

7 hours ago, rooster59 said:

At a session of the executive of the global chemical weapons watchdog earlier this week, Russia called for a joint inquiry into the poisoning of the Skripals but lost a vote on the motion.

Up to now there is NO evidence that Russia is involved (or did I miss something?) And UK did not follow the request.

So for me it's still "in dubio pro reo" until UK comes with proofs and evidence

[Basil B]

34 minutes ago, sawadee1947 said:

Up to now there is NO evidence that Russia is involved (or did I miss something?) And UK did not follow the request.

So for me it's still "in dubio pro reo" until UK comes with proofs and evidence

We have not made public evidence...

 

That is not to say there is none, and I see many reasons for not saying what we know if it is to protect the sources, if information came from a double agent we could be putting them at risk.

 

[Srikcir]

8 hours ago, rooster59 said:

"It’s over three weeks since we asked Russia to engage constructively and answer a number of questions relating to the attempted assassinations of Mr Skripal and his daughter.

Typical Soviet (Putin's Russia behaves as such) KGB/FSS playbook. Avoid all signs of weakness or blame by refusing engagement but blame all others for unfair treatment. And demand dialog - the 360^o diversion.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Not to mention, Russia has a track record at home and abroad of killing people it deems domestic enemies, including the fatal polonium poisoning of Alexander Livinenko by Russian agents in the UK in 2006, which a UK public inquiry found was likely done at the orders of Putin.

 

Yes, by all means, follow the evidence in the current case. But let's not fool ourselves over the kinds of things Russia does and all the many reasons the Russian government under Putin would like to see Skripal dead. Me thinks Russia doth protest too much!

 

When their mode is to deny everything every time, their credibility on these kinds of matters is pretty much at zero.  It worked before with Litvinenko and very little price to pay for Russia over that case, so why should Putin think doing away with Skripal would be any different.

 

Meanwhile, a couple of news report updates:

An overview of what's known:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/apr/04/salisbury-attack-what-has-the-uk-said-and-what-evidence-does-it-have

 

Details on a prior nerve agent killing:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/apr/06/uk-us-case-file-russian-nerve-agent-shikhany-spy-poisoning

 

Edited April 8, 2018 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Baerboxer]

1 hour ago, sawadee1947 said:

Up to now there is NO evidence that Russia is involved (or did I miss something?) And UK did not follow the request.

So for me it's still "in dubio pro reo" until UK comes with proofs and evidence

 

No evidence has been made public. This is the world of espionage, do you think all the evidence and sources of that evidence are gonna be laid bare in The Sun or Mirror?

 

It would seem highly unlikely that so many countries would choose to punish Russia diplomatically without seeing some tangible evidence wouldn't it?

[Topdoc]

1 hour ago, sawadee1947 said:

Up to now there is NO evidence that Russia is involved (or did I miss something?) And UK did not follow the request.

So for me it's still "in dubio pro reo" until UK comes with proofs and evidence

Armin Laschet, a member of Angela Merkel's Christian Democratic Union (CDU) and a close confidant of the chancellor's, recently tweeted: "If you force almost all NATO member states to show solidarity, shouldn't you also have clear proof?"

 

Amen to Armin

Edited April 8, 2018 by Topdoc

[sawadee1947]

43 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

No evidence has been made public. This is the world of espionage, do you think all the evidence and sources of that evidence are gonna be laid bare in The Sun or Mirror?

 

It would seem highly unlikely that so many countries would choose to punish Russia diplomatically without seeing some tangible evidence wouldn't it?

you I suppose are a true believer of fake news then???

[sawadee1947]

1 hour ago, Basil B said:

We have not made public evidence...

 

That is not to say there is none, and I see many reasons for not saying what we know if it is to protect the sources, if information came from a double agent we could be putting them at risk.

 

Oh I forgot, here is James Bond waiting next corner......

[Srikcir]

34 minutes ago, Topdoc said:

Armin Laschet, a member of Angela Merkel's Christian Democratic Union (CDU) and a close confidant of the chancellor's, recently tweeted: "If you force almost all NATO member states to show solidarity, shouldn't you also have clear proof?"

 

Amen to Armin

German Foreign Minister Heiko Maas (a member of the Social Democratic Party of Germany)¹:

• “It is clear that there must be consequences. We in the European Union have therefore adopted an unequivocal position and stand shoulder-to-shoulder with the United Kingdom,” said in a statement.
• "the Russian government had not answered any of the unresolved questions around the attack and had shown no willingness to play a constructive role in clarifying the circumstances around it."

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-russia-germany-dipomats/germany-expels-four-russian-diplomats-over-skripal-case-idUSKBN1H21LR

Maas will have to be prepared to hear shrill tones emanating from capitals like Ankara, Budapest and Warsaw. http://www.dw.com/en/heiko-maas-who-is-germanys-new-foreign-minister/a-42898811

¹ In forming a coalition government Merkel's Party CDU lost the Labor, Finance and Foreign Ministries to the SSP. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/feb/07/germany-coalition-deal-cdu-spd-angela-merkel-martin-schulz

[Basil B]

3 minutes ago, sawadee1947 said:

Oh I forgot, here is James Bond waiting next corner......

More like some of the Bond villains...

 

My thoughts are the Russian secret service gone feral maybe using agents from former Soviet countries who are within the EU allowing unrestricted access all Europe.

[sawadee1947]

7 minutes ago, Basil B said:

More like some of the Bond villains...

 

My thoughts are the Russian secret service gone feral maybe using agents from former Soviet countries who are within the EU allowing unrestricted access all Europe.

well, but we are doing the same

[khunken]

13 minutes ago, Basil B said:

More like some of the Bond villains...

 

My thoughts are the Russian secret service gone feral maybe using agents from former Soviet countries who are within the EU allowing unrestricted access all Europe.

Yes, that's a possibility. There are others: previous agents outed by Skripal or even other secret service(s) doing their bit to muddy the waters even more.

 

The main point so far is that the scientists have said that they cannot trace the nerve agent used to Russia. But of course politicians don't need scientific proof, just fingers to point with.

[FritsSikkink]

2 hours ago, Basil B said:

We have not made public evidence...

 

That is not to say there is none, and I see many reasons for not saying what we know if it is to protect the sources, if information came from a double agent we could be putting them at risk.

 

You work for the secret service or you just KNOW nothing?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

When the estranged half-brother of North Korean dictator Kim Jong-un was assassinated last year in Malaysia with the nerve agent VX, no one had to look too far as to who was behind the killing. Because pretty much the only entity that had the motive, ability, and track record to carry out the attack was North Korea.

 

In the same vein, the British had no reason to provoke an international incident with Russia. But Russia had lots of reasons to go after a former spy of theirs who turned traitor in their view, and sold out to the West. especially someone from Putin's former ranks. So Russia not only had the motive, but the ability given its science with nerve agents, and the past track record with the Litvinenko radiation assassination to deserve the same kind of suspicion for responsibility.

 

That doesn't prove 100% that they're responsible. But it creates a much greater suspicion of responsibility than all the other blame pointing conspiracy theories that Russia and their stooges have been throwing out lately in an attempt to muddy the investigation and public perception of it. For now, I'm content to wait and see what kind of evidence / proof the British are able to provide down the road.

 

But for anything the Russians have to say themselves on the matter, I wouldn't listen a jot, since on these kinds of matters, they have zero credibility and believeability.

[khunken]

6 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

When the estranged half-brother of North Korean dictator Kim Jong-un was assassinated last year in Malaysia with the nerve agent VX, no one had to look too far as to who was behind the killing. Because pretty much the only entity that had the motive, ability, and track record to carry out the attack was North Korea.

 

In the same vein, the British had no reason to provoke an international incident with Russia. But Russia had lots of reasons to go after a former spy of theirs who turned traitor in their view, and sold out to the West. especially someone from Putin's former ranks. So Russia not only had the motive, but the ability given its science with nerve agents, and the past track record with the Litvinenko radiation assassination to deserve the same kind of suspicion for responsibility.

 

That doesn't prove 100% that they're responsible. But it creates a much greater suspicion of responsibility than all the other blame pointing conspiracy theories that Russia and their stooges have been throwing out lately in an attempt to muddy the investigation and public perception of it. For now, I'm content to wait and see what kind of evidence / proof the British are able to provide down the road.

 

But for anything the Russians have to say themselves on the matter, I wouldn't listen a jot, since on these kinds of matters, they have zero credibility and believeability.

First, the Malaysians arrested two (probably innocent) individuals who admitted to applying the nerve agent unknowingly and also admitted to who supplied the nerve agent. Furthermore they had video evidence of the act and of some of the suppliers. Fairly substantial proof - they didn't need to resort to unproven finger-pointing.

 

The UK government has and had lots of reasons to provoke an outcry: sympathy and diversion. The Brexit mess with a fiercly divided public and parliament, a tiny parliamentary majority and an easy target. You probably didn't bother to update yourself on the Litvinenko case where his father is now convinced that the Russian government was not the culprit.

 

The muddy waters are reeking with unproven accusations which the current anti-Russian flavour in parts of western countries are perfect for more muddying. I personally have a very cynical view of  UK, US and Russian politicians and don't believe any of them until some reasonable degree of proof (truth too) is provided. I don't rule out Russian involvement just as I don't rule out other possibilities as I mentioned in my previous post.

 

 

[dunroaming]

As clever as the TV detectives clearly are, I doubt even they cannot crack this one.  Secrets and lies rule the day, at least with Le Carre the truth usually will out in the end but in real life the truth will get buried and we will never know the facts.  Not called the secret services for nothing.

[Khun Han]

4 hours ago, dunroaming said:

As clever as the TV detectives clearly are, I doubt even they cannot crack this one.  Secrets and lies rule the day, at least with Le Carre the truth usually will out in the end but in real life the truth will get buried and we will never know the facts.  Not called the secret services for nothing.

 

Whilst we can expose the obvious lies and contradictions, I agree D, we can only speculate. I doubt we'll get to the bottom of it in our lifetimes (which might not be very much longer, the way things are developing in the Middle East).

[Basil B]

8 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

You work for the secret service or you just KNOW nothing?

Seems to me some of the posters on this forum work for the Russian Propaganda Ministry...

 

Russia has a track record of assassinations as well lying and cheating, when it comes to credibility Russia has none.

 

Today another chemical attack this time on Douma once again with compelling eyewitness reports and photos, live news reports, but both Syria and Russia deny a chemical attack took place.

[SheungWan]

2 hours ago, Basil B said:

Seems to me some of the posters on this forum work for the Russian Propaganda Ministry...

 

Russia has a track record of assassinations as well lying and cheating, when it comes to credibility Russia has none.

 

Today another chemical attack this time on Douma once again with compelling eyewitness reports and photos, live news reports, but both Syria and Russia deny a chemical attack took place.

Like Corbyn, useful idiots.

[FritsSikkink]

8 hours ago, Basil B said:

Seems to me some of the posters on this forum work for the Russian Propaganda Ministry...

You really lost the plot here.

[Rimmer]

An off topic post from an un authenticated source has been removed

[evadgib]

https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/only-russia-could-have-committed-this-crime-article-by-boris-johnson

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/foreign-secretary-responds-to-reports-of-chemical-weapons-attack-in-douma-syria

[nausea]

On 09/04/2018 at 4:44 AM, SheungWan said:

Like Corbyn, useful idiots.

Oh, I know where that came from:

 

"Sadly, I am driven to the conclusion that Jeremy Corbyn has joined this effort ...Truly he is the Kremlin's useful idiot". Boris.

 

But, you know, one idiot calling another supposed idiot, an idiot, doesn't really carry much weight, especially after Boris's Porton Down gaffe:

 

"  ... in an interview given to German TV last month, Mr Johnson said that "people from Porton Down" were "absolutely categorical"(about the nerve agent being Russian sourced), adding: "I asked the guy myself. I said 'are you sure?', and he said 'there's no doubt'." BBC

 

And we all know how that turned out.

 

Poor Boris, rather than weakening Corbyn wiith this rather obvious "ad hominem" attack, he just focuses attention on his own flaws:

 

Crow@CrowSNP

If every village idiot in the UK was moved into one village, Boris Johnson would be the village idiot for that village.

12:45 AM - Apr 4, 2018

3,329

• 1,390 people are talking about this

No wonder the Kremlin wants to meet with him.

[SheungWan]

1 hour ago, nausea said:

Oh, I know where that came from:

"Sadly, I am driven to the conclusion that Jeremy Corbyn has joined this effort ...Truly he is the Kremlin's useful idiot". Boris.

But, you know, one idiot calling another supposed idiot, an idiot, doesn't really carry much weight, especially after Boris's Porton Down gaffe:

"  ... in an interview given to German TV last month, Mr Johnson said that "people from Porton Down" were "absolutely categorical"(about the nerve agent being Russian sourced), adding: "I asked the guy myself. I said 'are you sure?', and he said 'there's no doubt'." BBC

And we all know how that turned out.

Poor Boris, rather than weakening Corbyn wiith this rather obvious "ad hominem" attack, he just focuses attention on his own flaws:

Crow@CrowSNP

If every village idiot in the UK was moved into one village, Boris Johnson would be the village idiot for that village.

12:45 AM - Apr 4, 2018

3,329

• 1,390 people are talking about thisNo wonder the Kremlin wants to meet with him.

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. For those who bother to search out the historical reference 'useful idiots' is a phrase originally attributed to Josef Stalin who used it to describe overseas non-CP members who promoted and embraced Soviet Union policies during the Cold War period. Fast forward to today and we have a similar phenomenon (see above) of forum (and other contributors) pushing the Putin agenda. As for Corbyn, he appears still locked inside a Trotskyist old school 'defencism' of Russia though somewhat modified by populism. The Russian envoy? Pure deflection.