3 hours ago, wump said:

You (op) have been here long enough to know that no Thai will ever say

"I made a mistake" or
"I was wrong" or
"I'm sorry" unless forced to ...like the clowns they catch on tape with some crap and then show them on TV.

It's some losing face thing. I find it the most ridiculous thing in the world and this is what I hate most about Thailand and IMO that's why Thailand still isn't and will never be a real developed country.

Absolutely, as noted before, I just needed somewhere to vent.

 

And if you want somewhere worse than Thailand for "face" issues, try Korea. My time there taught me how to phrase any question so that the answer would be "yes".

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Crossy said:

And if you want somewhere worse than Thailand for "face" issues, try Korea. My time there taught me how to phrase any question so that the answer would be "yes".

 

I had the same problem with face phraseology there

 

If you asked for something with "do you have X " you were really making a statement "you don't have X do you" hoping that they would correct you (gain face) with Oh, yes we have X 

1 hour ago, Tofer said:

Yes I understood that.

 

Sorry to hear your friend got so badly stitched up.

It was partially his fault; he trusted them and gave them a bundle of money and went back home awaiting the build. 

Absolutely, as noted before, I just needed somewhere to vent.
 
And if you want somewhere worse than Thailand for "face" issues, try Korea. My time there taught me how to phrase any question so that the answer would be "yes".
 
 
 

Then you can picture me, a younger American supervisor telling an older Korean carpenter, Mr. Park, his work was wrong and him arguing “ you don’t know, I know, 20 years I’m working, you don’t know!” (In a deep and assertive voice).
After showing him the blueprints he was given to follow were my source of criticism he responds “they don’t know, I know, my ways better!” To which I agreed may be true but explained my job was to make it look the the drawing and told him to fix it or go home. He begrudgingly fixed it and we got along fine after that.

6 minutes ago, KMartinHandyman said:

Then you can picture me, a younger American supervisor telling an older Korean carpenter, Mr. Park, his work was wrong and him arguing “ you don’t know, I know, 20 years I’m working, you don’t know!” (In a deep and assertive voice).

Absolutely! I got in so deep our interpreter "forgot" how to speak English.

 

It was long, long ago and Korea was my first position outside Europe, talk about a baptism of fire! But if you can survive there you can survive anywhere. And I still have many friends in Seoul and in the Korean rail industry.

 

Is this a diss Thai thread?  If so, I would like to object.  Why do so many posters need to show how superior they are to the Thai worker?   

Just now, bankruatsteve said:

Is this a diss Thai thread?  If so, I would like to object.  Why do so many posters need to show how superior they are to the Thai worker?   

No I don't think it is really.

 

Most of the comments have been (reasonably) well mannered (I've not actually had to remove any). More like telling it as it is.

 

Of course, if you feel it bends any rules you could always report it to a Mod

 

49 minutes ago, bankruatsteve said:

Is this a diss Thai thread?  If so, I would like to object.  Why do so many posters need to show how superior they are to the Thai worker?   

having never met you, if you personally are not better than the average Thai 'worker', believe me when i tell you, you have more important things to worry about than who might be dissing who.

 

16 years without a single contractor or professional NOT making multiple basic errors at every possible opportunity speaks for itself.

 

on the plus side, my plumbing, sparky, carpentry & painting skills have all improved a bit.

 

 

To add a little balance I must say that there are many excellent Thai craftsmen out there.

 

The issues are:

a. Finding them and

b. Finding a slot when they are available (the place that made our doors has a 3 month waiting list).

The good ones are in high demand and (of course) are not cheap.

 

We have a small band of go-to chaps for building and steelwork, concrete and the like, there are always issues of course but largely they do a decent job. My step-son does painting, climbing on the roof to unblock the gutters and the like, I do my own sparking and plumbing.

 

I don't mind paying for quality, I do mind paying quality prices for poor work.

 

 

Of course.  We live in a country where skilled labor is in short supply and those who are skilled are not usually required to be certified and end up as captives of the big companies in Bangkok.  That leaves the rest of the nation with mostly unskilled labor to stumble around trying to do things they don't really know in an effort to make not much of a living.  There's always a few gems that learn fast and become the guy to try and get for your project.  And then whine because he wants more than 300 baht for a day's work.  But, to stereotype a nation of workers as bumbling children is just absurd.

18 hours ago, smotherb said:

It was partially his fault; he trusted them and gave them a bundle of money and went back home awaiting the build. 

Quite, I just didn't want to rub anyone's nose. I also appreciate that not everyone can apply their full time attention to such builds.

 

Even if you are not fortunate enough to have any experience, the very least anyone should be prepared to do is visit / be on site every day, or you're taking a huge risk. Not only in Thailand, the construction industry the world over will cut corners to save money and effort.

 

I've seen and heard lots of unsatisfactory builds, even when projects have been left in the hands of, so called, foreign professionals.

 

I wonder if your friends architect has any professional indemnity insurance to compensate / pay for rectification of the defects.

22 hours ago, edgarfriendly said:

having never met you, if you personally are not better than the average Thai 'worker', believe me when i tell you, you have more important things to worry about than who might be dissing who.

 

16 years without a single contractor or professional NOT making multiple basic errors at every possible opportunity speaks for itself.

 

on the plus side, my plumbing, sparky, carpentry & painting skills have all improved a bit.

 

 

The problem is I am not better or don't have the patience to do it myself. Then again this is not my trade so I am truly ...... when I want to have something done here because I know things will never be done perfect. Still had quite a few things go decent.

 

I even had my dad over to make a kitchen, 2 bathrooms (not all in the same year). Every year when he is on a holiday I find a new project for him. Though the last few years i try not too as he is unfortunately getting a bit old.

 

Not everyone is good with their hands.. I am one of those guys, i know how things have to be done.. but I just don't got the feeling for it also I don't got the patience of it. Let me work on computers or do some accounting or taxes.. no problems.. manual work just not my thing. So I am condemned to Thai tradesman, to be honest if you look around there are good ones.. they are just extremely busy. 

8 hours ago, Tofer said:

Quite, I just didn't want to rub anyone's nose. I also appreciate that not everyone can apply their full time attention to such builds.

 

Even if you are not fortunate enough to have any experience, the very least anyone should be prepared to do is visit / be on site every day, or you're taking a huge risk. Not only in Thailand, the construction industry the world over will cut corners to save money and effort.

 

I've seen and heard lots of unsatisfactory builds, even when projects have been left in the hands of, so called, foreign professionals.

 

I wonder if your friends architect has any professional indemnity insurance to compensate / pay for rectification of the defects.

Yes, I am quite aware of such poor workmanship. I was a construction inspector in Washington DC and Northern Virginia, saw many poor quality builds, usually inferior materials; but nothing as obvious as drastic irregularities in rise and run, windows and doors which would not seat properly, or far too narrow garages.  

14 hours ago, smotherb said:

Yes, I am quite aware of such poor workmanship. I was a construction inspector in Washington DC and Northern Virginia, saw many poor quality builds, usually inferior materials; but nothing as obvious as drastic irregularities in rise and run, windows and doors which would not seat properly, or far too narrow garages.  

Our Poo Yai Baan invited us to look around his new house last year, it was abismal. His staircase could only be described as an obstacle course, I struggled to keep my mouth shut. So if he gets stiffed there's little hope for us.

50 minutes ago, Tofer said:

His staircase could only be described as an obstacle course

I'm always tripping up the stairs, riser heights all over the place.

2 minutes ago, johng said:

I'm always tripping up the stairs, riser heights all over the place.

It is a particularly regular failing in Thailand, especially the first and last steps where no allowance has been made for the floor finish in the staircase design / construction.