2 months deposit now = 1 month deposit + "furniture insurance"

[stampyfan]

I emailed my landlord in light of recent rental law developments, and his response was "many landlords adapts for this by having one deposit and one month of furniture insurance. Which are also 2 months as the same" My question is whether anyone else experienced such adaptive landlords?

[smutcakes]

Many already do separate agreements to reduce property tax by having a lease agreement and a Furniture agreement. Of course landlords will find ways around the law as it has so many holes  in it,  its implementation and grey areas that no one has a clue what to do.

[scubascuba3]

I guess if someone doesn't like their workaround then give notice and move elsewhere

[simoh1490]

1 hour ago, smutcakes said:

Many already do separate agreements to reduce property tax by having a lease agreement and a Furniture agreement. Of course landlords will find ways around the law as it has so many holes  in it,  its implementation and grey areas that no one has a clue what to do.

+1 it's not uncommon.

[dutchweller]

I certainly will be implementing a furniture insurance + rental deposit in the next round of contract renewals for my tenants..

Why should I be left out of pocket if damage is done by a Tennant to my property?

my wife and I worked hard to get our investment and I'll be dammed if I will roll over if it is damaged by someone renting it..

 

[Queen4ADay]

This law is primarily targeted at Thai owners of "cheap" condos 2-5K where many Thai people live and have been taken advantage of for many years. High electric rates. Flat fees for water and never getting their deposits back. It will, of course , find its way into all real estate transactions and there will be some chaos as tenants and owners wade through the language to find a happy balance. There will be those who abuse this law or ignore it. You will have to prove that your landlord has 5 or more condos if you want to go down that slippery slope. Buildings that are one owner will get a bit of a shock if they don't comply and get reported. There are many such buildings in Thailand, certainly in Bangkok. It will be an interesting ride.

[bandito]

15 hours ago, dutchweller said:

I certainly will be implementing a furniture insurance + rental deposit in the next round of contract renewals for my tenants..

Why should I be left out of pocket if damage is done by a Tennant to my property?

my wife and I worked hard to get our investment and I'll be dammed if I will roll over if it is damaged by someone renting it..

 

 

That's the risk you have when running a business renting out rooms.

Insure your business against this instead of making contracts trying to lighten the pockets of some unexpecting renters.

If you would give me such a contract to sign I would tear it up and throw it in the garbage bin.

[jacko45k]

On 10/04/2018 at 12:45 PM, scubascuba3 said:

I guess if someone doesn't like their workaround then give notice and move elsewhere

And lose all your deposits!

[scubascuba3]

And lose all your deposits!

Why? Only a shady landlord would do that. If you've agreed to a 6 month 12 month term i guess you'd need to see it out first

[Khun Jean]

6 hours ago, bandito said:

 

That's the risk you have when running a business renting out rooms.

Insure your business against this instead of making contracts trying to lighten the pockets of some unexpecting renters.

If you would give me such a contract to sign I would tear it up and throw it in the garbage bin.

Please send your real name in a PM so that when you happen to inquire to rent one of my condo's i can tell you to get lost.

[Acemaker]

On 4/12/2018 at 2:31 PM, dutchweller said:

I certainly will be implementing a furniture insurance + rental deposit in the next round of contract renewals for my tenants..

Why should I be left out of pocket if damage is done by a Tennant to my property?

my wife and I worked hard to get our investment and I'll be dammed if I will roll over if it is damaged by someone renting it..

 

Thank you, Mr. Rigsby.   

[Acemaker]

8 hours ago, bandito said:

 

That's the risk you have when running a business renting out rooms.

Insure your business against this instead of making contracts trying to lighten the pockets of some unexpecting renters.

If you would give me such a contract to sign I would tear it up and throw it in the garbage bin.

Agreed ! Bloody Dutch.  

[Benmart]

On 4/12/2018 at 2:31 PM, dutchweller said:

I certainly will be implementing a furniture insurance + rental deposit in the next round of contract renewals for my tenants..

Why should I be left out of pocket if damage is done by a Tennant to my property?

my wife and I worked hard to get our investment and I'll be dammed if I will roll over if it is damaged by someone renting it..

 

I wish you well. Well far from me.

[Khun Jean]

5 hours ago, Benmart said:

I wish you well. Well far from me.

So you do not understand the concept of a deposit?

It is used for a reason. Often after not asking for a deposit and then be left with damages.

This is just cause and effect.

 

[Pattaya46]

47 minutes ago, Khun Jean said:

So you do not understand the concept of a deposit?

It is used for a reason. Often after not asking for a deposit and then be left with damages. This is just cause and effect.

 

From what I understand, Dutchweller already asked for a deposit - supposed to pay damages and unpaid charge - but now that this deposit will be restricted to 1 month rent, he wants ask for a second 1 month deposit just for furniture.

Agree with Bandito, serious damages should be covered by insurance, not by another deposit. Else why not yet another 1 month deposit for floors and tiles, and another one for paint on walls and ceiling, etc... 

[dutchweller]

On 4/13/2018 at 7:02 AM, bandito said:

 

That's the risk you have when running a business renting out rooms.

Insure your business against this instead of making contracts trying to lighten the pockets of some unexpecting renters.

If you would give me such a contract to sign I would tear it up and throw it in the garbage bin.

If you throw out the contract

See if I cair you just would not be living in my condo..

Unexpecting renters??

It would be clear what the deposit are for..

Why should I not ask for a security for the 100s of thousands of bhat furniture that is in the apartment?

And in reality the deposit would barley cover the cost to replace the TV..

I am a fair landlord and I have never ripped off any of my renters infact I have never had to even look for renters for my rooms because every time I have had people move out the previous tenants have always found friends to move in.

Not because they are obliged to but because they were so happy and impressed on how they were treated living with us..

If you are not happy with how I run my business move along I have never had any issues.

Infact I doubt any of you who oppose the deposit for furniture I would allow in my apartments.

Renting is a 2 way Street if you came to rent from me I would most likely say no thanks I will find a better Tennant.

 

 

[dutchweller]

On 4/13/2018 at 1:22 PM, Khun Jean said:

Please send your real name in a PM so that when you happen to inquire to rent one of my condo's i can tell you to get lost.

Exactly

I laugh when some asshat thinks he can dictate to an owner the terms of the contract...

[anon537687643]

Haha. Never ever paid 2 months deposit for rental in Thailand , Bangkok or anywhere else ! It never applied in other countries I have rented,and when I was a landlord in the Uk I was only allowed to ask for 1 month deposit !


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[anon537687643]

Exactly
I laugh when some asshat thinks he can dictate to an owner the terms of the contract...

I laugh at owners who think they can ask for crazy amounts of money! So good to see all these empty properties and landlords not getting any income !


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[dutchweller]

2 hours ago, Pattaya46 said:

 

From what I understand, Dutchweller already asked for a deposit - supposed to pay damages and unpaid charge - but now that this deposit will be restricted to 1 month rent, he wants ask for a second 1 month deposit just for furniture.

Agree with Bandito, serious damages should be covered by insurance, not by another deposit. Else why not yet another 1 month deposit for floors and tiles, and another one for paint on walls and ceiling, etc... 

Ok if it's the terms that are getting you

I can always rent the apartment.

Without furniture..

Then we can have a second contract for the rental of the future.

See not that difficult.???

Each rental contact will have its own deposit also..

[dutchweller]

2 minutes ago, markaoffy said:

I laugh at owners who think they can ask for crazy amounts of money! So good to see all these empty properties and landlords not getting any income !


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See my previous post

My rooms have never been empty..

 

[Pattaya46]

1 hour ago, dutchweller said:

My rooms have never been empty...

Maybe, but the new law is not yet in application, and until now it was frequent to find condo like yours with an increased 2-months deposit.

I would bet that within a few months, most tenants will only accept places whose contract respect the new law. That the owner has less or more than 5 units will not be their problem. They will still have a lot of choice...

[coulson]

On 4/13/2018 at 12:03 AM, Queen4ADay said:

This law is primarily targeted at Thai owners of "cheap" condos 2-5K where many Thai people live and have been taken advantage of for many years. High electric rates. Flat fees for water and never getting their deposits back. It will, of course , find its way into all real estate transactions and there will be some chaos as tenants and owners wade through the language to find a happy balance. There will be those who abuse this law or ignore it. You will have to prove that your landlord has 5 or more condos if you want to go down that slippery slope. Buildings that are one owner will get a bit of a shock if they don't comply and get reported. There are many such buildings in Thailand, certainly in Bangkok. It will be an interesting ride.

+1

 

It mainly targets building owners who top up on utilities etc. The others will carry on as normal. As some have said, top up with a form of insurance or whatever. If the tenant doesn't like it then they go elsewhere, there's always a medium if it's fair play.

 

Nobody wants a dodgy landlord, but dodgy tenants are more costly. Rental rates are so low that a months deposit doesnt near cover the potential damage.

[scubascuba3]

Does this apply to guesthouses too? I don't think it does but they are guilty of charging way too much for elec and water.

 

The 5 properties or more rule confuses things. Anyone who tries for 2 months of rent/deposit/furniture whatsit should be avoided

 

 

[blackcab]

I work for a company that rents large amounts of cheap apartments in the 2,500-3,000 baht range. We have already amended our electricity and water prices to cost price (or as close as we can reasonably get to cost, as the cost of electricity changes each month).

 

We have decreased our charges to 16 baht per unit of water and 5 baht per unit of electricity (don't forget we are a commercial business so we pay commercial rates. Our tenants also consume a lot of units, so we reach quite high up the scale of progressive utility charges). We reduced our utility charges one month in advance of the deadline, so in effect our tenants have had a cheaper month than usual this month.

 

We used to charge 20 baht per unit of water and 8 baht per unit of electricity, which was the same as many other apartment buildings in the Bangkok area.

 

Our loss of income per year would have been quite substantial, so as of next month we will be increasing rents from 2,600 baht to 2,900 baht and 3,100 baht to 3,400 baht (an increase of 300 baht per month).

 

Our best calculations show that we should "break even" at this level of increase, meaning we will neither gain nor lose in terms of total revenue.

 

Many tenants don't like the rent increase though. We have had about 15 per cent of our tenants give us notice to quit. They will all get their deposits returned promptly as we keep all deposit money in a separate savings account that is not used for any other purpose.

 

We only charge 1 month deposit and 1 month rent in advance, so there are no other big changes for us. We have a very few tenants who first rented from us many years ago, and we hold 2 months deposit from them. They will be getting any excess deposit money refunded to them at the end of this month.

 

In terms of new contracts, we are issuing every tenant with a new contract that complies with the law, regardless of how long they have stayed with us. We have set the contract length at 2 months, so it shouldn't inconvenience anyone too much. We have already agreed that if a tenant wants to move out during the new 2 month contract we will return their deposit to them anyway, as they didn't ask to go from a rolling 1 month contract onto a fixed term contract.

 

It's all a bit up in the air at the minute, but it is already clear that the better owners are complying with the new law, while for other owners it is business as usual with 20 baht water, 8 baht electric and 2 months deposits.

[blackcab]

5 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

Does this apply to guesthouses too? I don't think it does but they are guilty of charging way too much for elec and water.

 

Guesthouses with more than four rooms who rent the rooms for periods of less than 30 days should have a hotel license. Hotels and dormitories are exempt from this law as they are regulated in other ways.

 

If they don't have a hotel license because 1.They do rentals longer than 30 days, and 2. They rent more than four rooms either in one property or in different properties then yes, this law applies to them.

[ExpatOilWorker]

1 hour ago, Pattaya46 said:

Maybe, but the new law is not yet in application, and until now it was frequent to find condo like yours with an increased 2-months deposit.

I would bet that within a few months, most tenants will only accept places whose contract respect the new law. That the owner has less or more than 5 units will not be their problem. They will still have a lot of choice...

1 month deposit could very well be the norm a few years from now, but landlords mean business, so as a result of this this new law many landlords will probably just add 1-2,000 to the monthly rental to balance their cost.

Rental rates have been due for a upwards correction for some time now.

[scubascuba3]

 
Guesthouses with more than four rooms who rent the rooms for periods of less than 30 days should have a hotel license. Hotels and dormitories are exempt from this law as they are regulated in other ways.
 
If they don't have a hotel license because 1.They do rentals longer than 30 days, and 2. They rent more than four rooms either in one property or in different properties then yes, this law applies to them.

Interesting, so in my guesthouse i think this would apply as many people staying are long termers. Luckily the owner is very good, only 1 month deposit and elec and water are fair rates

[anon537687643]

I’m sure as the saying goes,”more than one way to skin a rabbit” or in this case “.....to screw a tenant “


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[cheeryble]

6 hours ago, blackcab said:

I work for a company that rents large amounts of cheap apartments in the 2,500-3,000 baht range. We have already amended our electricity and water prices to cost price (or as close as we can reasonably get to cost, as the cost of electricity changes each month).

 

We have decreased our charges to 16 baht per unit of water and 5 baht per unit of electricity (don't forget we are a commercial business so we pay commercial rates. Our tenants also consume a lot of units, so we reach quite high up the scale of progressive utility charges). We reduced our utility charges one month in advance of the deadline, so in effect our tenants have had a cheaper month than usual this month.

 

We used to charge 20 baht per unit of water and 8 baht per unit of electricity, which was the same as many other apartment buildings in the Bangkok area.

 

Our loss of income per year would have been quite substantial, so as of next month we will be increasing rents from 2,600 baht to 2,900 baht and 3,100 baht to 3,400 baht (an increase of 300 baht per month).

 

Our best calculations show that we should "break even" at this level of increase, meaning we will neither gain nor lose in terms of total revenue.

 

Many tenants don't like the rent increase though. We have had about 15 per cent of our tenants give us notice to quit. They will all get their deposits returned promptly as we keep all deposit money in a separate savings account that is not used for any other purpose.

 

We only charge 1 month deposit and 1 month rent in advance, so there are no other big changes for us. We have a very few tenants who first rented from us many years ago, and we hold 2 months deposit from them. They will be getting any excess deposit money refunded to them at the end of this month.

 

In terms of new contracts, we are issuing every tenant with a new contract that complies with the law, regardless of how long they have stayed with us. We have set the contract length at 2 months, so it shouldn't inconvenience anyone too much. We have already agreed that if a tenant wants to move out during the new 2 month contract we will return their deposit to them anyway, as they didn't ask to go from a rolling 1 month contract onto a fixed term contract.

 

It's all a bit up in the air at the minute, but it is already clear that the better owners are complying with the new law, while for other owners it is business as usual with 20 baht water, 8 baht electric and 2 months deposits.

Are you using well water?

I ask because in our area the PWA charges condos at the commercial (top) rate for water.

That's 29baht/cu.m