On 4/11/2018 at 9:01 PM, Jingthing said:

What happened is that he knows his supporters don't remember what he said five minutes ago and arguably he doesn't either. Whatever he says NOW -- MAGA. The opposite tomorrow? MAGA.

Like I said.

Bizarre new world led by bizarre old president.

 

 

Quote

 

The stranger things about polarization and foreign policy

We might be in a world where Trump's base will swallow whatever he tells them.

 

 

http://www.paywallnews.com/news/Perspective-|-The-stranger-things-about-polarization-and-foreign-policy.rJZtmA3iM.html

13 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Like I said.

Bizarre new world led by bizarre old president.

 

 

 

http://www.paywallnews.com/news/Perspective-|-The-stranger-things-about-polarization-and-foreign-policy.rJZtmA3iM.html

 

"Actually, as Winston well knew, it was only four years since Oceania had been at war with Eastasia and in alliance with Eurasia. But that was merely a piece of furtive knowledge, which he happened to possess because his memory was not satisfactorily under control."  -(George Orwell, 1984)

Edited April 12, 20188 yr by Morch

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/security-in-the-gulf-is-vital-to-keeping-britain-safe

This whole thing is bizarre.

 

Who are these people going to war on our behalf, not having to consult us at all?

 

Who took Delta Tango from "we need to pull out" to "we need to bomb you"?

 

Who did the same to Obama when he was in office?

 

The whole thing stinks.

2 hours ago, Morch said:

 

More like RT, a Russian government owned media outlet engaged in propaganda and scaremongering. I'm sure they'll appreciate the help.

Better to listen to fox then

2 minutes ago, pedro01 said:

This whole thing is bizarre.

 

Who are these people going to war on our behalf, not having to consult us at all?

 

Who took Delta Tango from "we need to pull out" to "we need to bomb you"?

 

Who did the same to Obama when he was in office?

 

The whole thing stinks.

 

Ah, so Trump is not in charge then. Good to know. Kinda goes against what his supporters say on other topics, but consistency is not much of an issue for some.

2 hours ago, Morch said:

 

More like RT, a Russian government owned media outlet engaged in propaganda and scaremongering. I'm sure they'll appreciate the help.

Remember these people giving us BS about the WMD in Iraq? none of those agency's are to be trusted.

2 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

Better to listen to fox then

 

I'm not the one citing either. Try harder.

19 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

Remember these people giving us BS about the WMD in Iraq? none of those agency's are to be trusted.

 

Remember the people re-hashing the same excuse for denying anything and everything?

There's a leak somewhere. Trump plans to attack 8 targets in Syria. Don't want kill Russians....

3 hours ago, pedro01 said:

This whole thing is bizarre.

 

Who are these people going to war on our behalf, not having to consult us at all?

 

Who took Delta Tango from "we need to pull out" to "we need to bomb you"?

 

Who did the same to Obama when he was in office?

 

The whole thing stinks.

 

It makes a certain amount of sense when you realize that the goal isn't victory by one party or another but to destabilize to such an extent that no party can gain regional power.

A post attempting to deflect the topic back to Iraq has been removed as well as the replies. 

 

An offensive post has been removed, the reply was removed as well. 

7 hours ago, lannarebirth said:

 

It makes a certain amount of sense when you realize that the goal isn't victory by one party or another but to destabilize to such an extent that no party can gain regional power.

 

Which parties would these be in reference to the current situation?

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/pm-call-with-president-trump-12-april-2018

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/cabinet-meeting-12-april-2018cabinet-meeting-12-april-2018

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/we-must-stand-up-for-an-effective-non-proliferation-regime

2 minutes ago, evadgib said:

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/pm-call-with-president-trump-12-april-2018

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/cabinet-meeting-12-april-2018cabinet-meeting-12-april-2018

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/we-must-stand-up-for-an-effective-non-proliferation-regime

Look what happened the last time the UK supported the US on a matter of military action to prevent the use and spread of weapons of mass destruction.

 

Jeremy Corbyn has very rightly called for any use of UK military force to be subjected to a vote in the houses of parliament, for this to be decided by the representatives of the people not by executive decree from the PM and her Ministers.

24 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Which parties would these be in reference to the current situation?

 

In the bigger scheme, Arab vs Iran spheres of influence.

32 minutes ago, lannarebirth said:

 

In the bigger scheme, Arab vs Iran spheres of influence.

 

Just now, Morch said:

 

Make mine an espresso.

Just now, lannarebirth said:

Make mine an espresso.

 

In the "bigger scheme", I doubt you've earned one. Perhaps when you dine to address the point raised rather that deflect.

 

11 minutes ago, CharlesSwann said:

I am British (Anglo-Saxon, to be specific). Why would I be anti-Western? Nor do I have any vested or personal interest in the region - would you like to declare any, for example, that you are anti-Assad because you are pro-Israel and Assad is part of the 'Shia axis' which is a source of some insecurity to Israel? (These issues are entwined, whether the mods like it or not.)

 

I argue only from the basis of human nature. There is no right or wrong on these issues, only positions that appease one's own personal sense of insecurity. One has to be aware of that in order to achieve anything like objectivity. I at least am aware of it.

 

As to Ford, he is pro-Assad, obviously - presumably because he recognises, as I do (as a result of my own travels in the Muslim world), that the Shias are the most civilised force in Islam, while the west is misguidedly aligned with the Sunnis who are more volatile (less intellectual) and actually causing all the conflict.

 

Just to add: there should be a limit on the number of posts people can make on a particular topic, especially when they respond to every post with an unpleasant cynical tone. If you are under some compulsion to dominate this thread (and every other thread on the topic) and argue down everyone and everything you disagree with, you might do so with at least some grace or wit.

"I am British (Anglo-Saxon, to be specific). Why would I be anti-Western? " So you think tribalism is or should be the determining factor in taking a stance on a particular issue? Seems to me that's the main source of the Middle East's problems.

Off topic post removed

11 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

"I am British (Anglo-Saxon, to be specific). Why would I be anti-Western? " So you think tribalism is or should be the determining factor in taking a stance on a particular issue? Seems to me that's the main source of the Middle East's problems.

  

I can't find my keys. I wish I had someone with your psychic abilities on hand.

President Backpeddle now says he was just teasing our nuclear-armed adversary about lobbing missiles at them.  He finishes off the tweet demanding to be patted on the back for getting rid of ISIS.

 

20 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

"I am British (Anglo-Saxon, to be specific). Why would I be anti-Western? " So you think tribalism is or should be the determining factor in taking a stance on a particular issue? Seems to me that's the main source of the Middle East's problems.

6 minutes ago, lannarebirth said:

  

I can't find my keys. I wish I had someone with your psychic abilities on hand.

 

I have no idea what you're on about here. The poster was the person who tied his ethnicity to his stance on a particular issue. He couldn't have been more explicit in this regard. If you think my reply required psychic abilities, I suggest you have yourself tested for dyslexia.

 

1 minute ago, hyku1147 said:

[image]

 

Did you do that yourself?  You forgot to change the elephant to a donkey, and it's bad form to strip away the original artist's credit.  Now we all know what the original pic looked like:

 

 

Interesting analysis of the Iranian / Syrian tensions below. Wonder how Russia treads the path between the completing parties.. 

 

http://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/view/iran-is-outpacing-assad-for-control-of-syrias-shia-militias

 

Russia, Iran and Turkey currently look as though they are committed to an ongoing military presence in Syria. If the mass murderer and torturer of children, Assad, is going to stay in power, pragmatically what real difference will a Western military strike achieve in Syria.

 

https://www.smh.com.au/world/middle-east/iran-russia-and-turkey-isolate-us-in-planning-syrias-future-20180405-p4z7zm.html

1 minute ago, simple1 said:

Interesting analysis of the Iranian / Syrian tensions below. Wonder how Russia treads the path between the completing parties.. 

 

http://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/view/iran-is-outpacing-assad-for-control-of-syrias-shia-militias

 

Russia, Iran and Turkey currently look as though they are committed to an ongoing military presence in Syria. If the mass murderer and torturer of children, Assad, is going to stay in power, pragmatically what real difference will a Western military strike achieve in Syria.

 

https://www.smh.com.au/world/middle-east/iran-russia-and-turkey-isolate-us-in-planning-syrias-future-20180405-p4z7zm.html

 

This relates to the last line:

 

America’s Three Bad Options in Syria

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/10/world/middleeast/syria-us-chemical-weapons.html