When renovating a building do we need to submit plans for approval?

[ghworker2010]

We signed a 6 yr lease contract on building that is maybe 20 yrs old. 

 

It is my understanding that if we do 'structural changes' then we might have to submit drawings/ plans to the relevant authority to get approval. Does anyone know in Thailand what this means exactly? Maybe you can give a url link of the building code for LOS. 

 

We are planning to do the following work:

 

- install 2 new gyprock / plaster walls (first the timber work structure and plaster them) with sliding glass doors

- 1 double brick room (radiation proof). 

- Maybe 2 new windows cut out of the brick wall. We think the prior owners took out windows in the spaces exactly where we want them. 

- out the front of the building we might install a 4mm thick aluminum composite facade with our logo on it

 

Does any of the this constitute 'structural changes'. 

 

We had a 'designer' come in and quote 250,000 baht to draw plans up and submit - 45 day process. She was hell bent on saying that we would have to get approval but it makes sense for her as she is after the easy money. There is no way that I would be paying that sort of money for drawings. It was the builder that told us we would have to go through her to get his services.

 

Im still learning the processes over here. But if you can comment on any of this it would be appreciated

 

thanks

[harrry]

Don't you have to return the building in its original state and condition at the end of the lease?

[ghworker2010]

21 minutes ago, harrry said:

Don't you have to return the building in its original state and condition at the end of the lease?

no. that is not in our contract. But everything except the double brick room out back could be removed. 

 

Edited April 14, 2018 by ghworker2010

[harrry]

Even if not in the contract I would check with a lawyer.  I think the property law in Thailand does require that.

 

[Crossy]

If the building is the typical Thai concrete pole and beam structure then none of what you describe is "structural", no approval required.

 

If you are adding windows in outside walls check your local requirements for distance from the boundary.

 

[blackcab]

1. A 6 year lease should be registered. If you have a 3 year lease and a contract for a second period of 3 years, this does not need to be registered.

 

2. Are you changing the footprint of the building by adding additional square meters of space? If what you are doing to the rear of the property is single floor construction that does not get within 2 meters of the property line then no permission is needed as long as the building's maximum built up area will not exceed the limit for fire safety.

 

If it's a small building you will be fine.

 

If your construction goes within 2 meters of the boundary and it will have windows then you could have issues. Were the previous windows removed because a neighbour complained?

 

3. 250k is outrageous. You need to wise up quick if you are going to succeed in business here, or you will be bled dry.

[ghworker2010]

19 hours ago, blackcab said:

1. A 6 year lease should be registered. If you have a 3 year lease and a contract for a second period of 3 years, this does not need to be registered.

 

2. Are you changing the footprint of the building by adding additional square meters of space? If what you are doing to the rear of the property is single floor construction that does not get within 2 meters of the property line then no permission is needed as long as the building's maximum built up area will not exceed the limit for fire safety.

 

If it's a small building you will be fine.

 

If your construction goes within 2 meters of the boundary and it will have windows then you could have issues. Were the previous windows removed because a neighbour complained?

 

3. 250k is outrageous. You need to wise up quick if you are going to succeed in business here, or you will be bled dry.

1. we did register it at the land office and pay the tax

2. We are not adding any additional sq m of space. We are just creating a double brick room for the X-ray machine. The 1 side of the wall is the boundary with the neighbour but we will add double brick there. This is the big issue we need to ascertain if approval is required for this as its on the boundary.

 

Its just a normal double shop size width building with ground floor and 3 above it

 

The landlord owns next door. 5 to 10 yrs ago they were going to make a hotel or something and thats why they removed the windows and bricked it up I assume. 

 

 

3. I dont think I need to wise up quick at all. I stated above that I would never pay that sort of money. Its even more expensive than western prices. I lost respect for the women after she quoted that and after she told me that she would have to hire a 'drafts person' to do the drawings. She is just s sales girl interior designer or whatever. 

[mbamber]

On a less serious note Do they Have Building Regulations in Asia especially Thailand 

[Crossy]

Are you just doubling up on an existing wall? If so should be no issue.

 

[blackcab]

Are you building your wall inside your existing building?

 

What I understand from your explanation is that you want to add bricks inside an existing room to make the wall thicker. In non-technical terms, you want to build a smaller box inside the existing larger box.

 

If I understand you correctly you do not need planning permission for this.

[dutchweller]

PM Sent

[crazykopite]

If it were my property and leased out to you I would expect you to contact me and ask for permission to do any renovations . A few years back I knew a German guy who painted and decorated a property he had on lease , the Thai owner went crazy through him and his family out and a couple of weeks later moved himself and his family in needless to say my German friend was not happy with the outcome so I would say before you do anything speak with the owner first .

[scorecard]

16 hours ago, mbamber said:

On a less serious note Do they Have Building Regulations in Asia especially Thailand 

 

Yes, Thailand does have such regulations, some national and some local regulations,  and yes permission is required to build and in some cases to alter, but how well is it enforced? How long is a piece of string?

 

Here's a twist, we bought land with a contract to build a luxury bigger house near Jomtien beach in Pattaya.

 

The developer did get a building permit for every house.

 

Later we sold and without a copy of the original building permit the Land Titles Office would not have been able to transfer the ownership to another owner. We showed the original of the build permit to the LTO, and gave them a copy, then smooth sailing to transfer the ownership to another owner.

 

Luckily we still had the permit to build document and luckily we had during the building stage demanded and fought hard for the build permit document from the developer (farang team). Developer team were not customer focused and very difficult to deal with and they left many owners less then happy on many counts.

 

Most new owners never got a copy of the building permit and at the time we sold several others new owners could not sell - no original building permit.

 

Others have told me that this is not generally applied. What's the answer?

 

 

[ICECOOL]

If it were me... 

 

1. check the the lessor and get verbal ok

2. draw plans up (10-20k)

3 get written approval of plans/changes from lessor

4 go to the Theseban office and ask about approval.  you may or may not need it. 

5 get quote/s where you buy materials and builder works per square metre. 

6 write contract in both Thai and english stating exactly what builder will and will not do. Pay in instalments. 

[ghworker2010]

18 hours ago, blackcab said:

Are you building your wall inside your existing building?

 

What I understand from your explanation is that you want to add bricks inside an existing room to make the wall thicker. In non-technical terms, you want to build a smaller box inside the existing larger box.

 

If I understand you correctly you do not need planning permission for this.

Thanks. We have asked many different sources about this and it seems they all say what you mention as well. 

 

Im disappointed with the greedy designer implying that we have to pay big money to do a 45 day approval process etc. Many of my wifes friends in the same occupation as her mention that we dont have to do this. 

 

cheers

[Toscano]

I think a lot depends where you live , where the house is , in a city you might need planning approval .  I live in a large Isaan village .  I have done major renovation to my wife's house and supervised the building of a second family house nearby .  I have a lot of experience of renovating old houses in Britain , from cottage to a castle .  It is advisable to adhere to traditional style and materials .  I have had many complements from neighbours ; further I have found in subsequent years , our neighbours renovating their houses in a noticeably similar style .  We never sought any planning permission .

[NoshowJones]

I have had additions added on the my house, ie, an extra room, have had a double carport, and a large building

built behind it. Never needed any permission to build them, and why should I? Just as long as you are not interfering with anyone else.

 

That is just another good thing about Thailand not being a nanny state.

[NoshowJones]

21 hours ago, mbamber said:

On a less serious note Do they Have Building Regulations in Asia especially Thailand 

Even if they did. would they be enforced without brown envelopes?

[khunPer]

First thing I would do is to check with the landlord/owner if the changes are Okay, and if they need to be removed when the 6-year lease agreement terminates; preferably in writing to avoid later conflict(s).

 

Secondly the "designer" fee of 250,000 baht sounds way out to me, if there are not something (a lot) more to the design work than a few walls and two windows – I would expect an architect doing a "design" and detailed drawing in the area from 10,000 to 25,000 baht (I paid 50k, but now almost 10-years ago, for a 300m² house, including paperwork for building permission).

 

I agree with others about that a permission from the local authority (tessa ban) is not necessary for the changes mentioned; legal distance to (Chanute) border line to neighbor is normally one meter if there are openings (doors and/or windows) in a construction, and ½-meter if no openings. Facing a public road (or land) there are different rules; just like there can be special local building clauses.

[NoshowJones]

4 hours ago, crazykopite said:

If it were my property and leased out to you I would expect you to contact me and ask for permission to do any renovations . A few years back I knew a German guy who painted and decorated a property he had on lease , the Thai owner went crazy through him and his family out and a couple of weeks later moved himself and his family in needless to say my German friend was not happy with the outcome so I would say before you do anything speak with the owner first .

If you own the property, you should be allowed to do anything you like with it, as long as you are not putting anyone else out in any way.

Why should you be a cash cow for some local authority? Paying them for this plan and that plan??

[khunPer]

7 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

I have had additions added on the my house, ie, an extra room, have had a double carport, and a large building

built behind it. Never needed any permission to build them, and why should I? Just as long as you are not interfering with anyone else.

 

That is just another good thing about Thailand not being a nanny state.

It's depending where you live, in some areas you don't need complicated paperwork – some Isaan areas has been mention in threads in this forum – in other areas it's a must...

[khunPer]

2 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

If you own the property, you should be allowed to do anything you like with it, as long as you are not putting anyone else out in any way.

Why should you be a cash cow for some local authority? Paying them for this plan and that plan??

I think OP mentioned it's a 6-year lease; however if a business lease some changes are normally accepted and expected...

[NoshowJones]

12 minutes ago, khunPer said:

It's depending where you live, in some areas you don't need complicated paperwork – some Isaan areas has been mention in threads in this forum – in other areas it's a must...

Yes, I live in a large village, some may call it a small town up country.

People just do what they want with improving their property, and rightly so.

[blackcab]

8 hours ago, scorecard said:

 

Yes, Thailand does have such regulations, some national and some local regulations,  and yes permission is required to build and in some cases to alter, but how well is it enforced? How long is a piece of string?

 

Here's a twist, we bought land with a contract to build a luxury bigger house near Jomtien beach in Pattaya.

 

The developer did get a building permit for every house.

 

Later we sold and without a copy of the original building permit the Land Titles Office would not have been able to transfer the ownership to another owner. We showed the original of the build permit to the LTO, and gave them a copy, then smooth sailing to transfer the ownership to another owner.

 

Luckily we still had the permit to build document and luckily we had during the building stage demanded and fought hard for the build permit document from the developer (farang team). Developer team were not customer focused and very difficult to deal with and they left many owners less then happy on many counts.

 

Most new owners never got a copy of the building permit and at the time we sold several others new owners could not sell - no original building permit.

 

Others have told me that this is not generally applied. What's the answer?

 

The answer is you can get a copy of the original permit. In Bangkok, for any building 4 storeys or less you get it from the district office. For buildings 5 storeys and over you get it from the Department of Engineering. We had to get a copy building permit from the Department of Engineering about 2 years ago. It was signed by the deputy governor of Bangkok and cost exactly 5 baht. It came with an official receipt too.

[blackcab]

5 hours ago, ghworker2010 said:

Im disappointed with the greedy designer

 

That's how it is here.  You always have to be aware. Trust is hard won in this country.

[scorecard]

1 hour ago, blackcab said:

 

The answer is you can get a copy of the original permit. In Bangkok, for any building 4 storeys or less you get it from the district office. For buildings 5 storeys and over you get it from the Department of Engineering. We had to get a copy building permit from the Department of Engineering about 2 years ago. It was signed by the deputy governor of Bangkok and cost exactly 5 baht. It came with an official receipt too.

 

Point taken and I don't dispute what you say about Bkk.

 

In other locations it's not necessarily the same picture, in the time period I'm talking about Pattaya town hall were way less than cooperative and subject to negative influences.