Tipping in Thailand and other places- is it expected?

[watcharacters]

18 hours ago, duanebigsby said:

They DO need the tips to earn a living wage.

Restaurant workers take those jobs because with the low pay plus tips it is a decent paying job.

If there were more customers like you it would be a crap job and they'd leave.

I hate the tipping system, but's that's what there is.

I'd much rather the Aussie system of paying workers a living wage and then having no tipping.

You're just stiffing hard working people.

 

 

The guy  from Canada is just saying he wants as much income and wages as he can manage while paying others as little as possible.

 

Simple premise..

 

 

[BobBKK]

Tipping is expected because the wages are very low. If a restaurant has a service charge then I don't tip unless the waitress really helped me somehow. Taxis I tip 100 for a long journey but not for a short journey but I do tip my condo security and staff because it's in my interest to do so.

 

Don't be a jerk you will know when to tip and when not too and saving 100 baht as some sort of 'victory' over the 300 baht a day waitress is not cool. 

[ChiangMaiLightning2143]

Why? Thais don’t tip. Japanese NEVER tip and they are more respected than Farangs here though the Thais like Farang money they look down on you for being stupid at the same time they call you keennok if you don’t hand out 100 baht tips for little or no services!

I never tip more than 20 baht in Thailand. Chiang Mai Tuk Tul zero (farang ripoff priced already). Bangkok Taxi just round out to nearest bill.

[duanebigsby]

6 hours ago, runamok27 said:

You guys do realize that the wait staff in America has to pay taxes on their tips whether they get them or not, right? It’s based on their total sales during their shift and comes to about 15%. In other words, if they don’t make 15% in tips they pay taxes on money they didn’t get. This doesn’t account for the fact that they also have to tip out the bus boys, the bartender and the runners. Although, if you work in a decent restaurant you should fairly easily make 15%.

Plus restaurants have the right to charge wait staff on dine and dashes.

[duanebigsby]

4 hours ago, canuckamuck said:

No sir, Like I said, in the west I tip 10% That was a fair deal before, and the evil restaurateurs have manipulated up to 15 and 20%. The ones who are stealing are the bosses in the restaurants by not paying their staff. If it means an increase on the regular bill, so be it. I have no problem letting the free market level the field. If everybody did as I did there would be some action on this thing which everybody knows has gotten off track. 

I suppose some people get a kick out of flashing their money and being the the Great Gatsby. There should be nothing wrong with that, but it should not have an impact on my bill.

Another thing which is wrong with the current tip system is that the quality of service required and the amount of work required is similar at restaurants across the board, except for fast food joints. But the waitress at a Denny's is going to be lucky to get 10 bucks a table of 4, when  at the higher end joints, they will serve you a spitter if you fail to drop a couple of 20's for their accumulated 5 minutes of attention. I would say that the massively overpriced menu should actually entitle you some immunity from supporting the welfare of their wait staff.

 

Tips are now a tax and they should be a reward. Time to snuff it out

I agree 100% and I applaud the new movement where a restaurant will pay really good wages and then put a sign up saying it's a no tipping establishment. It's slowly gaining momentum in US and Canada. But I disagree with people saying they simply won't give a tip while it's still the norm. 

[duanebigsby]

3 hours ago, torrzent said:

what a load of self-righteous nonsense. 

You are knowingly bucking the cultural norm and screwing the wait staff. Why can't you own up to it at the restaurant?

People here hate National Park dual pricing and refuse to go to the parks. Why don't you refuse going to any restaurant that tipping is normal. You could have done your entire trip eating McDonalds and Burger King where you don't tip.

[NoshowJones]

23 hours ago, 5633572526 said:

USA is a tipping culture. The minimum wage for tipped employees is barely 10% of the minimum wage for others. The original logic was to give waiters the incentive to provide good service and for restaurants to keep prices lower.

we could raise prices 20% to eliminate the need for tipping but that removes a great incentive to provide good service. You did not cheat a restaurant by not tipping you cheated those who served you. Also good you did not eat at the same place twice as service people remember and share information on bad customers. No culture has it right they just have their own culture and people with no respect for others culture should stay home as you give the rest of us a bad name.

As far as I'm concerned, I did not cheat anybody, they are cheating me by expecting me to pay more than the advertised price.

[Stargeezr]

In Thailand I have always tipped when I am sure the server is going to be able

to keep the tip, and the resteraunt or bar owner is not going to take it away.

   I enjoy staying in Hua Hin for part of my stay in Thailand, and I tip in a lot  of

different places. Try to remember that the servng staff make a pittance, compared

to our pensions or stocks and bonds and wages. I do.

Geezer

[sandyf]

On 4/20/2018 at 5:06 PM, possum1931 said:

I was going to America with my girlfriend, and was reading a book about it, the book said that you should allow 20% of your spending money for tips.

Well me being be, I never tipped once in the three weeks I was there, and no! I did not use the same restaurant twice, we were traveling.

Couldn't agree more, you were in a fortunate position to get away with it.

When I went to Canada I stayed with my brother that lived there in Montreal. We were in a bar and we were going to leave so I asked how much. I think she said $9.50 so I gave her $10 and turned to walk away. I didn't catch what she said but I heard my brother say I was ignorant and put some money on the counter. We had a bit of an argument outside and ended up going back to his house. My argument was I would be quite happy to pay more if it was on the price list but not happy to pay an amount determined by someone behind the counter. Apparently the girl had taken the 50 cents as an insult.

I had to bite the bullet a few times or we would not have gone out again.

[jak2002003]

Is it only America that has the compulsory tipping thing?

 

The staff are paid so little they need tips to survive?  And, then their tips are TAXED?!

 

Well, clearly something needs to change there... the employer is abusing the staff... how can it be law the wages are so low? Also, the customers are being make to feel awkward if they don't tip.. and are pressured into it even if the place is no good for fear of reprisals.  

 

Here I will leave a tip if I go to a farang style restaurant and the service / food is good.  If the food is not good, and the waiter and staff are not friendly or are not attentive when I need something, then I will leave no tip.

 

I won't leave a tip in a normal Thai restaurant or eating at a street stall, because that is just stupid and not expected by anyone.  Only exception is the Thai places I frequent regularly and I am friendly with the owners.. then I will usually let them keep the change. 

 

I once ate at a small Thai shop out in the country.  I paid for our meal.. and there was 10 baht change left.  I left it on the table as a tip.  Walking back to our car the old man owner came running towards up shouting frantically... he got up to us out of breath and handed us the 10 baht coin saying we had forgotten it!   So, its clear to me that these places don't get tips usually lol.  

Edited April 22, 2018 by jak2002003

[Scouse123]

1 hour ago, jak2002003 said:

Is it only America that has the compulsory tipping thing?

 

The staff are paid so little they need tips to survive?  And, then their tips are TAXED?!

 

Well, clearly something needs to change there... the employer is abusing the staff... how can it be law the wages are so low? Also, the customers are being make to feel awkward if they don't tip.. and are pressured into it even if the place is no good for fear of reprisals.  

 

Here I will leave a tip if I go to a farang style restaurant and the service / food is good.  If the food is not good, and the waiter and staff are not friendly or are not attentive when I need something, then I will leave no tip.

 

I won't leave a tip in a normal Thai restaurant or eating at a street stall, because that is just stupid and not expected by anyone.  Only exception is the Thai places I frequent regularly and I am friendly with the owners.. then I will usually let them keep the change. 

 

I once ate at a small Thai shop out in the country.  I paid for our meal.. and there was 10 baht change left.  I left it on the table as a tip.  Walking back to our car the old man owner came running towards up shouting frantically... he got up to us out of breath and handed us the 10 baht coin saying we had forgotten it!   So, its clear to me that these places don't get tips usually lol.  

 

Agree with everything in your post.

 

I am at a loss to understand why so many from the USA defend the practice on here instead of petitioning/ lobbying the government to change the law and make service workers have the right to a fair hourly wage. Instead, they berate customers who don't come from this kind of culture for ' stealing the food out of the mouths of service workers '  putting emphasis on that we were wrong and not THEIR system that is at fault. You can't, on the one hand, have a system that you agree is totally out of date, unfair and needs changing and on the other ask us to continuously go along with it.

 

I also recall on any occasions upcountry in Thailand, tips being looked upon as though we were from another planet. I don't do it now, however, I tend to give 20 baht or something to one of the owner's kids that are usually milling around, and this always seems to go down well with the owner of the shop/restaurant.

[jerry921]

3 hours ago, Scouse123 said:

 

Agree with everything in your post.

 

I am at a loss to understand why so many from the USA defend the practice on here instead of petitioning/ lobbying the government to change the law and make service workers have the right to a fair hourly wage. Instead, they berate customers who don't come from this kind of culture for ' stealing the food out of the mouths of service workers '  putting emphasis on that we were wrong and not THEIR system that is at fault. You can't, on the one hand, have a system that you agree is totally out of date, unfair and needs changing and on the other ask us to continuously go along with it.

 

I also recall on any occasions upcountry in Thailand, tips being looked upon as though we were from another planet. I don't do it now, however, I tend to give 20 baht or something to one of the owner's kids that are usually milling around, and this always seems to go down well with the owner of the shop/restaurant.

Actually, if the tipping culture of the USA is your biggest beef with the USA I'll chalk it up as a endorsement. You're welcome to go through the whole process to become a citizen so you can vote. However instances where the voters have voted to raise the minimum wage, such as in Seattle, has proven that the effect is not to create a living wage for restaurant workers but rather to eliminate restaurants and move the workers to the dole.  Only fast food, carry-out and very-high-end places survive. And the culture of tipping is not affected by the increase in the slightest.

 

You're also welcome to simply not visit.

[lovelomsak]

29 minutes ago, jerry921 said:

Actually, if the tipping culture of the USA is your biggest beef with the USA I'll chalk it up as a endorsement. You're welcome to go through the whole process to become a citizen so you can vote. However instances where the voters have voted to raise the minimum wage, such as in Seattle, has proven that the effect is not to create a living wage for restaurant workers but rather to eliminate restaurants and move the workers to the dole.  Only fast food, carry-out and very-high-end places survive. And the culture of tipping is not affected by the increase in the slightest.

 

You're also welcome to simply not visit.

This is your humble opinion of course.

[jerry921]

2 minutes ago, lovelomsak said:

This is your humble opinion of course.

Not just my opinion, actually the seattle info was reported by an independent study. I read a news article a while back. Sorry don't have the link anymore. Try google if you care. By way of full disclosure, the city also paid for a different study that reached the opposite conclusion, as they wanted. Science is for sale these days.

[Scouse123]

Actually, if the tipping culture of the USA is your biggest beef with the USA I'll chalk it up as a endorsement. You're welcome to go through the whole process to become a citizen so you can vote. However instances where the voters have voted to raise the minimum wage, such as in Seattle, has proven that the effect is not to create a living wage for restaurant workers but rather to eliminate restaurants and move the workers to the dole.  Only fast food, carry-out and very-high-end places survive. And the culture of tipping is not affected by the increase in the slightest.   You're also welcome to simply not visit.

 

 

  

I haven't visited and have no intention of doing so, the USA has never appealed to me, as I have previously said I have visited Canada twice.

 

With comments like yours, I will stick to Canada or South America.

 

Your comment about my biggest beef being the tipping culture in the USA and nothing else is way off. We were talking about tipping culture in Thailand and other countries and nothing else. That was the title of the thread,!

 

You have taken it as an attack on your beloved Star spangled banner and country and I wasn't in any shape or form.

 

A bit sad really that you find it necessary to derail the topic and just want to talk about the US of A in general terms.

 

If you are so certain it would not benefit the average service worker, why is it constantly in the news where they themselves are asking for a minimum wage?

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

[sirineou]

9 minutes ago, Scouse123 said:

 

 

I haven't visited and have no intention of doing so. I will stick to Canada or South America.


Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

 And Trump says border controls are ineffective  .

Edited April 22, 2018 by sirineou

[balo]

15 hours ago, Scouse123 said:

I am at a loss to understand why so many from the USA defend the practice on here instead of petitioning/ lobbying the government to change the law and make service workers have the right to a fair hourly wage

It's difficult to change the mindset of Americans , whether its the gun laws or tipping. 

But sad to see they can not adapt to Thai culture when they move here and think they need to continue tipping just because they grew up that way , 

 

BobBKK is a good example , tipping a Thai taxi driver 100 baht is just crazy . 

 

 

  

[jerry921]

7 hours ago, Scouse123 said:

If you are so certain it would not benefit the average service worker, why is it constantly in the news where they themselves are asking for a minimum wage?

If you're a reporter interested in promulgating the left-wing narrative, it's very easy to find an uneducated person that thinks a law mandating a higher wage for their job would be a good thing. It is a good thing for those few waiters that get to keep their jobs. It's also pretty easy to find a left-coast liberal or quasi-socialist with a naive understanding of economics to pour out their heart on TV about people who "deserve a living wage" for a job that isn't worth a living wage.

 

I do agree though that the thread is supposed to be about tipping in Thailand and not about minimum wage in the US. I wasn't the one that rolled out the "living wage" canard in the first place or dragged the US minimum wage into it. But I'll stop pointing out economics if people stop with the living wage naivety.

 

I agree that US people visiting Thailand should figure out what's Thai-appropriate and pretty much follow along. I read these threads with interest precisely to learn about what is Thai-appropriate.

[canuckamuck]

They should have it so that when  you are done your meal and are on the way out there will be line of waiters sitting with theirs backs against the wall and their hat out or a tin can  by their side. They can make little cardboard signs that say something like, "I have a real job but it doesn't pay enough. Please help, Just 20% of your bill to get me on my feet." Maybe some can learn harmonica or something.

[duanebigsby]

20 hours ago, Scouse123 said:

 

I am at a loss to understand why so many from the USA defend the practice on here instead of petitioning/ lobbying the government to change the law and make service workers have the right to a fair hourly wage. Instead, they berate customers who don't come from this kind of culture for ' stealing the food out of the mouths of service workers ' 

I don't think people from USA on here are defending the tipping culture.

Many people are indeed lobbying the government for law changes for restaurant staff. It'll take years to change the poor wages/tipping system.

 

More and more restaurants in USA and Canada are paying the staff good wages and then putting of signage indicating it's a non-tipping establishment. I hope this trend continues.

 

In the meantime, when people refuse to tip the person making $2.20 an hour they pretty much are

' stealing the food out of the mouths of service workers ' 

[duanebigsby]

4 hours ago, jerry921 said:

If you're a reporter interested in promulgating the left-wing narrative, it's very easy to find an uneducated person that thinks a law mandating a higher wage for their job would be a good thing. It is a good thing for those few waiters that get to keep their jobs. It's also pretty easy to find a left-coast liberal or quasi-socialist with a naive understanding of economics to pour out their heart on TV about people who "deserve a living wage" for a job that isn't worth a living wage.

 

I do agree though that the thread is supposed to be about tipping in Thailand and not about minimum wage in the US. I wasn't the one that rolled out the "living wage" canard in the first place or dragged the US minimum wage into it. But I'll stop pointing out economics if people stop with the living wage naivety.

 

I agree that US people visiting Thailand should figure out what's Thai-appropriate and pretty much follow along. I read these threads with interest precisely to learn about what is Thai-appropriate.

for a job that isn't worth a living wage.

 

4 hours ago, jerry921 said:

 pour out their heart on TV about people who "deserve a living wage" for a job that isn't worth a living wage.

 

I do agree though that the thread is supposed to be about tipping in Thailand and not about minimum wage in the US. 

 

I agree that US people visiting Thailand should figure out what's Thai-appropriate and pretty much follow along. I read these threads with interest precisely to learn about what is Thai-appropriate.

I can't believe that you think people who have jobs you think beneath you shouldn't be paid enough for food and shelter. Garbage collectors make a decent wage in the US why not wait staff? 

 

The thread is about tipping in Thailand and OTHER places.

 

If you agree that people from US are expected to follow what's Thai-appropriate then you should understand the criticism of UK and Aussies refusing to tip in the US.

[jerry921]

1 hour ago, duanebigsby said:

I can't believe that you think people who have jobs you think beneath you shouldn't be paid enough for food and shelter. Garbage collectors make a decent wage in the US why not wait staff?

It's not about me, or about what I think of the person doing the job, or what the person doing the job does with the money. It's about the worth of the work in an absolute value-added sense when there are millions of people that can and will do it, no education and little training required. Regardless of what job one is talking about, if that job is only worth 5 bucks an hour in terms of value-added, and you pass a law saying it has to be paid 10 bucks an hour then no one will pay 10 bucks for a 5 buck job and the job will disappear. The only way you can keep that job around is to find a way to double the productivity of the worker.

 

This is all settled textbook economics.

[Scouse123]

It's not about me, or about what I think of the person doing the job, or what the person doing the job does with the money. It's about the worth of the work in an absolute value-added sense when there are millions of people that can and will do it, no education and little training required. Regardless of what job one is talking about, if that job is only worth 5 bucks an hour in terms of value-added, and you pass a law saying it has to be paid 10 bucks an hour then no one will pay 10 bucks for a 5 buck job and the job will disappear. The only way you can keep that job around is to find a way to double the productivity of the worker.
 
This is all settled textbook economics.

And who decides what a job is worth by the hour? You can apply that logic to anything you want.Traffic wardens are not highly trained, nor are toilet cleaners or cleaners in general, factory line workers, porters, hotel maids, building caretakers, employed taxi drivers etc etc

These people you are describing are human beings with thoughts, families, lives, bills such as electricity and gas, taxes, the same as everybody else. Minimum wages were introduced in the UK to stop exploitation and sweatshop labour.

This has nothing to do with liberal views and I am no liberal by the way.

These service workers get up, get themselves made presentable, make their way to work, do their shift and pay tax contributing to the economy. They must have the ability to read, write, converse and be pleasant in a correct manner, assist, clean up, etc yet you are referring to them as not worth $10 an hour.

We are only suggesting that the emphasis be moved to the employer and make them pay a living wage to enable these people to walk with their head held high and have money for food and shelter.if prices in restaurant menus must go up to reflect this, so be it and fair enough.At least it's out in the open and not buried into the bill.

The general public will know where they stand when they read a menu and many people will be happier especially in high tourist areas, where the customers are not from the US or from tipping cultures.

Some of your countrymen obviously disagree with your views as they say it is already happening in the US right now and restaurants are making these changes.

If you make work an unviable option by paying ridiculously unfair wages, people will look at other ways to make ends meet that certainly don't contribute to society or the economy.

This tipping of 15-20% of a restaurant bill is actually another tax on the bill plus VAT or whatever taxes you have in the US and expected to be paid by the diner, and placing the emphasis on the diner instead of the restaurant.

Just because ' it's always been done that way ' doesn't make it right.




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[balo]

Maybe the Americans who continue their tipping habits here do it because they feel they live in a third world country and want to do a good deed and help the poor people ?   

[jerry921]

1 hour ago, Scouse123 said:

And who decides what a job is worth by the hour?

Either you have a free market system or you have socialism/communism. Under the free market it's supply and demand, and if the job doesn't pay well enough no one will do it. Under socialism/communism you have some community organizer type who never ran a business but thinks he's smarter than everyone else pick a number.

 

2 hours ago, Scouse123 said:

This has nothing to do with liberal views.

 

 

Nonsense. It's a constant hobby horse of the left in the US to defy the wisdom of economics and try to manipulate the market, in this case by creating a "minimum living wage", which would, if enacted, result in mass unemployment and mass government dependency. 

 

If those on the left (in the US) were serious about raising wages for Americans, they'd want to stop adding low-skilled workers to compete for the low-wage jobs. The oversupply of low-skilled workers has depressed wages for decades. Reduce the supply and wages will rise. The reason janitorial services workers get paid so little is there is an unending supply of people coming to the US from countries like Mexico where the minimum wage is five US dollars per day. What about raising that minimum wage instead?

 

2 hours ago, Scouse123 said:

Some of your countrymen obviously disagree with your views

Well of course. There are a lot of economics deniers out there operating from their emotions and wanting the numbers to just magically work out. They continually get surprised by the predicable unintended consequences of their favored policies.

 

To be clear, I'm not arguing for or against tipping. Don't really like it much, myself, but the system is what it is.

[dbrenn]

Tipping is a horrible Americanism. Thailand is better off without it.