If you have two jobs, what is appropriate visa for you?

[elviajero]

1 hour ago, greenchair said:

6 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

There are a few cases where a work permit is not required. R&D at a institute or university is one of them. 

This from the alien working act.

 

 

Well I remember talking about section 4 in several threads. People abused me quite unfairly. 

I have been saying for years if you are married with visa you can tutor without a wp. 

Perfectly legal. 

Finally. Thank you 

Your statement is wrong. Tutoring, may or may not qualify depending on the employer/sponsor etc., and being married has nothing to do with it. Some duties don't require a WP whether married or not.

[Get Real]

1 hour ago, LolaS said:

I have a contract, individual and collective one, I dont understand your point with WP???

 

Yes, exactly!!! Sometimes... not to mention... even inside department between divisions, not talk to each. Quite a shock for me

 

do you have any evedience that I need one

 

what kind of courses? the one that are comemricial or the one belong to program approved by HC

 

1 hour ago, LolaS said:

Dear Grandpa DipStick people have two or three professions on different continents. It is normal in R&D

 

Yes. not all labor is manual.

 

some of them have, the one that are emloyed as stuff and foreign language teacher

 

It is only 700 km, one of my colleague hold two positions, one in Okinawa, another one in South Africa. do you want proof ?

I must congratulate you for having such a nice and welcoming attitude, when you are asking for help in a forum. Is that something you get as a bonus with a higher academic education?
Anyway, you are going to fit right in here in Thailand. All that consider themself as upp class look down on and think they can treat so called lower population like shit.

However, you are going to need WP for both works, if your conditions regarding the works mentioned has changed from R&D.

To judge from your attitude, you already consider that you know everything. So why bother to ask?

I sincerely hope you sort it out,and not just believe something that ain´t true out of your emploters lust make things easy for themselfs. That can unfortunately end hard for you.

[LukKrueng]

1 hour ago, LolaS said:

 

what kind of courses? the one that are comemricial or the one belong to program approved by HC

academic courses. Part of MBA program

[LolaS]

2 minutes ago, Get Real said:

 

I must congratulate you for having such a nice and welcoming attitude, when you are asking for help in a forum. Is that something you get as a bonus with a higher academic education?
Anyway, you are going to fit right in here in Thailand. All that consider themself as upp class look down on and think they can treat so called lower population like shit.

However, you are going to need WP for both works, if your conditions regarding the works mentioned has changed from R&D.

To judge from your attitude, you already consider that you know everything. So why bother to ask?

I sincerely hope you sort it out,and not just believe something that ain´t true out of your emploters lust make things easy for themselfs. That can unfortunately end hard for you.

wonder why I didnt need in first 5 years.

[LolaS]

3 minutes ago, LukKrueng said:

academic courses. Part of MBA program

yes for that one you need Work permit, because it is not academic position. 

[darksidedog]

A number of Off Topic posts, some more bickering posts and replies have been removed.

Please refrain from insults and name calling. Next offender gets a posting holiday.

[elviajero]

2 hours ago, LivinLOS said:

HR often lies or is incompetent on this topic, however its you not them who face punishments. 

Both the employer and employee can be prosecuted. 

[NanLaew]

3 hours ago, LolaS said:

Problem in this forum is people jump to conclusion too much,

Almost as problematic as the posts that are initially ultra-light on specifics, particularly when the subject matter is rather esoteric, nuanced or otherwise unique to academia and then the poster gets a cob on when the thread goes off on an unnecessary tangent. 

 

3 hours ago, LolaS said:

as far as I know, harboring illegal employers is more big of a deal of law enforcement then working illegally.

Yes, one has broken the country's labour laws but ultimately it is the Immigration division of the RTP that does the needful on behalf of the Labour Dept.

 

[LolaS]

2 hours ago, NanLaew said:

Almost as problematic as the posts that are initially ultra-light on specifics, particularly when the subject matter is rather esoteric, nuanced or otherwise unique to academia and then the poster gets a cob on when the thread goes off on an unnecessary tangent. 

 

Yes, one has broken the country's labour laws but ultimately it is the Immigration division of the RTP that does the needful on behalf of the Labour Dept.

 

I dont understand you? why wouldnt immigration cooperate with labour department? are you saying that all these years, they did wrong?

are you implying that Immigration dont follow the law?

 

this is hard accusation, do ou have any evidence for this?

why would they ask from other to copy WP, but not from me? 

are you alluding that I do something illegal?

[Get Real]

4 hours ago, LolaS said:

wonder why I didnt need in first 5 years.

However, you are going to need WP for both works, if your conditions regarding the works mentioned has changed from R&D.

 

Above I have copied, what you just, wondered about in your reply. Guess you just missed the "if" that was written there.

As you already have been reading in the regulations posted to you regarding WP for different works, and where you not need it. 
Then you should not have any more problem to figure this out, right? It´s not rocket sience, you know. 

[LolaS]

43 minutes ago, Get Real said:

However, you are going to need WP for both works, if your conditions regarding the works mentioned has changed from R&D.

 

Above I have copied, what you just, wondered about in your reply. Guess you just missed the "if" that was written there.

As you already have been reading in the regulations posted to you regarding WP for different works, and where you not need it. 
Then you should not have any more problem to figure this out, right? It´s not rocket sience, you know. 

no it doesnt change on the north, but I am not sure why are you trying to explain to me about Work Permit?

 

I asked about visa. this is my concern!

[FritsSikkink]

1 hour ago, LolaS said:

I dont understand you? why wouldnt immigration cooperate with labour department? are you saying that all these years, they did wrong?

are you implying that Immigration dont follow the law?

 

this is hard accusation, do ou have any evidence for this?

why would they ask from other to copy WP, but not from me? 

are you alluding that I do something illegal?

You do, you work without a work permit, which was ok when you did R&D but not after you changed position.

[SteveB2]

Hi LolaS,

 

Although an initial quite specific location of work address and duties description must be in your work permit, the Thai work permit allows you to add additional places of work , that can sometimes not be specifically defined due to the nature of the work duties. The same goes for additional duties - these can also be added.

 

The description of additional location(s) and even the duties carried out at the additional locations can be of a quite broad nature.

 

Here's a few I've used successfully in the past that have been added to old work permits used in both Chonburi and Surathani provinces.

 

For instance:-

• 'Teaching water sports in the Gulf of Siam'
  • Non specific location covering a massive geographical location.
  • Non specific duties covering a wide range of water sports activities
• 'Teaching water sports in hotel swimming pools'
  • Non specific location covering all hotel in Thailand.
  • Non specific duties covering a wide range of water sports activities

 

So how about you have added to your work permit as an additional location...

 

• Lecturing students in University conference rooms
  • Non specific university location
  • Non specific duties covering a wide range of water sports activities

Should be easy to get implemented.

 

Hope this info helps 

[greenchair]

7 hours ago, LolaS said:

do you have any evidence for that?

 

as far as I know, harboring illegal employers is more big of a deal of law enforcement then working illegally.

 

As I am aware, if someone hire you illegally, that one will have more problem than worker.

The one that hires illegally gets 100000 baht fine. 

The worker can go to prison or at best be deported and blacklisted, never to be allowed back in Thailand. The employers are rarely prosecuted, if ever. 

[William C F Pierce]

 

You want help and to be understood. Yet you are so tetchy to so many peoples replies. The fact is you should not be in any form or type of educational institute, because your English grammar is atrocious. It is no wonder that the Thai standard of English is so low. When it is subjugated by your know it all low mentality.

[greenchair]

6 hours ago, elviajero said:

Your statement is wrong. Tutoring, may or may not qualify depending on the employer/sponsor etc., and being married has nothing to do with it. Some duties don't require a WP whether married or not.

Well if you are working while on a tourist visa, then you are not following the intention of the visa. So that is illegal. 

But if you are married but work as a computer technician, you would need a wp. But if you are married and working as a tutor at a language center, then no wp required. 

Although most get a wp anyway, because they have not read section 4.

[greenchair]

8 hours ago, LolaS said:

Dear Grandpa DipStick people have two or three professions on different continents. It is normal in R&D

 

Yes. not all labor is manual.

 

some of them have, the one that are emloyed as stuff and foreign language teacher

 

It is only 700 km, one of my colleague hold two positions, one in Okinawa, another one in South Africa. do you want proof ?

You're just rude. 

 

[elviajero]

1 hour ago, greenchair said:

8 hours ago, elviajero said:

Your statement is wrong. Tutoring, may or may not qualify depending on the employer/sponsor etc., and being married has nothing to do with it. Some duties don't require a WP whether married or not.

Well if you are working while on a tourist visa, then you are not following the intention of the visa. So that is illegal. 

But if you are married but work as a computer technician, you would need a wp. But if you are married and working as a tutor at a language center, then no wp required. 

Although most get a wp anyway, because they have not read section 4.

You can repeat it as often as you like, but being married has absolutely no influence on whether or not a job requires a WP.

 

Any occupation/employment/position requires permission unless it is exempt. Being married does not exempt any occupation/employment/position requiring permission from needing permission.

[LolaS]

2 hours ago, SteveB2 said:

Hi LolaS,

 

Although an initial quite specific location of work address and duties description must be in your work permit, the Thai work permit allows you to add additional places of work , that can sometimes not be specifically defined due to the nature of the work duties. The same goes for additional duties - these can also be added.

 

The description of additional location(s) and even the duties carried out at the additional locations can be of a quite broad nature.

 

Here's a few I've used successfully in the past that have been added to old work permits used in both Chonburi and Surathani provinces.

 

For instance:-

• 'Teaching water sports in the Gulf of Siam'
  • Non specific location covering a massive geographical location.
  • Non specific duties covering a wide range of water sports activities
• 'Teaching water sports in hotel swimming pools'
  • Non specific location covering all hotel in Thailand.
  • Non specific duties covering a wide range of water sports activities

 

So how about you have added to your work permit as an additional location...

 

• Lecturing students in University conference rooms
  • Non specific university location
  • Non specific duties covering a wide range of water sports activities

Should be easy to get implemented.

 

Hope this info helps 

Steve, thank you, 

my job is not Lecturer, it is only small portion of my job, account less than 20% of working hours. What should I do with other 80%?

[LolaS]

2 hours ago, greenchair said:

The one that hires illegally gets 100000 baht fine. 

The worker can go to prison or at best be deported and blacklisted, never to be allowed back in Thailand. The employers are rarely prosecuted, if ever. 

 

2 hours ago, William C F Pierce said:

 

You want help and to be understood. Yet you are so tetchy to so many peoples replies. The fact is you should not be in any form or type of educational institute, because your English grammar is atrocious. It is no wonder that the Thai standard of English is so low. When it is subjugated by your know it all low mentality.

again, I am not English teacher or tutor!!!!! 

[FritsSikkink]

1 hour ago, LolaS said:

 

again, I am not English teacher or tutor!!!!! 

Neither a professor:

For regular faculty (i.e., not counting administrative positions such as chairmanships or deanships, nor positions considered "staff" rather than faculty), the descending hierarchy in most cases is:

• Distinguished, Endowed or University Professor (Other such titles of special distinction vary by institution)
• Professor ("Full Professor", i.e., the destination of the "tenure track," upon exhausting all normally-expected promotions)
• Associate Professor (A mid-level, usually tenured, professor)
• Assistant Professor (typically entry-level for "tenure track" positions which lead to Associate Professor)
• Research Associate, Lecturer, and Instructor (usually non-tenure-track positions, sometimes with their own respective ranking hierarchies)

 

[Get Real]

8 hours ago, LolaS said:

no it doesnt change on the north, but I am not sure why are you trying to explain to me about Work Permit?

 

I asked about visa. this is my concern!

Visa is not important in your situation, but ok.

You can hold Non-O for the reasons of marriage or having a child with a thai national. You are allowed to work with that type of visa.
You can hold Non-B, which is for business and work. You are also allowed to work with that type of visa, off course.

If you are allowed to work will depend on the rules regarding work permit. If you have that or if it´s needed.
If you not have and it´s needed for your work, then you are not allowed to work
If not needed then you are allowed to work.

Hope that answers your question, as 25-30 comment already tried to explain the same.

Edited April 22, 2018 by Get Real

[LolaS]

8 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

Neither a professor:

For regular faculty (i.e., not counting administrative positions such as chairmanships or deanships, nor positions considered "staff" rather than faculty), the descending hierarchy in most cases is:

• Distinguished, Endowed or University Professor (Other such titles of special distinction vary by institution)
• Professor ("Full Professor", i.e., the destination of the "tenure track," upon exhausting all normally-expected promotions)
• Associate Professor (A mid-level, usually tenured, professor)
• Assistant Professor (typically entry-level for "tenure track" positions which lead to Associate Professor)
• Research Associate, Lecturer, and Instructor (usually non-tenure-track positions, sometimes with their own respective ranking hierarchies)

 

1

yes, Assistant and adjanct assistant.

[LolaS]

4 hours ago, Get Real said:

Visa is not important in your situation, but ok.

You can hold Non-O for the reasons of marriage or having a child with a thai national. You are allowed to work with that type of visa.
You can hold Non-B, which is for business and work. You are also allowed to work with that type of visa, off course.

If you are allowed to work will depend on the rules regarding work permit. If you have that or if it´s needed.
If you not have and it´s needed for your work, then you are not allowed to work
If not needed then you are allowed to work.

Hope that answers your question, as 25-30 comment already tried to explain the same.

Do you know where in BKK I can ask if I need work permit? Is it advisable to ask them if 5 years I was without WP in CNX?

[FritsSikkink]

17 minutes ago, LolaS said:

Do you know where in BKK I can ask if I need work permit? Is it advisable to ask them if 5 years I was without WP in CNX?

You need to do 2 things:

1) For you job in BKK you need a work permit, no need to ask if you need it. Best work together with the university there to get one as you need a lot of paperwork from them and they should have experience with this.

2) You were doing R&D in Chiang Mai, apparently they see this not as work. Now you have 2 options depending on what is stated in your current contract:

a) Your contract still has R&D in there: You are doing lectures, if a student/parent gets pissed of with you, they could have a friend look into your paper work (remote chance) and give you some issues. To be 100% legal, change the contract with your current title and get a work permit.

Your contract states lecturer: You need a work permit.

[NanLaew]

14 hours ago, LolaS said:

I dont understand you? why wouldnt immigration cooperate with labour department? are you saying that all these years, they did wrong?

are you implying that Immigration dont follow the law?

 

this is hard accusation, do ou have any evidence for this?

why would they ask from other to copy WP, but not from me? 

are you alluding that I do something illegal?

I never said that the Labour office doesn't cooperate with the Immigration police. If everyone has a WP when a WP is required, ne'er the twain shall meet. It is only when someone comes up short of a WP that the Labour department hands-off any 'disposal' to the Immigration department. If you break a Labour department law (typically working without a WP) then you are punished by the Immigration department for violating your Immigration status (typically working with the incorrect visa).

 

If you need evidence of Immigration police doing things 'their way' observe how each and every official application form states that the applicant must submit the application in person. Then consider the amount of foreigners, either through agents or through HR departments with the right connections, who get the needful done without the applicant going anywhere near any Immigration office. Some happily avoid personally attending the Labour office and the Tax office as well.

 

I never suggested that you have done anything illegal in the past. If you were engaged in R&D in academia, then the relevant HR department were probably correct in saying that you didn't need a WP. However, your subsequent disclosures suggest that your job description has changed and at least one of your planned employments typically mandates that a WP be applied for.

 

It is up to the foreigner, any foreigner, to do 100% due diligence on any and all aspects of their employment and immigration status in Thailand and never blindly accept the word of HR, peers or bar-stool lawyers or even those that strive to offer earnest advice on these hallowed pages. This is more salient advice when one considers the considerable tightening of the rules over the past 3 to 5 years for 'border hopping' and the total revamp of the Tourist type visa to include who qualifies for one.

 

Either way, your post was all about having the correct visa and that has already been confirmed. The question of the legality of you working without a WP has been raised as an adjunct and if you are now questioning some HR departments advice that has stood you in good stead for the past 5 years, then you have learned something.

 

Good luck.

[LolaS]

40 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

You need to do 2 things:

1) For you job in BKK you need a work permit, no need to ask if you need it. Best work together with the university there to get one as you need a lot of paperwork from them and they should have experience with this.

2) You were doing R&D in Chiang Mai, apparently they see this not as work. Now you have 2 options depending on what is stated in your current contract:

a) Your contract still has R&D in there: You are doing lectures, if a student/parent gets pissed of with you, they could have a friend look into your paper work (remote chance) and give you some issues. To be 100% legal, change the contract with your current title and get a work permit.

Your contract states lecturer: You need a work permit.

No my contract doesnt states lecturer.

[LolaS]

3 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

I never said that the Labour office doesn't cooperate with the Immigration police. If everyone has a WP when a WP is required, ne'er the twain shall meet. It is only when someone comes up short of a WP that the Labour department hands-off any 'disposal' to the Immigration department. If you break a Labour department law (typically working without a WP) then you are punished by the Immigration department for violating your Immigration status (typically working with the incorrect visa).

 

If you need evidence of Immigration police doing things 'their way' observe how each and every official application form states that the applicant must submit the application in person. Then consider the amount of foreigners, either through agents or through HR departments with the right connections, who get the needful done without the applicant going anywhere near any Immigration office. Some happily avoid personally attending the Labour office and the Tax office as well.

 

I never suggested that you have done anything illegal in the past. If you were engaged in R&D in academia, then the relevant HR department were probably correct in saying that you didn't need a WP. However, your subsequent disclosures suggest that your job description has changed and at least one of your planned employments typically mandates that a WP be applied for.

 

It is up to the foreigner, any foreigner, to do 100% due diligence on any and all aspects of their employment and immigration status in Thailand and never blindly accept the word of HR, peers or bar-stool lawyers or even those that strive to offer earnest advice on these hallowed pages. This is more salient advice when one considers the considerable tightening of the rules over the past 3 to 5 years for 'border hopping' and the total revamp of the Tourist type visa to include who qualifies for one.

 

Either way, your post was all about having the correct visa and that has already been confirmed. The question of the legality of you working without a WP has been raised as an adjunct and if you are now questioning some HR departments advice that has stood you in good stead for the past 5 years, then you have learned something.

 

Good luck.

I question why would they allow me to lecture 5 years without Work permit? and how to explain in BKK why I didn't have WP if they ask for one?

Are they going to ask me to get a new visa? the one I have expired 5 years ago, I am on extension based on contract, which state that I have also part devoted to students. why no one realized in 5 years that it was illegal to have students without WP. but again why would HR and legal department make mistake?

[FritsSikkink]

58 minutes ago, LolaS said:

why would HR and legal department make mistake?

Don't think it is a mistake but more convenient for them because:

1) you are vulnerable when you are in an non legal situation, the labour office (who supplies work permits) is a strong defender of the employees when there is an issue between employer and employee. 

2) it will cost them quite some effort / money to get the paperwork done.

3) they think they will not have a problem

 

Edited April 23, 2018 by FritsSikkink

[ubonjoe]

1 hour ago, LolaS said:

I question why would they allow me to lecture 5 years without Work permit? and how to explain in BKK why I didn't have WP if they ask for one?

Are they going to ask me to get a new visa? the one I have expired 5 years ago, I am on extension based on contract, which state that I have also part devoted to students. why no one realized in 5 years that it was illegal to have students without WP. but again why would HR and legal department make mistake?

Apparently your extensions of stay have been applied for under one of the categories that does not require a work permit.

You would not be able to get another visa or extension if it was needed unless you were to end your current job and relocated to Bangkok.

You could get a work permit in Bangkok for the job if your employer was willing to sponsor it. You might need permission from your current employer to apply for it though.