Israeli forces kill three Gaza border protesters, wound 600 - medics

[simple1]

6 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

There are non military related farms, homes, schools, hospitals and other residential related occupancies in close proximity to the border fence. The fence is there because arabs have crossed over and murdered Israelis. The land is uncontested and is not part of Gaza or the west bank. 

The arabs, many of whom are armed are seeking to cross through the  border and to invade into sovereign Israeli territory, land to which the arabs have no legal claim or right to enter. They are doing this through violent means.

 

And some condemn Israel for defending itself? Brilliant.

 

Who claims the unilaterally imposed buffer zone paralleling the fence between Gaza and Israel is uncontested? 

[dexterm]

1 hour ago, simple1 said:

 

Who claims the unilaterally imposed buffer zone paralleling the fence between Gaza and Israel is uncontested? 

Not just the (unilaterally declared by Israel) buffer zone is contested herding Palestinians into the Gaza ghetto more tightly, there is not even official international recognition of the border itself ..only Israel self imposing it again. The only officially recognized borders Israel has are with Egypt and Jordan...the ones with the Palestinians (and Syria and Lebanon) keep moving at Israel's whim. That's why the demonstrators have the right to contend them..they used to live the other side of the fence, before they were ethnically cleansed.

[canthai55]

This whole debate - and quite a stretch calling a one-sided dialogue a debate - will never be resolved unless and until the Int'l community acts. Israel cares nothing about anyone but its own citizens, and refuses to try for a solution, instead - as posted above - locks up the Palestinian people, denies them free access to the outside world, controls the power and water supply, and refuses medicine to reach its hospitals. Just like Warsaw during WWII. They can not see - or refuse to recognize - that they are doing the exact same thing to others as was done to them.

Until the Int' l community stands up to them - which will never happen so long as the USA backs them - the status quo will prevail.

The Pro Israeli apologists will not come out and accuse me of hating Jews.

I hate no one.

[dexterm]

The OP penultimate paragraph explains the whole conflict.

>>Named the 'Great March of Return', the protest action revives a longstanding demand for the right of return of Palestinian refugees to towns and villages which their families fled from, or were driven out of, when the state of Israel was created in 1948. 

...70% of the Palestinians in Gaza (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinians) either themselves or their parents or grandparents once lived on the other side of the fence in what is now Israel. That's why they are called refugees. People flee or are pushed out in time of war. Never mind if you disagree about Zionist militias commmitting war crimes by ethnically cleansing back then, it is a war crime today according to international law not to allow refugees to return to their homes.

 

"The right is formulated in several modern treaties and conventions, most notably in the 1948 Universal Declaration of Human Rights, the 1966 International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights and the 1948 Fourth Geneva Convention. The Geneva Conventions, it has been argued, have passed into customary international law and that the right of return is binding on non-signatories to the conventions" [Israel is a signatory of the Geneva Convention]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_return

 

>>Israel refuses any right of return, fearing that the country would lose its Jewish majority.

..I don't subscribe to the opinion that world Jewry or even the majority of Israeli Jews regard themselves as the chosen people, although there may be some ultra nationalist Zionists and religious fanatics who do so. But Zionists are certainly religionist supremacists. They can only maintain Jewish minority rule in Palestine by imposing a whole range of discriminatory apartheid laws against the majority indigenous population - Palestinians.

 

Palestinians and Israeli Jews are geographic neighbors for eternity. One day when peace comes and after decades of neighbors getting used to the peace and prosperity, they will ultimately meld into one country anyway.

[Elfin]

11 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

The land is uncontested and is not part of Gaza or the west bank. 

Ummm Geriatric. The Gazans have farming land on the border fence. The buffer zone is 300 metres but the IDF may push that back to a kilometre or more, just depending on how many farmers they might want to murder on any given day.

By using the word "Arabs" I assume you mean the Palestinians and not the Israeli Arabs.

If you hate Arabs so much, then why do you go to Israel, which is in the Middle East???

Edited April 29, 2018 by Elfin

[geriatrickid]

17 hours ago, simple1 said:

 

Who claims the unilaterally imposed buffer zone paralleling the fence between Gaza and Israel is uncontested? 

The attackers are not seeking to take back the buffer zone. Their goal is to invade Israel and to rampage. Hamas and Islamic Jihad's goal is to use the protests as cover to launch violent attacks into Israel.

 

The buffer zone  was implemented because of the constant attacks from Gaza. Tunnels have been repeatedly built from Gaza to Israel with the intent of launching  violent attacks. I previously posted the most recent concrete reinforced, air ventilated and electrically serviced tunnel that Israel discovered.  Israle would not need to enforce a buffer zone if the Arabs were not building attack tunnels and launching attacks including mortar and rockets from the area the buffer zone now covers. Israel has a right to defend itself from violent attacks and the buffer zone saves both Israel and Arab lives.  If you want the buffer zone land back, stop trying to murder Israelis.

[Thorgal]

14 hours ago, Elfin said:

Ummm Geriatric. The Gazans have farming land on the border fence. The buffer zone is 300 metres but the IDF may push that back to a kilometre or more, just depending on how many farmers they might want to murder on any given day.

By using the word "Arabs" I assume you mean the Palestinians and not the Israeli Arabs.

If you hate Arabs so much, then why do you go to Israel, which is in the Middle East???

300m buffer zone?

 

From source:

 

"In reality, attacks against civilians take place anywhere upto approximately 1.5 kilometres inside the border fence. This constitutes approximately 17% of the total territory of the Gaza Strip."

 

http://imemc.org/article/71548/

 

[geriatrickid]

14 hours ago, Elfin said:

Ummm Geriatric. The Gazans have farming land on the border fence. The buffer zone is 300 metres but the IDF may push that back to a kilometre or more, just depending on how many farmers they might want to murder on any given day.

By using the word "Arabs" I assume you mean the Palestinians and not the Israeli Arabs.

If you hate Arabs so much, then why do you go to Israel, which is in the Middle East???

I do not hate Arabs. I can understand the Israel position without need of  traveling to Israel, How hard is it for you to   acknowledge that multiple violent attacks were launched from the areas now subject to the buffer zone? In Gaza there is no such thing as a non combatant. Everyone is a combatant. Children are used to carry explosives and are intentionally sacrificed, women carry IEDs and  will engage in hysteria on cue, and the mentally infirm are used to deliver bombs as well. Hospitals store munitions and hold  terror group  offices. Schools are used for military purposes etc.

[canthai55]

7 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

  Israle would not need to enforce a buffer zone

Israel would not need to enforce a buffer zone, build a giant concrete wall, and shoot defenseless civilians if they offered a fair and equitable settlement to the people of Palestine.

Every apologist says the same thing - we have to protect ourselves.

No need if you were not an occupying force bent on the destruction of a people.

And you wonder why they fight back - I would too if you did it to me, as any rational person would if faced with an ongoing genocide.

[simple1]

7 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

The attackers are not seeking to take back the buffer zone. Their goal is to invade Israel and to rampage. Hamas and Islamic Jihad's goal is to use the protests as cover to launch violent attacks into Israel.

 

The buffer zone  was implemented because of the constant attacks from Gaza. Tunnels have been repeatedly built from Gaza to Israel with the intent of launching  violent attacks. I previously posted the most recent concrete reinforced, air ventilated and electrically serviced tunnel that Israel discovered.  Israle would not need to enforce a buffer zone if the Arabs were not building attack tunnels and launching attacks including mortar and rockets from the area the buffer zone now covers. Israel has a right to defend itself from violent attacks and the buffer zone saves both Israel and Arab lives.  If you want the buffer zone land back, stop trying to murder Israelis.

Blah, blah - short answer - buffer zone unilaterally enforced by Israel

Edited April 30, 2018 by simple1

[dexterm]

8 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

The attackers are not seeking to take back the buffer zone. Their goal is to invade Israel and to rampage. Hamas and Islamic Jihad's goal is to use the protests as cover to launch violent attacks into Israel.

 

The buffer zone  was implemented because of the constant attacks from Gaza. Tunnels have been repeatedly built from Gaza to Israel with the intent of launching  violent attacks. I previously posted the most recent concrete reinforced, air ventilated and electrically serviced tunnel that Israel discovered.  Israle would not need to enforce a buffer zone if the Arabs were not building attack tunnels and launching attacks including mortar and rockets from the area the buffer zone now covers. Israel has a right to defend itself from violent attacks and the buffer zone saves both Israel and Arab lives.  If you want the buffer zone land back, stop trying to murder Israelis.

Not a single rocket has been fired from Gaza in 2 months...from buffer zone or anywhere in Gaza.
https://972mag.com/youre-far-more-likely-to-be-killed-protesting-in-gaza-than-firing-a-rocket/134952/

Meanwhile...OP..
"Israeli troops have killed 41 Palestinians [incl 2 clearly identified journalists and children] and wounded more than 5,000 others since Gaza residents began staging protests along the border fence on March 30 to demand the right of return for Palestinian refugees."

 

Not a single Israeli injured.

Go figure who the terrorists are.

 

I'd call that disgustingly disproportionate. As does U.N. High Commissioner for Human Rights in the OP, and such famous Israeli Jews as Natalie Portman brave enough to speak out against her own government's war crimes.
'The mistreatment of those suffering from today's atrocities is simply not in line with my Jewish values. Because I care about Israel, I must stand up against violence, corruption, inequality and abuse of power'
...hear hear!
https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/.premium-natalie-portman-responds-to-genesis-prize-boycott-backlash-1.6013482

 

 

[Scott]

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