Questions About Qualifications

[kenkannif]

Is a bit of a nightmare to be honest for super well qualified people....I kind of call Thailand the great leveller....as at least IME a lot of the people that earn good, good money aren't always the best or most qualified teachers, they just know how to work the system a fair bit.....although luck does come into it.

Got a few mates on 1-2K an hour for teaching at schools/companies....although a reasonable command of Thai seems to help (not so much for the teaching rather to get the job).

[toptuan]

The great leveler...well said, Ken.

I've got a German friend who teaches English in his home to small groups (3-4) students, 4 5 days a week for about 4 hours a day. Makes around 100,000 Baht a month doing it. His work is not legal (no work permit), and his German accent is so thick, I miss 50% of what he says in English. God help those students when they land on the shores of the USA or Australia. I don't think he has much beyond a bachelor's degree, and he had no teaching experience prior to arriving in Thailand.

My Ph.D. friends, within the legal system, are making 30% of his income and teaching the same number of hours + another 20-30 hours in the office (and, don't forget, have to punch a time clock...).

Edited May 25, 2006 by toptuan

[Ijustwannateach]

^Yes, one hears stories like this- doesn't seem fair. But, on the other hand, if even one of his students' families ever get PO'ed at him, it only takes one phone call- and it's not only the risk of deportation but the risk of Thai prison, which as it happens is a risk I'd take an earnings cut to avoid. Plus, if he or his school ever fall "out of fashion" (or face serious competition in the form of an actual native speaker), what's he got to fall back on? Years of being a "tourist" don't really give you much standing with a government.

[toptuan]

^Yes, one hears stories like this- doesn't seem fair. But, on the other hand, if even one of his students' families ever get PO'ed at him, it only takes one phone call- and it's not only the risk of deportation but the risk of Thai prison, which as it happens is a risk I'd take an earnings cut to avoid. Plus, if he or his school ever fall "out of fashion" (or face serious competition in the form of an actual native speaker), what's he got to fall back on? Years of being a "tourist" don't really give you much standing with a government.

Yeah, it's that "on the other hand..." stuff that keeps me on the straight and narrow in this case. Well said, IJWT.

[bbq]

....English Language School in Bangkok LOOKING FOR ENGLISH NATIVE SPEAKERS!!! Many positions Required

URGENTLY!!! Please send the resume to...

Note from moderator: Sorry, bbq, this isn't really the best place to advertise for an opening; you basically have a commercial business trying to recruit employees. Also, there's no sense just saying "we have positions' if you don't specify where, when, how much, with whom, why not, etc.

Please try the usual avenues for advertising for teachers. Thank you.

PeaceBlondie, moderator

[robitusson]

No degree!

I was in the military for 9 years, I now work for a training company delivering Eng, maths, and IT to adult learners. I have references to support this.

My question is would I be likely to secure teaching jobs in Thailand if I were to acquire a tefl / esol cert?

Yes

[ladyexpat01]

Many thanks for all who have responded to my question. Sorry for being slow to respond here. It's the end of the uni year here in Korea, so things are busy.

At the moment I am looking at a number of freelance contracts. If one of two of them come through I may not have to worry about teaching should I come to Thailand.

Everyone has give me lots to think about. I am out of Korea for the summer, and will be considering my move in September.

Enjoy!

[spencerq]

Hello Everyone,

My girlfriend is coming with me as I study at the gem school in BBK. She plans on teaching English and has these qualifications: 30 years old, professional demeanor, currently a corporate trainer/teacher with a major corporation in N. America, University degree in Business, and will have a teaching English cert of some kind...Tesol or something... 60 hours course. How would these qualifications benefit her in her search for employment? What type of money and job should she be looking for?

Thanks,

Spencer

PS How much is high Speed internet per month in BKK. Is it charged per month?

[wilko]

No degree!

I was in the military for 9 years, I now work for a training company delivering Eng, maths, and IT to adult learners. I have references to support this.

My question is would I be likely to secure teaching jobs in Thailand if I were to acquire a tefl / esol cert?

The apparent official line is you need a degree and a TEFL or similar to teach English.

However there are many people here teaching without those quals. Some may even have a work permit.

[kenkannif]

^ Can you link to the official 'line' please? As I don't think that's really correct, although it seems to be what a lot of people assume

Thanks in advance!

[PeaceBlondie]

Nice discussion, and if nobody minds, I'm going to merge it into the "qualifications" thread stuck to the top of the teaching forum, along with the one I mistakenly took out of there last month.

Qualifications, schmalifications; it's a bit puzzling. No hard and fast, sure answers.

[PeaceBlondie]

Hi, Spencer,

I'm sorry that your post has been up here for almost 20 hours and viewed by more than 100 people without a reply.

Your questions about high speed internet in BKK may receive better responses if you post that on the Bangkok forum. It depends where you live, what your condo allows, etc., whether you use prepaid, have a landline, etc.

As you describe her qualifications, your girlfriend should have a good chance of landing a job in BKK in the low 30's per month. A 60 hour course is half as good as a 120 hour course, and twice as good as a 30 hour course, other things being equal, etc.

I'm merging this with the Questions About Qualifications" thread that's pinned at the top of the Teaching in Thailand Forum.

Good luck.

[kenkannif]

^ With the current demand for teachers a woman IMO will earn an okay amount (more than 30K in Bangers pretty easily).

And not sure if it works like that mate though in regards to the 120/60/30....some are pretty much worthless!

Edited June 6, 2006 by kenkannif

[Ijustwannateach]

As I've said before in this forum, all that better qualifications really do in the teaching business here is give you a better chance at getting all the jobs on offer. As the average job ranges from 25-35K (for TEFL) and 35-45K (for real subjects), you choose your salary range and take your chances. As Ken says, a woman has a better chance these days. Her quals should be fine for any TEFL job (assuming she gets the TEFL cert), and with a few years of actual experience she may even think about moving up into real English teaching (earlier, if she's good).

On another thread, rawumber asks:

Hi, really enjoy reading this forum, and have been doing so for about a year. I have been trying to map out some sort of future for the next few years, and thought about teaching English in Thailand.

I'm 44 without a degree, and not the best understanding of the English language. Would this rule me out of teaching, how skilled do you have to be to teach young Thai children English? I have two children of my own, so I understand what children need in the way of stimulation. I have taught art to large classes of under nines and realise how demanding they can be.

If I was to take a relevant teaching course in Thailand would that equip sombody like myself without a formal education to teach in schools there.

Any thoughts much appreciated.

Once again, there are no hard and fast answers. Even though it is terribly agist, racist, and discriminatory, a lot depends on questions such as:

1. How old are you?

2. How dark is your skin?

3. How thick is your accent?

4. How professionally dressed are you?

5. Are you a good actor?

From your written English, I would assume that functionally speaking you should be fine teaching conversational English to just about any age group- a TEFL cert. would help. Who will be willing to hire you depends on luck, your gift of the gab, and the unfair questions listed above.

"Steven"

[Ijustwannateach]

In another thread, TenDreams asks:

Hi all,

Apologies for posting this age-old question, but after sifting through so much information I thought I would start a thread.

I'm English, 27, have a BA, and I'm thinking of relocating to Thailand. I am seriously considering taking the CELTA with ECC, but for me, it’s a lot of money to spend.

I have been teaching English for the last 3 years in rural Japan.

I have taught ages 5-50+, in 1-1 settings, private groups, languages schools, elementary schools and junior high schools. I would like the learning experience and the qualification from the CELTA course, but wonder if it’s worth it?

From what I see, all the higher paying jobs ask for a CELTA or equivalent. I was basically wondering whether it is possible to get a decent job with this experience and good references? (For me, decent means Mon-Fri 8-5, health insurance, around 35K+, - is that asking a lot?)

Also, if there is anyone who has taken the CELTA at ECC and has any stories/points of interest I would be keen to hear them.

Thank you,

TD

I came here initially from Japan as well. Presumably you were on the JET program?

I agree with other posters that chances are your qualifications are more or less the equivalent of a TEFL. Depending on who your employer becomes in Thailand, you may or may not already be perfectly suited- I'd say you could fit right in almost seamlessly as a government school conversation teacher.

Conversation schools will be a bit more demanding because many of them require adherence to a specific style of teaching; for example using phonetic pronunciation or teaching various forms of pronunciation.

If you have a few advanced classes in a school here, you may also be able to re-invent yourself as a "real" English teacher, that is to say, a language arts instructor- in a Thai school or a private school. It would help if your background were in English or in teaching, of course.

Read through the rest of this thread for more examples.

"Steven"

P.S. Also check out this topic:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=57742

Edited June 7, 2006 by Ijustwannateach

[Bryan in Isaan]

I guess I am lucky.

In my time at the Bangkok government school, I instituted standard examination practices (I refused to use multiple choice exams) to make things fairer & also used "phonetic styled" (not phonetics or phonemics) instruction, against the wishes of many Thai teachers. The outcome was unprecedented! I gained results that had never before been achieved.

Whilst the other 2 "teachers" (both TEFL qualified & one with an 'English' degree...I do not even have TEFL) were busy playing "games' with the students, my tougher & somewhat more boring approach got results with the students. It didn't take the kids long to realise that they were learning something & that they could actually comprehend the "listening" part of a foreign language. The kids became much more interested in learning & less interested in "playing games". Thai kids are taught English by Thai teachers, who teach this language in Thai. Consequently, it took me 5 minutes to realise that their reading & written abilities were far superior compared to their listening & speaking abilities. Thus the need to go back to basics. Initially, Thai teachers disliked me for this but later saw the necessity.

I deplore the "total fun" concept of teaching. Fun is good if dished out as a reward...not as a total means of teaching.

You posted this quite a while back, but if you are still here, THANK YOU!! I am inspired. I have not yet taught for pay, but have been around the Thai school system, have nieces and nephews who are students and some friends who teach, so I am somewhat familiar with the system. One reason I have resisted the urge to teach and turned down job offers upcountry where I live is the requirement to p*ss around and play games all day, sing songs, etc... I studied some Japanese and a little Chinese in college and am now teaching myself Thai. I almost never played as part of my coursework and I would have thought my instructors were losing their marbles if they would have made us play in class.

Obviously TIT, that's the way its done here, etc... But I'm happy to see that there is an alternative -You have successfully bucked the system and provided an example of real instruction that has gotten real results. I might be returning to Thailand, taking a TEFL course and going into teaching in a few months. I would be happy to hear more about your teaching methods and experiences.

I would be happy to hear from the advocates of "fun" based instruction too. I am about to enter teaching and I hope to learn as much as I can so I can do a good job at it.

Thank you,

Bryan

Edited July 3, 2006 by Bryan in Isaan

[elkangorito]

I guess I am lucky.

In my time at the Bangkok government school, I instituted standard examination practices (I refused to use multiple choice exams) to make things fairer & also used "phonetic styled" (not phonetics or phonemics) instruction, against the wishes of many Thai teachers. The outcome was unprecedented! I gained results that had never before been achieved.

Whilst the other 2 "teachers" (both TEFL qualified & one with an 'English' degree...I do not even have TEFL) were busy playing "games' with the students, my tougher & somewhat more boring approach got results with the students. It didn't take the kids long to realise that they were learning something & that they could actually comprehend the "listening" part of a foreign language. The kids became much more interested in learning & less interested in "playing games". Thai kids are taught English by Thai teachers, who teach this language in Thai. Consequently, it took me 5 minutes to realise that their reading & written abilities were far superior compared to their listening & speaking abilities. Thus the need to go back to basics. Initially, Thai teachers disliked me for this but later saw the necessity.

I deplore the "total fun" concept of teaching. Fun is good if dished out as a reward...not as a total means of teaching.

You posted this quite a while back, but if you are still here, THANK YOU!! I am inspired. I have not yet taught for pay, but have been around the Thai school system, have nieces and nephews who are students and some friends who teach, so I am somewhat familiar with the system. One reason I have resisted the urge to teach and turned down job offers upcountry where I live is the requirement to p*ss around and play games all day, sing songs, etc... I studied some Japanese and a little Chinese in college and am now teaching myself Thai. I almost never played as part of my coursework and I would have thought my instructors were losing their marbles if they would have made us play in class.

Obviously TIT, that's the way its done here, etc... But I'm happy to see that there is an alternative -You have successfully bucked the system and provided an example of real instruction that has gotten real results. I might be returning to Thailand, taking a TEFL course and going into teaching in a few months. I would be happy to hear more about your teaching methods and experiences.

I would be happy to hear from the advocates of "fun" based instruction too. I am about to enter teaching and I hope to learn as much as I can so I can do a good job at it.

Thank you,

Bryan

Thanks for the feedback Bryan.

Many Thai people, whom I know, are able to adjust to other ideas as long as the adjustments are done with respect & are not "shoved down their throats".

I've found that teaching in Thailand to be rewarding & challenging. At the end of the day, my objective is to teach them something, as long as it is not directly about "westernisation", which I would hate to see Thailand suddenly embrace.

Good luck.

[sproket]

My question is – Is there any demand for Technology teachers in Thailand? I am predominantly hard materials i.e. wood metal electronics (basic) and graphics. Anyone know the situation? Oh and although I have a BA hons and am a qualified teacher I don’t hold a TESOL or equiv.

[PeaceBlondie]

You might try the vo-tech (vocational and technical schools). They're in all the big cities.

[Ijustwannateach]

You might find a position at one of the true blue International schools who may be required to provide this as part of their curriculum. However, I think you will find that they prefer to hire through the established channels (and outside Thailand). If you are lucky, though, you may find they are desperate enough to hire a local. Not a bad idea to have your resume on file with them.

If you ARE outside Thailand, you'd have a better chance but you'll have to wait until a position opens up.

"Steven"

[lawman3966]

Thanks to Ijustwannateach for all the information in this thread. So far, I have not found an answer to the question below. But, sorry if I'm asking an already answered question.

I already have a BS (engineering) and a law degree in the US, and have worked in the legal field for nearly a decade. I am contemplating a move to Thailand in a couple of years to teach English and possibly other subjects as any such opportunities arise (Math and science are possibilities I suppose). I am contemplating a long term stay in Thailand.

The following question was prompted by a document I read warning of low levels of job satisfaction among teachers in Thailand with less formal qualifications. In brief, formal western teaching credentials were recommended.

In many jurisdictions in the US and Canada, any four year University degree combined with a one year University course in teaching can qualify one to teach within the K-12 education system. Thus, I'm treating this combination of credentials as corresponding a "western teaching" qualification.

The document I read indicated that the best teaching jobs in Thailand required the above combination of credentials and possibly one to two years' experience teaching in K-12 schools. I'm writing this to solicit opinions as to whether it would be worthwhile, for someone contemplating many years of teaching in Thailand and who has the time and resources to pursue this option,

to take such a one-year University course (in addition to TEFL or CELTA training) to become eligible for the more desirable International school jobs.

Again, sorry if this been asked before.

Regards,

lawman

[Ijustwannateach]

Having a formal teaching license or qualification from most English-speaking countries is not something accidental or accumulating from life experience, or even from taking education-related courses or actually teaching in a classroom. It's a predefined status for which you usually have to apply, which can be formally checked upon inquiry, and usually involves review by the appropriate state board (if you are in the U.S.). My knowledge of Canadian qualifications is more spotty, but I'll ask a colleague of mine about it if you like.

In other words, if you were a Proper Teacher of the Most Credentialled Sort, you would certainly know about it. Those are the types that most of the true-blue international schools here are really looking for. Getting jobs at those schools here usually involves registration with an international school employment service. There's nothing informal or uncertain about the rules involved.

If this is really the way you want to go, you need to be doing research on become a fully licensed teacher in your home country. Guesswork and supposition don't work. Contact a local university or school board and get the exact information, then go through the process.

The question will still remain, however, if there will be an opening in the discipline in which you become a teacher once you are qualified and ready to move to Thailand. For best odds, I'd suggest doing your major speciality either in elementary education (in general, if it's available) or the maths and sciences, if you want to teach older students.

It's true that dealing with the non-true-blue schools here is fraught with trouble, hassle, disappointment, and uncertainty. However, we get to teach Thai students and work in a Thai environment. For some (including me), that's preferable to dealing with many of the kind of foreign students who typically go to school in the true-blue places here.

Good luck and let us know how it works out.

As an additional suggestion, assuming that law is not out of the question for you, it's not impossible to become a legal consultant here, assuming you learn to speak and read enough Thai to follow the Thai law. Such consultants work very hard, but are sometimes paid an order of magnitude higher than even the best-paid international school teachers.

"Steven"

[lawman3966]

Thanks very much for the input. I hadn't considered the legal work option, but will look into it. And I will do some homework regarding the requirements for teacher certification in the U.S. and Canada (I'm a dual citizen).

I said what I did about the BA + 1 year teaching study approach because I have a couple of Canadian friends who became K-12 teachers that way. However, all information is subject to obsolescence, and I will ensure that I get updated information before making any rash decisions. Forearmed is forewarned.

Thanks again for your suggestions and your perspective. It's nice to hear something positive about the non-true-blue teaching options, despite their limitations. The rant I read on stickman was wholly negative about all but the 100K-per-month int'l school approach.

Regards,

Les

[Ijustwannateach]

There is such a dire need for teachers everywhere in the world (especially in math and sciences) and the field is so underpaid relative to most local costs of living that almost any area will make a deal with you to teach a topic in which you have some justifiable expertise in exchange for working on a certification at the same time. Check it out with your local schools and see if they're willing to make a deal with you.

This is one of the arguments I often make for allowing subject teachers to teach their subject in Thailand.

"Steven"

[lawman3966]

Ijustwannateach, Thanks for your input.

I have since confirmed that for someone already having a four-year degree, a Canadian B. of Ed. takes only one year.

Teaching in the west (in my case the U.S. or Canada), regardless of the subject, holds interest for me primarily in how it enables me to eventually work in Thailand. A one year investment in a B. of Ed. seems well worth it if substantially improves my prospects for a 10-year or so teaching career in LOS. But, a three year investment (assuming two years experience in a western school is needed) makes the investment somewhat less appealing.

I suppose I'll just keep reading the various boards and get a better feel for things as time progresses.

Thanks again for the helpful input. I'll treat the Int'l school track as one option, not as a necessity.

Les

[cheeseeater]

Ok, I posted this request in the main page of the forum, but got no responses. Then I noticed this section and thought I might have better luck here. Basically, I have recently been offered a very attractive job to teach in Bangkok. However, there is one condition, I must have a TEFL certificate.

I already have a bachelors degree (not BA) and have several years teaching experience from South Korea, and also in Thailand. I have been on several TEFL courses, but all in house training by previous employers and I don't have any certificate to show for them. The guy who wants to employ me says I need a certificate in order to get a teachers licence. A 120 hour, four week cert. is too expensive for me at the moment, but I have seen an 80 hour online course that would fit within my budget (offered on the website linked in the "Get Qualified Online" sticky thread at the top of this forum). I am a little apprehensive about whether this course is certified as suffient to get the TL though. The guy who offered me the job said that an online course is ok with him, as long as the Thai MoE can issue a TL against it. Anybody have any experience of this? Can I get a TL with an 80 hour online course? I want ot get it sorted out quite quickly as the job offer is great. Thank you very much.

[PeaceBlondie]

I'm just guessing here, cheeseeater, but it's a bit unusual to REQUIRE a TEFL cert just to get a teachers license, if you already have a real degree. I don't know if the Bangkok ministry of education would require a cert. And, while the online course advertised on this forum would give you a cert, nobody can guarantee that officer #3 behind the counter is in a good mood that day. I'll just guess, blindly, that such an online cert would make them happy, especially if your bachelor's degree looks legit, without blurred ink and misspellings.

[cheeseeater]

Thanks PB, it may well be that they MoE don't require a TEFL, but the guy who made the offer thinks they do and as a result, won't give me a job without it. My degree is legit, BEng (bachelor of Engineering) though not BA and it took five years of my life to get it (including one failed year of studying Pharmacy). The cert. looks a bit tattered nowadays as my old boss in Korea insisted on having it displayed in the entrance hall for the whole year I was there (arguing with a Korean boss about something like that is something I was advised against). Is that likely to be a problem, or should I pay the money to get the embassy to verify it, as I read is possible on another post? Thanks.

[kenkannif]

I'm just guessing here, cheeseeater, but it's a bit unusual to REQUIRE a TEFL cert just to get a teachers license, if you already have a real degree.

To be fair PB no it's not really unusual...it happens quite often, especially with language schools.

I don't know if the Bangkok ministry of education would require a cert.

They do in some cases, although as you mention it can depend on the individual and also who, what and where you're teaching.

I'll just guess, blindly, that such an online cert would make them happy, especially if your bachelor's degree looks legit, without blurred ink and misspellings.

Actually they are turning some down nowadays, so do check with them FIRST!!!

[cheeseeater]

Thanks ken, again very helpful information. As to your request in my other post (sorry about multiple posts btw, I saw this thread after I'd already posted in the main forum - I'll try to keep this matter in this thread from now), my prospective employer told ME to check if it is acceptable. I think the school are hiring several teachers at the moment and guess he's pretty busy with all that on top of his usual schedule. I thought about asking my girlfriend to call the MoE and ask them, but I don't know which department or even if they wuld give that information out.

Also, just as a side note, I am currently on a non-imm ed visa (I'm currently studying). If I were successful, would I have to change over to a non-imm b, or would I be able to get a work permit issued on a student visa. I asked this in the visa forum, but people there seem to have been pretty busy discussing the tourist visa issue recently. Thanks.