Boys aged 13 and 15 shot in Wealdstone, north-west London

[Baerboxer]

2 minutes ago, BuriramSam said:

Basically semantics differences between the US and England. In the US, you are only arrested once the police believe you actually committed the crime. Trivial procedure differences from what I can see.

 

Yep. The police in UK can and do arrest on "suspicion" of committing a crime; or for questioning. Then there are rules on how long you can be detained without being charged etc. 

 

You can under English law, legally kill someone who breaks into your house if you can show that at the time you were genuinely frightened for you life, or the lives of your family. People get hung up with expressions like 'reasonable force" without actually researching the law. What you can't do is kill them if they are in the process of fleeing as the danger to you and your family has been removed. 

 

I know a fifty something martial artist in the UK. He could no longer practice karate and so took up kendo. He was parking his car on his driveway and taking his kit out one night when 2 muggers / would be robbers attacked him. He had a katana sword and wounded one. He was prosecuted, convicted, fined, had the sword confiscated and received a suspended sentence. It was deemed that the force used wasn't reasonable. No charges were made against either of the athletic young 20 somethings. Go figure.

[BuriramSam]

3 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Yep. The police in UK can and do arrest on "suspicion" of committing a crime; or for questioning. Then there are rules on how long you can be detained without being charged etc. 

 

You can under English law, legally kill someone who breaks into your house if you can show that at the time you were genuinely frightened for you life, or the lives of your family. People get hung up with expressions like 'reasonable force" without actually researching the law. What you can't do is kill them if they are in the process of fleeing as the danger to you and your family has been removed. 

 

I know a fifty something martial artist in the UK. He could no longer practice karate and so took up kendo. He was parking his car on his driveway and taking his kit out one night when 2 muggers / would be robbers attacked him. He had a katana sword and wounded one. He was prosecuted, convicted, fined, had the sword confiscated and received a suspended sentence. It was deemed that the force used wasn't reasonable. No charges were made against either of the athletic young 20 somethings. Go figure.

What happened to your martial arts guy can happen here in the US as well. The skills can be defined as a weapon itself.... Rinse and repeat. So basically, people get punished for being prepared. Sad.

[BuriramSam]

6 minutes ago, sanemax said:

The info in the post that you was replying to, was incorrect

I agree 100%, though didn't know that at the time. Thanks.

[Baerboxer]

The current surge in shootings and stabbings, some fatal some not, in London mostly, if not all, involve young black males. Many if not all are gang members, associated with gangs, or connected with someone who is.

 

The Metropolitan police have said they know who many of these gang members are.

 

But PC numbties like Mayor Clown Khan will not admit to that. Not admit this is a very specific problem affecting a very specific part of the community. He prefers to generalize, let's ban knives - yippee that will work just like banning guns has! He also tries to blame the government whilst ignoring the harm his party's previous regimes achieved in law and order. 

 

Once policing becomes the realm of politicians it looses reality and becomes ineffective. Laws that were created to try and ensure a fair society have been exploited by those they were intended to help. 

[Baerboxer]

3 minutes ago, BuriramSam said:

What happened to your martial arts guy can happen here in the US as well. The skills can be defined as a weapon itself.... Rinse and repeat. So basically, people get punished for being prepared. Sad.

 

Indeed. And what's also sad in the UK is that you can only be a "victim" if you match the profile criteria of a "victim".

 

Otherwise it's the poor disadvantaged criminal who get's to be felt sorry for. 

[sammieuk1]

Bring back the Krays need some order in the gangsta house.

[chrisinth]

3 hours ago, BuriramSam said:

It seems to me people have three options in situations like this.

 

1) Flee the area. 

2) Continue taking their chances.

3) arm one's self possibly have a better outcome if attacked.

 

Those who can't do item 1 are essentially forced to pick between 2 and 3. Maslow's hierarchy of needs dictates some will do what it takes to improve their physical safety.

Following those steps, you will get into a 'Northern Ireland' situation. All you need to do is swap out the excuse from religion to race and the scenario is set. There are enough far right organizations in the UK for this to become a reality.

 

My early teenage years of growing up were dragged through the streets of Belfast in the early 70's. I chose your 1) above to avoid your 3) at the age of 15; best choice I ever made, no regrets.

[PhonThong]

Too busy worrying what is happening in the U.S. to worry about your own mess? How about the Brits mind their own affairs and stay the hell out of everyone else. "YOU are looking pretty stupid throwing stones from your own glass houses".  Tell us again how London is a gun free zone..

[sanemax]

57 minutes ago, PhonThong said:

Too busy worrying what is happening in the U.S. to worry about your own mess? How about the Brits mind their own affairs and stay the hell out of everyone else. "YOU are looking pretty stupid throwing stones from your own glass houses".  Tell us again how London is a gun free zone..

Rather ironic that you are from the USA , posting in a thread about the UK and telling us not to interfere in your Country

[halloween]

5 hours ago, BuriramSam said:

It seems to me people have three options in situations like this.

 

1) Flee the area. 

2) Continue taking their chances.

3) arm one's self possibly have a better outcome if attacked.

 

Those who can't do item 1 are essentially forced to pick between 2 and 3. Maslow's hierarchy of needs dictates some will do what it takes to improve their physical safety.

Let's go for 3/ and let everyone have a gun. That has worked so well in the USA.

[PhonThong]

46 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Rather ironic that you are from the USA , posting in a thread about the UK and telling us not to interfere in your Country

Hey, If it were up to me, I would pull the U.S.military out of that island country. Let it go on its own merry way. Promise to never interfere again.

[BuriramSam]

14 minutes ago, halloween said:

Let's go for 3/ and let everyone have a gun. That has worked so well in the USA.

Not everyone does, nor can everyone, have a gun in the US. Your premise is false.

[BuriramSam]

2 minutes ago, PhonThong said:

Hey, If it were up to me, I would pull the U.S.military out of that island country. Let it go on its own merry way. Promise to never interfere again.

Amen. I'm tired of the US being the world's police force- and footing the bill for it.

[halloween]

3 minutes ago, BuriramSam said:

Not everyone does, nor can everyone, have a gun in the US. Your premise is false.

Thank you for pointing out my inaccuracy. Do you believe US society would be improved by removing those restrictions to gun ownership that are applied?

[BuriramSam]

4 minutes ago, halloween said:

Thank you for pointing out my inaccuracy. Do you believe US society would be improved by removing those restrictions to gun ownership that are applied?

Depends on which restrictions you're talking about. 

[juice777]

1.15pm in London criminals are roaming the streets armed with guns shooting people. Honest working Brits, paying tax, trying to care for their families are totally unable to protect their loved ones. It has caused an incredible amount of stress and society is divided like never before. Police are hamstrung by PC and recently arrested an old man who during a break-in to his house at night by 2 armed pikeys actually killed one of them during a struggle and the police charged him for murder. He should have been given a medal. Trust in police forces has been decimated by their ignoring the widespread and systematic rape of young white children by grooming gangs all hailing from one part of the world, that seemingly have been above the law for decades. The liberal policy of ensuring anybody can have kids without 2 responsible adults to care for them has pretty much deconstructed the British family, and kids are growing up to be feral. 
 
 Unless free speech is allowed again in Britain, and moves taken to bring back a civilized society I am afraid we will start seeing vigilante groups out on patrol, and justice being meted out by civilians. This is essentially the symptoms of a failed state, and for what? So we can show the world how great multiculti is and after it failed horribly try to stifle any honest discussion? It is an outrage.

I see you left out on purpose the old man who killed the Traveller was let out the next day with all Charges Dropped.

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[juice777]

He left out on purpose the charges were dropped the next day.They probably had no choice to arrest him why they investigated will happen.There was death by stabbing after all even if it was self-defence.

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[juice777]

It seems to me people have three options in situations like this.
 
1) Flee the area. 
2) Continue taking their chances.
3) arm one's self possibly have a better outcome if attacked.
 
Those who can't do item 1 are essentially forced to pick between 2 and 3. Maslow's hierarchy of needs dictates some will do what it takes to improve their physical safety.

In America there is guns everywhere and they have 10 times more murders per million, So that don't work,they need to bring back stop and search and put Cameras on the police so they can't abuse their position like they did when I was growing up.

I saw it with my own eyes many a time cameras on the old bill and can only serch pepeole with them would be a way around this and then they could bring back stop and search and then there would be less knives on the street.

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[juice777]

That isnt correct ,  he was released without charge

He knows that he left it out on purpose.

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[BuriramSam]

3 minutes ago, juice777 said:

In America there is guns everywhere and they have 10 times more murders per million, So that don't work,they need to bring back stop and search and put Cameras on the police so they can't abuse their position like they did when I was growing up.

I saw it with my own eyes many a time cameras on the old bill and can only serch pepeole with them would be a way around this and then they could bring back stop and search and then there would be less knives on the street.

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I'm fine with cameras for police. That's good for everyone. But be careful what you pray for, you might get it. I suspect most cops who engage in chicanery will adjust their behavior. I think you'll find that's not the case with criminals and other creeps who blame cops for silly stuff.

 

Yes, America has lots of guns. It's always been a part of our culture. There is no putting the genie back in the bottle. What we can do is educate people and prosecute criminals.

[Slip]

4 hours ago, BuriramSam said:

What's wrong about it, other than I went by the information in the post I was replying to?

And therein lies the problem- people posting things that are not true to try and bolster their flawed, in this case far-right wing, arguments are taken at face value by trusting souls.  Some posters have a history of doing this.  You would be well-advised to and identify who they are so you can approach their rambling with the pinch of salt they deserve.

[juice777]

The krays were violent sex offenders who demand money from hard working decent pepole they was just scum in suits and Just as bad as these people who are stabbing each other if not worse.

They was all in gangs as well.

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[juice777]

Bring back the Krays need some order in the gangsta house.

The krays were violent sex offenders who demand money from hard working decent pepole they was just scum in suits and Just as bad as these people who are stabbing each other if not worse.

They was all in gangs as well.

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[FreddieRoyle]

30 minutes ago, juice777 said:

He knows that he left it out on purpose.

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he was released without charge after a huge backlash from the public and several campaigns and fund raisers to free the poor guy. try using google. Remember the old age man was in bed at night with his seriously ill wife when the scumbags broke in with weapons to his house - there should be nobody but but but and supporting the pikeys that broke in.  I will not respond more to this off topic nonsense, the point in mentioning it in the 1st place was to give a sense of the absurdness surrounding modern UK policing that has led to these gangs running around shooting and stabbing people. Seeing some responses on this thread it is clear the UK has a long long way until sense is seen and the violence is firmly and permanently dealt with.

[Unsane]

Just now, juice777 said:

The krays were violent sex offenders ...

Have to agree.  Met a guy in the 80s who historically had his tongue sliced vertically and horizontally.  Wasn't a pretty sight but almost perfection in the application of the cut lines.  

[Basil B]

9 hours ago, FreddieRoyle said:

Police are hamstrung by PC and recently arrested an old man who during a break-in to his house at night by 2 armed pikeys actually killed one of them during a struggle and the police charged him for murder.

He was not charged with murder...

He was held for two days for questioning, I bet he was treated very well given the circumstances, a person lost their life and it is very important that the crime be investigated thoroughly (even if the deceased was a scumbag), best way to investigate this was to keep the guy sterile of other peoples thoughts and opinions until every thing had been checked.

Also the scumbag was part of a feral traveling community who since the death have made life hell for residents of the street...

  

Quote

 

Henry Vincent’s supporters threaten pensioner within hours of burglar’s funeral

The pensioner who stabbed Henry Vincent to death in his home received shocking threats from the burglar’s supporters within hours of them burying him. The 37-year-old career criminal was killed in a botched break-in at Richard Osborn-Brooks’ home in Hither Green, south-east London, on April 4. The 78-year-old man has gone into hiding after being targeted with vile intimidation from Vincent’s supporters, who are still angry at the police releasing him without charge.

 

http://metro.co.uk/2018/05/05/henry-vincents-supporters-threaten-pensioner-within-hours-burglars-funeral-7523164/

Edited May 7, 2018 by Basil B

[juice777]

Yes so how is east end gangstes having wars any difference between post code wars now.

Have to agree.  Met a guy in the 80s who historically had his tongue sliced vertically and horizontally.  Wasn't a pretty sight but almost perfection in the application of the cut lines.  

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[Unsane]

1 minute ago, juice777 said:

Yes so how is east end gangstes having wars any difference between post code wars now.

 

I was only replying to the Krays being violent sex offenders and this guy had been a victim of their extreme sex offences.  

 

Can't help you with the rest.

[juice777]

He would have been released anyway with or without the backlash.You chose to leave it out on purpose there is already one poster who thought that's the law in the UK stop twisting the facts.

he was released without charge after a huge backlash from the public and several campaigns and fund raisers to free the poor guy. try using google. Remember the old age man was in bed at night with his seriously ill wife when the scumbags broke in with weapons to his house - there should be nobody but but but and supporting the pikeys that broke in.  I will not respond more to this off topic nonsense, the point in mentioning it in the 1st place was to give a sense of the absurdness surrounding modern UK policing that has led to these gangs running around shooting and stabbing people. Seeing some responses on this thread it is clear the UK has a long long way until sense is seen and the violence is firmly and permanently dealt with.

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[The manic]

7 hours ago, stevenl said:

Nobody is forcing anybody to take up arms against thugs. Only criminals do that.

Ordinary people are being criminalized to survive. Including the grandad who was arrested for accidentally killing a professional Armed burglar from a family of career criminal. In some parts of the UK Roma have so destroyed the fabric of the local community that senior police have warned of riots unless the new immigrants curb their behaviour. Historically unjust situation have criminalized people. The suffragettes  fighting for the right to vote,  serf at the time of robin hood had to break unjust hunting laws to eat etc.