Most Thai varsities downgraded in new educational listings

[webfact]

Most Thai varsities downgraded in new educational listings

By The Nation

 

 

THAILAND HAS MORE reasons to worry than to rejoice over the Times Higher Education’s just-released rankings for higher-education institutes in emerging economies.
 

On the bright side, the number of Thai universities on the prestigious list has risen to 10 this year – up from nine a year earlier. But on a negative note, most of the Thai representatives have dropped down the list.

 

Released yesterday, the Times Higher Education Emerging Economies University Rankings 2018 showed that King Mongkut’s University of Technology North Bangkok (KMUTNB) has joined the list for the first time – but only because the list has expanded the number of available spots from 300 last year. 

 

KMUTNB is ranked in the 301-350 band. The other nine Thai universities are old faces in the rankings, which were previously known as the Times Higher Education BRICS & Emerging Economies University Rankings.

 

The best performer from Thailand is Mahidol University, at 76th spot, the same as last year. 

 

King Mongkut’s University of Technology Thonburi’s ranking, meanwhile, has slid from 91 to 92. Chulalongkorn University, Thailand’s oldest university, suffered a bigger drop, falling from 117th spot to 126th. 

 

 

The Suranaree University of Technology is an interesting representative from Thailand, because it is the only one with an improved rating. Its current ranking is 177, up from 192 the previous year. King Mongkut’s Institute of Technology Ladkrabang has fallen from 145 to 181 this year. 

 

Chiang Mai University has also slipped significantly – from 165 last year to 195 now. Khon Kaen University, meanwhile, has dropped from 200 to the 201-250 band.

 

Kasetsart University maintains its ranking, staying in the 251–300-band like last year. But Prince of Songkla University has plunged from the 201-250 band to the 251-300 band.

 

But Thailand is not the only nation seeing a decline. 

 

“We see pockets of progress and a scattering of exceptional performers, but the broad picture across the Asean, Eastern European and Latin American regions is one of decline this year,” Phil Baty said in his capacity as the editorial director of the Times Higher Education Global Rankings.

 

Malaysia and Indonesia, just like Thailand, have an increased presence in the list but the majority of their institutions have declined since last year. 

 

Only four Asean nations have made it to the prestigious list. The Philippines has had one position in the ranking since last year. This year, the list covered more than 350 universities from 42 countries, across four continents.

 

Topping the list is Peking University of China, followed by Tsinghua University, also from China. 

 

China has dominated the 2018 ranking’s elite Top 10, claiming seven spots.

 

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/detail/national/30344984

 

-- © Copyright The Nation 2018-05-10

[cornishcarlos]

Downgraded to Kindergartens 

[arithai12]

The "cannot fail" system at work.

 

 

[Get Real]

Who could possibly expect something else?

[Samui Bodoh]

I have told this story on TVF before, but it is worth telling again;

 

Many years ago I saw a TV interview with the late Lee Kwan Yew (spelling) where he was asked if he worried about Singapore's future in relation to her much larger neighbours who had much greater natural resources.

 

Mr Lee smiled, looked at the camera, and said "what are their education systems like?"

 

That really said it all.

 

We live in proverbial 'interesting times' and countries who have a good education system, a well-educated populace and that can adapt to rapid and constant change are going to thrive. Countries that do not have a good education system, that do not have a well-educated populace and that can't adapt to rapid and constant change are going to suffer, and suffer badly.

 

Thailand, respectfully you are in the latter category.

 

The state of Thailand's education system, from bottom all the way to the top, is a disaster. If (God forbid!) I had Article 44, I would fire the top 50 people at the headquarters of the Ministry of Education in Bangkok and the top 10 people at each and every provincial Education office. And then I would go about reforming the rest of the Ministry with a chain saw.

 

Thailand's poor education system is, in my view, the single greatest threat to the country's future; greater even than the Junta (members who know my views on the Junta may gasp in shock now ).

 

IMHO, fix the Ministry of Education or die as a country.

 

 

[Eligius]

Thailand's universities exist on a warm, fuzzy current of hot air, lies, deception, self-deception and cant. There is wonderful talk in them of Skill Sets, Knowledge Capital, Student-Centred Learning, Hybrid Learning, Student Participation, on and on - but it is all empty talk, all nonsense, all pretense (which the Thai administrators and lecturers - engaging in characteristic Thai double-think  - have conned even themselves into believing). 

 

It is a farce.

 

Why? Because there is not a genuine culture of self-improvement, real effort, grit and educational determination in this country - never has been, all the years I've lived and worked as a professional educator here. Students, by and large, have little conception of what studying really means. The level at which education is pitched in Thai universities (by and large) is that of a 12-year-old school pupil in Great Britain. And even then, things are made relatively easy for the students here.

 

The whole thing is a huge lie and con, churning out 'graduates' who literally know next to nothing (even about the subject they have studied - and when it comes to 'general knowledge' - forget it!). I would dare to say that there are only a handful of universities in Thailand that would qualify as anywhere comparable in their students' intellectual/ analytical abilities and attainments to most Western universities.

 

And it ain't going to change anytime soon. Yes, the buzz words will change (they always do) - but the Thai education system  in reality will not. Because it is there to keep the bulk of the people stupid, unable to think critically or analytically.

 

It is so much easier for the 1% of the top power-holders to lord it over a clueless, uncritical mass of the population.

 

The Thais (the Masters) love it!

 

 

Edited May 10, 2018 by Eligius

[AntDee]

A Harvard educated Thai who is a close friend tells me that most Thai schooling is meant to socialize Thais and not to teach them much of anything else. 

 

Thai schools are where Thais learn to "be Thai". They learn their place in society. 

[Eligius]

16 minutes ago, AntDee said:

A Harvard educated Thai who is a close friend tells me that most Thai schooling is meant to socialize Thais and not to teach them much of anything else. 

 

Thai schools are where Thais learn to "be Thai". They learn their place in society. 

Correct. And the Thai's place in society is to be an obedient, unthinking, waai-ing slave of the 'Grown Ups'. That term alone - the 'grown ups' (puu-yai), for important people - tells us all we need to know. The people en masse are viewed and treated as children.

 

That is why a dumb-dumb like Prayut can rule this country - and get away with it.

 

Edited May 10, 2018 by Eligius

[AntDee]

6 minutes ago, Eligius said:

Thailand's universities exist on a warm, fuzzy current of hot air, lies, deception, self-deception and cant. There is wonderful talk in them of Skill Sets, Knowledge Capital, Student-Centred Learning, Hybrid Learning, Student Participation, on and on - but it is all empty talk, all nonsense, all pretense (which the Thai administrators and lecturers - engaging in characteristic Thai double-think  - have conned even themselves into believing). 

 

It is a farce.

 

Why? Because there is not a genuine culture of self-improvement, real effort, grit and educational determination in this country - never has been, all the years I've lived here. Students, by and large, have little conception of what studying really means. The level at which education is pitched in Thai universities (by and large) is that of a 12-year-old school pupil in Great Britain. And even then, things are made relatively easy for the students here.

 

The whole thing is a huge lie and con, churning out 'graduates' who literally know next to nothing (even about the subject they have studied - and when it comes to 'general knowledge' - forget it!). I would dare to say that there are only a handful of universities in Thailand that would qualify as anywhere comparable in their students' abilities and attainments to most Western universities.

 

And it ain't going to change anytime soon. Yes, the buzz words will change (they always do) - but the Thai education system  in reality will not. Because it is there to keep the bulk of the people stupid, unable to think critically or analytically.

 

It is so much easier for the 1% of the top power-holders to lord it over a clueless, uncritical mass of the population.

 

The Thais (the Masters) love it!

 

This is correct. The schools are there to keep things the way they are. To keep most Thais poor and uneducated so the fairer skinned Thais can continue to lord over thr brown ones. Most do not want genuinely educated people or a large middle class in this country, sadly. 

[Odysseus123]

2 minutes ago, AntDee said:

This is correct. The schools are there to keep things the way they are. To keep most Thais poor and uneducated so the fairer skinned Thais can continue to lord over thr brown ones. Most do not want genuinely educated people or a large middle class in this country, sadly. 

They certainly do not want an educated,sophisticated, middle class-that is for sure.

 

It is always from that social/economic group that revolutions or great changes occur.

[tomta]

Thailand is a society in which institutions, events and people of fundamental importance to its history, culture and politics cannot be discussed critically or openly. To be maintained this evasion has to be replicated in so many other areas of knowledge and indeed Thais have to pretend that there is no evasion.  Truth is indivisible. So it is no surprise that education is superficial. Truth is indivisible.

[Eligius]

11 minutes ago, tomta said:

Thailand is a society in which institutions, events and people of fundamental importance to its history, culture and politics cannot be discussed critically or openly. To be maintained this evasion has to be replicated in so many other areas of knowledge and indeed Thais have to pretend that there is no evasion.  Truth is indivisible. So it is no surprise that education is superficial. Truth is indivisible.

This is one of the best, truest posts I've seen here in a long while. Spot on, Tomta.

 

The universities say they are encouraging 'critical and analytical thinking' - but you just try to initiate an undergraduate discussion group in which Republicanism vs Monarchism is discussed, for example - and out of the door will go your 'critical thinking' and you yourself! And you will be lucky if you are not charged with lese-majeste.

 

It is the same, as you say, with many other topics. 

 

The Thais live in a reality-denying universe.

 

Edited May 10, 2018 by Eligius

[Odysseus123]

8 minutes ago, Eligius said:

This is one of the best, truest posts I've seen here in a long while. Spot on, Tomta.

 

The universities say they are encouraging 'critical and analytical thinking' - but you just try to initiate an undergraduate discussion group in which Republicanism vs Monarchism is discussed - and out of the door will go your 'critical thinking' and you yourself! And you will be lucky if you are not charged with lese-majeste.

 

It is the same, as you say, with many other topics. 

 

The Thais live in a reality-denying universe.

Let's face it.Education as we Westerners understand it-really originated in a small group of Northern European,Protestant countries and from there was exported to North America and the antipodes.

 

The Catholic countries of the Counter Reformation struggled to catch up and some of their former colonies still have not managed to do so.

 

Asian ex-colonies that understand that there was a great deal to be gained from this form of education system have begun to prosper mightily.

 

Thailand has,in its soul,pretty much rejected the lot-accept on a superficial basis-and actually regards Western forms of philosophy and scientific/critical/analytical inquiry as an acute threat.Hence,everybody getting back into traditional garb upon the orders of their betters.  

 

A well educated Thai once told me that the window to the West really opened in the 1990's and was abruptly slammed shut about a decade later.

[Eligius]

8 minutes ago, Odysseus123 said:

Let's face it.Education as we Westerners understand it-really originated in a small group of Northern European,Protestant countries and from there was exported to North America and the antipodes.

 

The Catholic countries of the Counter Reformation struggled to catch up and some of their former colonies still have not managed to do so.

 

Asian ex-colonies that understand that there was a great deal to be gained from this form of education system have begun to prosper mightily.

 

Thailand has,in its soul,pretty much rejected the lot-accept on a superficial basis-and actually regards Western forms of philosophy and scientific/critical/analytical inquiry as an acute threat.Hence,everybody getting back into traditional garb upon the orders of their betters.  

 

A well educated Thai once told me that the window to the West really opened in the 1990's and was abruptly slammed shut about a decade later.

Another brilliant post, Ody! We are getting some really excellent comments and insights on Thaivisa this morning. It's a pleasure to see that so many people are aware of the Thai realities!

 

Yes, two of the great engines of intellectual change in Europe were Martin Luther, who encouraged people to actually read the Bible for themselves and not just believe what priests told them, and the great philosopher, Immanuel Kant, who wonderfully urged: 'Dare to KNOW! Have the courage to make use of your own intelligence.'

 

But 'daring to know' and 'using one's intelligence' are strictly 'verboten' in ancient and present-day Thailand (the same thing, of course!).

 

 

Edited May 10, 2018 by Eligius

[Odysseus123]

21 minutes ago, Eligius said:

Another brilliant post, Ody! We are getting some really excellent comments and insights on Thaivisa this morning. It's a pleasure to see that so many people are aware of the Thai realities!

Eligius,

 

That is because I keep comparing and contrasting Thailand with my other home away from home-India,

 

 The Indian middle class folk that I knew/know view education in a totally different way and their students were/are a pleasure to converse with.

Edited May 10, 2018 by Odysseus123

[StayinThailand2much]

1 hour ago, Eligius said:

Correct. And the Thai's place in society is to be an obedient, unthinking, waai-ing slave of the 'Grown Ups'. That term alone - the 'grown ups' (puu-yai), for important people - tells us all we need to know. The people en masse are viewed and treated as children.

In the West, most scholars would have argued that this is, actually, the perfect rational system of power and faith (well, for 1718, at least)... No prospect of an Age of Enlightenment for Thailand anytime soon... 

 

Edited May 10, 2018 by StayinThailand2much

[Lupatria]

56 minutes ago, Odysseus123 said:

They certainly do not want an educated,sophisticated, middle class-that is for sure.

 

It is always from that social/economic group that revolutions or great changes occur.

Stupidity is not lack of knowledge, also not unwillingness to achieve knowledge. Stupidity is believes to have enough knowledge.

Confucius

[Eligius]

7 minutes ago, Odysseus123 said:

Eligius,

 

That is because I keep comparing and contrasting Thailand with my other home away from home-India,

 

 The Indian middle class folk that I know view education in a totally different way and their students were/are a pleasure to converse with.

And the irony of ironies, Ody, is that India's great son - the Buddha - whose teachings are allegedly at the heart of Thai history and society, insisted (and I paraphrase): 'Don't follow tradition just because it is tradition; don't believe your teacher, just because he is your teacher. Only when you yourself know, through your own direct knowledge and investigation, that something is good - follow that way'.

 

Funny that I have NEVER heard that sermon of the Buddha's promulgated by ANY of the Thai leaders, teachers and opinion-shapers!

 

I wonder why?

 

Edited May 10, 2018 by Eligius

[Odysseus123]

3 minutes ago, Eligius said:

And the irony of ironies, Ody, is that India's great son - the Buddha - whose teachings are allegedly at the heart of Thai history and society, insisted (and I paraphrase): 'Don't follow tradition just because it is tradition; don't believe your teacher, just because he is your teacher. Only when you yourself know, through your own direct knowledge and investigation, that something is good - follow that way'.

 

Funny that I have NEVER heard that sermon of the Buddha's promulgated by ANY of the Thai leaders, teachers and opinion-shapers!

 

I wonder why?

 

Eligius,

 

Most of the Indian people that I knew/know were/are either Hindu or Parsi.They had their own proud history of science,mathematics and accounting (lots of other things too..)

 

I was once invited to a teeming and very poor railway town north of Mumbai.

 

The following day the ENTIRE school turned out to talk with me.

 

The had certainly mastered the five main questions that promote intellectual curiosity and achievement.

 

How?What?When?Where?Why?

[Eligius]

1 minute ago, Odysseus123 said:

Eligius,

 

Most of the Indian people that I knew/know were/are either Hindu or Parsi.They had their own proud history of science,mathematics and accounting (lots of other things too..)

 

I was once invited to a teeming and very poor railway town north of Mumbai.

 

The following day the ENTIRE school turned out to talk with me.

 

The had certainly mastered the five main questions that promote intellectual curiosity and achievement.

 

How?What?When?Where?Why?

But Odysseus123, the Thais have these questions (and their answers) too:

 

How: 'How did Thailand become so cosmically great? Because of its unmatched leaders'

What: 'What has Thailand given to the world? Everything that has ever benefited any human being on this planet.'

When: 'When did Thailand first become so great? It always was great - from the day of its inception.'

Where: 'Where is the centre of all knowledge, wisdom, skill and attainment? THAILAND.'

Why: 'Why is Thailand so great? Because of its wise, all-caring, all-knowing, all-compassionate leaders - like General Prayut'!

[Anak Nakal]

2 in top 100.

No good education, no future

[RichardColeman]

The downgraded ones must have had 'copy and paste' issues

[Oziex1]

We dont need no education.

[tomta]

3 minutes ago, Anak Nakal said:

2 in top 100.

No good education, no future

Unfortunately, true education that develops abilities in critical thinking and doubt does not always lead to a good future at least not for individuals. Critical thinking is dangerous and painful and threatens  alienation from the rest of  society. The West has its famous examples: Galileo's famous recantation, Giordano Bruno being burnt at the stake, Soviet dissidents being imprisoned as mentally ill and many more. You can fill in the names of people who are suffering in similar ways (no burning at the stake yet at least) in Thailand and in exile from Thailand. Ignorance really is bliss.

[Baerboxer]

3 hours ago, arithai12 said:

The "cannot fail" system at work.

 

 

 

What makes you think that?

 

I know students who have failed Master and Bachelor degrees at Thai universities.

[Baerboxer]

1 minute ago, tomta said:

Unfortunately, true education that develops abilities in critical thinking and doubt does not always lead to a good future at least not for individuals. Critical thinking is dangerous and painful and threatens  alienation from the rest of  society. The West has its famous examples: Galileo's famous recantation, Giordano Bruno being burnt at the stake, Soviet dissidents being imprisoned as mentally ill and many more. You can fill in the names of people who are suffering in similar ways (no burning at the stake yet at least) in Thailand and in exile from Thailand. Ignorance really is bliss.

 

Sadly the culture of don't challenge your elders / seniors; avoid conflict and don't ask challenging questions; never loose face by admitting you're wrong, don't know, and don't try to make others loos face by asking difficult questions; and accept anything someone perceived to be better qualified says, fuels this. 

 

Very few Thais will challenge a lecturer / presenter - even in PhD classes where they are pushed to challenge and see foreign students really challenging everything. In fact, I know many Thais who actually thought that challenging critical behavior to be very inappropriate and bad manners!

[whatsupdoc]

6 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

What makes you think that?

 

I know students who have failed Master and Bachelor degrees at Thai universities.

The students didn't show up at all??

[PREM-R]

So many posts in this thread have 'hit the nail on the head' regarding education in Thailand.  Westerners may see Thai education as a failure, but those who 'own' the country are delighted with the results, they are exactly what they require. 

 

The 'Dek Dee' system provides the country with future citizens (minions) who 'know their place' in society.  The poor get the basic indoctrination and those whose parents can scrape together the money for 'higher' education give their children the possibility to obtain the 'golden ticket'  to allow them to enter local government, education or work for a bank etc.  These minions are differentiated from the other minions by having a uniform to signify their 'superiority' over the basic minions. 

 

The hierarchical system remains in place and the, mostly, Sino-Thai's continue their domination of the country.

[ravip]

So as per the majority views it seems Thailand's  'dooms day'  is just around the corner.

How would it end?

Would Thai people be an extinct species?

Will they be colonized by some intelligent species?

 

Yea, how would it be? As there seems NOTHING correct in Thailand!

 

Edited May 10, 2018 by ravip

[JAG]

8 minutes ago, PREM-R said:

So many posts in this thread have 'hit the nail on the head' regarding education in Thailand.  Westerners may see Thai education as a failure, but those who 'own' the country are delighted with the results, they are exactly what they require. 

 

The 'Dek Dee' system provides the country with future citizens (minions) who 'know their place' in society.  The poor get the basic indoctrination and those whose parents can scrape together the money for 'higher' education give their children the possibility to obtain the 'golden ticket'  to allow them to enter local government, education or work for a bank etc.  These minions are differentiated from the other minions by having a uniform to signify their 'superiority' over the basic minions. 

 

The hierarchical system remains in place and the, mostly, Sino-Thai's continue their domination of the country.

I would argue that change is coming. The people now have access to communication channels, information and media which is not under the control of those who are uniformed. People always have a natural inquisitiveness and curiosity, and no longer can they be shut off from information and discussion. Once the poor, the minions, realise why they are poor, why they are minions then the pace of that change will grow like a snowball. It can't be stopped. It will be a very good thing for this society, and a very bad thing for the people who currently run it.