One killed in Paris knife attack by man shouting 'Allah Akbar'

[StreetCowboy]

3 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Unfortunately you’re trying to explain this to the already intolerant.

Without explanation, there can be no understanding.  If God wills that there should be no understanding that is His choice, not mine

[Chomper Higgot]

1 minute ago, RickBradford said:

You don't think that peace of Western democracy has been sufficiently destroyed by 500 citizens murdered by Islamic terrorists in the last 3 years?

 

Where's your limit? 1000? 5000? How many more teenagers have to be blown up by Muslim fanatics for you to admit there might be a problem? 

Well certainly a great many of our freedoms and liberties have been destroyed.

 

Not by the terrorists but by governments using their ‘war on terror’ as an excuse to remove those freedoms and liberties.

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

1 minute ago, RickBradford said:

Sorry.  I should have said we must be "tolerant"  and not stir up hatred against them just because they blow up children at pop concerts.

Well you should not participate in stirring hatered of innocent people.

 

But by all means join me in hating the actual individuals who kill. 

[StreetCowboy]

1 minute ago, RickBradford said:

Sorry.  I should have said we must be "tolerant"  and not stir up hatred against them just because they blow up children at pop concerts.

“They?”

Do you mean a few people who committed a crime, or millions of Muslims including my grocer?

 

If my grocer chooses to turn Southeastwards and chant Allah Akbar that is his business, not mine, just as if I choose to eat fish rather than meat on a Friday it is my business, not his.  If    I choose to drive home after too much to drink, that is not because I am an infidel, and if people commit heinous acts of mass murder, regardless of what they say, it has nothing to do with the religion of my grocer.

[Fish Head Soup]

1 hour ago, mauGR1 said:

Well, i am not likely to buy that, fanatics can be terrorists, and use religion as an excuse, but talking about Islamic terrorism is wrong for all the millions of peaceful Muslims living and working in Europe.

You know the Muslim population has a well known saying 'Europe is the cancer, Islam is the answer'.

 

 

 

[StreetCowboy]

Just now, Fish Head Soup said:

You know the Muslim population has a well known saying 'Europe is the cancer, Islam is the answer'.

 

 

 

You must know a different Muslim population than I do; given your acquaintances, I would think you could expect a chap from Special Branch chapping at your door shortly

[mauGR1]

2 minutes ago, Fish Head Soup said:

You know the Muslim population has a well known saying 'Europe is the cancer, Islam is the answer'.

 

 

 

Never heard that.

[Chomper Higgot]

2 minutes ago, Fish Head Soup said:

You know the Muslim population has a well known saying 'Europe is the cancer, Islam is the answer'.

 

 

 

Link

[Chomper Higgot]

3 minutes ago, Fish Head Soup said:

You know the Muslim population has a well known saying 'Europe is the cancer, Islam is the answer'.

 

 

 

This is an example of the Islamophobia that pervades TVF and that unfortunately is returnable in internet searches.

[StreetCowboy]

3 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Link

I think it’s just his mates. He seems to associate with a rough crowd; I’m worried that just by responding to his comment I’ll be stopped under the Internal Security Act on the way home tonight

[StreetCowboy]

5 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

This is an example of the Islamophobia that pervades TVF and that unfortunately is returnable in internet searches.

I was very surprised that Tun Mahathir gave his speech in English on Thursday night; that is something that would be more usefully searched on the internet.

[Fish Head Soup]

[StreetCowboy]

6 minutes ago, Fish Head Soup said:

If it was the will of Allah it would be written in Arabic,. Is it photoshopped on? You could use Google Translate to get the Arabic

[Chomper Higgot]

21 minutes ago, Fish Head Soup said:

Ooh look a man speaking on behalf of the whole of the Muslim population of Europe..... not!

[saakura]

3 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

So, a random nutter, probably unemployed, without anything to hope for, freaks out and start stabbing random people on the street, shouting "Allah akbar "  ( he could have shout " give me a beer ! )

... And then you have people talking... Islamist, terrorist blahblah..

I want to ask, all those random shooters in USA and to a lesser extent, Europe, are they branded Christian terrorists ?

They would be, if they had shouted "Jesus is the only God" or some such phrase before going on a rampage and killing innocents just becsuse they worship some other God.

Edited May 13, 2018 by saakura

[mauGR1]

Just now, saakura said:

They would be, if they had shouted "Jesus is the only God" or some such phrase.

No, majority of population in those places are agnostic, and counting.

My impression is that even among the Muslims the agnostic are growing, so there is hope after all.

[Morch]

57 minutes ago, StreetCowboy said:

If it was the will of Allah it would be written in Arabic,. Is it photoshopped on? You could use Google Translate to get the Arabic

 

"Is it photoshopped on?"

 

Nope.

 

2006 Islamist demonstration outside the Embassy of Denmark in London

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Islamist_demonstration_outside_the_Embassy_of_Denmark_in_London#The_protest

 

[Morch]

51 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Ooh look a man speaking on behalf of the whole of the Muslim population of Europe..... not!

 

There were, overall, thousands of participants in these specific protests. And there were many such placards with variations on the same theme. Granted, you can alter your comment to "Ooh look, thousands speaking on behalf of the whole of the Muslim population of Europe..." etc., and it would still apply, some.

Edited May 13, 2018 by Morch

[geriatrickid]

10 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Unsubstantiated diatribe.

 

 

Which part? Do you actually expect rational people to accept the premise that  terrorist killers just magically appear overnight? Or are we to believe that it is the fault of the west to have shown compassion and taken in the muslim refugees and economic migrants? This is how they repay the kindness of the non muslim west. 

 

Yesterday a family, consisting of the father, his two teenage sons, wife and two daughters set off bombs at  3 churches in Indonesia. Dad dropped off mom with her two  young daughters, and they blew up one church. Dad then drove to another church where he detonated. His two boys who were on a motorbike drove to another church and detonated.  That's what the  culture is. Children are used to  carry bombs. Parents teach their children to hate and to kill. At the mosque and in the community, teenage boys are taught to kill infidels.  This family was not isolated. It was a product of the culture that indoctrinates and teaches that all muslims are to be soldiers in the jihad.  You are in denial when you dismiss the reality. These people hate the west and they hate  Christians and Jews, Hindus and Bahais, Jains and Buddhists, agnostics and atheists. There is no compromise under their system of beliefs. It is their way or death.

[Fish Head Soup]

1 hour ago, mauGR1 said:

My impression is that even among the Muslims the agnostic are growing, so there is hope after all.

There can be no such thing as an agnostic Muslim. A Muslim has to believe with absolute certainty that Allah exists, and the punishment for leaving Islam is death. This is according to Sharia, which is based primarily on Quran and Sunnah.

 

Such a peaceful religion.

[geriatrickid]

4 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

So, a random nutter, probably unemployed, without anything to hope for, freaks out and start stabbing random people on the street, shouting "Allah akbar "  ( he could have shout " give me a beer ! )

... And then you have people talking... Islamist, terrorist blahblah..

I want to ask, all those random shooters in USA and to a lesser extent, Europe, are they branded Christian terrorists ?

No, because Christianity is not a factor in their killing.The most recent mass murderers in the USA and EU that you refer to have definitely been mentally ill and have had no association with Christianity. Perhaps if they had been religious Christians they would not have  killed people.

 

I believe that  the reason for the lack of the Christianity caused attacks is directly related to the religion itself. A true believer, a devout Christian, would take the commandant of Thou Shalt Not Kill to heart. Islam teaches its followers to kill infidels and to kill, and to keep killing. A true believer is taught to kill the infidel.

 

It is obvious that you do not know much about Christianity and its philosophy of peace and of love and forgiveness. Let me help you with some  Bible passages that promote peace.  If you wish to learn more about Christianity and its core value of peace, please visit your local Christian teaching center.

 

Colossians 3:15 - Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, since as members of one body you were called to peace. And be thankful.

 

Peter 3:11 - They must turn from evil and do good; they must seek peace and pursue it.

 

Thessalonians 5:15 -  Make sure that nobody pays back wrong for wrong, but always strive to do what is good for each other and for everyone else.

 

James 3:18 - Peacemakers who sow in peace reap a harvest of righteousness.

 

Proverbs 12:20 -  Deceit is in the hearts of those who plot evil, but those who promote peace have joy.

 

Psalm 29:11 -  The LORD gives strength to his people; the LORD blesses his people with peace.

 

Romans 12:18 - If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone.

 

Romans 14:19 -  Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification.

 

Psalm 34:14 -  Turn from evil and do good; seek peace and pursue it.

 

Peter 3:9-11 -  Do not repay evil with evil or insult with insult. On the contrary, repay evil with blessing, because to this you were called so that you may inherit a blessing.  For, “Whoever would love life and see good days must keep their tongue from evil and their lips from deceitful speech.  They must turn from evil and do good; they must seek peace and pursue it.

 

Psalm 37:37 -  Consider the blameless, observe the upright; a future awaits those who seek peace.

 

 

 

(And who thought that my Church of England school with its mandatory scripture study and church services wouldn't help me at some point in my life.    )

 

 

 

 

 

[Morch]

21 minutes ago, Fish Head Soup said:

There can be no such thing as an agnostic Muslim. A Muslim has to believe with absolute certainty that Allah exists, and the punishment for leaving Islam is death. This is according to Sharia, which is based primarily on Quran and Sunnah.

 

Such a peaceful religion.

 

There are people answering Buddhist, Christian ,Jewish or whatever when asked about their faith. That doesn't necessarily say a whole lot about how deep their convictions run, how closely they follow edicts and such. Muslims aren't all that different. Some are  more into it than other.

[katana]

6 hours ago, The Deerhunter said:

Mohammed appeares to have had different slants on treatment of other religions at different periods of his career.  The Koran reflects this and like the other bible is full of contradictions.  In his earlier period before he became so powerful he was more accomodating to others.  So like other religions you can tout the bits you like from your holy book and ignore the bits that contradict them: As mistranslated, misunderstood or anomalies of their time.  All the nice things people attribute to Mohammed make it hard to understand the hard line ISIS types' interpretation of the religion of peace until you accept this.

 

 

You have neglected the concept of abrogation in the Koran though.
In Surah 2 Verse 6 Allah declares the doctrine of abrogation:
"Whatever communications we abrogate or cause to be forgotten, we bring one better than it or like it. Better than it or like it.
Do you not know that Allah has power over all things?"
When muslims are faced with conflicting commands in the Koran, they are not to chose the one they like the best, they have to pick the verse revealed last.
Whichever verse came last is said to abrogate or cancel earlier revelations.
Commands from Allah to kill the unbelievers are what dominate the later part of the Koran (Medina), and these commands cancel out those few earlier commands (Mecca) which might suggest that Islam is a peaceful and tolerant religion.
One of the most violent verses in the Koran is the Verse of the Sword (9:5).
It was one of the last things Mohamed said before he died and abrogates all previous peaceful verses:
(9:5) "Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them,
and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush.
But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free.
Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful"
Jihadis around the world not only kill by beheading with a sword, they understand the significance of the verse of the sword.

[simple1]

7 hours ago, fanjita said:

This is too radical, I know.  How about treating all potential terrorism suspects as just that and interning them on some remote island.  

 

I'm open to consultancy services for European governments.  It won't go down well but I know what I'm talking about.

Mass internment has already been tried, believe it exacerbated problems. 

[simple1]

7 hours ago, RickBradford said:

 ** Don't comprehend why you and your clique rush to denigrate first reports without pausing for security agencies to do some background checking and brief media. **

 

I don't have a "clique".

 

I'm pointing out the unarguable fact that the mainstream media will do anything possible to avoid mentioning the suggestion that Islamic terrorism in Europe represents any sort of a problem.

 

Their knee-jerk reaction is to :

 

 * bury the news,

 * distort it by highlighting the perpetrators' acquired European citizenship

 * cite mental issues, or drug use

 * as a final ploy, try to make an equivalence between murderous Islamic terrorists, and Right-wing thugs.

 

All of it is sophistry of the first order. You would think the media actually encourages these attacks.

MSM rely on police media briefings to provide background facts and their own research. If you don't like reported facts, so be it. However, it is your ideological spin that takes umbridge, not facts - you create & own your issues not the media.

[The Renegade]

Quote

Laurent Wauquiez, leader of the centre-right Republicans, accused Mr Macron of “blindness and inaction”. He demanded the deportation of foreigners on an intelligence agency watch list of potential jihadists and said that the most radical of the French citizens on the list, which contains about 9,700 names, should be detained as a preventive measure.

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/world/macron-faces-call-for-islamist-crackdown-after-knife-rampage-in-paris-vj0fc0vrt

 

In the deep bowels, within the protected walls of Government. Some people are beginning to wake up and smell the coffee.

[Chomper Higgot]

7 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

Which part? Do you actually expect rational people to accept the premise that  terrorist killers just magically appear overnight? Or are we to believe that it is the fault of the west to have shown compassion and taken in the muslim refugees and economic migrants? This is how they repay the kindness of the non muslim west. 

 

Yesterday a family, consisting of the father, his two teenage sons, wife and two daughters set off bombs at  3 churches in Indonesia. Dad dropped off mom with her two  young daughters, and they blew up one church. Dad then drove to another church where he detonated. His two boys who were on a motorbike drove to another church and detonated.  That's what the  culture is. Children are used to  carry bombs. Parents teach their children to hate and to kill. At the mosque and in the community, teenage boys are taught to kill infidels.  This family was not isolated. It was a product of the culture that indoctrinates and teaches that all muslims are to be soldiers in the jihad.  You are in denial when you dismiss the reality. These people hate the west and they hate  Christians and Jews, Hindus and Bahais, Jains and Buddhists, agnostics and atheists. There is no compromise under their system of beliefs. It is their way or death.

More hyperbole.

 

How many Muslims in the West, how many are terrorists?

 

The West is at war with ISIS, that war is asymmetric. 

You wilfully, and without any evidence, attribute the attrocities commited by ISIS and ISIS supporters with all Muslims.

 

You pointedly refuse to accept the observable fact that the vast majority of Muslims are peace loving law abiding people who like the vast majority of non Muslims do not go around hating, killing or injuring people.

 

You yourself are a fear and hatred monger.

 

You are, as I have pointed out above, eagerly playing the part terrorists and extremists have planned for you.

 

[Chomper Higgot]

7 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

No, because Christianity is not a factor in their killing.The most recent mass murderers in the USA and EU that you refer to have definitely been mentally ill and have had no association with Christianity. Perhaps if they had been religious Christians they would not have  killed people.

 

I believe that  the reason for the lack of the Christianity caused attacks is directly related to the religion itself. A true believer, a devout Christian, would take the commandant of Thou Shalt Not Kill to heart. Islam teaches its followers to kill infidels and to kill, and to keep killing. A true believer is taught to kill the infidel.

 

It is obvious that you do not know much about Christianity and its philosophy of peace and of love and forgiveness. Let me help you with some  Bible passages that promote peace.  If you wish to learn more about Christianity and its core value of peace, please visit your local Christian teaching center.

 

Colossians 3:15 - Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, since as members of one body you were called to peace. And be thankful.

 

Peter 3:11 - They must turn from evil and do good; they must seek peace and pursue it.

 

Thessalonians 5:15 -  Make sure that nobody pays back wrong for wrong, but always strive to do what is good for each other and for everyone else.

 

James 3:18 - Peacemakers who sow in peace reap a harvest of righteousness.

 

Proverbs 12:20 -  Deceit is in the hearts of those who plot evil, but those who promote peace have joy.

 

Psalm 29:11 -  The LORD gives strength to his people; the LORD blesses his people with peace.

 

Romans 12:18 - If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone.

 

Romans 14:19 -  Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification.

 

Psalm 34:14 -  Turn from evil and do good; seek peace and pursue it.

 

Peter 3:9-11 -  Do not repay evil with evil or insult with insult. On the contrary, repay evil with blessing, because to this you were called so that you may inherit a blessing.  For, “Whoever would love life and see good days must keep their tongue from evil and their lips from deceitful speech.  They must turn from evil and do good; they must seek peace and pursue it.

 

Psalm 37:37 -  Consider the blameless, observe the upright; a future awaits those who seek peace.

 

 

 

(And who thought that my Church of England school with its mandatory scripture study and church services wouldn't help me at some point in my life.    )

 

 

 

 

 

I’m impressed, somebody took the time to give you bible class and you remembered the good bits.

 

Imagine now if you took the time to find out what the Koran has to say from someone who wants you to understand in context rather than relying on Islamophobic websites and purveyors of Islamophobia for your “knowledge”.

[simple1]

1 hour ago, The Renegade said:

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/world/macron-faces-call-for-islamist-crackdown-after-knife-rampage-in-paris-vj0fc0vrt

 

In the deep bowels, within the protected walls of Government. Some people are beginning to wake up and smell the coffee.

Laurent Wauquiez is just playing to his own radical audience. 

 

France has been deporting Islamists encouraging violence for years, including closing mosques hosting Islamist Imams and so on - you should wake up and smell the coffee.

[Chomper Higgot]

6 hours ago, katana said:

You have neglected the concept of abrogation in the Koran though.

You nothing of the subject that you did not get from an Islamophobic website.

 

(Easily found by pasting the quotes you’ve given into google).

 

Here’s a little mind tool for you to use, it’s ‘open source’ so you can use it for free:

 

When somebody (an individual/organisation/newspaper/website/government/political group etc) take the trouble to provide you with a description or information about another person or group of people, ask yourself three question in the following order:

 

1. Why is this person/people bothering to tell me this?

 

2. Is what this person/people are telling me true?

 

3. Am I interested in knowing about the person/people being described?

 

Questions 1 and 2 will help you avoid being played for somebody else’s fool.

 

Question 3 will prompt you to either pass the whole issue as something you’re not interested in OR prompt you to go find out the truth by talking directly with the person/people being described.

 

Feel free to apply this liberally.