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Israeli forces kill dozens in Gaza as U.S. Embassy opens in Jerusalem


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2 hours ago, carmine said:

IDF also used white phosphorous in recent years but apparently that was ok with the Americans to.

 

But lets make this clear, if its Syria, for example,  and not Israel using weapons outlawed by the Geneva Convention is not ok.  But Israel gets a pass.

During Iraq War 11 US forces acknowledged use of white phosphorus munitions, therefore not likely US would condemn the IDF.

Edited by simple1
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4 hours ago, Morch said:

 

That's the post you responded to:

 

https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/1038253-israeli-forces-kill-dozens-in gaza as-us-embassy-opens-in-jerusalem/?page=14&tab=comments#comment-12988432

 

Seems like you either responded to the wrong post, or judging by the second and third paragraphs, simply going off on a tangent.

 

Not at all my learned friend. I'm pointing out that suggesting there are a plethora of options is quite simply untrue.

 

As for your conclusion - if Israel is backed by such muscle, then there are smarter, wiser ways of addressing the situation than picking a futile fight. There are other ways of resisting an occupation or a blockade, and there are better ways of to improve the lot of your people.

 

The options are be subjugated or fight for your freedom and die. Which would you choose?

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, midas said:

It's not the religion bit part that I find hard to understand, it's more to do with the absolute duplicity that Israel has the gall to accuse another nation of " crimes against humanity "(when even the victims  of such alleged attack have denied anything took place) . The hypocrisy is too much to take in

 

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/israel-condemns-syria-chemical-attack-as-crimes-against-humanity-1.5988849

 

Indeed. What happened to the Canaanites?  

 

 

 

 

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12 minutes ago, notmyself said:

 

Aye. It doesn't even have to be true because the utter hypocrisy is that it is celebrated.

What on earth has that got to do with Israel currently committing war crimes for the whole world to see?

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17 minutes ago, midas said:

What on earth has that got to do with Israel currently committing war crimes for the whole world to see?

 

Genocide of the Canaanites is celebrated so committing war crimes is not considered an issue.... unless it is done by other people such as in Syria.

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9 hours ago, Ahab said:

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Cutting through the fence and then charging at Israeli soldiers with knives, axes, whatever, and you get exactly what you deserve. Hamas leadership doesn't give a crap about how many protesters are killed, the more that are killed or injured, the better the anti-Israeli headlines.

 

If you are anti-Israel on this topic take some time and read up on what is really going on. If you are still pro-Palestinian/Hamas there is no help for you.

But even a former Israeli sniper who appeared in an interview on sky News this morning said he has never before seen the IDC firing on civilians who are not only unarmed by IDC standards but are also a considerable distance away the border fence.

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5 hours ago, farcanell said:

 

Yes yes... if only those dirty rotten Egyptians would lift the blockade, all would be well. 

 

That said, I’m not sure referencing the Geneva convention will win many points given the multitude of breach’s by the Gazan gubment... breach’s which isreal cite as evidence requiring continuation of the blockade, for its protection, as allowed by article 242 ( well 200 and something) of convention

 

meanwhile, y’all must remember that Gaza was illegally seized by hamas, an anti Semitic organization of islamists, whose founding and ongoing charter calls for the obliteration of a Jewish state

 

you cant be any clearer than that, in a declaration of war

 

so... back to Egypt... if only they would lift their blockade, allowing non combatants to leave the area, such that they can’t be used as shields (oops... breach of Geneva convention.... but a tactic favored by Muslims, as seen in the Iraqi wars as well), then Hamas fighters could have the war they want, in line with their charter mission of obliterating isreal.

 

yet no one is vilifying Egypt.... the only conclusion for that, would be that it’s not really about the blockade... but about anti Semitic rioting, and it’s response... an announced response, in line with the Geneva conventions rules on urban warfare.

The reason nobody is 'vilifying Egypt' is Egyptian forces have not just slaughtered 58 Palestinians and injured a further 2,500.

 

Let me know if you have trouble understanding that. 

 

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1 hour ago, midas said:

But even a former Israeli sniper who appeared in an interview on sky News this morning said he has never before seen the IDC firing on civilians who are not only unarmed by IDC standards but are also a considerable distance away the border fence.

Please provide a link to this statement.

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1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Please provide a link to this statement.

Hi Comper . I pre-empted this kind of request by looking for a link but I haven't been able to find one. But it's not surprising really because the former sniper that I refer to was being interviewed in one of the regular news bulletins on sky in the morning (this was about 8 a.m. this morning)

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2 minutes ago, lionsincity said:

these are crimes against humanity, plain and simple.

But very sadly it's pretty clear the way the world is set up the moment they can get away with it every time.

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5 hours ago, simple1 said:

Looking at the situation with eyes wide open, not with emotion.

Silent over posts of blatant Islamophobia, offering excuses for a mass killing base on 'hypothetical outcomes' and making statements with respect to the actions or motives of the Palestinians for which he has no evidence.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, midas said:

Hi Comper . I pre-empted this kind of request by looking for a link but I haven't been able to find one. But it's not surprising really because the former sniper that I refer to was being interviewed in one of the regular news bulletins on sky in the morning (this was about 8 a.m. this morning)

 

Show me the money Lebowski.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, notmyself said:

 

Show me the money Lebowski.

 

 

Well surely this video clip shows the mentality of the snipers as of today? How long will we have to wait for their " thorough investigation "?

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/apr/10/video-appears-show-cheers-israeli-sniper-shoots-palestinian

Edited by midas
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5 hours ago, carmine said:

Yes good point about "some" of the Israeli soldiers.  Soldiers conscripted and doing their annual service might well be thugs in person, not as well disciplined.  If its individuals that have stepped out of line something needs to be done and i do think the actions this past week deserve a major inquiry because i think we can all agree it really hasn't gone as well as it might.

I certainly agree that this past week's events deserve a major inquiry. 

 

But as participants in the events, neither the Palestinians nor the Israelis can expected to provide an unbiased inquiry and report. 

 

Let's see which side is open to a third party investigation and which side is not. 

 

 

(The argument that there might be 'thugs' conscripted into the IDF, that these individuals are 'not as well disciplined' and that 'If its individuals that have stepped out of line something needs to be done' is spacious. 

 

The IDF are agents of the Israeli government, they have a command structure. The line of responsibility is in direct line with the line of command. 

 

Somebody gave orders, somebody gave the terms of engagement, somebody is responsible for discipline. 

 

Rogue thugs might exist, but their actions are taken as members of the IDF.

 

If there is no response to identify and prosecute rogue thugs then the IDF have no recourse to blame deaths on the actions of rogue thugs, and neither does anyone else.

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15 minutes ago, midas said:

Hi Comper . I pre-empted this kind of request by looking for a link but I haven't been able to find one. But it's not surprising really because the former sniper that I refer to was being interviewed in one of the regular news bulletins on sky in the morning (this was about 8 a.m. this morning)

The reason I ask for the link is because, just as I have challenged people providing excuses for this mass killing to provide evidence of the claims they make (non yet forthcoming), those making accusations against the IDF must also provide their evidence. 

 

I think in fairness you should find your link or withdraw your statement.

 

There are 58 dead people and 2,500 wounded. The circumstances of such mass killing and mass injuries will be supported by hard evidence. 

 

Example: Proximity to the fence or otherwise of the injured/dead when they were shot? Evidence or otherwise of the injured/dead wielding weapons. 

(When I asked these questions earlier I was accused of being a troll, but it is questions like these that will reveal what actually happened and who's claims are true/false).

 

Let's see which side supports and independent inquiry. 

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The reason I ask for the link is because, just as I have challenged people providing excuses for this mass killing to provide evidence of the claims they make (non yet forthcoming), those making accusations against the IDF must also provide their evidence. 

 

I think in fairness you should find your link or withdraw your statement.

 

There are 58 dead people and 2,500 wounded. The circumstances of such mass killing and mass injuries will be supported by hard evidence. 

 

Example: Proximity to the fence or otherwise of the injured/dead when they were shot? Evidence or otherwise of the injured/dead wielding weapons. 

(When I asked these questions earlier I was accused of being a troll, but it is questions like these that will reveal what actually happened and who's claims are true/false).

 

Let's see which side supports and independent inquiry. 

 

 

No I will absolutely not withdraw my statement! I heard it and saw it with my own eyes and ears this morning as I was eating my breakfast. If I went to an awful lot of trouble I probably could recovery from the archives of sky News but it was definitely shown on their television segment this morning

Edited by midas
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3 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

They have all the appearance of a crime against humanity.

 

Let's see which side supports and independent inquiry. 

But which party or parties (other than USA) will Israel ever accept as an authority to hand down a decision to such independent enquiry?

Edited by midas
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44 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The reason nobody is 'vilifying Egypt' is Egyptian forces have not just slaughtered 58 Palestinians and injured a further 2,500.

 

Let me know if you have trouble understanding that. 

 

???? are the palestinians rioting on the border being enforced by  Egypt?...if not, there’s your answer.... easy to understand, really....  don’t ya think?

 

the point being, this is not about illegal border sanctions / access, if Egypt is not similarly assaulted... but about a religious war, where the aggressors ( those attacking the border, intent on breaching it, by fair or foul means) are clearly intent on the obliteration of the state of Israel.

 

In simplistic term, Hamas are inciting Gazans to attack a border, which isreal has announced it will defend... as in, come any closer and we will shoot at you. It is required, by law, to make these announcements,( and it has done)..... if people still choose to attack the border, especially after the very first person was shot, then they are making foolish decisions, that they know full well might result in their death... it’s a choice that they have made... they must bear the responsibility for their decision, not Israel 

 

that said... how about the kids... what kind of parent would let their children play amongst live fire from an enemy.... perhaps a zealot. Certainly not a responsible parent

 

so who is really defending the indefensible? The Gazans are deliberately pushing their children etc out in front of enemy guns that they know full well, will be used, and enduring a self made slaughter (contrary to the Geneva convention, for what it’s worth).... which is great for Hamas.

 

the call should be for hamas to discontinue rioting... the call should be for disbanding hamas, who’s prime reason, per their charter, is to obliterate isreal ( that’s the word they use in their mission statement... obliterate), then perhaps there may be a chance for peace... until then, isreal will defend itself from attack.... and they believe this an attack, even if you don't 

 

Or maybe hamas could change their charter, just a wee bit, to perhaps remove the nessesity to slaughter ALL the Jews of isreal... that might help

 

Anyway... per your posts, I see you have trouble understanding that.... but other than explaining things as I (a non partisan atheist) see them, there’s little else I can do for you.

 

 

Edited by farcanell
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6 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Victim blaming.

 

Who in the right mind gives an order to fire live ammunition into a protest crowd?

 

No, not "victim blaming". The focus in my posts is mainly on the leadership which engineers, promotes and allows its people to come in harm's way. There may have been some redeeming value to it, if the whole thing wasn't both futile and cynical. I do not see Hamas leadership or operatives as victims, whereas ordinary Gazans are for the most part caught up in this.

 

As posted earlier, I don't see the way Israel handled this as bereft of legal and moral issues.

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