8 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Yeah, it's interesting to me that the Israel demonization agenda always mentions low (or no) Israeli casualties as if that is a bad thing. To the mostly young soldiers and Israeli families, that is a very good thing! Again, if those "protesters" had picked another venue and/or kept a very safe distance without tire burning and attempts to cut fences, the Gazan families could be happy as well. 

They have a death wish.

1 minute ago, notmyself said:

 

How dare they walk around their own land! Interesting to note that Israel says they had no choice other than to use live rounds because plastic bullets or PBRs are ineffective at [that] range. 

 

 

Well done Israel. They have balls to take care of themselves and their 1 nation.

29 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

He has a point though. It's weird that so many people can't accept the existence of just one small Jewish majority nation when the same people never suggest it is not OK for there to be over 50 Muslim dominated ones. 

Might have something to do with who was living on that land before the Jewish state was founded.

1 minute ago, stevenl said:

Might have something to do with who was living on that land before the Jewish state was founded.

Yes the Invaders were.

1 minute ago, Justfine said:

Well done Israel. They have balls to take care of themselves and their 1 nation.

 

So these 58 dead were killed on Israeli land?

 

2 minutes ago, Justfine said:

Yes the Invaders were.

 

 

1 minute ago, notmyself said:

 

So these 58 dead were killed on Israeli land?

 

Just protecting the borders. 

3 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Might have something to do with who was living on that land before the Jewish state was founded.

So what's the end game? Are the Palestinians going to act like they're "refugees" 1000 years from now when the live in the middle of a very large region that is massively dominated by Arabs? The Jews booted out of nations all over the Middle East and North Africa aren't saving their "keys" anymore. Maybe worth following their example. 

1 minute ago, Justfine said:

Just protecting the borders. 

 

Laughable.

 

Why did you kill that Palestinian? 

He was attacking Sir

Why did you not used rubber bullets?

He was too far away Sir

 

Very good.... carry on.

 

 

 

 

 

28 minutes ago, Justfine said:

Antisemitism is alive and well.

Absolutely it is, Antisemitism is alive and well and must be combatted where ever it raises its festering hatred.

 

Point it out and I’ll gladly join you slapping it down.

After years and years of continual nonsense I don't think many people in the west care any more.  Let's face it, if a Palestinian approached the firing line they would know that Israel would defend their position.  I'm not taking sides either.  

2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Absolutely it is, Antisemitism is alive and well and must be combatted where ever it raises its festering hatred.

 

Point it out and I’ll gladly join you slapping it down.

Chill out.

So  which country (or countries) can possibly act as a credible intermediary in any future potential peace talks now that the credibility of the USA in that role has been totally shot to pieces.?

Paddy Ashdown was interviewed on sky News earlier and mentioned the Secretary-General of the United Nations was calling for an independent enquiry into the killing of so many Palestinians. But of course as one expects now such independent enquiry immediately denied by Israel. So what possible hope is there for Israel to accept another country other than its closest ally to act as a true independent mediator?

43 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

He has a point though. It's weird that so many people can't accept the existence of just one small Jewish majority nation when the same people never suggest it is not OK for there to be over 50 Muslim dominated ones. 

I suspect there are a lot of people who share my view, supportive of a Jewish State, supportive of a two state solution to the Israel/Palestine conflict but absolutely not supportive of Israel’s consistent use of violence, land grabs, collective punishments and abuses of human rights.

 

This last atrocity, the killing of dozens of people is an example of exactly what I, and I am sure many others cannot support.

 

If Israel believes its actions are just, let’s have a transparent investigation by an international third party. 

 

I’ll not hold my breath.

3 minutes ago, midas said:

Paddy Ashdown was interviewed on sky News earlier and mentioned the Secretary-General of the United Nations was calling for an independent enquiry into the killing of so many Palestinians. But of course as one expects now such independent enquiry immediately denied by Israel.

 

U.S. will veto it as per usual even though it is perfectly reasonable. It's the same with building on occupied land... Illegal under international law but Israel disputes it. Easy way to find out if it is indeed illegal but the U.S. veto's and will continue to veto any official study to find out because they know that it would not go in their favour. 

12 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

...

 

I’ll not hold my breath.

Smart boy.

32 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Yeah, it's interesting to me that the Israel demonization agenda always mentions low (or no) Israeli casualties as if that is a bad thing. To the mostly young soldiers and Israeli families, that is a very good thing! Again, if those "protesters" had picked another venue and/or kept a very safe distance without tire burning and attempts to cut fences, the Gazan families could be happy as well. 

Low/zero Israeli casualties wrt to dozens of Palestinians killed and injured is not a ‘demonization’.

 

It’s evidence of overwhelming force, force that is beyond reasonable.

 

 By example: Police forces in Europe have frequently faced large scale riots in which rioters have used petrol bombs, and in some cases small arms. They have very rarely needed to resort to live arms fire and have never in modern history killed dozens of protesters or rioters.

 

I’ll remind you, non of these protestors entered Israel. 

 

Israeli forces killed these Palestinians in Gaza.

 

 

1 minute ago, notmyself said:

 

U.S. will veto it as per usual even though it is perfectly reasonable. It's the same with building on occupied land... Illegal under international law but Israel disputes it. Easy way to find out if it is indeed illegal but the U.S. veto's and will continue to veto any official study to find out because they know that it would not go in their favour. 

I can't believe the international system can remain so flawed. How can there possibly be any justice under these circumstances? While people are being killed mercilessly.

52 minutes ago, puipuitom said:

 

What would YOU do, as Israeli soldier: wait, till a 10-30.000 young and angry men are OVER the fence, and free to walk inside Israel, knowing they have ONE and ONE wish only: KILL Israelis of.. stop them BEFORE they are over that fence ?

 

Remind: Israeli’s and Palestinians lived from 1967-around 1995 quite peacefully together, till the terrorist killing, done by HAMAS and others became so strong, the Israeli’s had no other choice than build a huge and very costly wall.

 

With more willingness to find a solution... the border would be now still the same as in that time, looking more to the heavily fortified and impregnable border between Belgium and Netherlands... with Dutch living in B and Belgians living in NL...

Your argument that the victims of systematic oppression brought it on themselves is not new, look it up.

 

I guess you are right though, the Palestinians could have sat quietly as they were systematically stripped of their homeland. 

9 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Smart boy.

Letting an injustice rot is never smart.

9 minutes ago, midas said:

I can't believe the international system can remain so flawed. How can there possibly be any justice under these circumstances? While people are being killed mercilessly.

It's an internal issue and entirely between themselves.  Let them get on with it and don't stress.

10 minutes ago, midas said:

I can't believe the international system can remain so flawed. How can there possibly be any justice under these circumstances? While people are being killed mercilessly.

 

Religion has a veto on it. It would have been solved decades ago if it were just about land.

2 minutes ago, fanjita said:

It's an internal issue and entirely between themselves.  Let them get on with it and don't stress.

 

Will the U.S. and Europe do the same? If not then not an internal issue.

2 minutes ago, notmyself said:

Will the U.S. and Europe do the same? If not then not an internal issue.

Not sure what you mean, but let them get on with it.  Nothing has changed and nothing will ever change.  The Palestinians will even things up with knife and bomb attacks.  

 

There, is that better?

32 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Smart boy.

What is your view of moving the Embassy? 

2 hours ago, Jingthing said:

You lost me when you said the Gaza barrier is illegal. 

 

The ICJ has declared it in violation of UN obligations, thus illegal.

20 minutes ago, fanjita said:

Not sure what you mean, but let them get on with it.  Nothing has changed and nothing will ever change.  The Palestinians will even things up with knife and bomb attacks.  

 

There, is that better?

 

Will the U.S. for example, stay out of an internal matter. If they continue to veto U.N. issues then clearly not.

 

 

A post violating Fair Use Policy has been removed.   You can only quote 3 sentences and then a link to the remainder of the article. 

6 hours ago, dexterm said:

In the 21st century you can't conquer lands, annex them, illegally occupy 4.5 million dispossessed people then shoot them if they want to return to their homes. Most of us nowadays live in more enlightened times under international law.

 

Would love to debate Zionist mythology but in a more appropriate thread perhaps.

 

Suggest you view "the Nakba" documenatries where eye witnesses from both sides are interviewed... available on youtube if you are interested in history.

 

So... the Greeks can also return to their Trabson and Smyrna ( now Izmir), the Turks back to (Thes)Salloniki see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_exchange_between_Greece_and_Turkey , the Germans back to Memel, Koenigsberg, Breslau, Danzig and Stettin, the Poles back to were they originate from, and same for MANY nations in Eastern Europe see https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/war/forced-population-transfers.htm and 

see https://en.wikipedia.org/.../Population_exchange_between_Poland_and_Soviet_Ukrai...

1.  
2. 
    

, the Pakistani back into India, the Indians back into Pakistan see https://sites.hks.harvard.edu/fs/akhwaja/papers/BigMarchOct2008.pdf , and the Taiwanese mainlanders... back into Mainland China...

 

Bye-the-way: Americans ( N, M+ S), go home to Europe , together with the Australians and New Zealanders etc...

 

The main mistake was made by leaving the Palestinians semi-locked up, instead of a refugee-swap jews ex the Arab world into Israel versus Palestinians into the Arab world.

 

When the Palestinians did not start their terror in the end of the 80's... there would be now no problem, but Israëli's and Arabs mixed up over all that area.

 

For history... I look to publications like of the UN, NOT one--sided of any party. 

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

So what's the end game? Are the Palestinians going to act like they're "refugees" 1000 years from now when the live in the middle of a very large region that is massively dominated by Arabs? The Jews booted out of nations all over the Middle East and North Africa aren't saving their "keys" anymore. Maybe worth following their example. 

Nothing to do with my comment, which was a response to you showing surprise at people being angry.