nice video about fat loss

[robblok]

There is a lot to learn from bodybuilders, i know many people consider them freaks, but not all are super huge. But these are the guys that regularly shed loads of weight. They certainly have their ways to do it. 

 

But the main thing is to  hold on to muscle during weight loss, we all want fat loss not muscle loss weight loss is pointless we all want fat loss. The best thing is to lift some weights to hold on to muscle. 

[dontoearth]

Here is a really good article on IF and Muscle Loss.  It advocates exercise especially resistance training to preserve muscle.

https://idmprogram.com/fasting-and-muscle-mass-fasting-part-14/

 

[dontoearth]

6 hours ago, robblok said:

There is a lot to learn from bodybuilders, i know many people consider them freaks, but not all are super huge. But these are the guys that regularly shed loads of weight. They certainly have their ways to do it. 

 

But the main thing is to  hold on to muscle during weight loss, we all want fat loss not muscle loss weight loss is pointless we all want fat loss. The best thing is to lift some weights to hold on to muscle. 

     The biggest problem with bodybuilders is trying to figure out which ones are following the advice they are giving in their messages and boards and youtubes and websites, and which ones are just using every illegal drug possible for their gains and selling the powders, pills, and programs to finance the steriods.  You usually find out at their sudden death like Zyzzz.   An unfortunate thing for everyone involved.

      I do look at youtubes from time to time but gave up all the body builder forums ages ago.  Don't see much of use or interest in the forums.

[robblok]

3 hours ago, dontoearth said:

     The biggest problem with bodybuilders is trying to figure out which ones are following the advice they are giving in their messages and boards and youtubes and websites, and which ones are just using every illegal drug possible for their gains and selling the powders, pills, and programs to finance the steriods.  You usually find out at their sudden death like Zyzzz.   An unfortunate thing for everyone involved.

      I do look at youtubes from time to time but gave up all the body builder forums ages ago.  Don't see much of use or interest in the forums.

Yes you have to find out what ones are knowledgeable and what ones are not. 

 

I given up on the likes of Jason Fong and others that just promote 1 way and burn all other things down. People like that are like religious fanatics. I prefer more balanced views, the bodybuilders selling crap are the ones I also don't really listen to. I prefer people who discuss all diets with their pre and cons and when certain things are good or bad. 

[dontoearth]

2 hours ago, robblok said:

Yes you have to find out what ones are knowledgeable and what ones are not. 

 

I given up on the likes of Jason Fong and others that just promote 1 way and burn all other things down. People like that are like religious fanatics. I prefer more balanced views, the bodybuilders selling crap are the ones I also don't really listen to. I prefer people who discuss all diets with their pre and cons and when certain things are good or bad. 

     I don't think you have ever looked at the work of Jason Fung.  He indeed advocates 2 or 3 different strategies.  He has covered  Keto and promotes IF in various forms and has advocated surgery techniques.  He is a medical doctor which you are not going to find many of those on the bodybuilding boards.

      He doesn't advocate your methods but that is mainly because they would not work for his population.  He doesn't have lots of bodybuilders in his practice in Canada.  He had mainly older working class retired adults that needed a program they could follow.  He wanted to do Atkins and asked for a service in his office to help him with that project.

        In one of his interviews he did say the National Health Service gave him a dietitian to help with his patients.  He found out after a few months that the dietitian believed in balanced diets and was putting plenty of carbs into each and every plan.   He fired her and rightly so since his original practice was filled with patients labeled terminal from kidney failure due to diabetes complications.  They indeed could not tolerate a balanced carb diet for pretty obvious reasons.

         Would you advocate your methods for this population?

        So if there is no one size fits all and perfect solution why can't people follow Fung?

        Doctors that are willing to work with terminal patients...and then turn around the lives of 1,000's of them maybe have the right to be religious fanatics.  He is promoting a totally different view of many aspects of medicine and he has been joined by 1,000's of doctors now if you look at his presentations before professional medical groups its obvious many in the medical profession realize something is wrong with their treatment programs.

        So other than the method you are promoting?  Any others you think are ok?   I have used the calorie counting and food restriction and exercise programs before.  NO RESULTS is the reason I don't advocate them anymore.  Actually, I don't advocate them because like most people I saw endless rebounds and weight gain as the only real results.   If we are supposed to pick something we can do long term I could not do that program.

          I am pleased with what I am doing.  And glad to tell people if they ask.  I don't make comments on some things in the forum.  Just not worth it.  I don't see that as being a religious fanatic at all.  I think your statements are a little harsh.

      

 

[robblok]

8 hours ago, dontoearth said:

     I don't think you have ever looked at the work of Jason Fung.  He indeed advocates 2 or 3 different strategies.  He has covered  Keto and promotes IF in various forms and has advocated surgery techniques.  He is a medical doctor which you are not going to find many of those on the bodybuilding boards.

      He doesn't advocate your methods but that is mainly because they would not work for his population.  He doesn't have lots of bodybuilders in his practice in Canada.  He had mainly older working class retired adults that needed a program they could follow.  He wanted to do Atkins and asked for a service in his office to help him with that project.

        In one of his interviews he did say the National Health Service gave him a dietitian to help with his patients.  He found out after a few months that the dietitian believed in balanced diets and was putting plenty of carbs into each and every plan.   He fired her and rightly so since his original practice was filled with patients labeled terminal from kidney failure due to diabetes complications.  They indeed could not tolerate a balanced carb diet for pretty obvious reasons.

         Would you advocate your methods for this population?

        So if there is no one size fits all and perfect solution why can't people follow Fung?

        Doctors that are willing to work with terminal patients...and then turn around the lives of 1,000's of them maybe have the right to be religious fanatics.  He is promoting a totally different view of many aspects of medicine and he has been joined by 1,000's of doctors now if you look at his presentations before professional medical groups its obvious many in the medical profession realize something is wrong with their treatment programs.

        So other than the method you are promoting?  Any others you think are ok?   I have used the calorie counting and food restriction and exercise programs before.  NO RESULTS is the reason I don't advocate them anymore.  Actually, I don't advocate them because like most people I saw endless rebounds and weight gain as the only real results.   If we are supposed to pick something we can do long term I could not do that program.

          I am pleased with what I am doing.  And glad to tell people if they ask.  I don't make comments on some things in the forum.  Just not worth it.  I don't see that as being a religious fanatic at all.  I think your statements are a little harsh.

      

 

I said it before there is no problem with low carb it certainly works for the obese and close to diabetic people. It also works for some bodybuilders, my problem is when people advocate that their way is the only way. Diets should be personal tailored what is good for one is maybe not good (sustainable for an other).

 

Once crap food is removed its all about caloric restrictions, there is no other way around it and countless research has backed that up. IF, low carb, calorie counting they all restrict calories one way or the other. There won't be any rebound if you adhere to your diet and the study i posted in this topic shows that low carb rebounds as much as any other diet. Fact of the matter is that unfortunately most people rebound on whatever diet they are one. Its all about making lifestyle changes and sticking with them. You can't make lifestyle changes if what your doing does not suit you. Putting someone on low carb who loves carbs is certainly going to fail. (not talking here about people who are pre diabetic and stuff they NEED low carb).

 

I advocate tailored diets to people that take into account their preferences so they can stick to their diet easier and maintain it. I don't care what people do as long as it helps, my problem is with people who think there is only one way to go.

 

As for calorie counting, it works but only for certain people who are not too fuzzy about eating similar things often (makes it easy). I would not advocate calorie counting to many people because many are just not suited for it but the fact remains it gives you the most control as you really know what your eating instead of estimating and hoping for the best. 

 

As for not many medical doctors that are bodybuilders there are quite a few just a question of finding them. I avoid bodybuilders who sell stuff or offer 6 pack short cuts as the plague as that just does not work. But after countless years of training and reading I know who to believe and who not to believe. The bodybuilding forums that i visit are also full of people with knowledge I sometimes learn new stuff. But basically its this... remove processed foods and then cut calories.

 

Then there is the endless discussion about insulin resistance when to take meals how much ect that is a totally different discussion and real hard to find what works best. But almost all of the results come from restricting calories one way or the other, after that you can tweak what you want but it won't matter as much as just restricting what you eat. There are no magic combinations that after caloric restrictions get you to go much faster, those solutions help but pale in comparison to the first steps you take. 

[dontoearth]

31 minutes ago, robblok said:

IF, low carb, calorie counting they all restrict calories one way or the other. There won't be any rebound if you adhere to your diet and the study i posted in this topic shows that low carb rebounds as much as any other diet. Fact of the matter is that unfortunately most people rebound on whatever diet they are one.

      Let me break into religious zealotry for a minute.  One of the most promising things about the IF movement is the many research articles that prove it does not lower metabolic function.  As a result many people are hoping the final outcome is the end of the rebound weight gain.  The set point theory that anyone who diets lowers their metabolism and as a result when resuming normal calories for their weight starts to gain back the weight and a little more has been known since sometime in the 1950's.  And no one has been able to overcome this which is the reason long term weight loss is not possible for most and the long term studies bear that out.  The weight returns with a bonus!

       I think it is too early to tell but the scientific research done at the hospitals did show IF did not lower metabolic function and a few of the studies showed metabolic function to increase by as much as 20%.  No other diet plan has this unique property.

        Fasting has not been used in modern medicine and it looks like all the advocates Mosley, Varrady, Fung have all started into this research in the last few years.  Fung has a hospital residency so his lab work is very good.  Varrady is a medical researcher PH.d. at a big top notch university with an attached medical school.  Mosley is the BBC medical correspondent and a doctor so you have some good credentials here.  No bro science!  Varrady has a 3-year study underway financed by the National Science Foundation.  This might be the first long term study conducted under the most stringent controls.

         Ok other than that I would agree with your statement that IF is food restriction.  We are trying to move past that point and see what happens with rebound and weight gain and metabolism.  It will be interesting to see what happens in the next few years.  Long term studies are getting easier as patients are tracked now by computerized records. It is quite possible IF could be the biggest disappointment since lo-fat diets.  However, it took 50 years of lo-fat eating before the majority caught on that it didn't work.  With all the new research and computers fasting could get debunked in just 10 years or so if it is just another fad.

           My only conclusion so far is that IF worked for me.  Perhaps because of my fantascism  I hate cheat days they just cause hunger to return.  Hate THEM!  HATE THEM!  And I felt refeed days would be a big trade-off between having more fat burning hormone and having more hunger hormone.  I don't know how people on other diet plans feel about cheat day and refeed day.  I did see one IF advocate making it a top 3 rule never to do cheat day.  I didn't post the article because it seems useless to do so here.

            So I haven't found much new lately that seems to make sense.  I continue to refine my own program.  I did some OMAD protocols but didn't see any results from it.  Need to block out some time in mind and body for a few days of fasting.  Not right now.  Heading off to a nice vacation and won't spoil it even if I have some problems when I return.  I can't see cheat days but would not wreck a vacation or a major holiday with my program.  That would be too over the top.  Why a person would have to be a religious fanatic. 

            Hope your program is going well for you.  And I hope it gives long-term success.

[robblok]

24 minutes ago, dontoearth said:

      Let me break into religious zealotry for a minute.  One of the most promising things about the IF movement is the many research articles that prove it does not lower metabolic function.  As a result many people are hoping the final outcome is the end of the rebound weight gain.  The set point theory that anyone who diets lowers their metabolism and as a result when resuming normal calories for their weight starts to gain back the weight and a little more has been known since sometime in the 1950's.  And no one has been able to overcome this which is the reason long term weight loss is not possible for most and the long term studies bear that out.  The weight returns with a bonus!

       I think it is too early to tell but the scientific research done at the hospitals did show IF did not lower metabolic function and a few of the studies showed metabolic function to increase by as much as 20%.  No other diet plan has this unique property.

        Fasting has not been used in modern medicine and it looks like all the advocates Mosley, Varrady, Fung have all started into this research in the last few years.  Fung has a hospital residency so his lab work is very good.  Varrady is a medical researcher PH.d. at a big top notch university with an attached medical school.  Mosley is the BBC medical correspondent and a doctor so you have some good credentials here.  No bro science!  Varrady has a 3-year study underway financed by the National Science Foundation.  This might be the first long term study conducted under the most stringent controls.

         Ok other than that I would agree with your statement that IF is food restriction.  We are trying to move past that point and see what happens with rebound and weight gain and metabolism.  It will be interesting to see what happens in the next few years.  Long term studies are getting easier as patients are tracked now by computerized records. It is quite possible IF could be the biggest disappointment since lo-fat diets.  However, it took 50 years of lo-fat eating before the majority caught on that it didn't work.  With all the new research and computers fasting could get debunked in just 10 years or so if it is just another fad.

           My only conclusion so far is that IF worked for me.  Perhaps because of my fantascism  I hate cheat days they just cause hunger to return.  Hate THEM!  HATE THEM!  And I felt refeed days would be a big trade-off between having more fat burning hormone and having more hunger hormone.  I don't know how people on other diet plans feel about cheat day and refeed day.  I did see one IF advocate making it a top 3 rule never to do cheat day.  I didn't post the article because it seems useless to do so here.

            So I haven't found much new lately that seems to make sense.  I continue to refine my own program.  I did some OMAD protocols but didn't see any results from it.  Need to block out some time in mind and body for a few days of fasting.  Not right now.  Heading off to a nice vacation and won't spoil it even if I have some problems when I return.  I can't see cheat days but would not wreck a vacation or a major holiday with my program.  That would be too over the top.  Why a person would have to be a religious fanatic. 

            Hope your program is going well for you.  And I hope it gives long-term success.

My program gave me 7 years of success, so i can say it works. As for IF and metabolic function and body set point I have yet to see LONG term studies not a few months but years. Its a really interesting topic and I have researched it to see what ways there are however I have come up empty with real results.

 

If IF did not result in rebound why did the long term studies i posted not show it. The problem is cherry picking (everyone does it) only showing what is good for their strategy. I really do hope they find a way to change the body set point. Some people say it is just a matter of staying on your new target weight for a long time. 

 

One thing that I am going to try is reverse dieting (once i reach the level of leanness that I want) good results have been shown with that too (not sure if it was for everyone).  It might be a big disappointment for me but the theory looks sound too bad that there is often a difference between theory and practice.

 

I am happy IF works for you, yesterday I had an unintended IF day.. only ate lunch with a friend at a beef BBQ  no breakfast no diner nothing. When something works for you keep doing it only change it up when it stops working.

 

I also don't believe in only calories in and out otherwise i would not be taken certain supplements that help release fat and other supplements that stimulate certain receptors and promote blood flow through stubborn fat. But without a caloric deficit the fat released in the blood stream would not be burned. That is why I always say first create a caloric deficit and that will account for most of the weight loss, after that there are other things you can do but those things only account for a small extra burn. 

 

I am now back or even below my leanest figure ever, but i still think i need to lose an other 4 kg to be super lean like in those pictures. Its funny the more you lose the more you realize your original target might not be right. 

 

In the end I am not against low carb, IF, moderate carb or whatever as long as people adhere to it. Its just that people seem to think that their way is the only way and that is something i can't abide by having seen the studies that in the end the dropout rate for all is similar and the weight loss too. I think we have to face it that its a life style change and lifestyle changes only work if you keep to it. Most people fail because once they lost their weight they go back to their old habits.

 

 

[dontoearth]

6 minutes ago, robblok said:

If IF did not result in rebound why did the long term studies i posted not show it.

     I have not seen any 5 or 10 year studies with IF included in the data.  There just isn't any data for this yet.  Fung, Mosley and Varrady made these techniques available only a few years ago.  I think 2013 saw a number of books chronicling case studies.  As I said Varrady has a 3 year study coming out shortly sponsored by the National Science Foundation.  It will be interesting to see what she finds at a 3 year mark as most diet studies end in a few months and do follow up at 1 year.  Not much really to be learned that way.f  I am in my 3rd year of my own personal program and have found the 10% reduction in body mass to be a big limit for months and months each time.  I have done it twice!   There have been many professionals comment on this problem but most did not offer any solutions at all. 

      Varrady has said that the compliance rates are just not that good.  She does an every other day fast diet technique.  

      I can only say we will wait and see.  I am definitely curious and will continue to keep my own records which are very detailed with the measurements of body fat etc.  

       I almost wish I wasn't going to Europe with foodie friends.  Oh wait!  I been looking forward to this for 3 years.  LOL. ROFL.  So off to the land of chocolate croissants.  

[dontoearth]

      Another problem I wish someone would address is the strange weight loss pattern in which each additional weight loss period is less than the one before.  I see many people comment on that but don't think anyone has addressed it professionally.  It definitely discourages people.  

[robblok]

5 minutes ago, dontoearth said:

      Another problem I wish someone would address is the strange weight loss pattern in which each additional weight loss period is less than the one before.  I see many people comment on that but don't think anyone has addressed it professionally.  It definitely discourages people.  

I can explain that to you, you should read about the woosh effect described by Lyle Mc Donald

http://forums.lylemcdonald.com/index.php (there are also articles not just a forum)

 

According to him and others once fat cells are empty of the fats they seem to suck in water, your body is stressed from the weight loss and keeps the water there. He says eat some extra food / carbs and it will go away. I have read about this also on several bodybuilding forums from members.

 

I myself have exactly the same problem.... a stall and then all of a sudden a drop and my belly is a lot tighter as it was before. I am not saying take carbs (as your low carb) but just wait it out and the water will go away. 

 

I agree its one of the most frustrating things there is doing everything well but seeing no progress on the scales and your body. It has a real bad effect on motivation. I prefer a steady loss over what seems to be happening. 

 

For a while during my weight loss this period i was stuck... and then one day gone was the weight and gone was part of the belly.

[dontoearth]

6 minutes ago, robblok said:

I am not saying take carbs (as your low carb)

    I am not low carb.  I am against simple carbs.  I love vegetables and fruit and beans and boiled whole grain.  I don't want simple carbs like soda, cake, breakfast cereals, processed breads chips and crackers and cookies in my diet if possible.  I often have 2 or 3 veggies and a salad at lunch time.  I keep cold raw fruit in the frig.  I am not LOW CARB.

 

[robblok]

1 minute ago, dontoearth said:

    I am not low carb.  I am against simple carbs.  I love vegetables and fruit and beans and boiled whole grain.  I don't want simple carbs like soda, cake, breakfast cereals, processed breads chips and crackers and cookies in my diet if possible.  I often have 2 or 3 veggies and a salad at lunch time.  I keep cold raw fruit in the frig.  I am not LOW CARB.

 

Sorry, misunderstanding on my part my apologies. But do read what i post about fat cells holding water.  I certainly believe that is true. Because its simply impossible to overnight lose so much weight if it was just fat. Just does not make sense. I (ok others thought of it) believe this is the case.

[Justfine]

Oats are also processed food. I don't view them as a great food.

 

I found adding pineapple to shakes is good. It contains Bromelain which is a proteolytic enzyme that breaks down protein so your body absorbs more.

[Justfine]

14 minutes ago, dontoearth said:

    I am not low carb.  I am against simple carbs.  I love vegetables and fruit and beans and boiled whole grain.  I don't want simple carbs like soda, cake, breakfast cereals, processed breads chips and crackers and cookies in my diet if possible.  I often have 2 or 3 veggies and a salad at lunch time.  I keep cold raw fruit in the frig.  I am not LOW CARB.

 

I keep strawberries, pineapple and carrot pieces in the freezer. Buy in bulk fresh then wash and cut. Works out a cheap and easy way to get good nutrition each day.

[Justfine]

36 minutes ago, dontoearth said:

      Another problem I wish someone would address is the strange weight loss pattern in which each additional weight loss period is less than the one before.  I see many people comment on that but don't think anyone has addressed it professionally.  It definitely discourages people.  

My weight loss is fairly steady each week. Usually around 0.5 to 0.8kgs. 

[robblok]

7 minutes ago, Justfine said:

Oats are also processed food. I don't view them as a great food.

 

I found adding pineapple to shakes is good. It contains Bromelain which is a proteolytic enzyme that breaks down protein so your body absorbs more.

It kinda depends what kind of oats your talking about.. the ones that are cut and made fine for quick cooking certainly are not. The normal ones that are not processed much are not processed and great food and a great source of fiber.

[Justfine]

Just now, robblok said:

It kinda depends what kind of oats your talking about.. the ones that are cut and made fine for quick cooking certainly are not. The normal ones that are not processed much are not processed and great food and a great source of fiber.

Whatever works. They don't taste like food to me.

[robblok]

Just now, Justfine said:

Whatever works. They don't taste like food to me.

That is the whole point, what works for one does not work for an other... for me they fill me up quite well. You seem to be doing fine on your food program, and I am doing fine on mine. Just have to find out what is good for you.

[Justfine]

https://www.livestrong.com/article/1005007-4-surprising-benefits-eating-night/

 

 

[Justfine]

https://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/ask-the-macro-manager-red-meat.html

[dontoearth]

3 hours ago, robblok said:

It kinda depends what kind of oats your talking about.. the ones that are cut and made fine for quick cooking certainly are not. The normal ones that are not processed much are not processed and great food and a great source of fiber.

    The ones that are not processed are the oat grain kernel itself sometimes you can find that in stores and sometimes it is labeled oat groats.  And then the steel cut which have only a one process prep.  The meal ..has way too many processes in it to be a complex carb.  Most rolled oats are precooked, crushed, sometimes chopped and toasted.  Got that data from Rutgers Univ. and have posted it twice.  So the glycemic load on oatmeal is too high for me.  It causes super hunger spikes and doesn't last long in my gut.  

      I have gone off of most grain products because they digest too fast in my body.  They taste good and I enjoy them but I am learning to listen to my body beyond the taste bud phase and into the useful nutrition phase.

[robblok]

8 minutes ago, dontoearth said:

    The ones that are not processed are the oat grain kernel itself sometimes you can find that in stores and sometimes it is labeled oat groats.  And then the steel cut which have only a one process prep.  The meal ..has way too many processes in it to be a complex carb.  Most rolled oats are precooked, crushed, sometimes chopped and toasted.  Got that data from Rutgers Univ. and have posted it twice.  So the glycemic load on oatmeal is too high for me.  It causes super hunger spikes and doesn't last long in my gut.  

      I have gone off of most grain products because they digest too fast in my body.  They taste good and I enjoy them but I am learning to listen to my body beyond the taste bud phase and into the useful nutrition phase.

I have done blood tests after oats, the ones I eat dont affect me much (you know diabetic tests you can buy at a pharmacy) if you want to slow the process down even more use cinnamon. 

 

But the funny thing is that 2 people can have totally different responses to the same foods (only way to know for sure is blood tests like the one i described prick in the finger and on a testing paper). I did that way back in 2011 when i had a lot of fat to lose. 

[dontoearth]

22 minutes ago, robblok said:

I have done blood tests after oats, the ones I eat dont affect me much (you know diabetic tests you can buy at a pharmacy) if you want to slow the process down even more use cinnamon. 

 

But the funny thing is that 2 people can have totally different responses to the same foods (only way to know for sure is blood tests like the one i described prick in the finger and on a testing paper). I did that way back in 2011 when i had a lot of fat to lose. 

      Indeed true.  My dad woofed down endless sweets and candies and snack food and never had a single high blood sugar reading at all.  

       My blood sugar is fine but I have eliminated lots of foods based on whether or not I find the food driving hunger!  It would seem logical that the blood test should tell me but what would I do if the blood test said everything was fine but I was jonsing like a drug addict for sweets after eating a food?  I would still eliminate it!

 

[robblok]

59 minutes ago, dontoearth said:

      Indeed true.  My dad woofed down endless sweets and candies and snack food and never had a single high blood sugar reading at all.  

       My blood sugar is fine but I have eliminated lots of foods based on whether or not I find the food driving hunger!  It would seem logical that the blood test should tell me but what would I do if the blood test said everything was fine but I was jonsing like a drug addict for sweets after eating a food?  I would still eliminate it!

 

Sure I would remove it too on how full food would make me feel. For me oats is a food that fills me up good and gives me a consistent energy boost. 

 

 

[dontoearth]

1 minute ago, robblok said:

Sure I would remove it too on how full food would make me feel. For me oats is a food that fills me up good and gives me a consistent energy boost. 

 

 

     That is good for you.  I am glad.  They don't work at all for me.  We should encourage each person to carefully listen to their body or do a good job of monitoring themselves with medical test to determine what works and what doesn't work.

      I have a long list of simple carbs I avoid!  It just works best for me.  

      My program is a real hybrid of several different techniques.  I don't think it would appeal to that too many people because it has so many moving parts as they say!

[robblok]

29 minutes ago, dontoearth said:

     That is good for you.  I am glad.  They don't work at all for me.  We should encourage each person to carefully listen to their body or do a good job of monitoring themselves with medical test to determine what works and what doesn't work.

      I have a long list of simple carbs I avoid!  It just works best for me.  

      My program is a real hybrid of several different techniques.  I don't think it would appeal to that too many people because it has so many moving parts as they say!

Its not just the oats that keep me full, i take a casein+whey protein shake before I eat the oats (about 1 hour after I did my fasted farmers walk in the morning). 

 

I think we have come to an understanding, we should all just find out what works for us and not be to rigid.  Currently I am taking loads of protein shakes, that is not normal for me but as I am low in calories I like to keep the protein high. So far I have not lost any strength on my big lifts i might have gaine a bit even. 

 

Did lose around 8 kg since beginning of march. Now I am back at how I normally was quite lean but not as lean as I want to be. I really (even if for a short time) want to be as lean as some of those fitness models. I might have to lose 5 kg more or even more not sure  (if possible). Its just a goal I have set for myself, well defined lower abs and obliques (you know the love handles). I will probably not make it but its at least a challenge.

[dontoearth]

      One other thought anyone dieting.    That if you are is experiencing uncontrollable hunger you should make a list of the previous meal and see if any of those foods are driving the hunger!  It may take a few days to identify the culprit but some patterns will appear.

        I did find foods that lasted a long time in my body and did not make me hungry even at the next meal.  The two best were eggs and cheese.  No toast!  No crackers!   Eggs lasted from early morning to around 3 pm. some days.  Cheese just killed my hunger at supper.  It just ended.  I would stop in the middle of my plate.

[Justfine]

Eggs are great. Otherwise almonds are pretty good for a snack. Mushrooms good too.

 

 

 

 

[Justfine]

https://www.menshealth.com/fitness/a19522772/split-cardio-and-weights-to-reduce-belly-fat/