Why Lady-boys help drive change to our conformist cultures

By Dan Cheeseman

 

 

I sat in my local sauna the other evening with my wife and a couple walked in, it was an aging expat and his lady-boy partner. Being in Thailand I didn’t give it much thought. Later on the lady-boy got up and went to the ladies changing rooms, and at that moment it got me thinking again on the subject of the third gender and the role they play in Thai culture.

 

When does a man become a woman?

Let’s not forget a lady-boy is a guy or as my friend puts it ‘a chick with a dick’. This guy, who for whatever reason, has decided to become a woman and although his id will say he is male in his eyes he is a female. Yet he can use the female changing rooms and shower with what still is the opposite sex. OK, he is attracted to guys – or at least I think how it works – but he still gets to shower and watch females get changed. It is a very grey line as if I donned a female wig and tried the same stunt I would get booted out the changing room and probably even arrested.

 

But as I watched him/her go to the changing room it got me thinking even more about the role of the lady-boy. Lady-boys quite rightly are accepted in Thailand, it is normal. In other countries this would not be the case and they would not be accepted, mocked and probably in some middle eastern countries put under lock and key at best. What a crazy and polarised world we live in.

 

Full story: https://danaboutthailand.com/2018/05/18/why-lady-boys-help-drive-change-our-conformist-culture/

 

DAN ABOUT THAILAND

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So many people think wayyyyy too much about this.  It just is.  Accept it and move on.  The less you analyze it the easier it is to accept.  If you accept it, it becomes a non-issue.  If it's a non-issue, then all is right in the world and we can all get along while accepting that we're not all the same. 

Edited May 20, 20188 yr by connda

Jesus, how does he come up with this shit?

Calm down. Let it be. Move on. I  was here for my first time in 1972. Ladyboys were here. Ladyboys will be here in 3060.

8 hours ago, themerg said:

Calm down. Let it be. Move on. I  was here for my first time in 1972. Ladyboys were here. Ladyboys will be here in 3060.

There is no "third gender". Ladyboys, whether or not they have had surgery to make them appear more feminine, are biological males and always will be male.

 

The fact that some men find them attractive is hardly surprising. Research shows many - possibly even a majority - most  "straight" men will have a sexual experience with another male at some time in their lives.

 

If Ladyboys were genuinely female, one suspects they would be far less alluring to many falangs!

 

So, I take my lady..her son of 13 and a truckload of his mates to a restaurant way the f%^k up north for burgers. In walks a farang with a katang how ever the f&*k you're supposed to spell it, you get the meaning. Super big everything. Of course the farang has to be German, I mean he was a German. I mean the partner was way over the top. The lads were just cracking jokes left and right. We have lady boys all over the place but this shit was just weird.

I "get to ... watch women get changed" in locker rooms, too.  I'm also attracted to males.  So what?  Is that a big deal, too?  Does Mr. Cheeseman stare at other men in the locker room despite not being attracted to men (I assume from his writing that he's exclusively heterosexual)?  If not, then why would ladyboys want to look at women?  (Besides, from what I can tell, a fair number of women-- and I daresay the majority in Thailand, judging from my gym experience-- hide in the toilet stalls to change anyway.)  For that matter, if we're going to be homophobic about this, would Mr. Cheeseman prefer the ladyboys join him in the men's locker room, considering that he apparently thinks they're going to be eyeing everyone else in the locker room with them?

 

What was the point of this, again?  "Ladyboys are cool.  BUT THEY'RE REALLY MEN OMG!  But that's okay.  BUT THEY GO IN WOMEN'S LOCKER ROOMS!  But they're great and I have no problem with them, really."

Must be wonderful, being Cheeselets, seeing and writing the same stuff over and over again, as if for the first time. Like having a lobotomy.

I likes me ladies....real ladies.....Is that wrong??

4 hours ago, HooHaa said:

Jesus, how does he come up with this shit?

 

 

Stupidity?

 

 

Love it all. The diversity of life.

I've often thought lady boys aren't really accepted here, at least not to the extent Western foreigners like to pretend they are, because that's easier, safer, and also conforms with the hocus pocus about gentle Thais, thanks to the omnipresent guiding light of Buddhism. 

 

Otherwise, I feel Thai at large are rather narrow minded, and their apparent acceptance about lady boys may be a factor of culture insomuch as they prefer to avoid unnecessary conflict. 

 

Lady boys seem to be tucked in a corner.  They, and perhaps Toms, are type cast and often the brunt of jokes.  I have a feeling Thais aren't laughing with them, rather at them, and the spectacle they represent.

 

I wouldn't advise it but if ever in doubt about the true nature of a lady boy, punch her in the face.  She'll go from sexy lady to Man in T-minus .5 seconds, and probably strangle you with her bra and gouge your eyes out with her high heels.

Edited May 20, 20188 yr by 55Jay

5 hours ago, connda said:

So many people think wayyyyy too much about this.  It just is.  Accept it and move on.  The less you analyze it the easier it is to accept.  If you accept it, it becomes a non-issue.  If it's a non-issue, then all is right in the world and we can all get along while accepting that we're not all the same. 

In your honest opinion.

As for me, I like conformist cultures.

5 hours ago, connda said:

So many people think wayyyyy too much about this.  It just is.  Accept it and move on.  The less you analyze it the easier it is to accept.  If you accept it, it becomes a non-issue.  If it's a non-issue, then all is right in the world and we can all get along while accepting that we're not all the same.

Thank you connda , spot on.  Can't be bothered to go through the next umptine pages.

I think the second from the left is a girl , they sneek in everywhere.

6 hours ago, HooHaa said:

Jesus, how does he come up with this shit?

Dan about Thailand is obsessed with lbs it seems.

 

Surely there are some more interesting surveys??

 

No?

 

 

Edited May 20, 20188 yr by Justfine

8 hours ago, connda said:

So many people think wayyyyy too much about this.  It just is.  Accept it and move on.  The less you analyze it the easier it is to accept.  If you accept it, it becomes a non-issue.  If it's a non-issue, then all is right in the world and we can all get along while accepting that we're not all the same. 

I would really like to accept what you wrote (I mean that) but I just can't. Nobody can rise above their level of consciousness so I forgive myself.

1 hour ago, toofarnorth said:

I think the second from the left is a girl , they sneek in everywhere.

damn women.

7 hours ago, Krataiboy said:

There is no "third gender". Ladyboys, whether or not they have had surgery to make them appear more feminine, are biological males and always will be male.

 

 

Of course there is no actual "third gender", but it's an apt term as they are not treated like men, and not treated like women, they are treated differently, as though they are a third gender.

 

6 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

So, I take my lady..her son of 13 and a truckload of his mates to a restaurant way the f%^k up north for burgers. In walks a farang with a katang how ever the f&*k you're supposed to spell it, you get the meaning. Super big everything. Of course the farang has to be German, I mean he was a German. I mean the partner was way over the top. The lads were just cracking jokes left and right. We have lady boys all over the place but this shit was just weird.

I'm just wondering if you could rephrase that? As I am only capable of understanding sense. 

Just admit that ur fixated with Ladyboys.

Why such a fuss...if ladyboys feel good in their bodies to be as such, let them be happy....and if guys (and quite a few gals also, believe me), enjoy getting their weiners serviced by lady boys, why all the fuss ? As long as people practice safe sex patterns and nobody forces anybody to it...let them have their fun...what's the problem ?

18 hours ago, HooHaa said:

Jesus, how does he come up with this shit?

Research apparently......

14 hours ago, bananafish said:

Of course there is no actual "third gender", but it's an apt term as they are not treated like men, and not treated like women, they are treated differently, as though they are a third gender.

 

I repeat, there is no third gender - let alone the seventy-odd allegedly "non-binary" genders which trans activists have come up with.  The new buzz phrase "gender fluidity" covers variations from the norm which have always been part of the binary spectrum of human sexuality.

 

Transexuals (or transgender men and women, as trans activists would prefer us to call them) have existed throughout history. Their desire to become the opposite of their natal gender is driven by a long-recognised psychological condition traditionally known as gender identity disorder, and more recently gender dysphoria. 

 

In essence, the condition is not dissimilar to body dysmorphia, where an individual finds one of their physical features unbearably repulsive, or anorexia nervosa, where a person looks in a mirror and, now matter how slim they may be, sees a fat person.

 

Treatments for gender dysphoria range from psychiatric help to medical and surgical intervention. These procedures can help ameliorate the distressing symptoms of people who feel they were born with "the wrong brain in the wrong body". But no amount of hormone treatment or cosmetic surgery can turn a biological man into a woman or vice versa. 

 

I suppose one could insist on defining transgender individuals as a third gender, but really this would simply be playing with words and ignoring the wealth of scienitific evidence behind the classification homo sapiens as a binary species.

 

 

 

 

 

 

One thing you can count on from people try to scrape by as a "internet celebrity", they will always keep TV filled with brilliant observations that the rest of us learned, understood and file away years ago.    Why is it people right off the boat think they are the only ones to observe things and Thailand and insist on "educating" the rest of us?

On 5/20/2018 at 7:37 PM, 55Jay said:

I've often thought lady boys aren't really accepted here, at least not to the extent Western foreigners like to pretend they are, because that's easier, safer, and also conforms with the hocus pocus about gentle Thais, thanks to the omnipresent guiding light of Buddhism. 

 

Otherwise, I feel Thai at large are rather narrow minded, and their apparent acceptance about lady boys may be a factor of culture insomuch as they prefer to avoid unnecessary conflict. 

 

Lady boys seem to be tucked in a corner.  They, and perhaps Toms, are type cast and often the brunt of jokes.  I have a feeling Thais aren't laughing with them, rather at them, and the spectacle they represent.

 

I wouldn't advise it but if ever in doubt about the true nature of a lady boy, punch her in the face.  She'll go from sexy lady to Man in T-minus .5 seconds, and probably strangle you with her bra and gouge your eyes out with her high heels.

Ladyboys are totally accepted. Realise that there are ladyboys all over Thailand (and indeed SE Asia generally)...not exclusively in the tourist traps.

They are accepted as part of the way of life in the rural areas. We, the wife and I , have a couple of friends who are ladyboys. Nice people too.

11 minutes ago, tryasimight said:

Ladyboys are totally accepted. Realise that there are ladyboys all over Thailand (and indeed SE Asia generally)...not exclusively in the tourist traps.

They are accepted as part of the way of life in the rural areas. We, the wife and I , have a couple of friends who are ladyboys. Nice people too.

Totally is a rather broad term.  Acceptance could just as easily be replaced with resignation. I just don't think it's that simple, or universal. 

 

I knew a lady boy upcountry a year or so ago.  Nice bloke but strange, had some personality/behavior issues, possibly exacerbated by drug use.   30 something years old but looked like death warmed over most of the time.  He's dead now.   His Thai family was evasive.  Unspecified cancer of some kind but we all felt it was something else and, perhaps, they wanted to avoid village gossip and stigma.

5 minutes ago, 55Jay said:

Totally is a rather broad term.  Acceptance could just as easily be replaced with resignation. I just don't think it's that simple, or universal. 

 

I knew a lady boy upcountry a year or so ago.  Nice bloke but strange, had some personality/behavior issues, possibly exacerbated by drug use.   30 something years old but looked like death warmed over most of the time.  He's dead now.   His Thai family was evasive.  Unspecified cancer of some kind but we all felt it was something else and, perhaps, they wanted to avoid village gossip and stigma.

Hard for a bloke to dress up as a woman, take female hormones and be normal don't you think? 

10 minutes ago, 55Jay said:

Totally is a rather broad term.  Acceptance could just as easily be replaced with resignation. I just don't think it's that simple, or universal. 

 

I knew a lady boy upcountry a year or so ago.  Nice bloke but strange, had some personality/behavior issues, possibly exacerbated by drug use.   30 something years old but looked like death warmed over most of the time.  He's dead now.   His Thai family was evasive.  Unspecified cancer of some kind but we all felt it was something else and, perhaps, they wanted to avoid village gossip and stigma.

Almost certainly HIV then AIDs....never ever mentioned by the family but everyone else knows.

The wife has lost ladyboy friends the same way, unsurprisingly.

Edited May 22, 20188 yr by tryasimight

6 minutes ago, Justfine said:

Hard for a bloke to dress up as a woman, take female hormones and be normal don't you think? 

The weird part about it is the person doesn't see themselves as a man but rather a woman in a mans body.

I know a bloke in Australia (and he is butt ugly) trapped in the same way. A few years ago he had the chop, Nothing remotely feminine about him physically.....emotionally he is a woman. I feel so sorry for the confusion him and others must feel.

He did describe his aftermath of the operation as 'looking like a lamb with its throat cut" so you can see we aren't talking about a cuddly feely type of person.

It must be terrible being born in the wrong body.