UK threatens to demand money from EU in Brexit feud over European GPS

[webfact]

UK threatens to demand money from EU in Brexit feud over European GPS

By Andrew MacAskill and Elizabeth Piper

 

FILE PHOTO: The Russian Soyuz VS01 rocket, carrying the first two satellites of Europe's Galileo navigation system, blasts off from its launchpad at the Guiana Space Center in Sinnamary, French Guiana, October 21, 2011. REUTERS/Benoit Tessier/File Photo

 

LONDON (Reuters) - Britain told the European Union on Thursday it will demand the repayment of up to 1 billion pounds ($1.34 billion) if the bloc restricts its access to the Galileo satellite navigation system, Europe's version of GPS.

 

A senior EU official quickly dismissed the threat, saying there was no basis to any such demands. The person said the bloc was keen to go on working with Britain on Galileo after Brexit but under new rules, including those preventing third countries obtaining access to critical security information for the EU.

 

A row over Galileo has become the latest flashpoint in Brexit negotiations after London accused the EU of shutting British businesses out of the project before Britain's exit in a year's time. The EU has said it is honouring the existing laws.

 

But, once Britain leaves the bloc, the executive European Commission says London can no longer be trusted with sensitive data providing a secure back-up for the new satellite system, even though it was heavily involved in its development.

 

Britain for the first time formally set out its conditions for participating in the Galileo project after it leaves the EU on Thursday, making unrestricted access a condition for future a broader security collaboration.

 

The Brexit ministry published a paper raising the prospect of the government recovering its investment. It said that without British help the project would take three years longer and cost an extra 1 billion euros to complete.

 

Britain wants an "urgent resolution" to keep open "the possibility of future UK participation in Galileo," the document said. "Should the UK's future access be restricted, the UK's past contribution to the financing of space assets should be discussed."

 

Millions of consumer devices globally use the global positioning system (GPS) developed and controlled by the United States. Europe has been building on its own rival version for 15 years, due for completion by 2020.

 

The EU has said Britain will be able to continue to use Galileo's open signal, but that Britain's military could be denied access to the encrypted version when the satellite becomes operational. Britain is demanding unrestricted security and industrial access to secure elements of the project.

 

The government is also demanding that Brussels reopen tenders to British companies for the most secure work on the project and revise requirements that all related work be done from EU member states.

 

But the senior EU official, involved in Brexit talks that the Commission is carrying out on behalf of the remaining 27 member states in the bloc, dismissed Britain's demands as "fantasy" thinking and "quite a big ask" of the EU.

 

"The United Kingdom would like to transform Galileo from an EU programme to a joint EU-UK programme," the person said, stressing that would not fly as it was Britain's decision to leave the bloc and London should hence accept consequences.

 

The person said that, while the EU was ready to keep Britain close to Galileo after Brexit, London's demands of continued unrestricted access would in practice mean that, as a third country, it would in the future have the ability to turn the signal off for the whole bloc, or have access to sensitive information that not all members of the bloc even get.

 

In heavy and cutting criticism of Britain's record so far in the negotiations, the person said the EU was not shutting London out of Galileo but drew clear limits of what sort of cooperation was possible after Brexit materialises.

 

London, on the other hand, has signalled its determination to press ahead with the development of its own satellite navigation system if the EU continues to insist that it will be barred from the secure elements of the project.

 

Experts say a rival British satellite navigation system could cost about 3 billion pounds and Britain has said its exclusion from Galileo would undermine talks on a proposed future security partnership with the EU.

 

"Future UK participation in Galileo is a strategic choice which will have a permanent effect on our future defence and defence industrial collaboration," the British government said.

 

The row is further souring Brexit negotiations ahead of the next meeting of all EU leaders due in a month.

 

While the plan had been to mark another milestone in the unprecedented divorce talks that are aimed at agreeing this autumn a new cooperation scheme for the EU and Britain after Brexit, the bloc has been sounding alarm that talks were going slowly and often deriding London's approach is completely unrealistic. [L5N1SV7BR]

 

(Additional reporting by Gabriela Baczynska in Brussels, Editing by Larry King and Peter Graff)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2018-05-25

[Chomper Higgot]

This was all going to be a walk in the park.

[The Renegade]

Stop arguing with the Brussels clowns.

 

Walk away and no £40 billion. WTO rules from March 2019

[Chomper Higgot]

6 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

Stop arguing with the Brussels clowns.

 

Walk away and no £40 billion. WTO rules from March 2019

I’ll grant you this, your delusion is persistent.

 

Here’s a clue:

 

What do you think the UK wants, access to this GPS program or their money back?

 

Think about that before answering.

[geriatrickid]

Slimey scum in Brussels trying to shake down the UK.

Again the Belgians and Germans are implicated, along with some of the other banana quality insignificant Euro city states.  Credit to France, Spain, Sweden, the Netherlands, and the Baltic states for not agreeing with the bullies and for supporting the UK. 

Germany is taking a gamble that the UK is going to be isolated. It won't be. Canada and the USA are salivating at the prospect of some trade and financial deals that exclude the EU participation and its meddlesome  rules and regulations. Some Europeans are smart enough to see what is going to happen. 
 

[Chomper Higgot]

1 minute ago, geriatrickid said:

Slimey scum in Brussels trying to shake down the UK.

Again the Belgians and Germans are implicated, along with some of the other banana quality insignificant Euro city states.  Credit to France, Spain, Sweden, the Netherlands, and the Baltic states for not agreeing with the bullies and for supporting the UK. 

Germany is taking a gamble that the UK is going to be isolated. It won't be. Canada and the USA are salivating at the prospect of some trade and financial deals that exclude the EU participation and its meddlesome  rules and regulations. Some Europeans are smart enough to see what is going to happen. 
 

I’ll grant you the US are salivating over the prospect of asset stripping an isolated and exposed UK.

 

 

[The Renegade]

31 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I’ll grant you this, your delusion is persistent.

 

Here’s a clue:

 

What do you think the UK wants, access to this GPS program or their money back?

 

Think about that before answering.

In the 5 seconds that it took me to think.

 

Money back as it is not even up and running and will not be without the UK's software.

 

[Chomper Higgot]

13 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

In the 5 seconds that it took me to think.

 

Money back as it is not even up and running and will not be without the UK's software.

 

What because nobody else can write software.

 

You should have spent more than 5 seconds on this.

[terryw]

What the article fails to include is that the UK is responsible for the encryption codes. No codes means a massive delay for the Europeans completing the project.

[The Renegade]

Just now, terryw said:

What the article fails to include is that the UK is responsible for the encryption codes. No codes means a massive delay for the Europeans completing the project.

Nah, Champer Higgins has it all sewn up.?

 

[Chomper Higgot]

26 minutes ago, terryw said:

What the article fails to include is that the UK is responsible for the encryption codes. No codes means a massive delay for the Europeans completing the project.

Terry, you don’t understand contracts do you.

 

The software development and if you like encryption codes are a package of work within a contract. 

 

The package of work is being executed by a contractor, the people paying the contract will get the package when it’s completed.

 

These things do not belong to the British government.

 

And for good measure, if the UK government was so reckless ax to interfere in a commercial contract for political reasons the repercussions for business and trade in the UK would be dire.

 

This is not a game of footy in which you take your ball home because you are losing.

[dick dasterdly]

Just now, Chomper Higgot said:

Terry, you don’t understand contracts do you.

 

The software development and if you like encryption codes are a package of work within a contract. 

 

The package of work is being executed by a contractor, the people paying the contract will get the package when it’s completed.

 

These things do not belong to the British government.

 

And for good measure, if the UK government was so reckless ax to interfere in a commercial contract for political reasons the repercussions for business and trade in the UK would be dire.

 

This is not a game of footy in which you take your ball home because you are losing.

A very good point.

[Chomper Higgot]

50 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

Nah, Champer Higgins has it all sewn up.?

 

Well someone has to engage with reality.

[JAG]

2 hours ago, The Renegade said:

Stop arguing with the Brussels clowns.

 

Walk away and no £40 billion. WTO rules from March 2019

I have to say, I'm rather coming round to that conclusion. It does seem that whatever negotiations are attempted, the (anonymous) officials who seem to speak for the EU are determined to punish the UK.

 

It is almost a given that they speak neither for the individual governments within the EU nor for European industry. But it is becoming increasingly clear that whatever we do or say, any deal or agreement will be entirely on their terms, and their terms seem to be first and foremost to do as much damage to the United Kingdom, and it's economy, as possible.

 

Well sod 'em. We will have to stand on our own. We spent our blood and treasure to free much of Europe from an evil tyranny within living memory, we then spent the next 45 years shouldering a grossly disproportionate share of the burden of defending them from another such threat, whilst they rebuilt their economies and infrastructure. Perhaps we should walk away.

[Chomper Higgot]

1 minute ago, JAG said:

I have to say, I'm rather coming round to that conclusion. It does seem that whatever negotiations are attempted, the (anonymous) officials who seem to speak for the EU are determined to punish the UK.

 

It is almost a given that they speak neither for the individual governments within the EU nor for European industry. But it is becoming increasingly clear that whatever we do or say, any deal or agreement will be entirely on their terms, and their terms seem to be first and foremost to do as much damage to the United Kingdom, and it's economy, as possible.

 

Well sod 'em. We will have to stand on our own. We spent our blood and treasure to free much of Europe from an evil tyranny within living memory, we then spent the next 45 years shouldering a grossly disproportionate share of the burden of defending them from another such threat, whilst they rebuilt their economies and infrastructure. Perhaps we should walk away.

That’s the Boy’s Own’ version.

 

What you miss is the bare faced lies told by the British Government wrt the negotiations.

 

 

[JAG]

3 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

That’s the Boy’s Own’ version.

 

What you miss is the bare faced lies told by the British Government wrt the negotiations.

 

 

Which are?

[Chomper Higgot]

8 minutes ago, JAG said:

Which are?

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/foreign-affairs/brexit/news/91242/david-davis-accused-blatant-lying-and-contempt-parliament

 

Plus:

 

Promises to the British People of redlines that will never be crossed - Now turned green. (Fishing comunities have taken note).

 

Edited May 25, 2018 by Chomper Higgot

[OJAS]

14 minutes ago, JAG said:

It does seem that whatever negotiations are attempted, the (anonymous) officials who seem to speak for the EU are determined to punish the UK.

And not just the anonymous ones either - Fuehrers Juncker and Tusk have equally made clear their determination to this end on several occasions.

[sawadee1947]

They should have thought twice before their decision to leave EU. Sobbering now is pathetic 

[JAG]

8 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/foreign-affairs/brexit/news/91242/david-davis-accused-blatant-lying-and-contempt-parliament

 

Plus:

 

Promises to the British People of redlines that will never be crossed - Now turned green. (Fishing comunities have taken note).

 

Your link concerns allegations made within the UK political 'theatre" by opposition MPs.

 

I also fail to see the relevance of the government's stance on fishing to the central point, which is the apparent determination of the Brussels establishment to break the UK, for having the temerity to challenge it's hegemony. If that, to you, is "the Boys Own version", so be it.

[dick dasterdly]

6 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/foreign-affairs/brexit/news/91242/david-davis-accused-blatant-lying-and-contempt-parliament

 

Plus:

 

Promises to the British People of redlines that will never be crossed - Now turned green. (Fishing comunities have taken note).

 

Exactly.  It seems fairly obvious that the uk govt. is attempting a 'leave in name only' deal.

 

Which is why, like JAG and The Renegade , I'm also turning towards leave under WTO rules, no payment to the eu.

 

Back on topic, I suspect that the eu would hate the brits. not sharing their security intelligence, so threatening to not allow the uk security info. from the 'gps' system seems a bit pointless - other than as another scare tactic.

[Basil B]

3 hours ago, The Renegade said:

Stop arguing with the Brussels clowns.

 

Walk away and no £40 billion. WTO rules from March 2019

That is the fall back option, but no one will benefit.

 

What is being negotiated is not just trade but ours and the EU's security.

[sungod]

2 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

 

This is not a game of footy in which you take your ball home because you are losing.

Couldn't agree more, ironic though you have summed very well up the attitude of those whom lost in a perfectly democratic referendum.

 All sides should be working together for a successful exit, those who continue to sabotage and sow seeds of doom and gloom are playing into Brussel's hands. Should be ashamed.

[ballpoint]

A preview of the UK edition of the European GPS has been released:

[Baerboxer]

5 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

What because nobody else can write software.

 

You should have spent more than 5 seconds on this.

 

5 seconds is probably the span of concentration!

[tomacht8]

6 hours ago, The Renegade said:

Stop arguing with the Brussels clowns. 

Yes, it is so painful for the well-planned, intelligent, well-thought-out, well-informed, very well organized,

well prepared and united uk negotiation team.

 

This concentrated negotiation competence is indeed frightening.

[citybiker]

I see the regular usual UK anti-Brexit rant's ceases to end.

Rather like Brussels issuing warnings & threats reference 'fantasy Brexit' focus.

I do like Ollie Robbins social media response, calm and professional heads from the UK cross party Brexit team, unlike Brussels.

Brussels, didn't you get the memo....nobody likes a bully, politcal or otherwise & besides please refrain from acting like a gold digging split ex-wife and get a <deleted> grip, is it any wonder why many are relieved were leaving as the EU are simplying behaving childish.

Europe, have a nice day ;-)

Sent from my SM-T555 using Tapatalk

[JAG]

21 minutes ago, tomacht8 said:

Yes, it is so painful for the well-planned, intelligent, well-thought-out, well-informed, very well organized,

well prepared and united uk negotiation team.

 

This concentrated negotiation competence is indeed frightening.

Whilst I tend to agree that this governments performance in both setting out their position and the subsequent negotiations has been less than stellar, I am not sure that will make the slightest difference. It is becoming increasingly obvious that the Brussels administration is determined to do the utmost damage to the UK both economically and possibly politically. I don't think this is a position necessarily shared by all EU governments, but they also seem to be irrelevant. Any eventual settlement will be on terms dictated by them (Brussels), which seem to be effectively non-negotiable. Were we to change our mind, as many suggest we should, I suspect that the terms under which such a change would be accepted will be as damaging. Pragmatically, I think that we should accept what now is beginning to look as inevitable, and be prepared to walk away. The central plank of the argument to leave was to regain our national sovereignty. I always suspected that was going to be expensive, and I think it will be. I also happen think that we should be prepared to pay that price.

Edited May 25, 2018 by JAG

[citybiker]

Whilst I tend to agree that this governments performance in both setting out their position and the subsequent negotiations has been less than stellar, I am not sure that will make the slightest difference. It is becoming increasingly obvious that the Brussels administration is determined to do the utmost damage to the UK both economically and possibly politically. I don't think this is a position necessarily shared by all EU governments, but they also seem to be irrelevant. Any eventual settlement will be on terms dictated by them (Brussels), which seem to be effectively non-negotiable. Were we to change our mind, as many suggest we should, I suspect that the terms under which such a change would be accepted will be as damaging. Pragmatically, I think that we should accept what now is beginning to look as inevitable, and be prepared to walk away. The central plank of the argument to leave was to regain our national sovereignty. I always suspected that was going to be expensive, and I think it will be. I also happen think that we should be prepared to pay that price.

Although I mostly agree with your post, unfortunately and the facts remain Labour & the CBI etc will simply refuse to vote to walk away in a no deal, controversially Brussels know their tactical ally is Labour as JC is soft, feeble and a staunch Europhile.

October/November will be a testing time as proposals have to be submitted to allow a 6 month consultation review before being voting by all 27. Bearing in mind Brussels is history of late deals and substandard negotiations, and Brexit won't be any different.

Sent from my SM-T555 using Tapatalk

[gamini]

5 hours ago, JAG said:

I have to say, I'm rather coming round to that conclusion. It does seem that whatever negotiations are attempted, the (anonymous) officials who seem to speak for the EU are determined to punish the UK.

 

It is almost a given that they speak neither for the individual governments within the EU nor for European industry. But it is becoming increasingly clear that whatever we do or say, any deal or agreement will be entirely on their terms, and their terms seem to be first and foremost to do as much damage to the United Kingdom, and it's economy, as possible.

 

Well sod 'em. We will have to stand on our own. We spent our blood and treasure to free much of Europe from an evil tyranny within living memory, we then spent the next 45 years shouldering a grossly disproportionate share of the burden of defending them from another such threat, whilst they rebuilt their economies and infrastructure. Perhaps we should walk away.

Part true, the UK did help free Europe from an Evil tyranny, only to turn more than half of it over to a worse one, Russia.