13 hours ago, Bluespunk said:

Wrong.

 

The assessments I am talking about are for students of all abilities. They are equally valid for high achieving students, core learners and those in need of support. 

 

It is vital that high achievers are given feedback that allows them to make the progress they are capable of. Ongoing assessment does that. 

 

I do not guide children into careers, I enable them to achieve and make progress, assessment is the way to do that. 

 

There is a high emphasis on differentiation in teaching and that includes catering to the needs of gifted and talented children. Assessment is essential for this to happen. 

 

Tests do not help with this. 

I'm just a mother of a gifted child that has just reached high school. So I  talk of his academic experiences. He went to project based learning school. I have 2 inch folders of his assessments for 6 years. In the end they go in the bin and are totally irrelevant to his academic life. When making the move to high school, they are just not interested in, he was kind and could pour sand into a bottle in grade 4. All they want is the GPA . And that is only used as an indicator that he completed year 4 to 6. it has absolutely no relevance to his acceptance or not. Then they look at his onet score, which must have a pass. Then they have their own test. In the end it comes down to 2 pieces of paper with a test score on it. The 6 two inch folders were as useful as chopsticks to catch a fly. The children that did not have those scores all went to private schools with no tests. Those schools are around 300000 per year. Then at university the same process happens. So they then have to go to private uni that also cost hundreds of thousands. 

Most of the assessments are based on group work. There are 25 children and 1 teacher. So the teacher takes most clever kids and groups them with low achievers. The low achievers benefit from this but the high achievers don't improve at all. My son was sat next to every ADD ,autistic slow learner in the school and was expected to "buddy" them and teach them. Apparently he will learn by teaching. The low levels get all manner of assistance, but ask the mothers of gifted children. We have to spend thousands of dollars outside just so our kids can work at level. More often than not they are used as support children /teachers. My son is in a high achievers test based system now. Everyone can work at the level for their grade. Assessment based is great from k1 to about grade 1 or 2. After that they must prepare for the real world. 

Smart, well balanced, emotionally mature teachers who are relaxed and happy to be teachers can pretty much make any pedagogy work.

 

 

32 minutes ago, greenchair said:

I'm just a mother of a gifted child that has just reached high school. So I  talk of his academic experiences. He went to project based learning school. I have 2 inch folders of his assessments for 6 years. In the end they go in the bin and are totally irrelevant to his academic life. When making the move to high school, they are just not interested in, he was kind and could pour sand into a bottle in grade 4. All they want is the GPA . And that is only used as an indicator that he completed year 4 to 6. it has absolutely no relevance to his acceptance or not. Then they look at his onet score, which must have a pass. Then they have their own test. In the end it comes down to 2 pieces of paper with a test score on it. The 6 two inch folders were as useful as chopsticks to catch a fly. The children that did not have those scores all went to private schools with no tests. Those schools are around 300000 per year. Then at university the same process happens. So they then have to go to private uni that also cost hundreds of thousands. 

Most of the assessments are based on group work. There are 25 children and 1 teacher. So the teacher takes most clever kids and groups them with low achievers. The low achievers benefit from this but the high achievers don't improve at all. My son was sat next to every ADD ,autistic slow learner in the school and was expected to "buddy" them and teach them. Apparently he will learn by teaching. The low levels get all manner of assistance, but ask the mothers of gifted children. We have to spend thousands of dollars outside just so our kids can work at level. More often than not they are used as support children /teachers. My son is in a high achievers test based system now. Everyone can work at the level for their grade. Assessment based is great from k1 to about grade 1 or 2. After that they must prepare for the real world. 

I am a primary age teacher.

 

I work in school with high academic standards.

 

We do not use tests to assess progress or areas for development.

 

We use assessments.

 

They are based on individual performance, marked on strict success criteria rubrics.

 

They are the best method for assessing progress for all abilities and highlighting next steps.

 

Tests do not do this.

Edited May 31, 20188 yr by Bluespunk

1 hour ago, Lunchbob said:

Smart, well balanced, emotionally mature teachers who are relaxed and happy to be teachers can pretty much make any pedagogy work.

That balance can quickly be thrown off by having students from dysfunctional families with zero interest in education.

Yes, too many tests and the kids can't fail, so what's the point? It's just a waste of time for all involved. 

Why even bother, the education in Thailand is a complete joke.

 

2 hours ago, Bluespunk said:

I am a primary age teacher.

 

I work in school with high academic standards.

 

We do not use tests to assess progress or areas for development.

 

We use assessments.

 

They are based on individual performance, marked on strict success criteria rubrics.

 

They are the best method for assessing progress for all abilities and highlighting next steps.

 

Tests do not do this.

A lot of teachers and schools  don't want the children academically tested. They don't want parents to know that their grade A child can barely read or divide a sum. 

All the people pushing for no tests are parents of low academic achievers and private schools with low academic achievers. 

They needed to find a way for those naughty little brats to pass without actually testing. Because those schools are full of rich children and only interested in money making. Those schools cost between 400000 to 700000 per year. Parents will not pay that kind of money for an F.

Hence Teacher assessment was born. 

It's a joke. 

36 minutes ago, greenchair said:

A lot of teachers and schools  don't want the children academically tested. They don't want parents to know that their grade A child can barely read or divide a sum. 

All the people pushing for no tests are parents of low academic achievers and private schools with low academic achievers. 

They needed to find a way for those naughty little brats to pass without actually testing. Because those schools are full of rich children and only interested in money making. Those schools cost between 400000 to 700000 per year. Parents will not pay that kind of money for an F.

Hence Teacher assessment was born. 

It's a joke. 

We have no fear of examinations.

 

However for progress and identifying needs they are not effective or worthwhile.

 

That requires ongoing assessment.

 

This helps all children of all abilities.

 

Ongoing assessment emerged from a professional responsibility to help all children make progress.

32 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

We have no fear of examinations.

 

However for progress and identifying needs they are not effective or worthwhile.

 

That requires ongoing assessment.

 

This helps all children of all abilities.

 

Ongoing assessment emerged from a professional responsibility to help all children make progress.

No it didn't. 

It emerged about 15 years ago. About the time all the intellectually handicapped schools were closed and the children were integrated. The special schools were all teacher assessment because the children mostly learned lifeskills that were suited to their individual needs. 

The parents fought hard for integration because it is thought that their children would develop better socially and academically with normal children. And they do. 

The schools being schools could not pass those kids to the next level because of course the children could not pass. Teacher assessment was born so that all the children could pass based on their ability of whatever it may be and be nicely shunted up the levels.

Nowadays, almost every class has 2 to 3 intellectually disabled children. The schools get paid extra to take them. More often than not the high achievers are assigned to care for them because they are able to pass to next level and no one sees the need for them to do more. The middle children come out best. All the rest suffer. 

It's like the Muslims dont eat pork so no pork is sold at school. 

The intellectually handicapped can't pass tests so nobody should have them. 

Then everyone can be the same. 

 

 

 

5 minutes ago, greenchair said:

No it didn't. 

It emerged about 15 years ago. About the time all the intellectually handicapped schools were closed and the children were integrated. The special schools were all teacher assessment because the children mostly learned lifeskills that were suited to their individual needs. 

The parents fought hard for integration because it is thought that their children would develop better socially and academically with normal children. And they do. 

The schools being schools could not pass those kids to the next level because of course the children could not pass. Teacher assessment was born so that all the children could pass based on their ability of whatever it may be and be nicely shunted up the levels.

Nowadays, almost every class has 2 to 3 intellectually disabled children. The schools get paid extra to take them. More often than not the high achievers are assigned to care for them because they are able to pass to next level and no one sees the need for them to do more. The middle children come out best. All the rest suffer. 

It's like the Muslims dont eat pork so no pork is sold at school. 

The intellectually handicapped can't pass tests so nobody should have them. 

Then everyone can be the same. 

 

 

 

Nope, wrong again.

 

Assessment is about assessing progress and addressing areas of concern.

 

Not 'shunting' children.

 

Nice try at deflection with your "Muslims do this and that" BS, but not going to work.

5 hours ago, greenchair said:

Management positions only require the skill of managing which staff to put in which position and general coordination activities. The GPA requirement for uni degree in management fields is only 2.5 to 2.75.

Where as a degree in engineering or architecture requires a GPA of 3.00 to 3.5 .

Management positions don't require the technicalitis of physics, chemistry or even skill in the jobs that they are managing. A civil engineer and a manager are like chalk and cheese. 

Depends on what's being managed. 

 

The top managers of public companies (CEOs) usually have experience in the areas they are managing and supplement that experience with an MBA (no decent school will accept students with GPAs from 2.5 to 2.75 - they also put equal weight on the GMAT (a test)).  It is rare to have an outsider with just a BBA or MBA with no prior work experience in a company's field of work to become a manager.

 

At the other end of the spectrum would be the "office manager" so common in Thai offices (or perhaps a manager of a restaurant or retail shop), in which case I'd likely agree with your assessment.

5 hours ago, greenchair said:

I'm just a mother of a gifted child that has just reached high school. So I  talk of his academic experiences. He went to project based learning school. I have 2 inch folders of his assessments for 6 years. In the end they go in the bin and are totally irrelevant to his academic life. When making the move to high school, they are just not interested in, he was kind and could pour sand into a bottle in grade 4. All they want is the GPA . And that is only used as an indicator that he completed year 4 to 6. it has absolutely no relevance to his acceptance or not. Then they look at his onet score, which must have a pass. Then they have their own test. In the end it comes down to 2 pieces of paper with a test score on it. The 6 two inch folders were as useful as chopsticks to catch a fly. The children that did not have those scores all went to private schools with no tests. Those schools are around 300000 per year. Then at university the same process happens. So they then have to go to private uni that also cost hundreds of thousands. 

Most of the assessments are based on group work. There are 25 children and 1 teacher. So the teacher takes most clever kids and groups them with low achievers. The low achievers benefit from this but the high achievers don't improve at all. My son was sat next to every ADD ,autistic slow learner in the school and was expected to "buddy" them and teach them. Apparently he will learn by teaching. The low levels get all manner of assistance, but ask the mothers of gifted children. We have to spend thousands of dollars outside just so our kids can work at level. More often than not they are used as support children /teachers. My son is in a high achievers test based system now. Everyone can work at the level for their grade. Assessment based is great from k1 to about grade 1 or 2. After that they must prepare for the real world. 

Was your gifted child educated in Thailand at a public school?  You make reference to tuition figures, which I assume are in Baht (300,000?), and seem to suggest that private schools (possibly including international schools) are full of below average students from rich families.  I send my son to a private school that is full of students from rich families, and I see just the opposite.  Of course you get your spoiled kids who seem to take life for granted, but they are more the exception than the rule.  I could not imagine sending my son to a Thai public school if I had the choice.

3 hours ago, OldSiamHand said:

Depends on what's being managed. 

 

The top managers of public companies (CEOs) usually have experience in the areas they are managing and supplement that experience with an MBA (no decent school will accept students with GPAs from 2.5 to 2.75 - they also put equal weight on the GMAT (a test)).  It is rare to have an outsider with just a BBA or MBA with no prior work experience in a company's field of work to become a manager.

 

At the other end of the spectrum would be the "office manager" so common in Thai offices (or perhaps a manager of a restaurant or retail shop), in which case I'd likely agree with your assessment.

You are absolutely correct. But we're talking thailand here. And I never said a good thai university. But anyway assessment based students usually can't pass the tests that you are talking about. Which backs up my original point that they need early testing practice in order to pass the big tests. 

4 tests a year is not too much.